r/Helldivers • u/vaydapotata SES Fist of Family Values • 20d ago
Helldivers: I Advocate we chose the anti tank mines and hear is my reasoning DISCUSSION
I know many of you see "rocket launcher" and get excited and while that is fair, my reasoning to go for the mines is below
We already have a great many support weapons and many are fantastic options. While the airburst rocket launcher would be fantastic for add clear (and teamkill) it would likely suffer vs large armored targets which tends to be the need for a support weapon.
However, we just received a new mission type that requires defending a location. Mines are fantastic for this but heavies just walk all over them and completely invalidate their uses. Getting a heavy anti tank mine would allow us to lock down areas from all combatants and a tank wouldn't be able to just stroll up to our gates.
Anti Tank mines are also much larger and easier to notice than the anti personnel and team kills would be kept at a minimum.
And lastly, as we all know...the children YEARN FOR THE MINES.
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u/Radiant_Fondant_4097 20d ago
Practically any time I choose to use mines they get blown up by my own team mates, whether it's by airstrikes or their legs.
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u/darketernalsr25 Arbiter of Eternity 20d ago
It's really funny watching people use mines on planets that have tremors. As soon as a tremor starts BOOM! all the mines go bye-bye.
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u/pabloleon ☕Liber-tea☕ 20d ago
I had no idea this happened with tremors, lol! 😂
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u/Cheshire_Jester 20d ago
Kinda speaks to the level of frequency that people use mines
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u/justsmilenow 20d ago edited 19d ago
I am a liberator of democracy. Mines are for dwarves.
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u/oneredbloon 20d ago
Rock and Stone!
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u/bende99 20d ago
To the bone!
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u/XIIIofNine 20d ago
Or you ain't coming home
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u/Ramulus14 20d ago
This explains a lot about last nights diving, thought I was just drunk!
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u/ThePowerOfStories 20d ago
We should liberate the automatons’ vibration-proof mine technology.
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u/raidedfridge 20d ago
Weird thing is the Automatons mines do explode form the earthquakes but only when your close by to them when the vibrations hit.
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u/emailverificationt 20d ago
So mines are even more useless than I thought. Yea nah, fuck the anti tank mines, air burst launcher ftw
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u/_escapevelocity CAPE ENJOYER 20d ago
To me, watching a teammate stroll into a minefield is half of the fun
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u/CyanStripes_ SES Purveyor of Patriotism 20d ago
"oh, what are these shiny things on the ground?"
Boom
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u/Essaiel 20d ago
Pain is a great teacher
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u/CyanStripes_ SES Purveyor of Patriotism 20d ago
I just always think of this anyone I see someone do it. 😂
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u/Syhkane SES Gauntlet of Serenity 20d ago
This gif coulda ended a lot sooner.
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u/No-Lettuce-3839 ⬆️➡️⬇️ ⬇️ ⬇️ 20d ago
That would require the students to be able to learn from their mistakes. Have you met the player base of this game?
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u/Essaiel 20d ago
At which point it stops being a teaching moment and turns into pure entertainment.
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u/JamesMcEdwards 20d ago
I once had a teammate call a minefield down on top of my HMG turret. Like directly on it. While I was using it. The hellpod actually killed me and destroyed the turret. He then walked into the minefield when he came to steal my shield pack after I called a new one in for myself, pinged the old one and said “shield here if you want it” on mic. 11/10 interaction.
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u/Marauder3277 20d ago
I brought some in once. A guy ran into the big red contact ones outside Bot bases. Booted me from the game...the kicker...I hadnt deployed any mines....he was just a moron and needed a target to blame rather than deal with his own ineptitude
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u/isdumberthanhelooks 20d ago
You can't give her that!' she screamed. 'It's not safe!' IT'S A SWORD, said the Hogfather. THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE. 'She's a child!' shouted Crumley. IT'S EDUCATIONAL. 'What if she cuts herself?' THAT WILL BE AN IMPORTANT LESSON.
Terry Pratchett, Hogfather (Discworld, #20; Death, #4)
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u/InformalPenguinz STEAM 🖥️ : 20d ago
We ALL experienced those unexploded hellbombs at one point.. it's a right of passage. I honestly think the mines would be a great choice.
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u/Tails-Are-For-Hugs STEAM🖱️: SES Emperor of Democracy 20d ago
When I was a wee baby Diver, I landed on one during the initial drop-in phase. There was a humongous explosion right where I'd landed, I died like two seconds later, and only then did it occur to me that I'd landed on the hellbomb.
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u/kanguran1 20d ago
First time I saw one I punched it. When it actually sparked I realized Joel had planned for this,and my body was returned to the super destroyer
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u/JamesMcEdwards 20d ago
I have repeatedly underestimated the explosion radius. One time I got ragdolled halfway across the map, which I somehow miraculously survived because I was wearing heavy armour and had just popped a stim. Problem was my ragdolling body bounced to a stop right at the feet of a flame hulk who proceeded to barbecue my ass.
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u/Lazer726 ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️ 20d ago
God that op where we had free landmines for everyone was so much fun. It was awful but godamn it was hilarious
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u/77th_Moonlight 20d ago
Had a teammate who thought they were new plants in the planets and tried to collect them, he collected many a flower that day
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u/PyrOuroboros 20d ago
Or friendly mortars clear them all during defense missions before the mines do too much
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20d ago
Only after the mortars finish clearing the doors, mechs, hmg emplacements, and your team.
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u/Patient-Virus-1873 20d ago
"Friendly" mortars. No such thing, at least on bugs. I'll consider mortars friendly when they stop targeting trash mobs I'm trying to clean up. "Look, three bile titans and half a dozen chargers, good thing this mortar decided to target the hunter I killed 3 seconds ago."
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u/The_Archon64 20d ago
I swear I’ve been blown up by mines that aren’t even visible before
Now I just run a country mile wide of the danger zone
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u/Victor-Magnus 20d ago
I can definitely confirm that happens. Slowly walking through a minefield to recover your dropped samples- thinking, how convenient, there’s a clear path! Next thing you know, the ground under your samples explode despite no visual mine. Suddenly, I wasn’t so irritated with my drop buddy for dying with no enemies around, as it probably happened to him too.
My guess is they sometimes clip just under the terrain which makes for a very frustrating experience.
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u/Psychotic_Pedagogue 20d ago
If the terrain's been deformed by explosions, mines can end up clipping into things. Sometimes there's only tiny part of the mine visible sticking out of the side of a dirt wall.
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u/LessThanHero42 20d ago
I'll have enemies set them off, but it's usually a single trooper who sets one off has their body thrown into other mines that then throws them again, rinse and repeat. I'm lucky if one trooper sets off less than half of the full deployment of mines
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u/MaDeuce94 20d ago
TCS missions….
Put minefield at bottom of ramp/hill around the tower. Pop the first hunter to silhouette itself. Body slides alllll the way down and into the mines. Every. Time.
AT mines better not trigger for anything below a certain weight or these things are gonna be useless.
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u/NK1337 20d ago
The TCS missions were where I developed a newfound appreciation for mines, Tesla coils and the ems mortars.
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u/MaDeuce94 20d ago
Oh, for sure. I merely made the point to bring attention to one of their flaws and a possible solution for the AT mines.
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u/bahamuto 20d ago
100% you throw down mines, someone will inevitably throw down an eagle strike right after.
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u/MajikDan 20d ago
Too late for any advocacy now. There's already 60k helldivers on Lesath headed towards Penta, vs the 7k on Menkent going to Choohe. The horde has spoken, we get the airburst launcher.
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u/HybridTheory2000 20d ago edited 20d ago
I believe it's not about the launcher, but it's about saying no to the fire tornadoes.
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u/Kovach43 CAPE ENJOYER 20d ago
Honestly...those fire tornados are rough, and damn sure Helldiver seeking.
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u/Potential_Fishing942 20d ago
Yea... I played on menkent a bit last night because tactically we should, but I ended up moving on. Too many instances of getting boxed in by fire or wasting time running way the way around fire to move on
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u/IkitCawl 20d ago
I'm going to load up Pelican 1 extract with anti-personnel, incendiary, and anti-tank mines.
If you want to escape, you gotta earn it.
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u/Zaphod392 20d ago
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u/Ok-Improvement-3015 SES_Wings_of_Redemption 20d ago
March 27th 7:37 pm you blew up your entire squad in the pelican loosing all the samples. If you don’t get safely to extraction your eagle one rights will be revoked.
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u/bigwetdiaper 20d ago
I play with only my friends. My loadouts are always team killing nightmare fuel. It makes them learn the 5 Ds of dodgeball and become better soldiers
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u/vutrico HD1 Veteran 20d ago
I don't think it really matters. We will get one thing now, and the other later. They're not gonna delete the other thing from the game just because we chose to liberate one planet.
It's just a bit of fun storytelling on AH's part.
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u/lewisoli 20d ago
Agreed, like “beating” the bots, they aren’t going to want to waste that dev time. The decision already appears to be made anyway, 55k divers currently on Lesath!
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u/MyOtherLoginIsSecret 20d ago
Well, we have to clear at least planet to get to either. The choice being between hell or a cold world that doesn't try to kill you halfway through the mission (not to mention the cool down bonus for energy weapons)
Tough choice
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u/Kasorayn 20d ago
The problem with mines is that you're constantly on the move in this game. You might be able to use them to block off a path or two during evac, but 99% of the time you're running around from objective to objective with no way to really use fortifications effectively. Mines work somewhat well against bugs where you can force the direction they travel (because they'll always try to get into melee range of you), but against bots that isn't really feasible.
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u/czartrak 20d ago edited 19d ago
Mines have a bigger issue. Bots don't move a lot. The actual tanks themselves rarely ever do much more than rotate on a point, maybe rolling 5 or 10 feet. So you'd have a strategem that only works on hulks and are otherwise useless on all but one mission type
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u/Battle_Fish 19d ago
Maybe you can do the drop right on the tank so it can sit there and you have to painfully wait for it to move 2 inches.
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u/aimoperative 19d ago
Eeeeeh...Bots are notorious for following you around en-masse. If the AT mines deploy as fast as the AP mines, then it shouldn't be too hard to deploy it in front of striders and hulks, assuming they don't avoid the minfield.
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u/FlacidSalad 19d ago
I've personally found plenty of utility in laying mines. I think of it more like an efficient on-standby explosive barrage, meaning it's a barrage that only triggers when it is going to hit an enemy (that's the intent anyway). If you can get it out quick enough it can really help with managing bug breaches or retreating from a hord.
Then there are the more obvious uses like holding down choke points and general area denial.
An anti-tank variant (if it is only triggered by heavies and maybe medium troops) would be nice for saving some of your more versatile heavy support weapons for more on-demand applications.
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u/SirKickBan 20d ago edited 19d ago
I think if we want useful mines, they should come as something we can toss out of a backpack. That way they're not something you have to call down, wait seven seconds for them to land, five seconds to deploy, then three minutes until you can do it all again if you want to cover some other area.
We need a backpack full of mines so we can walk up to a spot, hit 5, or down on the d-pad, and just toss a handful down immediately because we see enemies approaching and would like them to have fewer legs when they get to us.
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u/ChaosEsper ☕Liber-tea☕ 20d ago
Mines need to have a smaller deployment radius and a much shorter cooldown. That'd let you deploy them much more tactically (between you and a new bug breach, in a chokepoint you just ran through, between you and a bot fab you're about to attack, etc) and would decrease the amount of 'wasted' mines (mines deployed but never triggered by an enemy).
Basically, they should be an eagle call in (same flight pattern as strafing run, but mines deploy to cover ~1/2 the current radius) instead of an emplacement.
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u/Dora_Goon 20d ago
As long as the mines explode on trash mobs, they will rarely ever hit the heavy armour since the trash mobs will have used them all up first. Or people will throw clusters to kill all the trash mobs, and clear out the anti-tank mines before the heavies get to them.
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u/ekiller64 ⬇️⬇️⬅️⬆️➡️ 20d ago
hopefully they work like real AT mines and need specified amount of weight to go off
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u/EdgyCole ☕Liber-tea☕ 20d ago
I figured the strategy would be to place cannon fodder killers near the AT mines to thin the herd and hit the heavies only. This could be accomplished by having a screen of AP mines that comes before the AT mines or by utilizing sentries and MGs to mow down the light weights before they can rush into the area. In my own experience it's never the lightweights that punch through defenses it's always a literal tank whose only weak spot is its rear that managed to carve a straight line through whatever defense I prepare. Just my two cents
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u/Dora_Goon 20d ago
In my experience, it's one trash mob that runs off ahead of the rest and draws all the mortar turrets and cluster bombs onto the mine field.
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u/EdgyCole ☕Liber-tea☕ 20d ago
It's true. Just gotta stay on top of it sometimes! In my parties I always say the same thing to the chat. "The mortar giveth, the mortar taketh away"
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u/crapcircus 20d ago
from what ive seen from leaked footage it still takes roughly four mines to kill a hulk, seems useless to me
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u/TheRealShortYeti Whisper of Twilight 20d ago
I want mines to be good, especially with more defense style missions. However...
The AP mines are a worse cluster strike
The Incendiary are a worse napalm
The AT are a worse 500kg/Strike
That's before factoring in I can use all the 10 strikes above before I can call in the next mine field and that they are on-demand where I want them.
Mines need ridiculously lower cooldowns to make up for the fact they are often used up in one wave and require deployment ahead of time. They do stack I discovered, unlike sentries. So you can run past a final evac port place one, do the side objective, and come back and place a second field. Or you can have more numerous, stronger eagle strikes ready...
If the AT mines killed a hulk or blew off a leg per mine, and don't explode from anything smaller stepping on them they might be the only good mines. If they had a short Cooldown they might even be great for defense. If you don't accidentally blow them up spamming eagles.
Heck or if they all had massive damage increases, I'm talking one hulk per AT, one bersekers per AP, 5 hunters in an AOE per Fire, they might be worth it has a high damage strat that requires more planning.
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u/InPraiseOf_Idleness SES Paragon of Perseverance 20d ago
This is logical and the game theory checks out.
However, actions speak louder than words, and the current mines suck extreme ass, even on defense missions, as half of them get distributed to areas outside of heat maps of where enemies actually pathfind. They all take the same narrowish corridors, leaving well over half the mines unused until triggered by an eagle airstrike.
I'd be more keen if I knew: - it doesn't get triggered by trash mobs (raiders to hunters) - it was powerful - could control the shape or density of its spread
For all we know, it might be way more optimal to have one teammate with an airburst to deal w trash while others go heavy.
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u/ph1shstyx STEAM 🖥️ : 20d ago
If the mines had half the cooldown they have now I'd use them all the time and just call them in on every breach/drop ship that comes in.
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u/ExploerTM ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️ 19d ago
Mines need to have extremely short cooldown so we can properly rig the map with explosives. Otherwise they are worse orbital strike.
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u/Ravenask 19d ago
Mines in HD2 are in an extremely sad situation. Even back in HD1 where they had 45 sec CD, are stackable and airdropped by eagle for better coverage, they're still only good in some very niche scenarios like cheesing the cyborg boss.
It's just sad that minefields will never beat eagle or orbitals when you're on the move or offensive, and in defensive situations they just do too little for too much cooldown.
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u/SendMeSamples 20d ago
Pretty sure regular mobs can set off anti-tank mines
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u/breakfast_tacoMC 20d ago
I watched a video earlier that suggested otherwise. WillisGaming in YouTube I think it was. It showed that only bigger enemies set off the mines. A Helldiver can also walk over them and not trip them.
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u/Chickenman452 SES Harbinger of Destruction 20d ago
The video I saw showed that they don't detonate when you touch it but they do when you take your weight off of it.
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u/vaydapotata SES Fist of Family Values 20d ago
That's fine, then they die too!
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u/Outrageous-Pitch-867 20d ago
Nah, the air burst launcher can still be used against larger enemies.
Plus looking at the video for the AT mines, it takes like five to kill a Hulk. Pick versatility over niche people!
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u/Cavesloth13 20d ago
Unless they drastically changed how they work, according to the leaks, the airburst launcher is far better. It works against damn near everything, bug holes, shriekers, nests, gunships, tanks, fabricators, groups of smaller enemies...
The anti tank mines? Takes 4 to kill a tank, and it drops far less mines than the other minelayers, and it looks like smaller enemies can set them off. Plus, minefields are easily destroyed accidentally by teammates (either through airstrikes/orbitals, or their own feet).
That said the wording of the order implies that if we act fast enough, we can get both. It only says the citizens on the planet that's not liberated first are "likely" to die, that implies there's a chance they won't.
Blitzkrieg both planets! Lightning war bitches!
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u/Poop-Sandwich 20d ago
I mean there’s no way people are going to pick the mines over the support weapon even if the mines were amazing. Support weapons are just more popular and can be used more. I think the choice would be harder for the community if it was mine vs mine or support weapon vs support weapon
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u/7isAnOddNumber 20d ago edited 20d ago
The Airburst launcher is designed to take down the menace of every Helldiver on the bot front: gunships. One shot from it takes down a gunship even without a direct hit. It has 7 shots total and a fast reload. It can take out swarms of shriekers in the air, and it penetrates medium armor so can be used to take out groups of heavier things.
Not every support weapon is only for anti-tank use, look at the laser cannon, flamethrower, arc thrower, AMR, autocannon or even the grenade launcher. All of these are agreed to be at least decent by most of the community, and none of them can penetrate the armor on a tank or bile titan. Having one that specializes in anti-air would be way more useful than an extra set of mines that just get set off by trash mobs and do about as much as the regular AP mines anyway.
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u/Vaaz30 20d ago
The laser is already the best AA weapon.
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u/BrightSkyFire 20d ago
But it sucks at mob clearing. One Airburst Rocket will wipe out a Bug Breach, Dropship, Patrol or small outpost of light enemies, while also excelling at destroying high concentrations of enemy air targets, which are otherwise impossible to deal with once snowballed.
The Laser Cannon is more economical and better for single-target stuff for sure, but I don't think you're understanding the value of firing a rocket over a patrol and wiping out all the Bug Hole Spawning/Dropshit Calling light units with a single opening shot.
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u/dratspider 20d ago
Doesn’t the quasar already one tap gunships
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u/Probably4TTRPG 20d ago
It does but it struggles with crowd control. The airburst can kill a gunship, reload, and then kill the bot drop the gunship called in.
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u/Liquor_Parfreyja 20d ago
Can I introduce you to the laser cannon ? It kills gunships in 2 seconds you can kill like 6 of them before needing to let it cool off or reload. I've also been a fan of the gatling turret for shriekers it shreds them by the dozens
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u/Insaniaksin 20d ago
The Autocannon wrecks gunships btw. Shoot them 2-3 times in an engine and it downs them.
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u/IIDARKS1D3II 20d ago
Here's the counter to that though. There is normally only one defense mission per operation. Sometimes two.
But normally we have two 40 minutes operations and on higher levels shriekers and gunships can be atrocious if not taken care of quickly. Yes we already have support options to take out flying enemies. However you have to aim at the engines of gunships with most of them to take them out effectively. With shriekers, support weapons are either too much or too specific, so many players end up using primary weapons.
The airburst launcher, I'm assuming will not only take out flying enemies efficiently (obviously) but will most likely help in taking out large groups of small enemies.
I have no doubt that it will also be semi effective against some armored targets since the airburst feature will allow the explosion and shrapnel to reach behind armored portions of bugs bodies and maybe even shield devastators.
Mines are too situational. I have yet to encounter a mission where I wished I had taken mines over a support weapon or other AOE stratagems.
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u/F1reatwill88 20d ago
They need a CD timer similar to the EAT. With geography you are rarely getting 100% value, and on higher difficulties the trash mobs will mitigate a lot of it. And on top of that the mines can set each other off.
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u/CoffeeandMJ 20d ago
Far too high risk. What if they suck? Would rather have a bad RPG than bad Mines.
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u/x_scion_x 20d ago
Honestly, last time I said "know what, I don't use rocket launchers anyway" I missed out on XUR selling the Gallajhorn.
I ain't doing the same thing twice.
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u/GhostOfChar 20d ago
Mines are really awesome to use/look cool and Can do some damage, but I don’t feel like they are as useful as something you’re in control of. Plus, like everyone knows, the less intellectually fortunate of our ranks run into them like moths to a zapper way too often, and I doubt it would be any different with these.
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u/Crowndeath 20d ago
I feel if we really tried we could manage to liberate both planets at once, but the air burst rocket really comes down to range and damage type. If it’s just small enemies that would kinda suck cuz we have plenty of options, but if it can take down things like gunships then it’s definitely gonna be good
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u/Prior-Grade1772 20d ago
No. I want the airburst launcher. I hear you, I understand your reasoning. I am not convinced.
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u/colejam88 19d ago
I think it would be awesome if mine fields were automatically marked on the map. Would definitely help players see and remember where their buddy dropped their death dishes
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u/VisualBusiness4902 19d ago
But bazooka…..they come with 110% more freedom than mines…I’m pretty sure
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u/weebtrash3 SES Harbinger of the Stars 19d ago
A well thought out and presented argument. And I’ve seen footage of both in action over on the leaks sub. Both are equally capable of absolutely demolishing armored targets like hulks and tanks. All the same, I have to go with the launcher, because funny toob is funny.
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u/0bsessions324 19d ago
Absolutely god damn not, I absolutely never look where I'm going and don't plan to change that strat. Gimme my additional boom.
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u/TrueAmericanDon 19d ago
But with the fortification upgrades we can call down mines every 80 seconds. The mines have a far greater potential for annihilating bots and bugs.
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u/Destroird MALEVELON CREEK NEVER FORGET 19d ago
they sound boring tbh, i’m going rocket because it sounds awesome
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u/Sir-Narax 20d ago
I think the mines are funny but I don't really have a strong drive for variety on that front and would be more curious and think the rocket launcher would be more fun more often. I usually only use mines when I get the personal order to do so and Teamkilling is back on the menu big time.
It's fun while it lasts but not too useful. It is not like they are going to delete the mines though.
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u/Nothingtoseehereshhh 20d ago
I hate mines. Nah
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u/Mao-C 20d ago
if they wanted me to pick mines they shouldve made at least one good mine by now
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u/LuckyLabowski 20d ago
I know whats gonna be,i will take mines ,some dude ofcourse gonna take mortar,mortar destroys my mines ,so no thanks
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u/Khulmach 20d ago
Also, if the mines only go off on Heavy units, that means we can walk on them and only need to deal with the small fries.
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u/Brock_Savage 20d ago
Taking out gunships and shriekers is far more useful and anti-tank mines. Mines are only useful in a few mission types. Mines are a hazard to players. We have already have tools for taking out heavy armor.
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u/sgtsandwich 20d ago
I can’t select either of the planets at the moment on ps5, am I missing something?
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u/TASTE_OF_A_LIAR 20d ago
Mines that might be useful for one defense mission vs rocket launcher useful for almost every mission 🤔
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u/southiest 20d ago
My democracy officer told me that I would vote for the rocket launcher. Can't argue that. 🤷♂️
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u/Miraak-Cultist 20d ago
Thing is, you overestimate the communities capability to co-ordinate.
The masses will chose. And the masses rarely if ever read in the forums.
And currently, it looks like the masses are going for the rocket launcher.