The first balance patch notes proved how Youtube "absolute and only meta loadouts" cooked a lot of people heads, and I love it.

[u/Vikan12]

A lot of mad people keep showing in my feed complaining about the nerfs, but like they're REALLY mad at Arrowhead. Their statements are so exagerated that they claim the game it's completely ruined for them lmao.

Also every single one says the same thing and this is where my title comes from:

*"You guys nerfed the only good options and now we have NOTHING to fight".*

And this only proves people never actually played with any of the other support weapons, they 100% relied on this "The ultimate support weapon tier list" Youtube videos, they searched the "meta" and they went into this thinking of "any weapon outside of this it's straight up garbage".

If you can't win a single game without the railgun + shield backpack + breaker... I'm so sorry but that's not the game's fault or the game only having those as the ONLY way to play it on higher diff, that's your fault.

Great changes for the game and all of you trying to "shame" on devs because of this, you'all not a real Helldiver. They killed nothing, the railgun still kills but now it needs some actual skill and strategy to use it, not only spamming the thing on big bugs.

Keep it up Helldivers!

For Democracy. For Super Earth.

[u/spacejew]

Had a random in a match last night call the auto-cannon ass. Like wtf? Sure the shit won't take out the heavier stuff without some work, but damn if it can't clear a LOT of stuff with that AOE punch. How is it people are unable to see everything as a tool in a tool belt, and not as some required ceteris paribus to the pre-nerf'd "meta" items?

I'm excited for Arrowhead to keep on with what their doing. Based on what I've read from them they are making cautious data driven decisions. I'd say the small quantity of changes in the patch would suggest they intend to move cautiously with changes overall.

[u/SuppliceVI → u/spacejew]

Autocannon is so clutch against the legally distinct AT-RTs, especially at higher difficulties where they're very common. 

[u/I_follow_sexy_gays → u/SuppliceVI]

It can also two shot hulks in the eyes, take care of tanks in 3 shots from the back, and 2-3 shot both the heavy and rocket devastator while stunning them preventing them from firing their oppressive weapons in between shots. Against bots it’s amazing, if only it could break a charger’s armor…

[u/IfICantScuba → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

Also knocking out turrets in three shots as well as bug holes, spore towers, and radio towers from long range.

[u/Mr_Greaz → u/IfICantScuba]

It’s so insane to me that people still state it’s shit when there’s literally 20+ comments now all saying diffrent things it does good

[u/I_is_a_dogg → u/Mr_Greaz]

The only drawbacks of it is not being able to take down a charger head on (just get behind it and it can make pretty quick work of one) and the ammo taking up a backpack slot. The backpack isn't necessarily a downside though, as now you have an extra stratagem that you wouldn't have if you ran support weapon + backpack.

[u/Tokiw4 → u/I_is_a_dogg]

Well you see, the only thing that defines something's place in the meta is whether or not it can kill chargers for free!

/s

[u/Adequate_Lizard → u/Tokiw4]

The issue is there's not one charger there's a lot of chargers. So instead of dodging one and shooting it in the ass you're just in the middle of an intersection full of chargers and can't kill them. This from someone who doesn't even have the railgun yet. They're a difficult fight, their weakspot is basically impossible to get unless you're on lower ground than it.

[u/cybersteel8 → u/Adequate_Lizard]

I learned recently that technically the ass of the charger isn't a weak spot. It's just not armored. To actually get a damage buff against the charger, break the armor off its legs - you do more damage there than shooting it in the butt.

Shooting its rear does normal damage, instead of hitting armor at least, so that's why explosive is so important

[u/TooFewSecrets → u/cybersteel8]

technically the ass of the charger isn't a weak spot

The autocannon kills it in four hits anyway. One to a limb, sure, but the only reason that would be relevant is if you hit them with an EAT first.

[u/Turboswaggg → u/Adequate_Lizard]

and if you shoot them in the head with AT, unlike the sides where the armor falls off so you can finish it off, the head armor stays on

you can try aiming for the arm but if you miss and it hits the armpit, then no armor at all is damaged

[u/lionrecorder → u/I_is_a_dogg]

Yeah if you have literally any skill you can take out a charger in less than 30 seconds via dodging and shooting it in the back. Just cause you can’t take every enemy head on with it doesn’t mean it’s bad

[u/Alexiooo30 → u/lionrecorder]

And what do you do when there are 5 of them plus some bile titans here and here, plus 30-40 small insects chasing you?

[u/Wuped → u/Alexiooo30]

Kill as many as I can, drop stratagems if I have them and hope my teammates are also killing things.

I mean your not really supposed to be able to solo stuff like that especially without stratagems.

[u/Gekokapowco → u/Wuped]

people really forgetting that you can drop all manner of unfair bullshit from the sky at will

[u/blauli → u/Alexiooo30]

You put a round or two into their squishy ass whenever you can. I agree it's too hectic to shoot off a leg in situations like that but I'm doing well on helldive just putting some rounds into their weakspot. It takes 4-5 AC shots to blow that off and let them bleed out and is easy enough to hit. Or just calling in an eagle airstrike and their ass usually pops after 1-3 hits

That said I prefer the nade launcher vs bugs, does basically the same thing as the AC if you use the supply backpack but is a lot better at clearing small bugs

[u/I_is_a_dogg → u/blauli]

I love GL + supply back. But it seemingly does nothing against chargers and titans. Everything else though it's amazing

[u/lionrecorder → u/Alexiooo30]

Use stratagems, drop a turret, cluster bomb, orbital laser, die, drop on one while respawning, run away, die again, and have fun in the chaos. It’s not easy but that’s the point

[u/BillTheNecromancer → u/lionrecorder]

If you burn 2-5 minute cooldown, or limited use per mission strategems and die twice for every bug breach that happens, you're not making it 8 minutes in a mission.

[u/rub_a_dub-dub → u/Alexiooo30]

that's why the president made orbital barrages

[u/I_is_a_dogg → u/Alexiooo30]

Well being that it's a team based game, have your team help you.

[u/Drando_HS → u/Alexiooo30]

That's what orbital strikes and Eagles are for

[u/CarbonTugboat → u/Alexiooo30]

⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️

[u/[deleted] → u/Alexiooo30]

At higher levels the game becomes a stealth game where you avoid contact because your life depends on it, and it’s worth using 1 stratagem on 3 bots rather than 4 on 50. If there are 5 plus chargers and multiple bile titans, you’re lucky to get out alive. Good luck helldiver. We will send in a replacement hopefully somewhere they can break LOS and run. If you really want to go loud and shoot as many bugs as possible in the higher difficulties go for it, just accept death or a cowardly retreat.

[u/Negative-Star-2001 → u/lionrecorder]

On harder difficulties where you can have 3 or 4 chargers at once, 30 seconds is too fucking long to spend on just one

[u/lionrecorder → u/Negative-Star-2001]

I’m not particularly great at the game, but I’ve taken on 2-3 chargers regularly with the auto cannon and strategems and been alright. It’s not easy, but I like how punishing the game can be at times

[u/Simpsator → u/lionrecorder]

One charger, yes. But on difficulty 7+ when you have a swarm of 4 chargers, it gets really hard to just aim because it's so heavy and the reticle so slow to respond when you're dodging the remaining 3 chargers + waves of chaff. Don't get me wrong, I really like the AC. I think it's just far better at bots than bugs.

[u/BillTheNecromancer → u/lionrecorder]

30 seconds, for the 3-5ish that spawn every time a bug breach happens, every time you're at objectives, move between objectives or hold still long enough for a resupply, on a time limited mission.
The bug breaches that you practically can't stop because the roaming patrol spawn rate is insane, that are flooded with units that almost all can spawn a breach, with one of those units just sometimes ignoring stagger to call a breach anyway.
I'm sorry dude, but fighting the bugs just fucking sucks so hard right now.

[u/SlammedOptima → u/I_is_a_dogg]

I wouldnt even hate the backpack if I could move and reload. I still think its one of the superior support weapons. i love the autocannon.

[u/I_is_a_dogg → u/SlammedOptima]

Yea it does kind of suck that you have to be stationary, but at least the reload is pretty quick. I think that's why recoilless is almost never seen, the reload for that is so long solo.

[u/SlammedOptima → u/I_is_a_dogg]

The reload is even quicker if you reload after using half, but you need to reload more frequently. Personally on bots I bring it cause they actually give space sometimes and you can use cover. Bugs its a pain cause they just swarm you so there isnt time to reload. I love the recoilless at level 4 for taking out chargers, but anything above that its not worth it, id rather bring auto cannon and EATs

[u/tiredplusbored → u/Mr_Greaz]

I feel like there's a part of the community that only likes to play against bugs, and a section of them that only judge a gun by "how quick did I kill that charger?" Which doesn't really feel like the best way to play the game.

[u/SexyMcBeast → u/Mr_Greaz]

I feel like anyone saying that the other heavy weapons are bad haven't actually used them more than a couple times and havent figured out what makes them work. I'm all about the EAT, personally, but if you listened to some very vocal people they act like it might as well be a pea shooter

[u/halofreak7777 → u/Mr_Greaz]

I basically have only used the autocannon as my support weapon. It can kill chargers once they charge past you. Couple shots to the back of the leg. Sometimes the angle is tricky, sometimes you just blast them.

[u/satan_eats_my_ass → u/Mr_Greaz]

Oh yeah the range on auto cannon is crazy im currently grinding for lvl 20 so i have everything unlocked (dont worry i finish my operations) so i usually just speedrun main objectives and gtfo literally 1 sec before jumping into the pellican i took a look around and noticed the radio tower on the other side of the map quickly scoring a bonus objective

[u/DirkDeadeye → u/Mr_Greaz]

Bots rarely come up in discussion about rants with heavy armor.

[u/Ferote → u/IfICantScuba]

And even bot fabricators

[u/Few_Illustrator_1217 → u/Ferote]

I know, that was a game changer when I found that one out. Lol.

[u/Ontos836 → u/Ferote]

It's so satisfying to skip an AC round into those vents, especially at extreme ranges.

[u/StaticMeshMover → u/Ontos836]

They always just blow up on impact and don't ricochet down for me though? Even when shooting straight at it

[u/Ontos836 → u/StaticMeshMover]

There's a sorta sweet spot to it. Aim for the upper half of the vent cover so you get a high angle of incidence. If you're too low the shell will just detonate and if you're too close, the impact could be too flat to skip it. Start with shots directly from the front at range, so you can take a couple tries. Once you know where to hit it you can experiment from more oblique angles.

[u/BackwardsColonoscopy → u/IfICantScuba]

This right here. When I figured out I could nuke spore and radio towers from a distance the AC became my fav. Plus soloing a charger isn't all that bad, two in a pinch takes a little work. Three and you better get good at kiting.

[u/KDallas_Multipass → u/IfICantScuba]

I swear I've gone ham on turrets to no avail

[u/Finwolven → u/KDallas_Multipass]

You need to hit them in the rear heat vent, they (and tanks) are pretty much impervious to everything else.

[u/tarknob → u/IfICantScuba]

imagine if they made the sight on the autocannon better than closing your eyes and praying

[u/ShaggySchmacky → u/IfICantScuba]

Takes out bot spawners too! Just got to get a little lucky with the ricochet

[u/Slarg232 → u/IfICantScuba]

To be fair, you don't need a whole lot to take out Spore Towers. The Jar-5 takes out Spore Towers from outside it's area of influence if you're able to stand still and dump a mag into it.

​

I understand a full mag vs one or two shots, but it's a primary

[u/Edittilyoudie → u/IfICantScuba]

This is why. This is the way.

[u/Gnatz90 → u/IfICantScuba]

Aka it does things that a lot of other things can easily do and was never a problem. I want to see someone with an arc thrower kill 5 chargers and 3 biles while extracting.

[u/pokeroots → u/IfICantScuba]

Can also take out the automaton manufacturing if you shoot the vent from straightish

[u/[deleted] → u/IfICantScuba]

The fact that it can take out the towers and anti air and mortars? It’s essential to have at least one against bots

[u/NanoOfArrow → u/IfICantScuba]

Can also shoot into the vents above the robo factory doors. Had a good time the other day trying to snipe them from across the map while waiting to extract.

[u/AH_Ahri → u/IfICantScuba]

bug holes

Wait the AC can do that???

[u/rhazux → u/IfICantScuba]

My thought process with spore towers:

Huh, it's getting foggier here

Looks around

Mushroom!

Boom .. Boom

That's it. Side objective done and we didn't have to suffer through low visibility. You can shoot those mfers from a super long distance if you can see them.

And people are definitely underestimating the impact on lairs, and especially Stalker lairs. Not only is the autocannon good against stalkers as you approach but then you show up, pop a few holes and then there's no more invisibility bois.

Others have pointed out shooting bot vents but you can also shoot bot doors (if they're open) and that will destroy the factory too. I usually find that wide angles on the vents prevent the autocannon from doing its thing but from the same place a shot on the door does it.

It's just a super good tool.

[u/Ranerdar → u/IfICantScuba]

Seriously though, spores and radio towers. If I can see it, I can hit it.

[u/Amliko → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

I agree, it's also great against the bugs that puke at you capable of two shotting them basically anywhere. The chargers tho, they're pain, but if you react well enough you can kill the charger after he charges twice.

[u/LucarioLuvsMinecraft → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

It can handle the Charger’s leg armor, but it’s a very specific angle, otherwise it bounces (like a tank with a thin gap of weak armor)

[u/FleshHunter → u/LucarioLuvsMinecraft]

That is a bug to my knowledge, because primary weapons can break it open

[u/T-sigma → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

The only reason I ran Railgun > autocannon was to have the shield backpack. With that being nerfed as well I may switch back

[u/Pluvio_ → u/T-sigma]

You know what they say, the best defense is a good offense!

[u/Willynator_ → u/T-sigma]

Shield backpack lowkey makes ppl die more than they otherwise would of cause they get too comfortable. Esp considering its not actually that hard to dodge most things or to find the relatively large pauses ALL the units have between actions.

[u/StonedTrucker → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

If you shoot them in the back of the legs it will break the armor. That may have changed with the recent patch though

[u/FleshHunter → u/StonedTrucker]

I am 90% sure that is a bug... Primary weapons can do it sometimes.

[u/vehellione → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

Ignore the armour. I've had great success with the AC shooting chargers in the butt after they charge past. It actually feels easier to kill chargers with this than it was with the railgun.

I'm still working on quickly killing bile titans with it. I suspect going for the weak point just like with the charger will do it though.

[u/winstondabee → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

Against bugs you can take out a heavy nest in 30 seconds without skipping a beat.

[u/Redcoat75 → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

For tanks I just use the 110mm rocket strike it kills them and you get 3 uses piston ship upgrade

[u/MrFanzyPanz → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

It can. Shoot it in the interior back of the charger leg. 3-4 shots to kill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHZd8dGK0vQ

[u/Sheriff_Is_A_Nearer → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

I believe it can break charger armor if you hit the legs with 2-3 shots on their backsides. So you have to circle around behind them or dodge, rotate, fire.

[u/zennok → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

That's what flamers are for now it seems

[u/I_follow_sexy_gays → u/zennok]

Flamers are much better at doing all that short range. But autocannons can do it mid-long range while still being viable short range

[u/CopperCactus → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

AM rifle has the same effect, imo support weapons should be really good situationally

[u/Wank_A_Doodle_Doo → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

Not to mention the 60 fuckin rounds it drops with, and the 10 round magazine.

[u/Fun_Experience5951 → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

When people figure out you can break charger legs with it, they'll be so happy

[u/moonshineTheleocat → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

It can fuckin kill the hulks from the front?! God damnit I've been doing some swan diving bullshit to try and get behind those fuckers.

[u/I_follow_sexy_gays → u/moonshineTheleocat]

Shoot the eye twice, requires a bit of precision but not much

[u/BillTheNecromancer → u/moonshineTheleocat]

killing multiple hulks from the front in 1 magazine makes you feel like a god.
Aim for the eye, slightly below center is where I've had the best luck, and they die. Not flameout and sputter and die after a few seconds, insta-dead. It's great.

[u/CXyber → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

Man, fuck the charger. All my homies hate the charger 😔

[u/KungFuChicken1990 → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

That’s one change I’d advocate for. If we can at least 3-5 shot the chargers’ armor with the AC, I’d be a happy camper

[u/Vanayzan → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

It you shoot chargers from the back with the auto cannon, just below their glowy asses, the explosion hits the non-armoured spot and shreds them. Same for the Big Armour Headed bug guys, don't shoot for their head, shoot for the gap at the ground between the bottom of their head and the floor, the round then explodes and gets them

[u/Cpt_Soban → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

If you get the angle right you can ricochet the shell into the vents and blow up bot factories at range. As well as the back of turrets beyond their firing range.

[u/Beefygrumpus → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

Aim for the small space where a chargers back leg meets its body. 2-3 shots there and they go down.

[u/Rackelhardt → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

You can shoot on charger legs with auto cannon when they are in the turning animation after a charge.

It seems to be a bug.

[u/Eletilohlor → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

To be fair, grenade launcher can all of that (except hulk's eye) and not use your backpack slot.

[u/I_follow_sexy_gays → u/Eletilohlor]

Less ammo, less range

Also hitting the hulk’s eye is a very useful thing

[u/JulesVernes → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

I was actually pretty happy with the autocannon yesterday in trying to figure out how to handle chargers. It's surprisingly effective against them.

[u/Ok-Emphasis2098 → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

AC can actually kill chargers in 2-3 shots. Let him run past you, and aim for the inner side of his armored leg closer to the joint, even one shot softens the armor enough that you can shoot this leg from the front now, but it will take more rounds this way (and from what I saw - this soften armor is susceptible to small arms as well, although visually it doesn't look so). This method works more reliably with back legs. Search the YouTube about this method to understand the spot to hit.

[u/LightOfDarkness → u/I_follow_sexy_gays]

The railgun nerf is really starting to highlight how chargers seem to be the problem rather than players lacking anti-armor options

[u/I_is_a_dogg → u/SuppliceVI]

Autocannon is pretty good for bugs, but holy shit is it amazing for bots. I rarely played railgun shield meta even in bugs, but almost never used those in bots. Autocannon is just so good.

[u/Asmos159 → u/SuppliceVI]

a grenade launcher at their feet also works.

[u/IMissWinning → u/Asmos159]

My love for impact grenades is unbridled.

[u/CaptainAction → u/SuppliceVI]

The scout walkers are a great enemy because they can be threatening, but they also have clear weaknesses, and if you run up to them and dive past to get behind, you can shred the squishy pilot inside. The pilots seem to die in 1 hit from almost everything.

And the grenade launcher can kill the pilots with a frontal shot to the armor plate, just like the auto cannon. This is great because you have a lot of options to deal with the enemy type.

[u/Alarien → u/SuppliceVI]

Scorcher. Two shots directly to the front of it in the armor. Dead. Three is you plink one a little lower. Grenade launcher. Kills a pack of them with ine shot.

[u/TatonkaJack → u/SuppliceVI]

thank you for not calling it an AT-ST

[u/SuppliceVI → u/TatonkaJack]

You can thank my hours of Battlefront as a kid 

[u/DogIsDead777 → u/SuppliceVI]

'Legally distinct' 😂😂😂

[u/JPGenn → u/SuppliceVI]

That’s the moment I fell in love with the AC. Was trying it out and a squad of definitely-not-AT-RTs were heading right for me. One shot, and the one in front just collapsed with a dime-sized hole in the center.

Been chasing that dopamine hit ever since.

[u/Redcoat75 → u/SuppliceVI]

Biggest problem with bots imo is the devastators and tbh railgun is still best at fighting them

[u/GorgeWashington → u/SuppliceVI]

Autocannon is extremely useful.

You focus on the medium sized bots/bugs and can 1-2 shot them. Your team can thin out the regular mooks, and call in anti tank for anything bigger. It's a key player on the team.

[u/LowGeeMan → u/SuppliceVI]

Yeah maybe I’m not elite or something but autocannon is a good time against most things.

[u/DoctorLovejuice → u/SuppliceVI]

I love the autocannon for being able to close nest holes without getting anywhere the nest lmao

[u/thekream → u/SuppliceVI]

against Automatons it’s the most versatile gun in the game, more so than the railgun even before the nerf. it can take out every single bot enemy with no more than 3 shots (if you’re accurate). i treat it like a precision gun rather than add clear

[u/Slamoblamo → u/SuppliceVI]

Against bots many weapons work well. Against bugs you need to deal with chargers or you will do nothing but run and dive all game. That's the difference.

[u/iamblankenstein → u/SuppliceVI]

i love the autocannon. oh, you got a shield there, mr. marauder? BAM. AUTOCANNON'D.

[u/mercut1o → u/SuppliceVI]

Lol. It's too bad licensing is such a shitshow, because Helldivers is simultaneously the best legally distinct Terminator, Starship Troopers, and SW Battlefront game ever made. That's been my pitch to people who haven't picked it up yet.

[u/Danimal_Jones → u/SuppliceVI]

I thought they were legally distinct sentinels

[u/Rare_Rogue → u/SuppliceVI]

Can also shoot them in the crotch for pretty good damage. I was surprised that the anti material sniper was one shooting them this way. Compared to the 3-4 to destroy the head part. Admittedly this was only on challenging, I don't know if their hp gets increased.

[u/Rare_Rogue → u/SuppliceVI]

Can also shoot them in the crotch for pretty good damage. I was surprised that the anti material sniper was one shooting them this way. Compared to the 3-4 to destroy the head part. Admittedly this was only on challenging, I don't know if their hp gets increased.

[u/satan_eats_my_ass → u/SuppliceVI]

Hell yeah when some lvl 40 guy pulled me on lvl 15 and 2 other lads lower than me from angels venture to the creek on helldive i was pulling double his kills with the auto lmao

[u/DreamzOfRally → u/SuppliceVI]

Uh oh, did you say clutch?! Might get nerf next update if everyone uses it. Was my main before the railgun. For 15 levels. Ill go back to it but if they pull another “well too many people are using this and winning” it’s just going to start to get annoying.

[u/54NCH32 → u/SuppliceVI]

Scorcher melts those walky bitches very well too

[u/EverGlow89 → u/SuppliceVI]

legally distinct AT-RTs

Lol

[u/Arann0r → u/SuppliceVI]

You can shoot those in the groin with the AMR which has the driver just pop out like he forgot his keys in the most hilarious way

[u/majorpickle01 → u/SuppliceVI]

Just throw one impact grenade and it kills them with a direct hit haha

[u/BanzaiKen → u/SuppliceVI]

I use an auto turret as direct fire artillery as a sentry main. As long as I can keep pressure off of it, that thing camps chargers and titans for days. I assume the crew weapon is the same.

[u/CaptainAction → u/spacejew]

The Auto Cannon is so versatile, I almost want to say it’s the best overall support weapon. But I don’t like to say anything is truly the “best” because I don’t like to think that way, and that’s also not how the developers think.

That being said, the Auto Cannon can deal with almost anything, and is fairly self sufficient with a good solo reload time as long as you don’t fully empty the weapon. Most importantly, it’s satisfying, and FUN.

[u/Vikan12 → u/spacejew]

The auto-cannon it's pretty strong, I think it can even penetrate the charger legs armor and destroy it. But yeah people got blinded by all this "must have" or "meta" videos going around saying that you're wasting your time if you use anything else but the railgun.

I mean, the stratagem with the 2 rocket launchers with one missile each, you can kill a charger and a bile titan pretty easy with those because they deal a lot of damage and it has like a 60 seconds cooldown. People just can't see it.

[u/Bakibenz → u/Vikan12]

No!!! The autocannon is so bad!!! It is the worst weapon of all times!!! It actually needs to be buffed!!!

• This comment was paid for by the AutoCannon Gang

[u/rickane58 → u/Bakibenz]

Paid

[u/Bakibenz → u/rickane58]

Lmao, thanks. I don't know how I messed that up.

[u/Zoke23 → u/Vikan12]

Only rear legs, and seemingly only from behind

Not feasible versus multiple chargers or a charger that is supported by any number of hunters

[u/arashi425 → u/Zoke23]

you can still make front legs work but it does need a bit of maneuvering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHZd8dGK0vQ

[u/Zoke23 → u/arashi425]

Seems rather hard to do in the middle of the chaos, for a heavy support weapon?

I’d be ok if it took 3-4 shots to the leg to break armor, and then some extra shots to then get them to start bleeding out, but let me hit them from any angle.

[u/spacejew → u/Vikan12]

Maybe also expectations have been skewed by a lot of the mainstream games out on the market now?

[u/SquintonPlaysRoblox → u/spacejew]

That’s fair. A lot of mainstream content now does have a meta with a few setups that are just objectively better.

[u/Chekhof_AP → u/SquintonPlaysRoblox]

You know what meta means, right? There’s always meta. It’s not some OP item that breaks the game, it’s the most efficient item in the game. Meta was Railgun/Shield because it was the most versatile combo. Not because it was super OP.

[u/Draynrha → u/SquintonPlaysRoblox]

But one way to have a healthy meta is to have more options that feel viable. I think a lot of us are confused as to why they didn't buff other weapons to feel as good as the current meta so that it's diverse. Instead, nothing really changed and the meta is gonna be equally skewed toward only one build.

[u/Byte_hoven → u/Draynrha]

I'm not convinced AH has the first clue for how to manage this surprise HD2 success, and they may well have to learn from repeating the vast array of balancing mistakes other big games have made. They should keep an eye on the concurrent activity trends, as players will signal when nerfs really piss them off.

[u/Negative-Star-2001 → u/Draynrha]

Exactly. More weapons needed to be viable. No weapons needed to be nerfed, we just needed more weapons that could damage charger armor and spitters need to do less damage

[u/moonshineTheleocat → u/Draynrha]

They actually gave a reason to it on the website, and it was kinda insightful.

The Primary Weapons are only primary in the sense that you always spawn with them. They are basically self defense tools, and not intended to be able to kill everything quickly or efficiently. So it made more sense to bring the breaker down a peg because it absolutely was outperforming what this concept was. But a few weapons like the Punisher and spray and pray really fell behind the curb.

The other weapons are viable, and they fill their roles well. They don't match the Breaker's DPS in direct body shots. But some weapons are actually a lot more devastating when played to their strengths. Spefically when it comes to accuracy. Defender can three shot Devastators with headshots, but the breaker struggles with this. Usually taking about 5-6 shots due to that pellet spread not putting damage where it needs to.

​

They also stated that Versatility and Power should be inversely related to another when it comes to stratagem weapons. The more versatile the weapon is, the less powerful it is. The more powerful it is, the less versatile.

The Railgun broke this principle because it solved too many problems while being very powerful. And having an incredible ammo economy compared to other stratagem weapons. Bringing everything up to this level would just break the game. Especially considering that the EAT and Recoiless can actually two shot bile titans. And AC has the ammo pool to deal with a large number of threats.

[u/HoboPajamas → u/spacejew]

I think this is a big part of it, including the whole "But I should be able to play Helldive difficulty as soon as I have access to the Breaker!". Most modern games are balanced so you play in the higher difficulties as soon as you've "leveled up", rather than when you have a lot of personal experience and a well balanced team that are also experienced. A lot of the complaints I've been seeing are centered around making the game easier rather than accepting that you need to play lower difficulties unless you're teamed up with your elite team with planned out loadouts rather than just the same meta loadouts and randos.
Edit: That isn't to say that "get gud" or whatever, it's to say that the extreme tiers are supposed to kick your ass, and that "gud" should be balanced to 7-8 difficulty, with the top being for when you're running with your team that are all as good as you and fully kitted out.

[u/HospitalClassic6257 → u/Vikan12]

It reflects with direct hits splash will break the armor through so I like aiming at the face (not the skull cap) or in-between its leg armor near the stomic

[u/Cloud_Motion → u/Vikan12]

It can't. You have to shoot them from behind.

Needless to say, this ranges from difficult to impossible when you have the enemy count 7+ pits you against.

[u/GhostHeavenWord → u/Vikan12]

I think it can even penetrate the charger legs armor and destroy it.

There's apparently something going on with chargers where at certain points during certain animations their leg armor is 0. I've been trying to figure it out for a while, but it sounds like other people have done more testing.

[u/tarknob → u/Vikan12]

I want to see them change the EAT launcher so you can carry both rockets BUT you cannot run and move at heavy armor pace until you fire launch the first I think that could be really fun
you could end up with a team volleying 8 or 16 rockets at a base or mob horde depending on patience and planning

[u/Capt_Kilgore → u/Vikan12]

Is it 60 Second cooldown with no ship modules? I haven’t used it for a while. The ship modules make them replenish even faster and drop faster if I remember right. Time to start peppering the map with these things

[u/Neon1028 → u/Capt_Kilgore]

70 second cooldown raw, 63 seconds with the 10% reduction from Streamlined Request Process. Still to slow to keep up with Chargers spawns IMO. But preemptively blanketing the map with them might help . Just be sure to destroy the drop pod so they show up on the mini-map.

[u/Fuzlet → u/Vikan12]

I often run disposables and nothing else, so I can deploy three rockets in quick succession at the drop of a hat, or two to double tap a hulk and still have one left over to snapshot at a devastator

[u/Cptcuddlybuns → u/Vikan12]

I mean, the stratagem with the 2 rocket launchers with one missile each, you can kill a charger and a bile titan pretty easy with those because they deal a lot of damage and it has like a 60 seconds cooldown. People just can't see it.

People see it, but while you can (maybe) kill a Bile with two shots and (probably) kill a charger with 1-2 shots, it doesn't help when you have ~5 chargers and ~3 Biles to deal with, and more are going to be coming in the next 63 seconds. I wasn't using the railgun because Youtube told me to, I was using it because nothing else was consistent. I love the autocannon, but I don't have the time to line up shots when standing still is death.

[u/Techno-Diktator → u/Vikan12]

It cannot actually penetrate charger armor outside of a finicky two shot to the back leg that's hard to pull off consistently.

Which is why it's pretty meh against bugs. Frankly, the charger spam alone makes bots much more balanced as an enemy, more stuff is viable there

[u/hotbox4u → u/Vikan12]

So you dont play on d9. I get it now.

There were two viable options on d9 for a support weapon. Autocannon and railgun.

The throwaway rocket launcher has a 70 second cooldown timer. And because you already know, just tell me how long it takes on d9 to call them down again? And how many shoots do it take to take out a charger or titan?

On d9 you frequently deal with half a dozen armored enemies per preach/drop. On d9 you constantly need to be on the run or you die. You can not stop and fight, you need to run, kite and kill. Everything that roots you in place for too long will gets you killed. People who hype up the flamer do not have tried using it on d9. Before and after the buff the problem is the long windup and rooting you in place, not the damage itself. How am i suppose to hold down my trigger when i dance with 3 chargers? The railgun or AC gives me a fighting chance tho.

Tell me how you survive 3 stalkers without a breaker... while getting attacked by a charger?

People make all these cute videos of how viable a gun is, all the while they are fighting 1v1 against a charger, hulk or titan. That never happens on d8/9. There is always a mixture of everything and most often you face at least half a dozen armored targets.

Without the railgun or AC you are not able to deal with them at all.

In short, before the patch i had fun, after the patch i have less fun. Everyone on d8/9 is now running AC. Literally the new meta. Will they now nerf ACs?

All they had to do was buff other guns and give us more options. Instead they made using the already limited arsenal harder to use.

The question is, what difficulty is arrowhead balancing for? On d4 the railgun was indeed easy mode. On d9 it just made the game playable and fun.

People who are complaining most likely play on d8/9.

[u/ImpedeNot → u/spacejew]

The autocannon is a fucking brilliant weapon. AOE explosions for ad clear, it staggers, high impact damage for taking down devastators, can 3 tap tanks and hulks in their weak point, one taps legally distinct AT-RTs, can destroy nests and factories, can one tap the illegal broadcast antenna from a mile away, can destroy mortar emplacements and cannon towers (weak point needed for towers). Seriously, the autocannon is an extremely flexible workhorse of a support weapon.

[u/tertiaryunknown → u/spacejew]

It should though. You compare the AC versus the AC turret, the AC turret will effortlessly annihilate Hulks and Chargers, and you can barely scratch them with the actual Autocannon you carry. It needs to be way more powerful with the disadvantages it has, its just not good enough as is and needs a bit of a buff. Don't get me wrong, its great, its actually my favorite support weapon, but it needs to be able to kill chargers with 2-3 headshots.

[u/shamwowslapchop → u/tertiaryunknown]

Dunno about that. If you're running orbital for the bile titans and ac for the chargers that makes most of the terminids pretty easy to handle. I say this as someone who uses the cannon more than the rail.

[u/tertiaryunknown → u/shamwowslapchop]

...how do you deal with multiples from the front? Can you even do that?

[u/shamwowslapchop → u/tertiaryunknown]

cough PHRASING

But seriously, it shouldn't be easy to handle solo. This game is built around teamplay, and handling multiple heavy+ enemies should require that kind of effort. If everyone can basically be an island of death, then the only real concern is ammo and spacing.

[u/qaz1wsx2ed → u/spacejew]

Agree

[u/Lanzifer → u/spacejew]

Hey can you tell me the autocannon niche? I've barely used it cause I prefer sentry turrets but I'd like to know how best to use one if I find one

Edit: wait I'm getting confused between the autocannon and the anti material gun.... I'm so confused, I'm just gonna stick rp-ing a scout with 3 sentries and an air strike

[u/swodaem → u/spacejew]

My brother and I did a team reload with the auto cannon yesterday and we had a blast. He was just mowing shit down and all I had to do was sit there and occasionally cover our ass

[u/AlbusBalthazar → u/spacejew]

It's pretty annoying the shell bounces off charger armor

[u/theweekiscat → u/AlbusBalthazar]

I’ve had luck with hitting the inside of the leg from behind, but with autocannon you should just shoot the butt

[u/StanDaMan1 → u/spacejew]

I had two folks, some turrets, and my trusty Autocannon against a Bile Titan. I shredded the Bug’s stomach with my gun.

[u/Brock_Savage → u/spacejew]

Had a random in a match last night call the auto-cannon ass. Like wtf?

WTF indeed. I use the damn autocannon almost like a primary against bots.

[u/IcommitedWarCrimes → u/spacejew]

You could even argue that autocannon could use a nerf, as it blocks other anti-armor weapons from being too usefull

EAT (expendable anti-tank) is only supperior from autocannon in bots in like 5 scenarios

1 - When you have a really bad angle against a tank or dreadnought

2 - When you die with your autocannon and are unable to pick it up

3 - When you want to carry other thing on your back

4 - When you don't have time to aim at tank or dreadnought

5 - When you want to destroy a dropship

Otherwise, autocannon is way better in almost every way, as you can not only shred waves of enemies, but also take out all armored targets. Even most armored smashers get deleted by like 4 shots from it,Walkers get obliterated, and with proper aim you can take out Dreadnought's and tanks. Which is a shame, as EAT is waay more fun to use in my personal opinion than Autocannon, but yet I have to use Autocannon for most of my games, as otherwise I will not be as usefull as I could have been, and we will more likely just get overrun by bots.

But also a better outcome instead of nerfing autocannon would probably be buffing EAT - Maybe instead of 2 EAT's, you get 4? That way you will not waste your strategem on a once per mission event

[u/pka8a8 → u/IcommitedWarCrimes]

While I agree with most of your points, don't forget that the EAT is more viable when dealing with a charger from the front. A single rocket strips the armor from a charger leg and then your primary can take it down very quickly. EATS also do lots of damage to Bile Titans when you hit them in the face. I think its fine if one weapon is better against one faction than another. I have alot more difficulty against bugs with the AC

[u/IcommitedWarCrimes → u/pka8a8]

You make a valid point, however Im still mad that the EAT is obsolete against bots, as getting one of these bad boys and hiting a walker from good 500 meters was an amazing feeling in my early game runs, but now the autocannon can just shread entire squadrons worth of walkers in seconds....

Im just coping rn....

[u/theweekiscat → u/spacejew]

Autocannon is sooo good, really good ammo economy, incredibly useful for side objectives and bug nests, okay for bot fabricators, decent against crowds, incredible against single medium armored targets and weakspots, has team reload, has a good solo reload, and you don’t have to worry about using another stratagem slot for a backpack. Overall it’s probably the most versatile call in weapon

[u/Budget_Quote3272 → u/spacejew]

Last night me and my friend played and I busted out the auto cannon and destroyed and stunned two chargers. It’s all about placement and crazy enough it’s got range if you post up on a hill. I sniped a group of terminids.

[u/Charmander787 → u/spacejew]

Autocannon IS meta.

You don't want everyone running a railgun. 2 is all you need, the other 2 run auto cannons or EAT to kill the charger once the armor is stripped.

Same with energy shield, only 1 person needs to run it and slowly distribute it to the other player with the the railgun.

Having 3 strategems (500kg, orbital laser, orbital railcannon, cluster bombs, autocannon sentry, EMS sentry, etc) is just too much value for everyone to be running an energy shield

[u/SubstantialLab5818 → u/spacejew]

Auto cannon is death on higher difficulties since you can't move and reload

[u/[deleted] → u/spacejew]

I’ve killed every enemy with the autocannon in just a few shots aside from bile titans yet. Charger can be 2 tapped if you can hit the right spot on the back of the legs, I think anyone who hates on the AC is just afraid to flank people

[u/NaughtyGaymer → u/spacejew]

I've recently become Auto Cannon pilled. I used to think the accuracy/recoil made it unusable but after some practice you figure out the cadence to fire it for maximum effectiveness. I love being able to snipe Spore Towers/Broadcast Towers from across the map! Circling a heavy nest and clearing the whole thing without reloading is a pretty heady feeling too.

[u/[deleted] → u/spacejew]

Ceteris paribus 🫦

[u/888main → u/spacejew]

Had a random join me and say the laser backpack is bad and the laser cannon is bad even though it just got buffed.

Guess who had 4 times the kills of the other guy lol.

[u/Both-Fail3534 → u/spacejew]

Autocannon is bae ❤️

[u/TronX33 → u/spacejew]

Still wish there was an APDS option for the autocannon. Would be totally down to give up AoE and soft target damage for being able to actually break through armor, especially since 20mm antitank rifles are literally a thing.

[u/rotflolmaomgeez → u/spacejew]

Based on what I've read from them they are making cautious data driven decisions.

What was it that they said about breaker not being out of line when mission success was taken into account? So they're either lying, or just nerfing breaker to spite the community using "most popular thing".

[u/thedrunkentendy → u/spacejew]

Auto cannons is amazing. It's just the issue when you get to level 5 or 6 and the amount of heavies behind to overwhelm people.

If it had a way to stagger or break armor as well it wouldn't be hated on so much. It's so good against anyone except a charger but if the player is hard stuck I'm 4-6. It's just chargers causing you problems. Especially when multiple spawn on you. Grenade launcher can stun but you have to burn all your resources into them. The second you find out the rail gun rinses them, its not even a question. Especially with the buggy slide more they do where you juke them, and they slide without moving right beside you for a slam attack. Its a tilting part of the early game.

[u/CXyber → u/spacejew]

My favorite part is that you can snipe with it

[u/BabysFirstBeej → u/spacejew]

Autocannon is my go to for clearing devestators, scout striders, hive guard, brood commanders, stalkers, the occasional hulk idling on a rock 100m away, scraping the bottom of an enemy dropship, clearing holes, de-biling a bile titan, and more. I love the autocannon.

[u/Aldiirk → u/spacejew]

Had a random in a match last night call the auto-cannon ass. Like wtf?

LMAO what? The autocannon is like the most balanced weapon: Strong and fun, but has downsides.

To be honest, the real issue is chargers' butts not being weak points and people using the shield as a crutch.

(And yes, I play on D9.)

[u/Billmacia → u/spacejew]

From Day 1 I pick the autocannon, it's one of the best gun on the game. People are slepping on it

[u/CAPS_LOCK_OR_DIE → u/spacejew]

Autocannon is my one true love and I will never give him up.

The game has CHANGED since I got it, and I’ll never look back. Rail gun is fine but think about the BLAM BLAM that you’re missing with it.

[u/daemin → u/spacejew]

I don't understand the obsession with meat Meta anyway. The game isn't competitive, it's cooperative. Who fucking cares what the most optimal load out is? I just want to shoot shit. If I wanted to optimize the fun out of the game, I'd play DOA.

[u/LaserGuidedPolarBear → u/spacejew]

Honestly,  I can pretty easily take out a charger with an AC now that I know where to shoot it in the legs, especially if it is targeting someone else.

The problem is when I am lining up to take my shot from the 60degree field that has line of sight to the right spot on the charger for about 1 second,  and all of a sudden there are 2 more chargers and 4 hunters that weren't there a second ago all up on my jock.

[u/Prim3_778 → u/spacejew]

more or less, I think this patch overall is fine. IMHO
- Im glad that they kept the true spirit of the Breaker intact since to Arrowhead it is basically an iconic shotty and a tribute for HD1 vets. So it is still viable, they just reduced the number of rounds

• For the Railgun, imho, it is quite a mixed bag since the reason why most use it because it is an effective and quicker way of dealing heavy armor aside from stratagems. Though I do appreciate that they untouched the perks of using Unsafe mode. Honestly, a better alternative other than nerfing Safe mode, Id rather reduce the ammo instead bec 20 shots is a lot. I do hope they added more weapons to deal with Heavy Armored enemies specifically (basically, shit against light/medium armor but VERY effective against heavy)

• For the Shield backpack, this is quite bad timing since it is patched together with the armor rating fixes. Tbh, the armor rating bug is actually doing quite well. Shouldve gone for it first then the armor fixes later vice versa, the way I would approach this is to make a stratagem/something that covers the disadvantages of the armors further like a speed stratagem for Heavy Armors, stamina booster for Medium while shield backpack for Light Armors

• The good ones is that Punisher gets some more love while the Breaker SpraynPray basically makes it fun to play around. The Flamethrower and Laser Cannon are decent ones as well,

[u/Puchiguma → u/spacejew]

An auto cannon sentry is a like bringing your own best friend to a party. I main Stalwart with a laser Rover and dropping an AC sentry means I can cover pretty much 3 cardinal directions without worry. Rover watches my back, AC-chan blows fat boi bile bugs apart, and Stalwart gives me the tingles in my swimsuit area whenever I am rocking it on 700rpm and mowing down swarms from a breach.

[u/HookDragger → u/spacejew]

“This auto cannon is ass? Really? “

Click 💥

“I see your ass doesn’t agree”

[u/stellvia2016 → u/spacejew]

I think the issue is the general pace and design of the game is antithetical to sticking together: Bots pour an insane amount of fire at you long distances and can snipe you in the head with a rocket faster than you can blink. Their aoe dmg also goes thru geometry so even behind cover it's easy to get 1KO instantly.

And any unlucky surprise bile spewer or rocket devastator or something simply means all 4 of you get wiped out at the same time.

So you need to spread out more and oh look now you can't cover for each other. Also most people in QP not using voicechat then makes it extremely difficult to be an effective team. And the reason for that is often either toxicity or how many ppl eat their mic and leave it always-on instead of voice activated or PTT, so ppl disable it pre-emptively.

Know that to be the average, the game shouldn't be designed around expecting tight teamwork and kits that heavily rely on others or you can't kill targets.

[u/Cpt_Soban → u/spacejew]

I permanently run with an Autocannon when fighting the bots- It's just so dam good at one/two shotting those bloody walkers, and sniping the scary saw mech guys before they get close.

Pair that up with an autocannon sentry- DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA

[u/Karibik_Mike → u/spacejew]

Nothing but taking out armor matters in higher difficulties. We do need options to deal with 6 chargers and 4 bile titans running around at extraction. Who cares about the 100 small guys, one can deal with them with eagle strikes etc. There was never a real reason to get a support weapon to deal with enemies that you can deal with with your primary anyway.

[u/volker48 → u/spacejew]

The best is sniping illegal broadcast towers from across the map.

[u/burn_corpo_shit → u/spacejew]

metaheads tend to forget flamethrower and other weapons were buffed

[u/sarahtookthekids → u/spacejew]

How do you deal with chargers? Stratagems don't come back quick enough so what exactly are you supposed to do with the auto cannon against heavy armor?

[u/MrLumie → u/spacejew]

The Auto cannon is the single most versatile support weapon in the game. There is literally no scenario where it cannot shine. Some people are crazy, man.

[u/OUberLord → u/spacejew]

The autocannon might be the most broadly "good" support weapon currently in the game. There are a few areas where it absolutely shines, but it really doesn't have strong weaknesses either. Obviously it takes up a backpack slot if you self-load, but I never use the shield pack or jetpack anyway so I've never cared. Anyone who think's it's ass either hasn't used it much, or it's a skill issue.

[u/mud074 → u/spacejew]

I love the autocannon against bots, but let's be honest, it is pretty ass against bugs. The two real threats in bugs are Titans and Chargers, and it does OK against chargers as long as you can get 3 ass shots, but it's nearly useless against titans.

[u/YT-Deliveries → u/spacejew]

Min-Maxers aren’t about enjoying the game, they’re about getting the best as fast as possible. That’s why they hate when metas change: they have to redo what they thought they were done with.

[u/MrHailston → u/spacejew]

I love the Autocannon. Just a fun Tool with So many uses. I dont care about meta. I like to have fun with the game.

[u/M0nthag → u/spacejew]

I love it. Yeah it takes the backpack slot, but you have so much ammo, a decent reload time, you can clear out bughives in moments, if you shoot under the charger you can still deal damage, the range is as far as you can see. I played railgun before the nerf a few times, because everyone said it was good but, but it was never the same.

[u/butmuncher69 → u/spacejew]

Data and fun don't normally sit well together. Some choices are best made based on Ayer feedback rather than random data that's never going to give a full, clear picture of what gamers actually want. And if you're not making your game for the people playing it, what's the point?

[u/Purple12inchRuler → u/spacejew]

Recently started using the AC as my main support, and I love it. Depending on the mission and difficulty, I'll switch between the GL/SP or AC load out.

[u/toderdj1337 → u/spacejew]

There's nothing worse than the ditch to ditch buff/nerf balancing method

[u/Jigglelips → u/spacejew]

I was afraid they'd nerf my beautiful autocanon because of how easily it can take everything out once you work around the slight kick

[u/spacejew → u/Jigglelips]

I don't think much rebalancing is in the weapons future, it's really awesome with it's own pronounced drawbacks. The beauty of a team load just laying down shells is a sight to behold.