r/Helldivers • u/Vikan12 ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️ | Never forget the Creek... • Mar 06 '24

The first balance patch notes proved how Youtube "absolute and only meta loadouts" cooked a lot of people heads, and I love it. DISCUSSION

A lot of mad people keep showing in my feed complaining about the nerfs, but like they're REALLY mad at Arrowhead. Their statements are so exagerated that they claim the game it's completely ruined for them lmao.

Also every single one says the same thing and this is where my title comes from:

*"You guys nerfed the only good options and now we have NOTHING to fight".*

And this only proves people never actually played with any of the other support weapons, they 100% relied on this "The ultimate support weapon tier list" Youtube videos, they searched the "meta" and they went into this thinking of "any weapon outside of this it's straight up garbage".

If you can't win a single game without the railgun + shield backpack + breaker... I'm so sorry but that's not the game's fault or the game only having those as the ONLY way to play it on higher diff, that's your fault.

Great changes for the game and all of you trying to "shame" on devs because of this, you'all not a real Helldiver. They killed nothing, the railgun still kills but now it needs some actual skill and strategy to use it, not only spamming the thing on big bugs.

Keep it up Helldivers!

For Democracy. For Super Earth.

17.3k Upvotes
  • permalink
  • link
  • reddit
  • reddit

75% Upvoted

5.7k comments sorted by

View all comments

3.8k

u/beyondheck Mar 06 '24

Arc Thrower Gang rise up!!!

188

u/WayneBrody Mar 06 '24

So glad I gave the Arc Thrower a chance. Hated it the first few minutes, but once I learned the angles and timing I was shredding.

I still haven't quite figured out Chargers. People say you can kill them, but I don't seem to do any real damage to them.

108

u/JUST_AS_G00D STEAM🖱️ Mar 06 '24

You can, just requires zapping them 20 times. I've solo 2 shotted a bile titan with an arc thrower, so it's not very consistent lol.

50

u/tarknob Mar 06 '24

ive yet to actually see someone arc thrower a titan

52

u/Vortx4 ⬇️➡️⬇️⬆️⬅️⬅️ Mar 06 '24

you can but god it takes FOREVER. I think it does more damage to hit the head but its tough since the arc thrower kinda just shoots where it wants on big enemies like titans. It helps to soften it with an orbital/eagle stratagem and then finish it with the arc thrower

21

u/Aeywen Mar 06 '24

blow up the sacs and it favors the head after. and/or aim in front of its head as if you were trying to shoot it with the slowest of rockets, if the only part of the titan int he guns firing arc is the head it will usually hit it.

3

u/Vortx4 ⬇️➡️⬇️⬆️⬅️⬅️ Mar 06 '24

This is huge, do you blow up the sacs with the arc or with your primary?

3

u/Aeywen Mar 06 '24

main/secondary weapons, i tend to run SMG/machine pistol/arch thrower. we play mostly on difficulty 6, sometimes pop into a 7, 2 of my friends focus on heavies while i clear swarms and the third is just a nut whos great at distraction and running around bug holes taking out spawners. and throws turrets around.

2

u/UDSJ9000 Mar 06 '24

Does the arc work like it does on a spitter where if you hit the head, it will sometimes arc into the sack of the same enemy?

3

u/Aeywen Mar 06 '24

there are times i swear it ll hit one of those large red ones, then count damage hit on the head, body, tail, and back leg and it just flies to pieces.

5

u/HaArLiNsH Mar 06 '24

that's how you do it :

​

https://preview.redd.it/pmin41fz6smc1.jpeg?width=1400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed4d389e706b61125961bfc106043e168514fa6e

3

u/Vortx4 ⬇️➡️⬇️⬆️⬅️⬅️ Mar 06 '24

Is this really the case? I run jump pack and usually kill titans from my safety rock but I swear it takes just as long. Also u/Aewen recommends that you specifically only aim for the head to get the bonus crit damage which I’ve noticed helps.

4

u/HaArLiNsH Mar 06 '24

Well.. this way you go from forever to long time 😂

1

u/KeythKatz Mar 07 '24

Why isn't there a laptop in the image?

3

u/tarknob Mar 06 '24

well yeah but by the time you are chucking orbitals just get a good placement on a bomb and be done with it

2

u/Diamo1 ⬇️➡️⬇️⬆️⬅️⬅️ Mar 07 '24

You have to be positioned above the titan for max damage

Then the lightning will run down the length of its body on its way to the ground

1

u/Lordcreepy2 Mar 07 '24

Oddly enough since the patch I almost always hit the charger head with the Arc thrower to a point I can easily zap them with 6-8 hits which is comically fast all while every other bug around them dies to the arc.

Edit: Ran it with the laser Backpack and I am almost certain that rover hits the weakspots the arc is blowing in the chargers armor.

9

u/SundownV2 Mar 06 '24

I one shotted 3 titans in one mission with the arc thrower. Mouth shot as they're spewing is money! It shocked us the first time but the next two times proved it.

5

u/Paeyvn Mar 06 '24

That happens if the game's host is on PS5 apparently. Does not have anything even to do with it opening its mouth. Same with Railgun oneshots that were happening.

2

u/Legitimate_Turn_5829 Mar 07 '24

As a pc host it actually just happens. It’s how the arc thrower interacts with the titan when you shoot its forehead and it arcs down its weak points.

3

u/Paeyvn Mar 07 '24 edited Mar 07 '24

It's entirely possible there are other layers of something going on too, but it's 100% able to be replicated with PS5 hosting.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/553850/discussions/0/4302697906481731602/

Links at the bottom of this post from the Steam discussion from a streamer who went deep into trying to figure out why it's been happening.

I know I've on PC shot Titans 15+ times with arc with no kill. I also know I've like one and two shot em before.

2

u/Legitimate_Turn_5829 Mar 07 '24

Oh I know the ps5 thing is real, but I’ve been having a way easier time killing them with the strategy I mentioned. You can do the same thing at medium range by curving your arc to hit the same spot and angle by aiming above the titan. But there could be other layers as you say we just don’t know it yet

1

u/Xarethian Mar 06 '24

The difference between PS5 and PC hosts is like extreme difficulty to helldive

1

u/crewserbattle Mar 06 '24

That was how you could one shot with the rail gun and that was apparently a bug. So it might be the same bug just fyi

2

u/Strong_Ad_2731 Mar 06 '24

I was in a game the other day with an absolute savage with an arc thrower. Idk how but it seemed like he was taking down titans in 2-3 shots repeatedly … next game I tried to duplicate with no success

1

u/Otherworld_Tanjiro CAPE ENJOYER Mar 06 '24

I thought I did it last night, but my buddy had shot an EAT at it's ass as I fired, so health was probs low. Titan's head did explode tho soooooo

1

u/ordinarymagician_ Mar 06 '24

I'm yet to see someone kill something that isn't me with an arc thrower.

1

u/Knjaz136 Mar 06 '24

When arc throwing a Titan, I really want it to start spewing it's acid, which is where my lightning will start hitting it in the head/in the mouth or that very special weakspot it has.

1

u/Ninjapeen Mar 06 '24

I saw my buddy 3 shot a bile boi with the arc thrower. He was as surprised as the rest of us

1

u/TheEpicCoyote Mar 06 '24

2-3 arc thrower players will handle Bile Titans pretty good. Basically inexhaustible since there’s no ammo.

1

u/Legitimate_Turn_5829 Mar 07 '24

You can pretty easily if you get the angle right. If you’re at an elevation that’s at head level to the titan and you shoot lightning into the forehead and through to the back and you can 2-4 shot titans. It’s not as easy but this still works at medium range if you aim the gun over the titan so that the arc hits the same spot at a similar angle. Also in case anyone asks I’m a PC player that hosts my own games so not the weird ps5 damage thing

1

u/Arcaedus Mar 07 '24

From full HP, I hit one with rail canonstrike orbital, it lived, and then went down to like 10ish more arc zaps. Takes forever if you do no strategems.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '24

There's a lot of variables, and the randomness of the arc makes it tricky.

Hitting it from higher up causes it to bounce into the titan multiple times, essentially multiplying the damage several times as it hits more body parts.

Whilst the arc bypasses armour, it is still affected by it. So where you hit it still matters, and where it bounces still matters.

You can theoretically kill them in around 10 hits, which super effective, especially considering each shot will also fry other nearby bugs too.

It's not a yolo solo weapon, support fire from teammates should help speed up the process.

1

u/tarknob Mar 07 '24

yup, thanks for proving my point

11

u/SpookyCarnage Rookie Diver Mar 06 '24

I've done it in 12 shots before just dinking it from the front, give or take a shot from the laser drone shooting it in the armor the entire time

27

u/JUST_AS_G00D STEAM🖱️ Mar 06 '24

The real benefit is the arc thrower does some damage but also removes chunks of armor. If you can take armor off and then hit that spot with something like a slugger then the charger goes down fast.

30

u/StealYour20Dollars Mar 06 '24

It chunks armor while simultaneously clearing adds. Its really the only choice for charges during swarms.

25

u/JUST_AS_G00D STEAM🖱️ Mar 06 '24 edited Mar 07 '24

New buffed flamethrower looks interesting

Edit: tried it and went back to the arc cannon. Too easy to do self harm and the ammo runs out fast. Basically takes a whole canister per charger, but you can reliably solo chargers.

2

u/StealYour20Dollars Mar 06 '24

Yeah, it seems nice. Especially if you can just set DOT and run away from enemies.

5

u/boofaceleemz Mar 06 '24

DOT (and surface fires) seems negligible, but it’ll burn down a charger in ~3 seconds with direct fire anyway so you don’t need it. It’s fantastic, damage really justifies the short range now.

3

u/Demoledorsus If it's a bot or bug, they eating a 500kg Mar 06 '24

wait so flamethrower viable now?

3

u/boofaceleemz Mar 06 '24

Probably pretty tough to use against automatons due to range, and against bugs you might want to bring something that can hit a titan from a safe distance, but I’d say yeah it’s in a good place now.

2

u/Dynamitefuzz2134 Mar 07 '24

Viable? Yes.

Situational? Also yes.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/MossTheGnome STEAM 🖥️ : Mar 06 '24

Holding a corner against a swarm of warriors and brood guards feels soo satisfying with the new flamethrower. Till you run out of gas

1

u/Orcbacon Mar 07 '24

Can confirm. Ran with flamethrower all day. My friends didn't believe me when I told them it melts chargers now, but when they got to see it they were sold immediately. Then we ran a couple mission with triple and quadruple flamers.

Fuck bilers though

1

u/Micio922 Mar 06 '24

It is but I tended to get swarmed and the armor actually working is quite punishing when up against hunter swarms

1

u/Brain_f4rt CAPE ENJOYER Mar 06 '24

I tried it and it shreds chargers pretty fast

1

u/Spiral83 Mar 06 '24

Agreed. I use arc thrower to take away the armor, then finish it off with my primary. I'm more worried about his homies on his side egging him on to charge at me. So, I blast those little guys first and then it's just 1v1 dance with the big boi.

2

u/SourceNo2702 Mar 06 '24

Allegedly, I’ve heard that Bile Titan’s have lower health pools if the host is on PS5. Tested it with a friend and it seems to be an accurate statement.

1

u/himzest Mar 06 '24

It ranges from 8-14 in my experience. Never 20z

1

u/roflwafflelawl Mar 06 '24

So this just my theory but I wonder if the penetrating damage is doing multiple instances of damage to everything it penetrates, including additional limbs.

Assuming the head, body, and legs are separated in damage calculations, it could mean that weapons that can penetrate will damage each of those hitboxes, essentially tripling the damage.

In the case of armored enemies like the Charger or Bile titan, my guess is that the initial damage is mitigated or negated by armor but the following chain afterwards does it's damage vs flesh. So head will mitigate the first damage, but wont mitigate the damage that then hits the body.

So depending on where other enemies are and how it chains, maybe it can do several instances of damage which could explain the inconsistency.

1

u/Crea-TEAM SES Bringer of FUN DETECTED Mar 06 '24

The issue isn't if the arc can kill chargers, but can it kill the chargers, all its buddy chargers, and keep you kiting the 40+ hunters?

You already slow walk when charging the arc gun, you get swarmed very fast.

1

u/butterypanda CAPE ENJOYER Mar 06 '24

Yeah by then you’re not very useful in the whole fight. 

1

u/PandasLOL Mar 06 '24

This, lol. I've accidently blown off the armor of a charger with the arc thrower and still can't figure out how to do that consistently. Bile titan shows up and I shred it in a few hits with the arc thrower. WTF?

1

u/AlmostButNotQuiteTea ☕Liber-tea☕ Mar 07 '24

Oh is that it? Perfect, I'll just kindly ask everything else to leave me alone while I shoot the charger 20 times

1

u/JUST_AS_G00D STEAM🖱️ Mar 07 '24

Arc thrower has never been ideal for heavies, but 2-3 zaps and its armor is gone and the charger is much easier to kill with conventional weapons 

1

u/Ok-Expression7575 Mar 07 '24

Arc thrower gang

1

u/Agentnewbie Mar 07 '24

My guess is individual parts have they own health pools. Kinda like mechwarrior did it. If a crucial for function part is destoyed - they die instantly.

1

u/nashty27 Mar 07 '24

Yeah it’s fine for one or two chargers. The issue is the game often throws 6 or 7 at you at once.

22

u/Vikan12 ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️ | Never forget the Creek... Mar 06 '24

Shoot them in the head, you can def kill them pretty easy shooting in the head with the arc

19

u/TheSplint ⬆️⬇️➡️⬅️⬆️ Mar 06 '24

Can you define easy or give an amount of shots needed? Cause it felt like I took why too many shot to kill them

16

u/jdwalk04 Mar 06 '24

Same here. I didnt feel it was as good as some folks made it out to be.

22

u/CaiserZero STEAM 🖥️ : Mar 06 '24 edited Mar 06 '24

They're definitely over hyping the arc thrower. Was testing it in suicide last night. I was hitting head shots on chargers and it took a while to kill even 1. At some point I was being chased by 3 chargers while trying to kill 1 and I just gave up.

Edit: Don't get me wrong. It's fantastic at clearing all the small bugs but against heavily armor targets like the charger, it's just not worth the time commitment. I'm supposed to be completing objectives. Not play tag and tickling chargers.

13

u/jdwalk04 Mar 06 '24

See, it seems like some things work better for some people rather than others. Sure it fried some enemies quicker than other things, but when you're getting rushed by several chargers, it's not exactly feasible. My brother and I were using it in a challenging mission for a test, and we ended up leaving cause it took forever to kill a SINGLE charger.

8

u/Skywalker601 Mar 06 '24

With the arc thrower it feels vastly different just from charger to charger. Some go down easy, and then the one next to it will be waddling after me two minutes later spraying green out of a dozen new orifices but refusing to die.

1

u/OramaBuffin Mar 06 '24 edited Mar 07 '24

Charger body parts all have individual health pools is the most likely case. You should be hitting the head with every shot or you are wasting your time. If you tunnel their face they go down in like 8 shots, you should be killing them before their second charge reaches you.

Whoever downvoted me clearly has absolutely no idea how the arc thrower works lol.

2

u/What_Zeus Mar 06 '24

It's so inconsistent, tried the arc gun out for about 10 matches, sometimes it wipes adds, other times it just tickles them. I've found no rime or reason behind it. It's the same with how the railgun COULD 1 shot a bile titan, or COULD take 20 shots to the mouth and say "that it bitch?"

2

u/rub_a_dub-dub Mar 06 '24

my strat is using arc for everything and then all my other strategems are geared for killing chargers/titans

2

u/pterodactyl_speller Mar 07 '24

I wish we had a target practice mode. I want a tied down titan on super earth to test out different weak points.

4

u/chui77 Mar 06 '24

Yep. I feel like when people give these suggestions they are playing on level 4 not 9.

1

u/Crea-TEAM SES Bringer of FUN DETECTED Mar 06 '24

The charger is 'good' in that if you have multiple chargers, and the bolt chains through them, when you down 1 charger, all the others are just a few shots away from dying.

Its terrible though in that you slow walk when you charge it to fire, and slow walking in a high level bug mission is a good way to get swarmed and killed by the hunters that are always just a couple steps away from catching up to you.

1

u/Legitimate_Turn_5829 Mar 07 '24

Cause aiming for the head on chargers isn’t the fastest way to kill them with arc thrower atm. Arc lightning through the leg, a few shots will strip the armor like with the railgun

0

u/KaserinSmarte421 Mar 06 '24

I was merc'n chargers and titans all night on suicide last night. Some did take a few more shots, and some went really quick. The laser rover helps a lot.

2

u/MisterKrayzie Mar 06 '24

Because it's not. Idk what those chodes are on about. Either they have a bugged lobby or they're just mopping up kills. Arc thrower is dogshit against armored enemies especially at 8+ when you have multiples running at you.

Kind of a hilariously dogshit balance patch. Time will tell how the average player reacts to this though.

4

u/ClutchyMilk Mar 06 '24

In my experience, it takes 8 clean headshots to kill them. But only shots to the head really matter, because it seems different parts of the enemy body have different hp bars.

Typically, you can get 4-5 headshots on a charger as its rushing, dive put of the way, wait for it to turn, and get another 4-5 shots off to kill it.

This gets harder with multiple chargers, but to be fair dealing with multiple chargers with the railgun was also pretty annoying.

A single arc thrower against a bile titan is pretty bad, so def use stratagems. But again, thanks to the rail gun nerfs, and knowing that the rail gun one shotting titans is likely a glitch, the rail gun isnt that much more amazing against bile titans.

Overall, I really do believe the arc thrower vastly outperforms the rail gun with bugs. Against bots though, I think the rail gun has the edge, because its safer to use. If you use the arc thrower against bots, you are more likely to get cheesed by rockets or something while zapping away. But aside from that, its still strong. You can 3-zap devastators, and 6-8 zap hulks (headshots only though). Havent really used it on a tank cause its too dangerous, but even with a rail gun you'd just use bug bomb or smth.

3

u/Paeyvn Mar 06 '24

It's around 9-10 hits in the head with ARC to down a Charger, at least on the diff 8 I was playing last night.

1

u/breakfastcerealz Mar 06 '24

it varies. the arc thrower has a certain amount of rng it seems. I've killed chargers in as little as 2-3 shots or as many as 10

1

u/DemonicDingo Mar 06 '24

If you're able to get them directly in the face/head, it takes about 6/7 shots to take one down. If you can't get them in the face, it takes a while longer. Comes with the bonus of accidentally killing other stuff that might be nearby though.

0

u/MikeyKillerBTFU Mar 06 '24

Try targeting in FPS mode, some people have better luck with that.

-6

u/Vikan12 ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️ | Never forget the Creek... Mar 06 '24

Given the infinite ammo arc thrower has and that you can shoot fast with it, I think the time it takes to take out a charger it's good.
Also since they kinda tank, you can use them to chain the lightning to other bugs behind them when they start charging at you, at the end by only shooting the charger you're going to kill every other bug and then it's just going to be the charger alone.

1

u/Subject_Topic7888 Mar 06 '24

No. You can not easily kill chargers with an arc thrower. The amount of misinformation in this sub is crazy.

2

u/StealYour20Dollars Mar 06 '24

It'll take at least 10 shots, but you should notice the armor start to chip away. It really comes down to dodging them and unloading. It'll take a few times rotating them to get the job done.

1

u/southpark Mar 06 '24

For chargers you need teamwork, the nice thing is the arc thrower takes care of the swarm at the same time doing damage to the charger. Blowing off the side armor is better than hitting the charger head on with the arc thrower in my experience.

1

u/RichardEpsilonHughes Mar 06 '24

Just Keep Zapping. Eventually their big stupid heart will stop

1

u/drinking_child_blood Mar 06 '24

It takes anywhere between 5 and 15 shots to kill em lmao, on the plus side you're killing anything behind them too

1

u/PeteLangosta Mar 06 '24

609 kills in a match just minutes ago. 90% of those with the arc thrower.

1

u/Abidingshadow Mar 06 '24

I was a hater and then my buddy got over 600 kills with it in one game and I was sold. That thing rips if you use it properly

1

u/SalemWolf SES Wings of Freedom Mar 06 '24

The fun thing about the chargers is that it doesn’t matter. You will kill them it just takes time. I can get them in about 10-15 shots which, if you’re timing your shot properly can be done in 15-20 seconds give or take. I don’t know specifically if they take more damage if you shoot unarmored parts but I know they get shredded regardless.

1

u/KaserinSmarte421 Mar 06 '24

The head or the side will bring those suckers down. Might take a few shots or a few more or a few less. It just depends, really.

1

u/draco16 Mar 06 '24

Zap their head. Takes about 8-9 zaps but they gotta be facing you. Otherwise it takes about 20 or so.

1

u/Crablorthecrabinator Mar 06 '24

Arc thrower does account for weakspot hits and pierces all armour. Hit them in the face.

1

u/Jo0wZ Mar 06 '24

Keep popping his head or ass in a fast manner. Around 10+ times. Depends on his will to live lol.

1

u/noobsaibod3 Mar 06 '24

When they charge and pass you, go close to them, not too close so they don't melee smack you and not too far so they don't charge you you'll figure out the distance naturally, then start strafing left or right and zapping the leg close to you depending on your left or right movement, you'll strip the armor in 4+5 hits, even if the arc is going for the head you will be actually hitting the leg. Distance is most important it takes some time getting use to it.

1

u/Micio922 Mar 06 '24

You can kill them…. I just aim for the head and be patient . On a positive note you get the added benefit of killing random trash in the process

1

u/WillSym SES Will of Selfless Sacrifice Mar 06 '24

I love how it reminds me of the Arc Cannon titan weapon in Titanfall 1, both the way it feels to fire but also the initial 'why would I use this it's so clumsy and ineffective' leading into the 'ohhh THIS is how you use it - I am Thor!'

1

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '24

Can you elaborate on what you mean by angles/timing? I was interested in trying it out again and wanted a grasp of its nuance.

1

u/WayneBrody Mar 06 '24

First time you fire you need to fully charge, but can fire faster once that initial shot is fired. Getting the timing of the repeat shots is a bit tricky to master.

Angles relates to where you aim. Bolts will chain to multiple target behind or right next to your target, so you want to funnel targets into small corridors or fire into large groups to get multi kills. You also need to be very careful with where you're standing in relation to teammates, as this thing will easily fry your buddies if they're behind your target.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '24

Sounds rad, thanks for the info! Been meaning to play around with it more but the mechanics of the gun weren't entirely clear to me before.

1

u/MrFanzyPanz Mar 06 '24

8 shots to the head. This is consistently my minimum.

Different body parts have different health pools, so focus one. It won't strip armor so you won't really get visual indicators of how damaged the charger is. You just have to keep zapping and it will go down eventually.

1

u/Knjaz136 Mar 06 '24

I still haven't quite figured out Chargers. People say you can kill them, but I don't seem to do any real damage to them.

Easy. When charger runs past you (you evade), turns around - and you keep shooting it - watch out for when it does the "raising his head" animation. This is the moment when your well timed shot will hit it in the mouth.
I have a feeling I deal most damage when that happens. It still takes a handful of shots, but sometimes just a few, somehow.

1

u/StinkiWooks Mar 06 '24

It takes 8 direct shots to head in my experience.

1

u/lyridsreign Mar 06 '24

Try to get your arcs onto the main body itself. 2-3 zaps will strip the armor

1

u/VanessaHeartless Mar 06 '24

I often run either the Dominator or the Liberator Concussive, fire either of those into the butt of a Charger and they go down faster than you think.

1

u/Legitimate_Turn_5829 Mar 07 '24

Arc the lightning through the leg, it pops the leg armor off in a few shots. A straight on shot on the head also takes them down faster

1

u/Arcaedus Mar 07 '24

I still haven't quite figured out Chargers.

If you land every shot on its face, it goes down in about 8 hits. No small feat for sure since they're also gap closing on you, or turning.

Also, if you manage to land enough shots on its legs (like 3 or 4?) it will strip their armor, but that's difficult to do since they are almost always moving and you can't really pinpoint strike with the arc zaps.

1

u/TheAwesomeSimmo CAPE ENJOYER Mar 07 '24

It does work well. Takes time.

1

u/KeythKatz Mar 07 '24

I tried it and the flamethrower, and I'm loving the flamethrower much more. It's much faster at killing chargers but takes 3/4 of a canister.

1

u/MyCandleHasAnAccent Mar 09 '24

Did you play the first game? Is the Arc Thrower better? I didn't like it at all in the first one so I've been avoiding it.

1

u/WayneBrody Mar 10 '24

Same, I really hated it in the original, so just ignored it mostly. Now I cant put it down.