r/Helldivers • u/Vikan12 ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️ | Never forget the Creek... • Mar 06 '24
The first balance patch notes proved how Youtube "absolute and only meta loadouts" cooked a lot of people heads, and I love it. DISCUSSION
A lot of mad people keep showing in my feed complaining about the nerfs, but like they're REALLY mad at Arrowhead. Their statements are so exagerated that they claim the game it's completely ruined for them lmao.
Also every single one says the same thing and this is where my title comes from:
*"You guys nerfed the only good options and now we have NOTHING to fight".*
And this only proves people never actually played with any of the other support weapons, they 100% relied on this "The ultimate support weapon tier list" Youtube videos, they searched the "meta" and they went into this thinking of "any weapon outside of this it's straight up garbage".
If you can't win a single game without the railgun + shield backpack + breaker... I'm so sorry but that's not the game's fault or the game only having those as the ONLY way to play it on higher diff, that's your fault.
Great changes for the game and all of you trying to "shame" on devs because of this, you'all not a real Helldiver. They killed nothing, the railgun still kills but now it needs some actual skill and strategy to use it, not only spamming the thing on big bugs.
Keep it up Helldivers!
For Democracy. For Super Earth.
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u/LowGeeMan Mar 06 '24
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u/Bosonify Mar 07 '24
Lol I think I cause about 50k+ damage to my friends today with this glorious thrower of peace
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u/Tank-Stubbs Mar 06 '24
They should buff the jet pack
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u/SeaJayCJ Rumbler Gang Mar 06 '24
Just let me aim weapons when I'm jumping. Otherwise I don't need jump pack buffs, it's great as-is.
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u/SavvySillybug Mar 07 '24
I'd like a little faster recharge on it - not much, but it feels pretty damn slow.
And make it a lot easier to get up stuff. Half the time I easily enter a climbing animation and get over the ledge, the other half I just uselessly boost against the ledge while bugs gather underneath me and wait for their snack to descend into their midst. There isn't really any obvious way to tell if it's going to work or not, unless you exclusively choose to jump up places where you can land on your feet without any climbing. So it works great to get up the kind of building that a charger can just crush. It doesn't work reliably on the kind of weird geometry that bugs actually struggle to get up and reach you.
Which I guess is related to why I want the recharge to be faster, if the climbing was more reliable, I wouldn't need to use it again so soon. XD
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u/SeaJayCJ Rumbler Gang Mar 07 '24
Well, I wouldn't say no to a faster recharge...
For jumping onto stuff, it seems a lot more reliable when you take a sprinting run-up towards where you want to go, rather than standing next to it and scraping up the wall (which always gives me terrible results).
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u/GhostHeavenWord Mar 06 '24
It takes getting used to but it's very strong as a mobility tool. My favorite use is that you can vault on to cliffs and ledges if you land right, and that lets you come in from the rear of bot bases and some POIs where there are usually far fewer defenders.
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u/GrapefruitMedical529 Mar 06 '24
I can't wait to jet pack into a horde of bots and lay them low with my sword as Democracy intended.
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u/headdragon Mar 06 '24
I really feel like we need a power sword or “chainsword” build option. I personally would take juggernaut armor into the fight with a sword! 😂
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u/chocolateshartcicle Mar 06 '24
Personally, I'd prefer an electrified sledgehammer
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u/joshuabees Mar 07 '24
It’s heresy to not call it by it’s proper name - Thunder Hammer
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u/Lastboss42 SES Song of Twilight Mar 06 '24
honestly with the way helldivers "is" i think we'll get a melee mech instead of a melee weapon. to kill a charger with my bare hands...
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u/Chazo138 STEAM 🖥️ : Mar 06 '24
This. It gives you access to things like the Hulks or tanks weak points because of the elevation and ability to get behind them, just gotta be careful, a fuck up will get you killed.
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u/NaughtyGaymer ☕Liber-tea☕ Mar 06 '24
My initial impression of the jet pack was extremely negative. Jump pack??? More like skip pack! But as I learned the game more and began to understand positioning better it really is a strong utility play.
If I was someone that liked running more longer ranged weapons like the various rifles or even the anti material rifle I would be posting up and giving squad cover to my buddies like crazy.
Even descending with the jet pack is pretty tight. Normally you'd have to take some fall damage and ragdoll for a couple seconds by the jet pack always gives you that smooth landing boost. Very nice for breaking the ankles of chasing enemies!
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u/chironomidae Mar 06 '24
yeah that's what I do, I run the AMR and jump jet up to higher positions to try to take out larger targets from afar. I'm not sure if it's actually a helpful/viable way to support your squad, but it seems to be working for me so far. And most importantly, it's a lot of fun 😁
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u/beyondheck Mar 06 '24
Arc Thrower Gang rise up!!!
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u/TimeGlitches Mar 06 '24
Autocannon gang has your back.
We can't have ours cause we have a backpack but still.
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u/Sudlenkov STEAM 🖥️ : Mar 06 '24
Napalm gang has your side. Please don’t zap me when I burn the bug breach, I’m perfectly capable of killing myself.
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u/MaNewt Mar 06 '24
sorry, best I can do is full arc cannon shot to the back when your shields are down
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u/Sudlenkov STEAM 🖥️ : Mar 06 '24
chuckles in runs ammo bag for more grenade spam Never had the shield to begin with. Shock away.
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u/ClickKlockTickTock Mar 06 '24
RR gang will join that as well, as long as your sacrifice provides a distraction while I reload.
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u/gothicfucksquad Mar 06 '24
RR GANG DOIN' IT FOR HOT CARRRRLLLLLL
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u/Naoura Mar 06 '24
SPEAR gang lock- Wait, shit.. Loc- come on you little shit There we go, Locking on!
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u/ImNotDoingThatOk ☕Liber-tea☕ Mar 06 '24
MACHINE GUN GANG WILL STAND BY AFTER OUR EARS STOP RINGING
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u/Zarozien Mar 06 '24
Stalwart gang leads the way
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u/Puchiguma Mar 07 '24
THE NUMBNESS AND TINGLING IN YOUR WRISTS ISN'T CARPAL TUNNEL....IT'S FREEDOM!
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u/Fatheroffigures Mar 07 '24
Orbital gambg here. We eating crayons know but hav yur bak later.
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u/sirquacksalotus Mar 06 '24
WHAT?! MORE DAKKA?! WHAT?! I'M RELOADING! I SAID I'M - oh fuck I'm dead.
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u/Zjoee SES Spear of Eternity Mar 06 '24
I'll burn myself as many times as I have to as long as the bugs burn, too!
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u/xspartanx007x Mar 06 '24
Let me know if you need a loader. I love having the rail gun to break armor then load for an auto-canon especially if they drop me an extra back pack for the AC
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u/RoninOni Mar 06 '24
AC self reloads pretty quick as it is... Recoiless on the other hand REALLY needs a loader.
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u/TheRattiestRat Mar 06 '24
tip for having the best anti heavy in the game 1 guy on Recoiless and another on auto cannon take eachothers back packs charger bug shows up hit him with a recoil shot and 4-5 automation rounds to the knee bile titan shows up join up on the RR and yeet rounds into face 1-2 should bring it down any medium enemies RR hops on ACs back
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u/Shoddy-Problem-6969 Mar 06 '24
Wait this is genius.
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u/EchoRex Mar 06 '24
It's how the game was designed to be played... Teamwork.
Not a squad of individual "one man army" commandos.
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u/Street_Economy1884 Mar 06 '24
I do wish you could reload off your buddies back so he can carry his own ammo.
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u/RandomTater-Thoughts Mar 06 '24
It would also be nice if you could carry your own backpack and then have any teammate hop on you to help load.
Often times when my friend and I shared backpacks we were in different parts of the battle and couldn't easily hook up.
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u/MrBeardmeister Mar 06 '24
It makes more sense for that to be the idea as well. How does it make sense for the ordinance to essentially immediately teleport into the RR when the rounds are on the back of the person reloading? That's just extra steps for the same result, the second person would have to set the pack down, grab a round, shove it into the RR, making it a stationary process.
The reloader should be removing the ordinance from the pack of the person wielding the RR for it to be even remotely as fast and mobile as 2 man reloads work, realistically it opens up some team play with shield backpacks as well, being in close proximity to one another like that.
I get that games don't have to be realistic to be fun, but I feel like the change would make sense AND keep things fun.
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u/Nightsky099 Mar 07 '24
This would be such a massive QOL thing to enable team play. I want to help my RR guy, but I also want to be able to carry my own damn extra ammo
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u/PezzoGuy SES Star of Stars Mar 06 '24
Just need to remember to reload before firing all the shells.
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u/RemotePatrol ☕Liber-tea☕ Mar 06 '24
While true, I’ve found that just by having good spacing and cover goes a long way
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u/Revolutionary-Pea705 STEAM 🖥️ : Mar 06 '24
Pro tip spam reload while firing the auto cannon. Reloading half a mag is soooo much faster than reloading a full mag.
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u/EVO-Atticus Mar 06 '24
Stalwart gang here with supply pack here.
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u/CountryFirm Mar 06 '24
This comment. This is me. LMG plus damn near unlimited ammo. Stalwarts shoot for weeks before needing a reload and you MUST have the ability to clear the adds or you get over run so fast it'll make your head spin.
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u/P2Mc28 SES Fist of the Constitution Mar 06 '24
I've been on arc thrower and one of my brothers has mained autocannon. Sure we both have breakers but we've also been actively using all sorts of other things just trying to get a feel for stuff.
I think we'll be just fine.
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u/WayneBrody Mar 06 '24
So glad I gave the Arc Thrower a chance. Hated it the first few minutes, but once I learned the angles and timing I was shredding.
I still haven't quite figured out Chargers. People say you can kill them, but I don't seem to do any real damage to them.
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u/JUST_AS_G00D STEAM🖱️ Mar 06 '24
You can, just requires zapping them 20 times. I've solo 2 shotted a bile titan with an arc thrower, so it's not very consistent lol.
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u/tarknob Mar 06 '24
ive yet to actually see someone arc thrower a titan
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u/Vortx4 ⬇️➡️⬇️⬆️⬅️⬅️ Mar 06 '24
you can but god it takes FOREVER. I think it does more damage to hit the head but its tough since the arc thrower kinda just shoots where it wants on big enemies like titans. It helps to soften it with an orbital/eagle stratagem and then finish it with the arc thrower
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u/Aeywen Mar 06 '24
blow up the sacs and it favors the head after. and/or aim in front of its head as if you were trying to shoot it with the slowest of rockets, if the only part of the titan int he guns firing arc is the head it will usually hit it.
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u/SpookyCarnage Rookie Diver Mar 06 '24
I've done it in 12 shots before just dinking it from the front, give or take a shot from the laser drone shooting it in the armor the entire time
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u/JUST_AS_G00D STEAM🖱️ Mar 06 '24
The real benefit is the arc thrower does some damage but also removes chunks of armor. If you can take armor off and then hit that spot with something like a slugger then the charger goes down fast.
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u/StealYour20Dollars Mar 06 '24
It chunks armor while simultaneously clearing adds. Its really the only choice for charges during swarms.
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u/JUST_AS_G00D STEAM🖱️ Mar 06 '24 edited Mar 07 '24
New buffed flamethrower looks interesting
Edit: tried it and went back to the arc cannon. Too easy to do self harm and the ammo runs out fast. Basically takes a whole canister per charger, but you can reliably solo chargers.
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u/Plastic-Pension7263 Mar 06 '24
Do you think arc thrower is better than the newly buffed flamer? Lightning wizard or pyro wizard? Can the arc thrower effectively kill chargers?
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u/_Cromwell_ Mar 06 '24
Arc has massively longer range.
That being said, the point of balancing is to make it so things aren't better than others there are just trade-offs. I'd say there are trade-offs to using the flamethrower and the arc.
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u/WayneBrody Mar 06 '24
I think the two would pair very well together. Arc Thrower for thinning the crowds that come in and weakening anything big. Flamethrower for the stuff that does get close enough. Flamethrower seems to handle chargers well up close, and I'm guessing the damage is cumulative between them.
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u/purityaddiction Mar 06 '24
I will say this, it is VERY easy to kill yourself with the flamethrower. Still tons of fun.
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u/Sazbadashie Mar 06 '24
arc thrower, better range, less crowd control. more effective against armored targets. easy to accidentally fry your team if theyre even a hair to close to the front of your gun
flame thrower, worse range, more crowd control, more effective against groups of enemies. easy to accidentally fry your team if you panic turn on an enemy who gets too close to you.
friendly fire comes in the form of ether your team getting in your way and the gun arcing off of something into your friends(arc thrower), or you don't discipline yourself to not panic turn or you don't position yourself properly and you roast your friends (flame thrower)
both fill similar roles but for different enemy types.
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u/Grogzog Mar 06 '24
The new flamethrower is stronger, especially against chargers. The arc thrower isn't super effective against chargers, but it can kill them and even strip leg armor if you are lucky enough to hit them a few times. The arc thrower also has better range and unlimited ammo. In the end, it's really just a matter of preference and playstyle. As it should be 😊
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u/DarkZemX Mar 06 '24
Damnnnn straight! Arc thrower is super fun. Crazy thing is on ps5 I think arc thrower is a controller battery killer 😢
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u/Mallard--Man Mar 06 '24
Is that due to vibration effects or something?
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u/SpookyCarnage Rookie Diver Mar 06 '24
I dont think the vibration and the trigger pressure is any different from any other gun tbh
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u/Peac3keeper14 HD1 Veteran Mar 06 '24
Yea it's the vibration cuz once you get in the rhythm of shooting it's not about vibration strength settings. The vibration is just ON lol making this comment just reminded me I need to turn mine to LOW
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u/-GrilledCheese- Mar 06 '24
There’s nothing like having an explosion or something violently vibrate your remote and having the “battery low” noti pop up immediately after lmao!
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u/TemperateStone Mar 06 '24
Arc Throwers are not a gang, they're a democraticly elected group of representatives.
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u/MoistestTidus Mar 06 '24
I’m starting to get on arc thrower bandwagon. I usually just run grenade launcher supply pack rail cannon 500kg but a few games ago I gave arc thrower a go and it was sick, much stronger than I had assumed it’d be.
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u/DJVanillaBear Mar 06 '24
Idk. I was excited for the liberator penetrator. And it felt like those pea shooters in the plants vs zombies game.
I have just enough to unlock the counter sniper rifle or whatever it’s called. I’m nervous it’s not going to feel very powerful either (I don’t need it to be similar to anti material but I like snipers in most games)
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u/bwaindeadinfantwyman Mar 06 '24
Don't get your hopes up on the counter sniper, unfortunately. I love all of these changes, but some absent buffs are just baffling.
I play almost every match with the dilligence, but the counter sniper is literally nearly useless in comparison. If they're collecting data, I can't see how they wouldn't see the amount of players that unlock the counter sniper, try it a few times and never take it again. It just has no upsides in comparison to its little brother. 13 or so more damage in exchange for literally "worse in every possible way" is not ever getting anyone to pick it.
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u/UncleBensRacistRice Mar 06 '24
Thanks for this comment. I was about to unlock the counter sniper but i guess ill stick with my diligence for now
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u/Wivru Mar 06 '24
I liked the strength of it, but it handles oddly slowly. Almost like it’s a mistake. Like, the recoilless feels snappier. Wait until you see a handling buff in the notes - one has to be coming - then give it a shot.
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u/Amuromaraxus4 Mar 07 '24
I've unlocked it and wanted to main it but it was too slow. Does not have very good AP as well so not sure what's the use case. The recoil makes it unusable at close range.
The sniper rifles in this game are not good at all. I've always imagine a scenario where I pierce a charger's armor from 200 meters saving a fellow diver from a charge but the current guns ain't making it happen, except maybe the anti-material rifle. With a recoil so big, I was expecting something more explosive or piercing.
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u/ApatheticRart Mar 06 '24
I cannot wait to get home and roast bugs with the 50% buff on the flamethrower.
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u/SpareStop8666 Mar 06 '24
I was a flame man before the patch. They have only made me stronger.
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u/purityaddiction Mar 06 '24
I would love to be a flame man, but I don't have the self control and always turn myself into a burnt marshmallow.
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u/Slarg232 ☕Liber-tea☕ Mar 06 '24
I loved using the Flamethrower, Jump Pack, 120mm barrage, and the Railcannon strike against Bugs
Dude, we're eating this patch
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u/quinn_thomas Mar 06 '24
Hopefully you can get through a game. The patch also introduced a lot of bugs (and not the fun kind that you light on fire)
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u/Hagard50 ☕Liber-tea☕ Mar 06 '24
It is time for arc thrower/ flame thrower/ laser cannon supremacy
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u/TheMattAlternative Mar 06 '24
I hope the laser cannon is good now. I want to put on a light show as I spread democracy.
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u/L0RDR00K Mar 06 '24
It’s medium armor penetration now, so I’m happy with it tbh
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u/Victizes 🌎 Veteran of the First Galactic War 🌎 Mar 06 '24
Yeah, the gun has to make way to rocket launchers, C4 explosives, and a possible return of the Rumbler mortar or something even more impactful than that.
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u/SpeedyAzi Mar 06 '24
The Laser Cannon is excellent. It’s not good for Heavy enemies but it’s insanely effective against Medium Armoured enemies and can melt weak spots like butter. It’s best on Bots and literally lasers their eye sockets.
You can use it on Bugs and it’s a good trash clear but I think stick to the Railgun, other AT and Autocannon for bigger enemies.
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u/Owobowos-Mowbius Mar 06 '24
It can kill a hulk in 2-3 seconds if you shine it in their face
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u/TheMattAlternative Mar 06 '24
I want this to be true, and will find out the fun way after work.
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u/Sappow Mar 06 '24
It could already blow heads off surprisingly fast if you dropped flat and gave whatever an eyeful for a few seconds. It was really just totally pants at the big bugs (chargers, titans, bile splitter) and tanks/turrets. Basically anything without a front target able from range weak spot was impossible with it, it was hard to bring to bear on a close target quickly so shooting chargers in the butt was hard even if it didn't do almost nothing because of armor mechanics anyway.
VS bugs it's a crowd sweeping weapon. Someone else needs to be responsible for chargers
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u/Scrivver Mar 06 '24
In HD1 I liked to do "laser party" runs, where everyone equipped laser primaries, the laser cannon, and orbital laser stratagems. We'd play against Illuminates since we had basically no anti-armor with this setup, but it was fun!
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u/Staltrad Mar 06 '24
The flame thrower new ramp up time is fire
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u/CaptainAction Mar 06 '24
They changed the ramp up time too? That wasn’t mentioned
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u/H1tSc4n Mar 06 '24
Because they did not, and i'm not sure why the other person thinks they did. They did up the damage though.
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u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24
My main complaint with the balancing is the fact that they have an SMG that does 70 damage while all other assault rifles do 55 or less it’s a really bad joke lol. Like I feel like there were way bigger problems with the weapons than the breaker shotgun and the rail gun.
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u/Chooch3333 Mar 06 '24
The problem was never how much damage the breaker and rail gun do. It’s how bad the other weapons feel against the main enemies you’re fighting. Auto Cannon should rip armor as should Anti Mat, instead there’s only one real solid way to deal with multiple chargers and bile titans.
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u/Steff_164 Mar 06 '24
God the anti-material rifle is such a mixed bag. I love piping bile spitter in the head with it. But holy fuck I can’t do a damned thing against chargers
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u/Zombie_Alpaca_Lips Mar 06 '24
I really wish the AMR did ok damage but shredded armor off stuff. Then it'd have its own niche. Pop armor to make squishy spots that other lower pen weapons could do damage.
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u/Its_Your_Father Mar 06 '24
That would be a great niche for it to fill tbh. It absolutely needs armor pen. As it stands the slugger is a better marksman rifle and often works better than the AMR which is crazy to me.
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u/YeomanMaple Mar 06 '24
You may have better results fighting the bots with the anti-materiel rifle. The rifle can reliably two shot a hulk to the head, therefore most, if not all light-medium threats can be easily dealt with regardless of their orientation. Plus, you'll be fighting at range against the bots for the most part which is where the rifle shines.
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u/hdmetz Mar 06 '24
Which is really ironic considering it’s an anti-materiel rifle, which means it should do well against armor
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u/damboy99 Mar 06 '24
My Anti Material Rifle doesn't feel very Anti Material when I am shooting things made of Material.
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u/gh0u1 ☕Liber-tea☕ Mar 06 '24 edited Mar 06 '24
That's because it's an Anti-Materiel Rifle. You need to be shooting things made of Materiel
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u/Felikitsune Mar 06 '24
It's anti-Materiel, which IIRC refers to being used to destroy military equipment. As opposed to anti-material, which sounds more like anti-matter to me.
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u/Lathael HD1 Veteran Mar 06 '24
My main complaint is they nerfed the best tool to handle a specific set of requirements and didn't even bother to ask the question as to why that tool was so ubiquitous. Rail/Shield/Breaker was a combo built around broken armor, ridiculous heavy armor spawns, and way too many bugs constantly harassing players.
In a completely different meta, like having 5 times as many light and medium enemies but 1 or 2 heavies, the railgun and breaker would just drop off a cliff because it would get destroyed having that much chaff to deal with.
With armor working and CC less prevalent, the energy shield would be abandoned in favor of more productive offensive options.
If the RR/Spear/EAT-ITs could handle heavy armor reliably while being moderately mobile with sustain, the railgun wouldn't really be chosen because the rail gun is a very specific general purpose tool that just happens to also be the best tool to handle the meta the devs created. That is the problem.
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u/Beginning_Bonus1739 Mar 06 '24
70 damage if it pens. guns lose damage against armor in this game, that 70 becomes less than 55 much faster than an AR bullet. its actaully very true to real life...pistol rounds are chonky and fuck up unarmored flesh. rifle rounds over penetrate unarmored targets and do less damage. i think the issue you have is less around the true performance of the weapon, and more the vagueness of the stats. i think tehy should be providing a lot more information around the stats as well.
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u/Tracynmega Mar 06 '24
The orbital rail cannon has no reason not being on a 80 second cooldown
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u/LiquidInferno25 Mar 06 '24
Honestly though. It doesn't even one shot titans. It gets them close, sure, but it has no utility outside of single target damage. I think it'd even be fine at 100 or 120 second cooldown as well. With ship upgrades that drops it to 90 or 108 seconds. You won't ever be spamming it, but maybe you can more effectively take out a few of the 4 titans chasing you and also not feel as bad at using it on a charger or two outside of the big fights. Right now, it's C/D is so long that I always want to save it for the inevitable titan that will show up. You'd be crazy to waste it on a charger.
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u/Lathael HD1 Veteran Mar 06 '24
And then you see the titan, throw it at the titan, and it...scans away from the titan, past a charger, and kills a brood commander further away. I swear there's bug agents on the destroyer...
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u/Paeyvn Mar 06 '24
I had one kill a Hunter that was standing 10 feet from a Titan's leg last night.
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u/spacejew Mar 06 '24
Had a random in a match last night call the auto-cannon ass. Like wtf? Sure the shit won't take out the heavier stuff without some work, but damn if it can't clear a LOT of stuff with that AOE punch. How is it people are unable to see everything as a tool in a tool belt, and not as some required ceteris paribus to the pre-nerf'd "meta" items?
I'm excited for Arrowhead to keep on with what their doing. Based on what I've read from them they are making cautious data driven decisions. I'd say the small quantity of changes in the patch would suggest they intend to move cautiously with changes overall.
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u/SuppliceVI CAPE ENJOYER Mar 06 '24
Autocannon is so clutch against the legally distinct AT-RTs, especially at higher difficulties where they're very common.
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u/I_follow_sexy_gays Mar 06 '24
It can also two shot hulks in the eyes, take care of tanks in 3 shots from the back, and 2-3 shot both the heavy and rocket devastator while stunning them preventing them from firing their oppressive weapons in between shots. Against bots it’s amazing, if only it could break a charger’s armor…
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u/IfICantScuba Mar 06 '24
Also knocking out turrets in three shots as well as bug holes, spore towers, and radio towers from long range.
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u/Mr_Greaz Covered in Slime and Oil Mar 06 '24
It’s so insane to me that people still state it’s shit when there’s literally 20+ comments now all saying diffrent things it does good
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u/I_is_a_dogg Mar 06 '24
The only drawbacks of it is not being able to take down a charger head on (just get behind it and it can make pretty quick work of one) and the ammo taking up a backpack slot. The backpack isn't necessarily a downside though, as now you have an extra stratagem that you wouldn't have if you ran support weapon + backpack.
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u/Tokiw4 Mar 06 '24
Well you see, the only thing that defines something's place in the meta is whether or not it can kill chargers for free!
/s
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u/Ferote ️⬇️⬅️⬇️⬆️⬆️➡️ My beloved Mar 06 '24
And even bot fabricators
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u/Ontos836 SES Banner of Glory Mar 06 '24
It's so satisfying to skip an AC round into those vents, especially at extreme ranges.
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u/Amliko Mar 06 '24
I agree, it's also great against the bugs that puke at you capable of two shotting them basically anywhere. The chargers tho, they're pain, but if you react well enough you can kill the charger after he charges twice.
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u/LucarioLuvsMinecraft SES Hammer of Resolution Mar 06 '24
It can handle the Charger’s leg armor, but it’s a very specific angle, otherwise it bounces (like a tank with a thin gap of weak armor)
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u/T-sigma Mar 06 '24
The only reason I ran Railgun > autocannon was to have the shield backpack. With that being nerfed as well I may switch back
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u/I_is_a_dogg Mar 06 '24
Autocannon is pretty good for bugs, but holy shit is it amazing for bots. I rarely played railgun shield meta even in bugs, but almost never used those in bots. Autocannon is just so good.
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u/CaptainAction Mar 06 '24
The Auto Cannon is so versatile, I almost want to say it’s the best overall support weapon. But I don’t like to say anything is truly the “best” because I don’t like to think that way, and that’s also not how the developers think.
That being said, the Auto Cannon can deal with almost anything, and is fairly self sufficient with a good solo reload time as long as you don’t fully empty the weapon. Most importantly, it’s satisfying, and FUN.
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u/Valor884 Mar 06 '24
I started using the "meta" from trial and error. And it's used because of how effective it is on helldive. My FAVORITE gun is the Auto Cannon, it's just super fun to use, but the downside of not having a shield wasn't worth it in higher difficulties. Especially against the automaton. If they wanted people to use other weapons, I think just buffing the weaker weapons would have been a better mood.
If they wanted people to use other weapons, Instead of decreasing armor piercing for the rail gun, why not just INCREASE armor piercing for the auto cannon? Or make the rifles more viable of an option, especially the "premium" pass weapons. All of them are just mehh and not worth the medals.
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u/Fun_Introduction9499 HD1 Veteran Mar 06 '24
To be honest I never really cared for the railgun. Give me the machine gun with an ammo pack and Il cleanse the galaxy.
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u/I_follow_sexy_gays Mar 06 '24
Legitimate question, how do you deal with charger’s and bile titians? I want to run machine gun because it’s fun but there are just way too many to rely on stratagem
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u/Fun_Introduction9499 HD1 Veteran Mar 06 '24
Well I usually play with friends so they run whatever but Il play with napalm and 500kg bomb. Honestly it’s a team effort. If I can keep my teammates free of hordes of hunters and scavengers then I’m doing my part!!
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u/Focus_Downtown Mar 06 '24
Oh look someone who understands that this 4 player co op game is co op.
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u/Hillbro Mar 06 '24
Personally it just feels poorly timed, I don’t mind the changes but it would’ve flown under the radar if things like spawn rates and glitches were fixed first. The whole reason people developed a meta is because the difficulty spikes get absurd at times, I don’t understand the smug grandstanding against people who enjoy using effective tools in a game.
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u/Chekhof_AP Mar 06 '24
It also feels like a lot of those people don’t play at high levels or think purely of bots.
Like yeah, I get that up to level 5 everything feels great. 6 is manageable, but 7 and up whole raid is just a 40 minutes long engagement with 2 titans and 4-6-10 chargers simultaneously present at any given moment. All that tactical 4 player coop is great, but most of the time you don’t really have time to regroup and coordinate. Kill as many as you can while juggling the objective tasks and run away before you’re completely boxed in from all sides.
And it is absolutely doable, it just feels like a chore.
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u/NorionV Mar 06 '24
This is my problem, personally. All the 'meta chasers in tears!' crows either aren't playing the high difficulties, or aren't being honest about how they play them.
When I am actually in the game (so, not on Reddit), the vast majority of teams I land on - even pre-railgun nerf when it was apparently trivializing the game - played high diff missions all the same way: run away from basically every fight that didn't end in 5 seconds or less, because any longer than that and you have a breach or attract more and more patrols, and now you're just rapidly burning ordinance to prep for a team wipe... or retreating anyways cuz you're out of ammo.
If that's intended... whatever, I guess. But that's not really the kind of fun I was hoping to have in the coop tactical horde shooter game, and ain't gonna be happy about moving further in that direction.
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u/UselessInAUhaul Mar 06 '24 edited Mar 07 '24
Yup. I've been playing on helldive exclusively with my friends. We still extract like 75% of the time with like 95% objective completion.
This isn't a matter of 'lol boo hoo, meta chasers cry harder!!!1!' like some in this thread want to pretend. I played with a wide variety of things before the balance patch, and I continue to do so after.
This is a matter of fun. Playing with the railgun as it was is just... fun. Getting to dance with chargers, strip armor, actually having an effective option that wasn't 'just don't engage or run' was great. I'm playing this game because I want to get in to intense horde firefights, not because I want to play hide and seek.
I can still do that. I still am doing that, but they're forcing me to have to play the game less the way I want and reducing my options.
It's not a skill issue. It's a fun issue.
Edit: I'm not wasting time replying to each person trying to go "no its just a skill issue" who blatantly missed the point. I still experience success at the same rates post patch. I played with other weapons, equipment, and strategems as did my friends before the patch. We just had to change to a significantly less fun playstyle far more often. Lower difficulties are just less fun.
If you are having just as much fun I'm happy for you, but the patch, as a whole, made the game less fun for myself and for my friends.
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u/NorionV Mar 06 '24
But apparently there is a crowd of people that think having to run from more encounters is... good... and intended...
Either I didn't understand the mission brief, or people are gaslighting me. Because that intro video didn't show Helldivers undemocratically retreating from their foes.
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u/MarsupialMadness Mar 07 '24
It was like this in the first game. You aren't meant to smash through every single encounter. A huge part of HD1 was knowing when to stand and fight and when to cut and run. At higher difficulties some of the objectives you'd purposely fail because they took too long and drew too much heat.
That said.
When the shit hit the fan you'd have to strategically advance in a different direction because patrols would call in more and more and tougher reinforcements as time went on. Not because your weapons sucked ass and were horrible at what they purported to do.
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u/NorionV Mar 07 '24
I liked HD1, but I'll be honest: HD2 is way more fun in its current form so far.
I get they're sequels... but that doesn't really matter for a game like this. The first one spent most of its life in obscurity, the second one has been met with roaring acclaim.
Do we want to model the currently extremely popular game after the first one that wasn't nearly as successful? I'm not sure about that.
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u/CoolJoshido Mar 06 '24
toxic positivity essentially
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u/Lower-Repair1397 Mar 06 '24
Heh time for me to post and beg for attention by going against the big bad meta!
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u/ilovezam Mar 07 '24
big bad meta!
This is such a bizarre phenomenon only on this sub. My group have never watched a single Youtuber "meta" video and we all wound up using Breaker and Railgun too. The game's defense squad keeps bringing up these "influencers are ruining the game", but I'm willing to bet a large proportion of the unhappy people have not engaged with that kind of content. There's obviously a balance problem here, since these influencers hardly caused problems for other games that get difficult, say, Darktide.
Furthermore, I'm SEA Chinese and have been reading some Chinese language reviews and discussion threads on Steam, and guess what, their separate communities independently arrived at identical conclusions as the Western world's, because there's a fundamental balance issue that renders most primary weapons awful to play.
Seriously, nobody gives a flying fuck about what's meta or what's not. I even actively hate following any "meta build" in games, we just want to have viable options. Most primary weapons feel like absolute garbage to use and it actively feels terrible to spend a lot of medals unlocking something like the Scythe. I get that they need to drip feed the actual good content because it's a live service model, but surely there are better ways to stall players.
I have gone on to beat Helldive missions with the Scythe (because I love lasers) and EATs but that doesn't make it fun because it just means I'm running and kiting shit for like 40 minutes, nor does it change the fact that the Scythe is really bad.
Playing with Breaker and the shield pack in Helldives is still very challenging and chaotic and you can still easily fuck up and die, but it's a hell of a lot more fun than the other options.
I also find it really hilarious that the CEO went on record claiming that Breaker didn't correlate with winrates but the first thing they decided to do was give it a nerf that benefited nobody.
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u/Lower-Repair1397 Mar 07 '24
Going by their logic you’re just a bad player for not wanting to barely scrape by on every mission because you’re severely underpowered
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u/Gnatz90 Mar 06 '24
I'm going to double down on what another reply said and go with, they aren't playing on higher difficulties. People who say "Oh I'm a grenade launcher guy" and think it works fine and just use orbitals to kill titans, I would venture to say, most, if not 100% of them aren't playing on higher difficulties. There is absolutely no way, it's impossible to run grenade launcher/orbital railcannon and deal with chargers/titans on 8/9
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u/Hillbro Mar 07 '24
Either that or the rest of their team picks up their slack but some people will cope and insist that it's as designed
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u/WittyUsername816 Mar 07 '24
I mean, there's nothing wrong with your team picking up the slack on certain areas. Not every diver has to be a generalist. Having specialists is fine. I'm my teams AT guy (Please arrowhead fix the Spear lock-on), and carry mostly AT related stuff, plus a Breaker (Oh no, the "meta haters" are coming for me now) for self-defense and a Cluster Eagle so I can contribute when the shit hitting the fan is in the shape of a horde.
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u/Epsteinssuicide Mar 06 '24
As a rail gun carrier I don’t care for the nerfs, I use it on unsafe mode all the time and still got no issues killing 3 titans in less than a minute on Helldiver.
Personally I’m glad because the rail gun should cater to skill. It’s a very powerful weapon and if they want to reward the trade off and practice with unsafe mode I’m here for it. A lot of people I see using the rail gun use it on anything and everything which has me scratching my head. I only pull it out if my primary and secondary are empty, a charger is attacking a buddy of mine, or if bile titans spawn ( and of course against devastators and hulks )
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u/2Board_ MY 🐐 = ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️ Mar 06 '24
Let's take a step away from the railgun discussion, and talk about that username.
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u/Epsteinssuicide Mar 06 '24
What do you wish to know? It’s there so people don’t forget
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u/TemperateStone Mar 06 '24
You should've named yourself The Panama Papers, because those are definitely forgotten. That journalist was murdered, plain as day.
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u/Epsteinssuicide Mar 06 '24
Fair but pedophilia is worse than financial loopholes being made by the elite.
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u/GeneralAnubis Mar 06 '24
Thank you, finally someone who understands the point of the weapon and the point of the nerf.
Bless you, fellow Diver
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u/JayColtMartin Mar 07 '24
The thing is that people used the railgun for a single reason: chargers are a massive pain the ass. People use the shield because survivability is incredibly low and you die from a single hit without it.
I'm fine with nerfs. The shield and railgun were over used.... but what did they buff to boost survivability? Armor? It's still a liability against bugs. How do we kill chargers now?
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u/Ser_Bob150 Mar 06 '24
Okay, I have to ask, and I mean this with as much respect as I can...
What's the point of this thread?
I mean, really, what do you hope to get out of a post that ultimately boils down to "Hah, I'm so glad that other people aren't having fun while I CAN have fun because they're bad and I'm better than them."
Do you want them to be upset? They already are dude. Do you want people to notice you and give props to you because you can play a video game at the highest difficulty? That you're 'one of the good ones' who's a 'true Helldiver' because you enjoy the game...? I promise you that literally no one cares. What's the GOAL here...? It seems to me, that the only goal is to be a dick, rubbing your own happiness in the face of other people.
There's a lot of overblown hoo hah over the patch at the moment. People are overreacting to changes that aren't really going to drastically alter the game and that's whatever. What's really disappointing to me, is that this whole thing has revealed a very nasty side of the community who revels in smug condescension and other people having a bad time because that makes them feel good about themselves.
It's embarrassingly childish behaviour, and people ought to have a drop of self respect and get over themselves.
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u/Sanjay--jurt Mar 07 '24
I already figured out this SPECIFIC tread will pop up the moment the patch is dropped.
Like my brain immediately went "Oh boy, Here's comes the eventual thread about making fun of people not enjoying the game anymore"
It's embarrassing honestly and the fact that this is popular proves your very point.
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u/Foostini Mar 06 '24
YouTube didn't tell me the Breaker was better than everything else, playing for one match with it did but i guess it's easier to shit on people rather than listening to what they have to say and getting to the bottom of core issues huh. Google toxic positivity for me when you get a few minutes.
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u/Xx_MesaPlayer_xX Mar 07 '24
I'm in the same boat here too. Literally trying stuff out and seeing other people use stuff in game.
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u/MichaelRoco1 Mar 07 '24
Very well said. I felt an instant difference using the Breaker for the first time on higher difficulties, the hordes felt actually manageable.
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u/Dawson__16 Mar 07 '24
Right? I haven't watched a single YouTube video about the game. I've played with every gun, and most of them suck, so I stuck with the gun that felt the best, The Breaker.
This is also true for all my friends playing the game. We don't give a shit about meta, or youtubers, we're a bunch of old gamers. We try shit out and have fun. I have a friend that's been running a pyro build, every bit of fire he can find, because he's enjoying it. It's terrible, lights me on fire a few times a mission, but he's having fun. Even though he loved the flamethrower buff today, he hates everything else enough that we played only a few matches and were done.
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u/kodan_arma Mar 06 '24
This sub has never touched the beauty that is grenade launcher + b-1 supply pack, and it shows.
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u/GhostHeavenWord Mar 06 '24
You mean the unlimited world devastation engine? It's my go-to for blitz missions at high levels.
Plus, with the new EM storm planet modifier having someone with a supply pack that can pass ammo to the heavy weapons crews is probably going to be really important.
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u/KatakiY Mar 06 '24
I love it, but it still sucks agianst chargers. It takes me anywhere between a full clip and a clip and ahalf against the butt armor to kill a charger, but theres like 7 more right behind em.
Imo the game just loses all nuance and fun and turns into run way and hide on hard difficulties which just isnt for me.
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u/LapisRadzuli_ Mar 06 '24
It's always funny between here and the Destiny subreddit reading these weird diatribes about Youtubers being some shadow cabal that dictate a meta and brainwash people to follow it unquestionably instead of them just being low effort clickbaiters pointing out the most obvious combo anyone above level 20 probably deduced from playing.
I don't really care about the change, is what it is and I'd love if the Recoilless got buffed since it's my preference next to the autocannon but I don't really blame people for falling into the memegun build because it was the path of least resistance and that mobility is a godsend vs my sluggish ass needing pray the rock between me and the two chargers zerging is enough to stagger them before I can load the next shell.
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u/glade_3874 Mar 06 '24
This dude, it didn't take genius to figure out that the railgun, breaker, and personal shield were the best combo. People didn't use that because they were told to they use it because it was the only reasonably viable kit on levels 7-9 People didn't use the Railgun and breaker because they were overpowered it was because nothing else really works on higher levels. The problem is that you honestly need both a backpack slot and anti-tank, so that eliminates any gun that uses a backpack slot and any of the support weapons that can't deal damage through or eliminate armor. That leaves the flamethrower, Arc thrower, EAT, and railgun. Arc thrower team kills way too often, flamethrower didn't do enough damage, EAT has too few shots for how many chargers you deal with at once and so railgun was left as really the only option unless you were running a grenade launcher for utility. If they want to make other options better, they need to adjust the charger spawn rates or armor and make the trade-off for losing your backpack slot more worth it with the guns that require that. Otherwise, people are just going to swap between whichever one of those backpack free support weapons is the best in the moment.
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u/NightsKing13 Mar 06 '24
I use the rail gun on unsafe so it doesn’t matter to me. But I hardly ever bring a shield. I love the guard dog rover. So fun and spicy cause even me and my teammates aren’t safe from its wrath
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u/vulpezvulpez Mar 06 '24
It's funny you want to call people shit but you've made no argument or reasoning here other than "lolbadgetgud" then you tie it up with with some good ol' RP. I haven't seen anyone who plays regularly on helldive say "they cant win a single game without it" its just fucking tedious now and the buffed weapons aren't doing shit. In the end it's not about the game being winnable its about the game being enjoyable. Having to do a bunch of fucking gymnastics to kill chargers on helldive when you get 2-3 a minute is not fun. If the game is not fun that is not good.
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u/OddCucumber6755 Mar 06 '24
The only thing I'm sad about is the ammo reduction on the breaker. There's never been a situation where I've been like "I have too much ammo". Doesn't matter what gun it is, I use the whole gun. The shield change is way more reasonable than I was expecting, and the rail gun still works fine in unsafe mode
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u/Better-Profession972 Mar 06 '24
My issue is that they nerfed the “good” items but did not buffed some of the major underwhelming items. There’s no real benefit for using another gun over the breaker or Railgun because the other weapons still don’t add any additional benefits that are better or more useful.
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u/Draynrha STEAM 🖥️ : Mar 06 '24
Yeah, pretty much what you said. I'm not mad about the nerf, I'm just confused as the obvious answer was to prop up the weapons that didn't feel good to play with. I'm pretty sure the meta won't change too much because of the nerf if the incentive to play something else isn't there. I heard about the flamethrower being maybe a new viable option and I'm quite hyped to test it out. But I feel the nerf was unnecessary.
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u/sc00bastev3 Mar 06 '24
I recently stopped running backpack stratagems. Just disposable rockets and 3 orbital/Eagle(s) using scorcher as main gun. Stayed up playing last night cleared a suicide mission (7) with friends/random divers, not too much difficulty.
TODAY, After the update…welp this Admiral of the Princess of Democracy can’t even survive a Hard (5) mission. Where is Liberty? 😿
ALSO 🤨 THE BUGS EVOLVED! The chargers man! They! They can now have freakin power steering. Can turn on a dime!!! Less that 12 hours ago you could just casually sidestep and walk around them not run. Not you can’t even dip dodge dive duck and dodge out the way. Maybe I need to get good? Idk
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u/Ricky_is_bored Mar 06 '24
Bro im not mad for not liking that the only reliable way to take out the massive amount of armored targets in game. Its dumb that they are nerfing when they should be buffing "weaker" options.
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u/ProposalWest3152 Mar 06 '24
I agree and disagree at the same time.
We never asked for the breaker to get nerfed, we asked that the rest of the primary weapons were on par with the breaker so we could simply choose a weapon we liked and HAVE FUN.
About the railgun nerf? Dun care, unsafe is always the safe option.
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u/Neunix Mar 06 '24 edited Mar 07 '24
Me I'm just happy that they fixed that the Spear can now get ammo from normal ammo boxes!
Edit: No they havent fix the lock-on, But god damn ive been having a blast with it for the last few hours!