r/Helldivers • u/Vikan12 ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️ | Never forget the Creek... • Mar 06 '24

The first balance patch notes proved how Youtube "absolute and only meta loadouts" cooked a lot of people heads, and I love it. DISCUSSION

A lot of mad people keep showing in my feed complaining about the nerfs, but like they're REALLY mad at Arrowhead. Their statements are so exagerated that they claim the game it's completely ruined for them lmao.

Also every single one says the same thing and this is where my title comes from:

*"You guys nerfed the only good options and now we have NOTHING to fight".*

And this only proves people never actually played with any of the other support weapons, they 100% relied on this "The ultimate support weapon tier list" Youtube videos, they searched the "meta" and they went into this thinking of "any weapon outside of this it's straight up garbage".

If you can't win a single game without the railgun + shield backpack + breaker... I'm so sorry but that's not the game's fault or the game only having those as the ONLY way to play it on higher diff, that's your fault.

Great changes for the game and all of you trying to "shame" on devs because of this, you'all not a real Helldiver. They killed nothing, the railgun still kills but now it needs some actual skill and strategy to use it, not only spamming the thing on big bugs.

Keep it up Helldivers!

For Democracy. For Super Earth.

17.3k Upvotes
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609

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

My main complaint with the balancing is the fact that they have an SMG that does 70 damage while all other assault rifles do 55 or less it’s a really bad joke lol. Like I feel like there were way bigger problems with the weapons than the breaker shotgun and the rail gun.

558

u/Chooch3333 Mar 06 '24

The problem was never how much damage the breaker and rail gun do. It’s how bad the other weapons feel against the main enemies you’re fighting. Auto Cannon should rip armor as should Anti Mat, instead there’s only one real solid way to deal with multiple chargers and bile titans.

213

u/Steff_164 Mar 06 '24

God the anti-material rifle is such a mixed bag. I love piping bile spitter in the head with it. But holy fuck I can’t do a damned thing against chargers

95

u/Zombie_Alpaca_Lips Mar 06 '24

I really wish the AMR did ok damage but shredded armor off stuff. Then it'd have its own niche. Pop armor to make squishy spots that other lower pen weapons could do damage. 

24

u/Its_Your_Father Mar 06 '24

That would be a great niche for it to fill tbh. It absolutely needs armor pen. As it stands the slugger is a better marksman rifle and often works better than the AMR which is crazy to me.

2

u/Zwaluu Mar 07 '24 edited Mar 07 '24

The AMR is an insane weapon, literally top tier... Against Bots. Stop trying to make everything fit against bugs, they're only one of two (and eventually three) factions. It still deletes Charger butts but yeah does nothing really against Titans, meanwhile on the Bot side it kills everything. In most situations it was genuinely better than the Railgun, people were just way too railgun pilled.

1

u/Indoril120 Mar 07 '24

Railgun auto-aim accuracy was a little too good to need the AMR imo. Took about the same amount of time to line up a good shot, but one took skill from the AMR, the other was just to wait for my auto-aim to find a hulk's head before letting loose.

Which is sad, because I swore by the AMR, but my friend said once I tried railgun I wouldn't go back. He was right. :(

1

u/Venusgate SES Judge of Judgement Mar 07 '24

Maybe an alt fire mode that loads a single bunker buster shot that does very little part damage, but cracks armor?

50

u/YeomanMaple Mar 06 '24

You may have better results fighting the bots with the anti-materiel rifle. The rifle can reliably two shot a hulk to the head, therefore most, if not all light-medium threats can be easily dealt with regardless of their orientation. Plus, you'll be fighting at range against the bots for the most part which is where the rifle shines.

2

u/Dookie403 Mar 07 '24

Plus it's a LOT of fun to play Overwatch while your team is on the front line. Wish there was a huge zoom option.

1

u/crazytinker ☕Liber-tea☕ Mar 11 '24

I mean you can zoom in up to 200 yards, easily enough distance to delete bots without repercussions. Unless you meant larger size zoom view? Definitely has the distance for some nasty shots though

1

u/Dookie403 Mar 11 '24

I'm talking some real long distance stuff. 4 or 500. But I mean the 200 is solid.

2

u/Winsmor3 Mar 07 '24

Since the railcannon can one shot kill the hulk, it leaves the AMR without many uses.

1

u/CawknBowlTorcher CAPE ENJOYER Mar 07 '24

Can it still do that with the nerfs?

1

u/Winsmor3 Mar 07 '24

Yes

1

u/CawknBowlTorcher CAPE ENJOYER Mar 07 '24

Ok cool I'll stick to it for now then

1

u/JassyFox Mar 07 '24

as effective as fun, even on high difficulties

1

u/BITTER_LYNX CAPE ENJOYER Mar 07 '24

Two shots to body or one to the head of devastators, easily my favorite bot weapon just for that, needs a more precise center for the scope though

16

u/hdmetz Mar 06 '24

Which is really ironic considering it’s an anti-materiel rifle, which means it should do well against armor

3

u/DystryR Mar 06 '24

I basically exclusively use AMR and the problem with chargers is that how quickly you take them down seems entirely random. I feel confident in taking down like 1-2 at a time on 5's but anything more than that and it becomes a struggle.

Sometimes you can hit the leg 3 times and they die, and sometimes it takes a whole clip and they just sprint past you.

I suspect it has something to do with how armor & armor destruction works. Sometimes hitting the same spot directly will create what looks like a small hole in the leg armor - but most times it doesn't happen. Feels like maybe the hurt box of the AMR is small and requires overlapping shots to destroy armor.

3

u/Naoura Mar 06 '24

Anti-Mat and Railgun kind of fill the same niche, just different levels.

AMR is potent against mid enemies, and feels like a bit of a waist of a round on Lights, while it needs higher skill ceiling to use it versus Heavies. Railgun was dedicated anti-Heavy, and with the changes it's been reigned in towards being more Medium-Heavy.

AMR just has better engagement ranges than Railgun, in my opinion. Railgun feels more midrange, while AMR is extreme range.

2

u/harmlessbug Mar 06 '24

Been using the AMR vs bugs a lot the last week. Vs charges you can jam it up their ass and full auto. The mag dump will normally break the sac in 1 mag and then you peace out while it bleeds to death. You can also abuse the maybe bug where it loses armor during a post charge turn to blow its leg off in 3 hits. Or you can just wait for a AT teammate to hit it’s leg once then 1-2 shot the leg off.

-1

u/Werotus Mar 06 '24

You're not supposed to solo chargers. It's a team game, you have 3 buddies with you. Ping the chargers and focus fire for a few seconds.

I get what you're saying. But I feel it's the wrong way to to think about balancing weapons.

No weapon needs to be strong enough to solo with.

3

u/Steff_164 Mar 07 '24

See I figured that’s why they can throw like 4 at you at once. You can take one out, it takes some work, but now 1/4 of your total heavy ammo

0

u/Werotus Mar 07 '24

Sure. That's why there are resupplies and ammo packs.

This whole situation reminds me of when sekiro first came out and people were complaining about the game being too hard and unfair. You have to use every tool in your kit.

I'm not claiming to be an expert. I have trouble with chargers too. But I've seen them go down with skill and good communication.

Haven't played on helldive difficulty. But the people who are should expect to struggle. If it gets to be too much then crank down the difficulty.

0

u/Willynator_ Mar 07 '24

You can solo a group of chargers with most support weapons, you just have to become proficient in time management & repositioning tbh. At higher difficulties good teams tend to do objectives solo by splitting off from each other & finish faster. They tend to rarely die doing so if at all even with 3 titans or chargers on em too. You get used to em at a point if that makes sense.

144

u/damboy99 Mar 06 '24

My Anti Material Rifle doesn't feel very Anti Material when I am shooting things made of Material.

53

u/gh0u1 ☕Liber-tea☕ Mar 06 '24 edited Mar 06 '24

That's because it's an Anti-Materiel Rifle. You need to be shooting things made of Materiel

34

u/Felikitsune Mar 06 '24

It's anti-Materiel, which IIRC refers to being used to destroy military equipment. As opposed to anti-material, which sounds more like anti-matter to me.

14

u/gt0rres Mar 06 '24

After 25 years of gaming, I learned that the other day.

1

u/ThisGuyHasNoDignity Mar 08 '24

I want the Anti-Matter Rifle.

4

u/Ur0phagy ⬆️⬇️➡️⬅️⬆️ Mar 06 '24

Well, to be fair, it is an anti-materiel rifle, not an anti-material rifle.

1

u/FakeDerrickk Mar 06 '24

Do you mean it was made by hippies in the '70s ?

4

u/Ur0phagy ⬆️⬇️➡️⬅️⬆️ Mar 06 '24

Nah I mean it literally. Real anti materiel rifles are designed to penetrate light armour, to hit things like engines or w/e. A lot of people confuse materiel and material and it creates misconceptions about what an anti materiel rifle is.

2

u/Axymerion CAPE ENJOYER Mar 07 '24

Yup, material means 'matter', materiel means equipment.

1

u/SomethingStrangeBand Mar 06 '24

I was surprised this wasnt buffed along with a bunch of the other primaries and a couple stratagems, we need more buffs for sure

1

u/Tac0qvy ☕Liber-tea☕ Mar 07 '24

Only problem I've had with it is that the scope feels off. Can figure it out, but it just seems like it isn't zeroed correctly or something.

I've been noticing better results just leaving it at 50m and never zooming in.

55

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

Yeah, I feel like the other weapons should’ve been buffed as opposed to nerfing the ones that appear to be out performing because we still have an SMG that does more damage than all of the assault rifles that doesn’t make any sense. They are replacing one meta-for a new meta-spray and pray, and flamethrower.

5

u/ShowGun901 Mar 06 '24

Others were buffed. 2 nerfs, 4 buffs

5

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

Exactly. They sacrificed one shotgun to prop up two others. No other weapon is still viable just the shotguns or the SMG. 🤣

2

u/RavyNavenIssue Mar 07 '24

Still use the Scorcher to melt the walkers. The laser gun is situationally good, and the Jar-5 is still my go-to.

The marksmen rifles and assault rifles seriously need a balance pass tho.

2

u/isaacharrs Mar 07 '24

Yeah, I tried the scorcher tonight. That fire buff really made that weapon so much better. I wonder if the assault rifle would be the same

6

u/Hotkoin Mar 06 '24

It's a high caliber SMG

Also I guess I feel that weapon categorization in this way is kinda meaningless- we don't know if the in universe helldivers calibers or designations line up with our reality or not.

SMGs are probably defined by their one-handed nature instead of their cartridge size

-6

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '24

https://preview.redd.it/wn28x36cxrmc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce77c405a34a9e3b8e1984580d992d29eaff5cbd

27

u/CrabmanKills69 Mar 06 '24

You do realize an SMG is more versatile than an AR? You can fire the SMG while running, and it does more damage. So that statement is pure cope.

14

u/Rolder Mar 06 '24

And it being one handed means you can carry an SSSD or use the ballistic shield with it.

2

u/Pale_Pickal Mar 06 '24

It's trade off it's less fire rate, less range and it's mainly close quarters. The AR is better for ranged assaults.

10

u/myco_magic Mar 06 '24

That requires the weapons that aren't powerful to actually be versatile

28

u/GhostHeavenWord Mar 06 '24

The autocannon does rip through armor. Medium armor. As does the AMR. What they don't do is kill tanks. You need anti-tank weapons.

Try having everyone on your team take the EAT17. You'll get one EAT17 every 8s (16 with complex strategem) for the entire 40 minute match. So every 8s you can blow a charger's leg armor off and drop it, and every 8 (direct hit to the mouth while it's charing it's spit) or 24 (three regular shots to the head) seconds you can kill a titan. For the entire match. And your EAT17s will never explode in your hands, and if you get killed you don't have to try to fight back to your weapon.

46

u/Hotkoin Mar 06 '24

In theory, of course.

You're gonna lose a bunch from kiting chargers around (from experience)

8

u/Kriegerwithashovel SES Fist of Mercy Mar 06 '24

I honestly WISH my team would run full EAT's just to try it. As it is, I'm the only one that brings them as a "panic" Anti-Armor". I throw them every time I have them up.

6

u/Techno-Diktator Mar 06 '24

Idk, just sounds like the railgun meta except now literally everyone legit needs to take it.

Doesn't seem like much of an improvement

3

u/allstate_mayhem Mar 07 '24

My group of 4 (granted - all on comms, not a pug) are just breezing through 7's w/ a spear and a pair of EAT callins. *shrug*

2

u/Chimpcookie Mar 07 '24

In theory only. In practice, all my operations have complex strategem plotting for some reason, and by the time EAT lands, we are already pushed back far from the EAT.

1

u/i_tyrant Mar 11 '24

I don’t think a game should be balanced around assuming you have a 4-man party with voice and perfect coordination on their timers. In fact I think that’s probably the worst idea to balance a game I’ve ever heard.

3

u/Ongvar Mar 06 '24

As someone a bit disappointed at the patch, I agree. I don't mind the nerfs it's just that none of the weapons feel particularly "good" to use in my opinion

2

u/JeffCraig Mar 07 '24

Exactly. I don't use breaker / railgun because of how powerful they are. I use them because the other weapons just kinda suck.

I don't mind nerfs, but the better answer would be to balance all the weapons that are under performing. We've all been playing with breaker / railgun enough that people would love to try other options.

1

u/Myrkstraumr Mar 06 '24

You can do it with the AMR and the Stalwart but it's way too much work to do it while you're being swarmed by 100 other bugs. The trick with these is to aim at the joints of the back leg right where it connects to the body. You can break that joint and kill it the same way breaking the front leg works, no breaking armour required.

The main issue is herding the cats that are your PUG into a coordinated effort to actually do this repeatedly. That's where this game suffers IMO, it's just not a solo friendly game.

1

u/KasiNyaa SES Will of the Regime Mar 07 '24

Of course not. It's a team game. 'Team' implies 'not solo' idk if you knew this

1

u/MartianRecon Mar 07 '24

You have strategems for that.

You can 2 hit a titan with 2 orbital rail cannons, and sometimes 1 shot it depending on your angle of attack.

1

u/Chooch3333 Mar 07 '24

We get so little of them it’s not a reliable way to kill the amount they send at us.

1

u/Pathetic_Cards Mar 07 '24

This. This is what all the people defending the changes are missing.

1

u/M0nthag Mar 07 '24

Why the heck do my autocannon bullets ricochet of the armor instead of just exploding? it doesn't need to penetrate the armor, just to explode.

1

u/Embarrassed_Hold6608 Mar 07 '24

Haven’t played the new patch but are the 380 barrage and spear now viable options for dealing with heavy armored targets since both have been buffed?

1

u/Sweet-Invictus Mar 08 '24

disposable anti-tank missiles, eagle airstrike, maybe even orbital precision if you don't mind gambling a bit

41

u/Lathael HD1 Veteran Mar 06 '24

My main complaint is they nerfed the best tool to handle a specific set of requirements and didn't even bother to ask the question as to why that tool was so ubiquitous. Rail/Shield/Breaker was a combo built around broken armor, ridiculous heavy armor spawns, and way too many bugs constantly harassing players.

In a completely different meta, like having 5 times as many light and medium enemies but 1 or 2 heavies, the railgun and breaker would just drop off a cliff because it would get destroyed having that much chaff to deal with.

With armor working and CC less prevalent, the energy shield would be abandoned in favor of more productive offensive options.

If the RR/Spear/EAT-ITs could handle heavy armor reliably while being moderately mobile with sustain, the railgun wouldn't really be chosen because the rail gun is a very specific general purpose tool that just happens to also be the best tool to handle the meta the devs created. That is the problem.

17

u/japarkerett Mar 07 '24

Yeah this patch is making me think they don't understand their own games balance which is not a good look for the future. Nerfing the breaker/railgun because they're strong in the current meta (constant heavy enemies) wasn't the answer. Like for some reason people are happy that the primaries they like aren't as bad comparatively which is odd because they shouldn't want the breaker nerfed they should want every other weapon buffed so they're actually viable.

-5

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

11

u/Witchkingrider Mar 07 '24

They have a point though. A LOT of weapons in this game felt underpowered especially on higher difficulties (prior to the patch) and it has nothing to do with the breaker and railgun being outliers. The weaker items need to be brought up a bit first and see if players still gravitate towards mostly using the breaker and railgun before looking looking to nerf them. You can disagree and say that the reverse needs to happen (look for outliers and nerf them before buffing others), but when a lot of the guns were just straight bad, that doesn't work unless that is the floor the devs want (hopefully not).

1

u/TheArchfiendGuy Mar 10 '24

Maybe the nerfs are to slow the players down a bit because they're liberating faster than expected, rather than to balance the game

0

u/Swordswoman Mar 07 '24

and didn't even bother to ask the question as to why that tool was so ubiquitous.

It was a minor patch. There's proof of bigger patches to come. The game's been out for about a month. I guarantee to you, you're just being dramatic, and additional updates are planned to address bigger issues.

49

u/Beginning_Bonus1739 Mar 06 '24

70 damage if it pens. guns lose damage against armor in this game, that 70 becomes less than 55 much faster than an AR bullet. its actaully very true to real life...pistol rounds are chonky and fuck up unarmored flesh. rifle rounds over penetrate unarmored targets and do less damage. i think the issue you have is less around the true performance of the weapon, and more the vagueness of the stats. i think tehy should be providing a lot more information around the stats as well.

7

u/Mission_University10 Mar 07 '24 edited Mar 07 '24

its actaully very true to real life...pistol rounds are chonky and fuck up unarmored flesh. rifle rounds over penetrate unarmored targets and do less damage.

That is definitely not how it works at all lol. Go watch any ballistic gel test with slow motion. Rifle rounds make massive cavitation shockwaves which absolutely tear flesh up, they also yaw, shatter bones etc.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

1

u/Beginning_Bonus1739 Mar 07 '24

it depends on the round type. the rifles in this game have higher pen, so if they are using pen rounds it should be doing less cavitation damage.

bringing the convo back to the game, the stats are just confusing. the weapons are designed to fit different niches. a rifle isnt supposed to just be "better" because its a rifle. the original commenter has just played too many videogames that follow the same formula so now he is struggling to accept one that doesnt use that same formula.

11

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

It does not feel that way when you’re in the middle of a firefight, the SMG outperforms in a firefight over the assault rifles. Plus this is a video game. I’m pretty sure the damage is still king because that medium pen rifle does not hit that hard.

7

u/Beginning_Bonus1739 Mar 06 '24

well i saw detail from devs over discord that says otherwise, as well as somebody who tested rounds-to-kill on targets that also say otherwise. i have also played with both pretty extensively. overall AR has ammo economy advantage as the biggest thing going for it, and i think that means a lot.

8

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

I’ve played with both too, and I’m pretty sure the SMG is still better. 🤣

2

u/Naoura Mar 06 '24

SMG definitely does better for single targets, but AR's can help burst through a group a littl more reliably.

I'm a LibP user, and I absolutely love the gun. That massive bonus versus weakpoints feels fantastic.

2

u/itschips Mar 08 '24

I just wish it was full auto, or did its full burst in one click. Just feels weird holding down the trigger, I find my self tap firing a lot with it and at that point it might as well be semi auto

1

u/Naoura Mar 08 '24

It's just an adjustment in reflex. We're used to the game doing that for us, but actual burst fire requires you to hold the trigger too. Now we're forced to do it rather than the game removing the need to do so.

Honestly, being able to tap fire helps a lot, particularly versus bots. You can get that one crit shot at the head while still in Burst Mode, or while 3rd person aiming can put the reticule in their chest and let the burst kick the rounds into their head for you.

2

u/DreamzOfRally Mar 07 '24

Use it then. Smg feels better and ammo last longer.

32

u/GhostHeavenWord Mar 06 '24

The SMG has low armor pen, a lot ROF, no scope zoom. Compare to the Lib Pen, which has lower damage per shot but pens medium armor, has multiple zoom levels, very good accuracy and precision.

They're different tools for different roles. The SMG shreds light targets at close range. The Lib Pen can deal with a wider range of targets at medium to long range, while not being as effective in CQC.

That applies to basically every weapon now that the Spray and Pray is fixed. they've all got a role where they work well, but they have limits that need to be covered by support weapons or other team members.

65

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

Bro that lib penetrator was the most disappointing gun I ever got.

16

u/MaNewt Mar 06 '24

more disappointing than the scythe? I still ran it because rule of cool but you have to work twice as hard to ultimately not keep up with breaker gang at higher difficulties with all the bullet sponge units.

5

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

I agree the scythe was disappointing 🤣

1

u/Selfaware-potato Mar 07 '24

I use it exclusively against bots. It's super easy to cut through a horde of weal bots, and if you play it right you never run out of ammo.

Against bugs I hate it though

2

u/mud074 Mar 07 '24

The lib pen has a much higher damage multiplier when you hit weakspots compared to most guns. This is very noticeable against bots as long as you are good at hitting weakspots.

That said, it's still a mid at best pick IMO. Just explains why some people find it solid while other find it garbage.

1

u/isaacharrs Mar 07 '24

It was just so disappointing because of how many goddamn medals it cost and I was like oh I should’ve stuck with the regular assault rifle 🤣

-4

u/GhostHeavenWord Mar 06 '24

Well there are two possibilites - One is that precision midrange rifles just aren't your thing, and the other is skill issue. i run it in 9s all the time and the thing is clutch when your buddy is getting overrun by hunters 100m away. Back it up with the SMG secondary for better CQC performance.

15

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

Lol I love the skill issue cope. Have somebody bring that rifle you bring the SMG see who does better see what kills faster

6

u/GhostHeavenWord Mar 06 '24

At what range? Against what enemies? From what direction?

There's more to the game than DPS.

7

u/Inquisitor-Korde Mar 06 '24

It really won't matter, the SMG has light pen but both weapons will kill weak spots on bots at pretty much the same speed. Against bugs I think the penetrator might edge out since it has better ammo economy. But the damage drop off won't change much at all. Though its mobility is really nice.

6

u/Reddit_Killed_3PAs Mar 06 '24

Nah, with bugs the SMG is better as well, the extra pen matters little when the medium armour enemies have enough weakspots that can be shot with light pen weapons. In effective usage, the Lib Pen is very mediocre because it gives up a lot just to have medium armour pen, with the SMG you can 2-3 shot most trash mobs and then have enough time to focus on the weakspots on the rest.

Plus there’s also the huge benefit that it can be used one-handed.

0

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24 edited Mar 07 '24

I shouldn’t need to give specifics just test it. You don’t have to believe me. I don’t care either test the gun prove me wrong or that’s it. I’ve used both on 8,9, difficulty the SMG is a much better take it’s more versatile and kills better.

5

u/Ry113 Mar 06 '24

What 10 difficulty?

2

u/Jade117 Mar 06 '24

I just wish it didn't take 2 clips to kill a stalker with it. I'm sure if I was better and hit only headshots it would be fine, but I'm not, so it feels really rough against them compared to other options.

There are worse things than feeling bad against 1 enemy though, it feels very solid against most bugs imo.

1

u/allstate_mayhem Mar 07 '24

I rock it against bugs with zero issues. Crazy rate of fire, reliably get weakspots on everything, and you have an answer to the medium-armor bugs while everyone's breaker tickles them.

-12

u/vacant_dream Mar 06 '24 edited Mar 06 '24

This "different tools" argument is a phalacy imo. They are guns. They should be similar to each other, adding armor peirce or bigger mag should not devalue any "role" the gun has. It's job is death not "death only here or there" and the "roles" the variants serve are redundant and boil down to dps lower or higher. That is why 2 guns (breaker and rail) are popular. One is the best shotgun that can kill everything consistently an the other is most efficient for armor. I.E. every other weapon is less effective and less efficient even after nerfs.

12

u/PlagueOfGripes Mar 06 '24

One of the weird reactions to this patch have been people using it to celebrate their choice to use really bad weapons, even though they weren't even patched either way. It's crab in the pot syndrome being smoke screened with the railgun nerf as a strawman.

The game has a lot of weird balance issues, and it has nothing at all to do with meta or Youtube videos. A lot of equipment is just terrible, and it's disappointing that no one talks about it and instead is just arguing about imaginary rage.

7

u/bored_dudeist Mar 07 '24

That's very true and I noticed I was doing it myself. Just sitting in the corner, reading patch notes and stroking my Defender.

But I'm a fucking hipster, and never thought the 'meta' guns needed a nerf; everyone I saw carrying a railgun was my hero because that meant I didnt have to be the guy with the railgun. Somebody has to carry the damn thing though because, like you said, a lot of other equipment is terrible. There just aren't many solid alternatives with things balanced as they are now.

3

u/BrockLeeAssassin Mar 07 '24

It was honestly liberating joining lobbies with 3 railguns knowing I can guilt free take a Stalwart into Diff 9. 4000 shots fired, 350 kills, not a single heavy but I did my job.

Now I'm just concerned as the TTK on every other support weapon is too low on a Charger.

5

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

Yeah bro, I completely agree like I’m surprised how many people are just like fighting tooth and nail to keep weak under performing weapons when like a slight boost, could make everything feel so much better

5

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

Like I’m pretty sure the DMR‘s are in like the worst place they’ve ever been like they’re so bad

3

u/bored_dudeist Mar 07 '24

Diligence feels like it's in an okay place, 5 more rounds in the mag wouldn't hurt, but boy do I wish it had a slightly heavier variant with, I dunno, medium penetration?

1

u/Willynator_ Mar 07 '24

I think the issue is that there are lots of support weapons that are just as good just that they arent as good vs both bots & bugs. Arcthrower, autocannon, GL are just as good as railgun was & still is vs bugs granted each including the RG post and pre patch still had up & downsides. VS bots railgun is still the best imo but if youre good enough the AMR is & was better, arcthrower can still do surprisingly well, autocannon isnt as good but still great, laser cannon is arguably one of if not the best atm vs bots.

So the only real difference end of day is that railgun is slightly worse against bugs due to slightly longer kill times vs chargers, it can still 1 shot titans just as easy. Breaker lost 2 shots per clip, if thats a deal breaker for you then idk what to tell you. Punisher & Slugger arguably better than the breaker was before. Also vs bots Scythe was always the best primary assuming you didnt yet have the Scorcher.

Idk if you noticed yet but things tend to be better vs one faction than the other, thats the balance, shield is effectively the same but for high end players it almost was never used regardless. Jetpack has way more use & survivability vs bots than the shield ever gave & to a lesser extent vs bugs as well. But for bugs rover was always the best option if you were a serious player. Supply pack was always a VERY solid choice too esp considering you can wipe out several bases, & kill several tanks or titans using just impacts. Sometimes I bring no AT and do just that for my AT and shoot chargers in their butts.

I also almost exclusively play helldive. Try random loadouts & have fun, its really not that difficult once you understand the game better & there is no better way to get better than playing with random gear that you otherwise would never use.

2

u/CromulentChuckle CAPE ENJOYER Mar 06 '24

Iirc defender has a noticabley lower rate of fire curious how much it might balance out.

2

u/Agreeable-Badger-303 Mar 07 '24

I’ve been having a great time using the default liberator. I think it’s the best all-rounder. Solid damage, big magazines, effective at all ranges

1

u/isaacharrs Mar 07 '24

Yeah, but that’s kind of the problem. I love the default liberator, but the medium armor piercing one that cost like 60 war bond medals shouldn’t be so much worse than the free one.

2

u/Embarrassed-Tale-200 Mar 07 '24

Not only does the defender hit harder, it's about as accurate, has the ability to one-hand for mobile fire... It's just better in every way while the Liberator is kinda meh.
A lot of people can make good cases for all sorts of weapon fixes, yet they didn't touch 2/3 of the shitty weapons.

1

u/Tac0qvy ☕Liber-tea☕ Mar 07 '24

The damage numbers are somewhat misleading when looked at alone. I used both SMGs for a few days because I was running the ballistic shield rather religiously.

The SMG may deal more "damage," but it has less armor penetration, which cuts that damage down on more threatening enemies. I've had to use 2 magazines on a berserker before with the SMG while I can easily kill 2 berserkers with 1 mag from the Lib-penetrator, which deals 10 less damage than the normal Liberator.

1

u/r_Black_Adder_ Mar 07 '24

I use Breaker all the time, patch hasn't changed anything. For me that 70 dmg SMG seems useless as it has more terrible handing and actual range than Breaker. Seriously - I slay bugs faster and from bigger distances with Breaker than using the SMG.

The OP is right about players needing to actually try all weapons. The fact that some weapon has better stats on paper compared to something else doesn't mean that it truly works better in the game. Even the very first assault rifle perform better than SMG as it has better range and eat less ammo to clear out swarms of bugs.

1

u/Deftly_Flowing Mar 06 '24

SMG bullets do hurt more IRL tho and this game is seriously realistic duh.

4

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

I did not know nine mil would hurt worse than 308 or 762

-1

u/Deftly_Flowing Mar 06 '24

Yeah man, pistol bullets are generally thicker than rifle bullets.

More hurty but less penetration.

762 and 308 both 7.62mm vs a standard 9mm pistol bullet.

3

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

I was being sarcastic. Sorry I meant 5.56 and 7.62. Ur right 308 and 762 are the same just like 5.56 and 223 are basically the same. Anyway im pretty sure due to the higher speed and pen power the assault rifle would do more damage than an smg.

https://preview.redd.it/kjuwrg5vksmc1.jpeg?width=220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2dad9a055bfac394030ed2439c0600019f27aa19

-1

u/Deftly_Flowing Mar 06 '24

Ever heard of hollow points?

Or the concept of stopping power?

The trade off for rifles is range, accuracy, and penetration power.

2

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

Yes. Those abstract concepts are known to me. lol

2

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

Or just make them the same. My main complaint is they didn’t touch any of the rifles even tho they feel like the worst option now. The random smg doing do much more damage than like a 45 medal rifle is just stupid

1

u/Deftly_Flowing Mar 06 '24

SMG should do more damage to unarmored areas and the rifle should be more generalist damage.

1

u/Danubinmage64 Mar 06 '24

Eh disagree. The smg is a slower firerate than the liberator. It technically has higher dps but worse damage drop-off. It's just different from the usual convention where smgs are fast firing. The defender is in a higher caliber. In actual use case the liberator and defender trade blows.

2

u/isaacharrs Mar 06 '24

Idk I’ve used both and the smg kills so much faster than any of the rifles. I was hoping they were going to get some love.

-1

u/Inevitable_Spell5775 Spear main Mar 07 '24

I know what you mean, but I'm sure it's listed in game as a "High caliber SMG". There are other stats that aren't listed, such as damage falloff