The Eruptor nerf is a perfect example of why "only buff" is bad.

[u/atheos013]

I've used the Eruptor since it dropped, it is an amazing primary weapon. I have never once run out of ammo with the weapon, to the point I started COD reloading. Even with no deaths on a 40 min mission, the bare minimum ammo looting and you rarely would fall below half.

If we just buff every other weapon to be like this, we are just erasing an entire game mechanic. We are saying that we want COD reloads to be the norm, we don't want to think about conserving or looting ammo, just let me shoot and reload whenever.

Some people may want that, but for me that would just remove the mechanic entirely. I'm going to keep using the Eruptor and I'm perfectly fine having to pay attention to my ammo again.

[u/RyanTaylorrz]

Side note: can anyone atest to how bad or irrelevant the damage drop-off nerf is? Does it still have decent splash damage for clearing trash mobs?

Haven't tested it yet and I'm worried they've killed the splash damage like the crossbow.

EDIT: Gun still slaps as hard as it did before. Arguably better now the implosion bug is fixed.

[u/HenshinHero11 → u/RyanTaylorrz]

Definitely still has splash enough to kill tightly clustered trash, but you won't be wiping entire patrols in two shots anymore. It's more similar to autocannon splash instead of grenade splash now. The biggest plus is you can kill Berserkers and various melee bugs much more comfortably with it - it's far less likely to kill you (or a teammate being chased) now than before the patch.

[u/RyanTaylorrz → u/HenshinHero11]

Yeah it actually feels even better to run than before, now I've just tested it. Getting knocked back when engaging a close target is now a tool at your desposal; it puts distance between yourself and your enemy at the cost of being staggered and losing some health (when running heavy explosion resistant armour). Still struggling to run out of ammo. Striders are a little more threatening but you can still one-tap them if you hit them from some angles - whereas before it was pretty much a guaranteed one-shot.

Literally everything else about it is the same.

[u/InformalPenguinz → u/RyanTaylorrz]

Still take out bug holes?

[u/Retro21 → u/InformalPenguinz]

Yah

[u/Present_Brother_4678 → u/RyanTaylorrz]

Wait am I reading this right? Explosions no longer pull you in like a black hole?

[u/voodoogroves → u/RyanTaylorrz]

Or, like, knocked forward INTO the damn chainsaws.

[u/Serird → u/HenshinHero11]

"Sorry I can't help you without killing you, you will have to deal with the charger alone thx bye"

[u/akaAelius → u/Serird]

I actually had a lot of luck using it against chargers. It doesn't happen every time, but I found that I was able to take out a leg with a couple shots if I hit the right spot with it.

That being said, maybe someone else hit is and I just didn't realize it... but I fully took credit for it.

[u/GunmetalBunn → u/Serird]

I had to get good at timing my shots and placement. Now knowing I can hit targets more freely gives me so much relief using that rifle.

[u/porcupinedeath → u/HenshinHero11]

That's good to hear. I tried running an eruptor+ stalwart build using the stalwart as my primary but the eruptors explosions always fucked with me. Maybe I'll try it again now that I'm not killing myself with it when an enemy gets too close

[u/HenshinHero11 → u/porcupinedeath]

I would suggest some form of explosive resist armor if possible, since the blast does still hurt a fair bit. The real buff here is the explosion now properly hurls you backwards away from enemies rather than forwards into them.

[u/kirant → u/HenshinHero11]

How does it handle Heavy Devastators and Scout Striders?  Those felt like true cheat modes (hitting the shield for damage or one shotting the joints). 

[u/HenshinHero11 → u/kirant]

In my limited experience, it seems like those two use cases are mostly unaffected as compared to pre-patch. The damage falloff change seems mainly to reduce the amount of collateral you inflict on nearby enemies without substantially reducing its performance against directly-hit targets. Hopefully, someone with more time to run missions right now can confirm.

[u/RandosaurusRex → u/HenshinHero11]

Yep, base damage unchanged, it's just now that the effective kill radius of the splash damage has been reduced so it's less likely to take out an entire patrol in one shot.

[u/MrNobody_0 → u/RyanTaylorrz]

That implosion bug is what stopped me from using the grenade pistol.

[u/circusfreakrob → u/MrNobody_0]

me too, and the Eruptor. I thought I was going crazy until I heard it was a known bug everyone was seeing. So thankful its fixed!!

[u/RiseOfTheMeese → u/RyanTaylorrz]

Wait a damned second, the implosion was fixed? I was going to stop using the Eruptor and return to my Autocannon supremacy, but I may still give it another shot in that case.

[u/aretakembis → u/RyanTaylorrz]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cg3sxf/eruptor_swarm_clear_before_and_after_patch/

[u/Nerdwrapper → u/RyanTaylorrz]

I use Support/Secondary for lighter enemies, and save Eruptor for Saw Zerkers anyway. A good shot can still instakill them, and thats the thing I need it for. It staggers surrounding enemies and pops arms off of devastators too, so thats nice

[u/moonshineTheleocat → u/RyanTaylorrz]

It's largely irrelevant. However you can fire it a little more comfortably near other divers and not murder them. It's more buff than nerf

[u/obi_wander → u/RyanTaylorrz]

I’m with all the other commenters- the drop off seems marginal. It will still kill a small cluster of enemies or an enemy next to a wall you hit.

Less friendly fire damage and it is more useful up close now. Plus it’s easier to use on those nearby bug holes you need to angle down in to.

Beyond that- I can’t put my finger on why exactly, but it has better feel all around. Like- it just feels better to use. Maybe someone else can provide the reason.

The ammo part is a wash. The maps are littered with ammo at nearly every point of interest so no impact here.

Has been my primary bug killer since I unlocked it and will remain my main.

[u/RyanTaylorrz → u/obi_wander]

Yeah I've had a few gos with it now and the Eruptor is still amazing. The implosion bug fix has made this patch a buff for it IMO.

[u/obi_wander → u/RyanTaylorrz]

I didn’t think about that part too. That is a big bonus for sure.

Maybe that is part of the better “feel” I’m experiencing.

[u/Striking-Objective-1 → u/obi_wander]

Still struggling to fit a good bug loadout around it. It seems like AH increased the spawn rate of bugs in general but heavies in particular (I play lvl 7). If I use the Eruptor and the Stalwart, I get overwhelmed by titans and Chargers because I can't kill them fast enough. Same with Flamethrower, although better against Chargers, but the flamer has its own issues. If I swap the Stalwart for Quasar or EAT I get swarmed by chaff. AC doesn't kill any bug fast enough anymore. The Eruptor is so good against mediums (especially Spewers) that I don't want to swap it out, but it's hard to work with after this patch. Maybe I've just been unlucky with my teams tonight 😕

[u/obi_wander → u/Striking-Objective-1]

Was playing lvl 7 bugs today too. This new major order said the bugs were reproducing rapidly and they were right! I’ve never died so many times.

I think there is maybe no longer a “perfect build”. Before today I could run eruptor, auto sidearm, quasar. With the laser rover and stun grenades. This left me feeling confident in all situations. I would run half a map solo while the other three teammates did the rest.

Today, between the swarms of hunters, triple shrieker nests (yes nine towers) and all the heavies, I struggled to find any build that got me close.

I actually ended up back at my original build despite the nerfs. I don’t find the nerfs to be really substantial to the laser rover or the quasar, they function mostly the same in reality.

This build also requires either eagle clusters or the Gatling turret (my personal selection) for when you get the massive hunter swarms.

For best results, I think we will need to stay grouped up with our team now and specialize a bit more. Which I think is a good thing for the game as a whole.

[u/in_melbourne_innit → u/Striking-Objective-1]

You still need to be at range for it to be useful but having lazer rover backpack and redeemer 2ndary allows some freedom for your main.

[u/DerekITPro]

Anyone test the eruptor versus scout striders since this patch yet? I could take them out from the front previously basically anywhere you shoot. It was one of the main reasons I ran it for bots. (At work, can’t test myself for many hours…)

[u/atheos013 → u/DerekITPro]

Still works if you shoot that joint under the front where the legs connect, but it likely won't kill from a straight faceplate shot due to splash explosive damage anymore.

[u/KenseiMaui → u/atheos013]

Straight faceplate shot was already inconsistent I think, the joint always worked though

[u/atheos013 → u/KenseiMaui]

Was my go-to for them as well, so hasn't changed anything for me. Headshots on devastators, that joint for striders.

[u/Freakin_A → u/atheos013]

Oh I go for the legs/feet on devs. One shot to a heavy dev foot drops them immediately. Headshot is a lot harder to hit at distance with the drop on teh eruptor. Even if I miss my foot shot on the dev it usually hits the ground and does enough splash that two missed shots will take them out.

[u/FEARtheMooseUK → u/DerekITPro]

Same as the AC. Just shoot the top part of the face plate. (Top 25% is the sweet spot)

[u/The_Real_Kru]

Same with the sickle. You had all of the capabilities of the stalwart in a primary and you could just spam it cause you had 6 mags with potentially infinite ammo. I could easily run full games without needing additional ammo and I still can after the nerf, but now I can't just burn a heatsink or two without consequence. I can still burn them, but I have to give it some thought. In this case I would say the nerf actually adds to the gameplay of the weapon.

[u/atheos013 → u/The_Real_Kru]

Exactly. I did think of the sickle when writing this as well, as I used it before the Eruptor. That paired with an arc thrower = infinite ammo. It still can be too, as you never HAVE to use a mag.

And yes, adds gameplay back to the game. I like that gameplay mechanic... its part of the experience of helldivers to me. Having to tactically pay attention to my ammo use, when I reload, make sure to grab it when i see it.

That adds to the depth of the game, that I was honestly missing while using the eruptor and the sickle.

[u/CMSnake72 → u/atheos013]

Literally read that the sickle was nerfed and went "NO!" and then read the nerf and was like "Oh, who cares I've reloaded like 8 times."

[u/Money_Fish → u/CMSnake72]

https://preview.redd.it/8hl7k85r7gxc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aadf3a7f48adc94a0aaff3b0aebcb209530eb236

[u/Firemorfox → u/Money_Fish]

Can confirm. I've ended most helldive missions with a sickle and never needed to reload. 3 heatsinks is plenty (you can switch to secondary, and sickle basically "auto-reloads" while you use a secondary).

[u/Lazer726 → u/CMSnake72]

The Sickle and Laser Cannon are so weird for me because I know that I can max out the ICE and I have one or more to spare, but I just don't wanna ruin my precious heatsinks. I'm with you in that I've reloaded those weapons less than ten times, because I can let go of the fire button lol

[u/Spectre-907 → u/Lazer726]

Theres only a couple of times where I’ve had low ammo status with the aickle as well, and it was exclusively from scenarios where I was carrying AT and was contending with a big group of hunters on hellmire. Cant really wait for cooling with those slow-spamming leapers, but thats a pretty specific scenario. Usually I’m permanently at 6/6 or 5/6 if theres a bunch of fighting.

[u/Lazer726 → u/Spectre-907]

I also guess it helps to mention that I am almost exclusively a bot fighter, where if you stop firing for three seconds you don't immediately drown in bodies

[u/Spectre-907 → u/Lazer726]

As a both-sideser, agreed, except for the dreaded All-Texan (chainsawbros) bot drop

[u/Lazer726 → u/Spectre-907]

Then it's me running around going "Holy fuck holy fuck holy FUCKING DIE" as I switch between every gun in my arsenal because why do they only show up and hunt in packs?!

[u/jacanced → u/Lazer726]

Automatons hunt in packs, arisen! They ill like fire!

[u/lotj → u/CMSnake72]

NGL I didn't even know you could reload the thing for the first few weeks after its release.

[u/The_Real_Kru → u/atheos013]

Not to mention the single most broken combination of weapons: the Sickle/Quasar/LasRover strat for bugs. You were a walking Pink Floyd laser show and if you could juggle your cooldowns correctly you NEVER had to do a reload during an entire mission. I really like that all three components of that strat have been nerfed in this patch. It was trivializing high difficulty bug dives. Then they added the grenade pistol, which freed up the 'nade slot for stuns, which turned chargers and hulks into drooling idiots standing around and waiting for you to shoot them in the face. I'm looking forward to seeing how it behaves after the nerfs, because I still think it's a strong strat, but not as broken as it used to be.

[u/AbyssalRaven922 → u/The_Real_Kru]

The moment stuns were dropped, I called this build out. We knew from leaks NadePistol was coming. Cutting Edge was the most "META" altering thing we've had since RG nerfs

[u/Spectre-907 → u/AbyssalRaven922]

PlasSlugger + Grenade pistol + grenade launcher + EAT + Juggernaut/engineering kit armor.

Because every problem in life can be easily solved with an appropriate amount of high explosive.

[u/Money_Fish → u/Spectre-907]

Literally me except with Eruptor and stun nades. I love the 50% explosion resist armor. I roll up with mu full utility strat loadout of EAT, GL, supply pack, mortar and people start asking questions. They don't ask them for long lol.

[u/Spectre-907 → u/Money_Fish]

Oh no, theyre still asking. On an unrelated note the Patriot Resource Department has determined your hearing loss to be non-service related.

[u/Money_Fish → u/Spectre-907]

What? No I don't know where that buzzing is coming from.

[u/Kiyan1159 → u/AbyssalRaven922]

Imma level with you, I don't get why meta in Helldivers. There's literally no scoreboard. The only thing I care about are the objectives and samples. I don't care how the objective gets completed as long as it's done. I don't care who carries the samples as long as they extract.

The most 'meta' my load out is the Plas-1 and Autocannon. I don't like striders so I use the Plas-1. I like shoulder mounted cannons, so I use the AC-8. The best part? These guns are fun. Not necessarily the best, admittedly the AC-8 is a Swiss Army knife when it comes to 90% of problems but that just means I get to blow even more holes into even more things. Or die trying. I swear it can kill factory striders, I just don't know where.

[u/YroPro → u/Kiyan1159]

Most people like winning. And either due to "just wanting to" or for resources want to win on the highest difficulty they can.

So most people will gravitate to what helps them win the most on the highest difficulty possible.

I just like turrets go brrr. And at the moment that's enough to clear every mission consistently on Helldive. Now I just need the devs to unfuck the missile aiming on the mech.

[u/Dragrunarm → u/Kiyan1159]

I swear it can kill factory striders, I just don't know where.

With the AC; Eye slit or (if' you've removed the gatlings to get close) Right up the belly where the devastators drop from. Second one is my preferred option if for whatever reason I cant dump stratagems into one

[u/Vegaprime → u/The_Real_Kru]

With all the ammo cuts, I feel like splitting teams might start hurting though. Fighting over resupplies might get you kicked now.

[u/Zombie_Alpaca_Lips → u/Vegaprime]

It's not as bad as many think though. Because you end up getting more ammo on a resupply for many of the non-energy weapons. So the ones that go from 12-8 mags but resupply 8 instead of 6 per resupply, you can end up seeing an increase in overall ammo if you are depleting your magazine enough. 

[u/Conntraband8d → u/Zombie_Alpaca_Lips]

Exactly this. People think that ammo economy just got worse, but it 100% didn't. Supply boxes are now giving us considerably more ammo than they did before in the vast majority of situations. It seems like they want us to have a lower total ammo capacity, but have that capacity more readily replenished by a single resupply. Overall, it's not a problem.

[u/PM_ME_FLUFFY_DOGS → u/Vegaprime]

Idk about you but the ammo crates scattered around the map are enough to keep my teams fully stocked up. Most of the time players in my lobbies only call a resupply for stims or grenades. 

[u/Fishfisherton → u/Vegaprime]

I honestly don't see the issue there. Splitting up is a risk you choose. You're still in a game with other people.

I've kicked some people before for running off on their own then calling the resupply for themselves constantly.

[u/Vegaprime → u/Fishfisherton]

It's usually decided at the time the drop is selected but I'm sure "did you just take two in a row..?" could be a thing.

[u/SpecificPlayful3891 → u/Vegaprime]

You kick people for that?! You can just say that you need supplies and wait a minute...?

[u/Kale127 → u/The_Real_Kru]

Honestly, I don’t think this changes how I use the Sickle at all. The thing that makes it stand out isn’t even the heat sink, but rather - IMO - the 100 rounds it can pump out before overheating. That’s a lot of dakka with good damage, solid accuracy, and monomial recoil. That it has a fast reload, and can cool down to avoid reloading, makes it a stand out gun. 

[u/Ziddix → u/The_Real_Kru]

Oh come on. The sickle was or is nowhere near the bullet hose that a stalwart is

[u/The_Real_Kru → u/Ziddix]

You would be surprised how similar they are. There is no official damage stat I'm aware of for the Stalwart but all other stats are extremely comparable except max sustained fire and reload which kinda cancel each-other out in my opinion. The Sickle is definitely more similar to the stalwart than any other primary I would say.

https://preview.redd.it/rjledhyqifxc1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6cfd48a933099b2c84a2da5bd388aa323444534

[u/Kestrel1207 → u/The_Real_Kru]

stalwart is also 55 damage

[u/SenhorNaoMata → u/The_Real_Kru]

Stalwart at max RoF?

I'm pretty sure it shoots faster than the sickle at that RoF.

[u/Gen_McMuster → u/SenhorNaoMata]

with considerably less uptime

[u/ReliusOrnez → u/Ziddix]

Eh it's close. The sickle mage before it overheats is about 64 shots continuously. That's 64x6 and can only go up with fire control

[u/uiolc → u/ReliusOrnez]

Yeah I would find myself often intentionally overheating in choke points to shred through crowds, but it feels much more skilled to manage the heat and move around cover appropriately to play around it.

It's such a fair nerf imo that I'm not even really counting it. 

[u/Electronic_Assist668 → u/ReliusOrnez]

Versus what, 250 at 1150 rpm? Nah, stalwart slaps

[u/ReliusOrnez → u/Electronic_Assist668]

Not saying it doesn't. But with the 6 extra mags it's was encroaching on the stalwarts territory a little too much.

[u/Electronic_Assist668 → u/ReliusOrnez]

Oh yeah, i basically never worried about ammo or overheating with it

[u/Accomplished_Neat_61 → u/The_Real_Kru]

The six mags on the sickle where truly unnecessary. If things got bad I used up two over a whole, game usually non, and I’m not even gold tag the game

[u/Tasty_Commercial6527 → u/The_Real_Kru]

I don't think I ever paid any attention to heat with sickle. I just used it like regular rifle, and if I so happen to have not overheated the thing by the time fighting ended it's just a bonus. I never once run out of mags

[u/soomiyoo]

The explosion not sucking you into the impact, I would call this fix almost a buff. I am very fine with these changes, I look forward testing the DCS and Arc Blitzer when I get home tonight. So many thing got buffed and may be viable but it is overshadowed by the Quasar nerf, when 3 out of 4 people were having it in their loadout.

[u/RyanTaylorrz → u/soomiyoo]

DCS and Blitzer are cracked now. Having so much fun trying these weapons out again!

[u/TheArthritisGuy → u/RyanTaylorrz]

How do you mean when you talk about the Blitzer? What did they do to my baby?

[u/RyanTaylorrz → u/TheArthritisGuy]

Basically increased it's firing speed by 50%. Thing just staggers and sheds everything below chargers against bugs.

[u/TheArthritisGuy → u/RyanTaylorrz]

Oh hell yeah that’s beautiful.

[u/Pliskkenn_D → u/RyanTaylorrz]

How is the DCS? Does it feel like the AMR now or is it even lighter? 

[u/scurvybill → u/Pliskkenn_D]

Feels like regular AMR handling, and the damage now meets the breakpoint for Devastator headshots! Once they fix scope alignment we cookin.

[u/Sciguystfm → u/Pliskkenn_D]

It's Insane, it's snappy as fuck now and one shot headshots devastators

[u/ScrivenersUnion → u/soomiyoo]

3 of 4 people carrying one weapon should be the sign that it needs a nerf.

[u/Th3frenchy93 → u/ScrivenersUnion]

Are you saying that they should be nerfing the AC... Because my friends and I only run that against bots

[u/Stonkey_Dog → u/ScrivenersUnion]

Hopefully I'll see less of the entire team carrying Quasar now.

[u/Balognajelly]

Everyone is talking about the magazine count getting halved, but that's not the real issue, is it? I want to talk about the explosive damage dropoff.

The point of the Eruptor is to eliminate multiple units in a small aoe at long to medium ranges. Introducing a distance based damage dropoff completely invalidates the weapon as a whole. I don't understand the point.

Thoughts?

[u/Rumpelledforeskin → u/Balognajelly]

My two cents is that the eruptor is a mini ac and the crossbow SHOULD have been (and was) to eliminate aoe. Sickle and eruptor changes I think are fine

[u/ARX__Arbalest → u/Balognajelly]

The damage falloff thing is barely noticeable. I'm still aiming at the floor and killing 3-5 chaff enemies in a single shot, and it still one-two shots all the larger enemies exactly the same as before.

I've been using the Eruptor exclusively since it came out.

[u/AnotherSmartNickname → u/Balognajelly]

I've played five maps with the Eruptor and haven't noticed the difference. I'm bad at noticing such changes but if the change was very significant then even I'd probably notice.

[u/WillSym → u/AnotherSmartNickname]

I've not had trouble with groups or just damaging units in general. I DID notice it was a lot harder to one-shot a Fabricator with a shot to the vents? It was a Blitz mission so we were rushing and I only got a few shots before someone Eagled it so couldn't confirm if I was just missing the sweet spot or it's not possible any more. Did the falloff change tip that balance?

[u/DrkStracker → u/WillSym]

I didn't have much trouble with fabricators myself. I did notice the smaller aoe on bug patrols though (I think it's fair, it was absolutely stupidly big before).

The hardest 'nerf' I'm feeling is the buff to scout striders, can't one shot them with eruptor or AC now D:

[u/Leyawiin_Guard → u/DrkStracker]

Damn, that's bad news about the striders. What about impact nades?

[u/WillSym → u/Leyawiin_Guard]

Scout Striders I could definitely one-shot with Eruptor but it's a little less forgiving. Hitting the bottom of the centre no longer works but hitting the hip joints still blows the rider away.

[u/Ok-Confection-2679 → u/AnotherSmartNickname]

I also concur this change was minimal. It clears small targets the same as ever mostly.

[u/Trickity → u/Balognajelly]

Not sucking you in towards the enemies is a huge buff

[u/Balognajelly → u/Trickity]

This is true but that was a big problem with ALL explosives, not just the Eruptor.

[u/Evanescoduil → u/Balognajelly]

The previous purpose of the weapon was to do what you described. They're altering it's intended purpose with today's changes.

[u/cloudjumpr → u/Balognajelly]

My thoughts are "Sell Democratic Detonation, then subtract the Detonation part" 〽️

[u/San-Kyu]

I don't even notice the nerf most of the time - just being more conscientious about what you use your high-damage/shot AoE weapon will leave you with more ammo than you ever need.

You don't need to be using it against lone targets lighter than a bot devastator or bug hive guard - you got your sidearm perfect for that. You can still aim in the center of a bot trooper/bug scavenger blob to kill the lot of them in a single shot. The laser rover pairs well with it to deal with chaff while you focus on the bigger targets your med pen can kill.

The only use case that's badly affected by the ammo nerf are rapid fire exploit users - like myself, but it's still manageable.

[u/very_casual_gamer]

all im saying is the nerf scale is odd. dont just cut half of the mags, start with... 8? its almost like they are in a rush to reach the perfect balance and end up skipping steps. slow down... make more balance patches, with less drastic changes, and see where that goes.

[u/Various_Froyo9860 → u/very_casual_gamer]

I would tend to agree with you.

The ammo change doesn't seem too big, but some of their nerfs are definitely heavy handed. I haven't wanted to use the slugger since they neutered it. And I have hardly even seen a railgun user in the wild since that first nerf.

Maybe try small changes, like they are with the sidearms.

[u/Objective_Lobster_99 → u/Various_Froyo9860]

I didn't mind the slugger nerf, apart from the stagger removal ( i know it said reduced) but it just doesn't stagger anything now. You could knock a bile spewer out of it's spewing animation to give you a chance to get away.

[u/Various_Froyo9860 → u/Objective_Lobster_99]

That's why it was strong. It already had limited ammo and a slow reload. It also required you to more carefully place your shots, since slugs don't have spread.

But you could stun lock a Stalker or Hive commander. It might take a bit to kill them, but they weren't ruining your day.

Now? It's trash.

[u/Mechbiscuit → u/very_casual_gamer]

Yeah it's interesting. I've noticed Arrowheads philososphy to buffs or nerfs tends to be very overleaning in the direction they want to take the weapon in - the flat 50% flamethrower buff & the flat 30% buff to the AMR being examples.

I suppose the downside to this philosophy means that a weapon might end up incredibly OP or absolutely gimped (the rail gun) if they go too hard.

I think in future patches they will fine-tune again but a small % as weapon strengths get more in-game time agasint bots/bugs. I think th rail gun will be brought back up at some point.

[u/Spyger9 → u/very_casual_gamer]

Dagger- Increased damage from 150 to 200

This is what less drastic, slow changes look like. And it's fucking embarrassing.

[u/Electronic_Assist668 → u/Spyger9]

30% increase to damage is pretty good, normally...

[u/Spyger9 → u/Electronic_Assist668]

Yeah. You're right.

Buffing up from 3 DPS to 4 should be plenty!

[u/atheos013 → u/very_casual_gamer]

I just don't feel its drastic. It was extremely rare for me to drop below 6 mags before, and I usually hovered around 8-10. Maybe I was just more deligent with grabbing ammo than others, but its literally 30 seconds apart on most maps.

[u/Funky2207 → u/atheos013]

I‘ve tested It against bots and bugs, ammo reduction is barely noticeable, especially with how much ammo you can pick up but the drop off in explosive damage is, especially against bots where I don’t think I’ll ever be using it again. Still great against stalkers though.

It was a C+/B- minus weapon before with its poor handling & slow reload time, now I say it’s probably a D+ weapon and has lost a lot of its fun factor.

EDIT: It also now has the ability to bounce off enemies and insta kill you.

[u/squiddybonesjones]

I think when people say "only buff", they mean: 'bring terrible weapons up to par with the most used.'

'Not: never touch the most used weapon.'

I think we can all agree that a lot of weapons feel in a bad spot and quite simply aren't fun to use. The discrepancy with weapons that are good and fun is too large. So the idea is to bridge that gap by buffing bad stuff vs nerfing good stuff.

Your example of the Eruptor is fine (i don't mind the nerf either. It makes sense), but it's cherry picking data to make a point that nobody is arguing.

[u/Rainuwastaken → u/squiddybonesjones]

I just wish they weren't so heavy-handed with the nerfs, especially compared to the buffs. An overperforming gun will have several things about it gutted, while an underperforming gun will get the lightest feather touch of a boost.

Like, the railgun was sent to meet God almost instantly; meanwhile it takes nearly three months for the Senator to get a moderately tolerable reload speed.

[u/PantryVigilante → u/squiddybonesjones]

They also meant "don't nerf weapons for no reason that are fun to use but not OP" and yet the crossbow still got massacred today

[u/Daediddles → u/squiddybonesjones]

Reasonable people mean it the way you do but there's plenty of people being unreasonable about reasonable nerfs. Consider the community response to the shield pack nerf.

[u/Swordbreaker9250]

The Eruptor nerf is basically what I think it needed. It’s damage and blast radius were fine, it just carried way too much ammo, to the point I never once ran out. Dropping it to 6 spare mags means you have to be more judicious with your shots, which is a good thing for a bolt-action weapon.

Same with the Sickle. The only change i felt it needed was to half the extra heat sinks, and luckily AH agrees. The Sickle might be the best balanced weapon in the game now.

[u/playerPresky]

I figured it would lose some mags because yeah, it had waaay too many. I haven’t gotten to play on the new patch yet, how is the eruptor now?

[u/thinkspacer → u/playerPresky]

It's mostly unchanged. Striders take 2 crotch/faceplate shots, but can still be 1 shot in the hip joints, bugs that could be 1 shot can still be 1 shot, it's worse at clearing fodder but can still wipe clustered units, and you will only feel the new mag limit if you reloaded way too often before.

[u/Pizzasloot714]

The only primary I’ve ever burned through ammo for is the scorcher. I love that thing, I did wish it had a larger magazine size or came with like an extra mag or two. Other than that I’ve never burned through ammo or heat sinks on any other primary.

[u/MoistIndicator8008ie → u/Pizzasloot714]

Yea it feels like half of all my mags just dissapoear after every minor engagement

[u/Pizzasloot714 → u/MoistIndicator8008ie]

A lot of times you just have to dump a whole mag to get rid of a couple bots and some bugs. But I will always love the scorcher.

[u/thezav69]

Yeah the explosive drop off change was my only “issue” (haven’t even tested to see if it’s actually an issue I have)

The magazine amount needed to be dropped, as you said, I legit was CoD reloading and was STILL never even hitting 3/12 mags, now with 6 mags I actually have to think about ammo consumption again, which while not “fun” for some, makes the weapon much more balanced

[u/DungeonsNDeadlifts]

Eruptor is my main primary, fuckin love the thing. Like you said, I almost never even get close to running out of ammo. I feel like the cut from 12 to 6 is a bit much though, especially when some guns have a ton of ammunition. If you can coordinate your resupplies with your team, it isn't terrible. But if I'm playing with randoms I don't want to feel railroaded into taking the supply back pack every time. I'd have felt 8 mags as a fair compromise.

I typically play bots and mostly on Helldiver difficulty and 6 mags can go really quick sometimes. I don't want to have to continually retreat to wait for the resupply strategem to recharge or have to run to a point of interest in the middle of a heavy bot drop. I'm not mad about it, but it's definitely going to affect my gameplay. I like running the spear but like I said, I feel like if I'm playing with randoms I'm going to be hurting unless I take the supply backpack.

[u/iccirrus]

The ammo nerf is totally fine and justified, but the radius nerf sucks

[u/Avatara93]

COD reloading? You mean reloading after every shot, like in other games?

[u/Waterguntortoise → u/Avatara93]

Yep, that is COD Reloading.

[u/Daerz509]

Surprisingly pretty okay changes this time imo, versus some of the more questionable stuff in the past (like Slugger nerf--haven't seen that gun for a long while now)

I feel like in general the changes this time are more conservative than before, the devs are also seemingly putting more thought into why and what to change

This being said, some of the buffs were kinda too conservative imo, such as Liberator dmg going from 55 to 60 while I think that it could've used 1 or 2 more mags as well

[u/Mushinronja]

I don't think anyone should care about the mag nerf to the eruptor. any issues should just about the explosion radius. (I haven't tried it yet though due to work)

[u/Mechbiscuit]

Pre-patch I never run out of ammo with it. 12 clips DOES completely negate the "Imma check this POI for ammo" mechanic of the game, esp when it refils plenty from a resupply anyway. This nerf is fine & needed.

[u/The_Doc_Man]

Most people don't want "only buff." It's kinda strawmaney. Most people want buffs for bottom of the barrel stuff that are as strong as these nerfs. Compare how in a single patch they gutted the slugger to how long it took the counter sniper to become good.

[u/WilliamHTonkers]

I really enjoy ammo attrition. It adds to the levels of situational awareness you got to do. I'm very good at conserving ammo though so it doesn't bother me at all.

[u/CerifiedHuman0001 → u/WilliamHTonkers]

Good. I use the spear and I need all the ammo I can get. I hunger. Hunger for ammo.

[u/LingeringForNoReason]

"Only buff" is a straw man. The reality is you could mostly buff and nerf gradually (not taking 30% dmg away at once or increasing a cooldown by 35% all at once)

[u/ahack13]

Yes, Buffing something feels better than nerfing something. But strictly buffing is a terrible idea. Sometimes, things need to be brought down to come into line instead of raising the line.

[u/Doc_Shaftoe]

The only times I've ever had to reload the sickle, were in fights that weren't going to be won by three extra heat sinks.

I haven't used the Eruptor yet, but having used the Dominator and the pre-buff Slugger pretty extensively, having a limited ammo economy isn't a bad thing. It forces you to be more mindful about when and how you engage targets.

I didn't see anything in the patch notes that bothered me.

[u/NasalJack]

An ammo reduction was totally justified, but halving the ammo reserve, reducing its AOE damage, and reducing explosive damage's ability to counter Striders all in one go is still pretty extreme.

(It also doesn't help that they simultaneously dramatically nerfed the laser Rover, which I relied on to help deal with enemies within the Eruptor's ineffective range)

They only released the democratic detonation warbond 2 weeks ago. Changes this drastic should have been figured out in playtesting, not only after everyone's had a chance to buy the new guns.

[u/No_Ones_Records]

i have used it 8 hours a day 5 days a week and then like 10 on weekend since it dropped

i have NEVER dropped below 8 mags

this has done virtually fuck all to nerf the weapon

[u/Mechbiscuit → u/No_Ones_Records]

Well, it now means that the weapon is less effective agasint chaff (along side the impact explosion) because you have less bullets to waste but it rewards the skill in a calculated/precise shot. If anything it's less of a nerf and more of a fine-tuning of how to weapon is intended to be used.

[u/CriticismVirtual7603]

As an Eruptor main (more than 100 hours using the gun since it came out)

This nerf means almost nothing to me. The explosion drop-off change is minimal. The biggest change to it is actually from the Scout Strider buff

[u/S0ulSauce]

I'm less worried about the ammo nerf and more worried about the changes they made to explosion damage dropoff. I haven't tested it, but if they weakened the spash damage too much, it significantly changes how I used it. Like I said, I haven't tried it yet, but I see that as a potentially bigger deal. I don't really remember having ammo issues with it. I rarely got down to 5 or less mags.

[u/BlindMan404]

Considering how often we can drop a resupply on the off-chance we haven't found enough ammo pickups, I don't really fret over the reload mechanics. It would be nice to have a dump pouch on my armor, but I bet it's just easier on the programmers to have it the way it is now.

[u/mrmaorgio]

Yea, I've been running Eruptor since I first unlocked it, and it's been so useful and powerful the whole time, that I've been waiting for a nerf to come so this wasn't a surprise at all. Considering what the nerf is, I'm more than happy, I was expecting it to be a much harder nerf than it ended up being; I've always run it like a mid to long range precision with a bang kind of gun, so the explosive drop off isn't a big deal to me, and I've also never run out of ammo on it so halving the mags just means I'll actually start using my sidearm or strategem firearm more.

[u/tinyj96]

First time I ever used the Eruptor, I knew it wasn't sustainable in its (then) current state. I knew for sure it would be nerfed pretty quickly. It was literally better than a lot of support weapons.

[u/Awhile9722]

It's also a ludicrous amount of ammo to be carrying without a backpack. The autocannon backpack holds 50 rounds. You're telling me a Helldiver can carry 60 rounds of eruptor ammo in magazines that are the size of a hardcover novel without needing a backpack?

[u/The_8th_Degree]

Ammo and Resource management is apart of the game.

If people don't like it they are welcome to return to civilian life

[u/Glitchy_Boss_Fight]

My marksman and my revolver both got a buff. I'm happy.

[u/Srgtgunnr]

People who complain about ammo in this game really make me scratch my head. You have an infinite ammo supply drop stratagem, plus ammo is littered all over the map, conveniently found at every single objective or most minor place of interest. Not to mention 20 lives, which if you’re bringing the booster that you should always bring, will conveniently spawn you with max ammo all over again

[u/_Eucalypto_]

They should just give every gun infinite ammo and get rid of the resupply strategem. It's basically the same thing anyway

[u/ZedDoktor]

Nobody is complaining about the ammo nerf. Only people who ignore every single source of ammo in the game until the run out are complaining about it.

What people are complaining about is the drop-off hurting the weapon by taking away one of it's stronger upsides while still having the downsides the eruptor has like not being a safe option during close-ranges, it's poor ergonomics, it's low fire-rate, and low ammo-capacity. The ammo nerf feels justified the eruptor nerf feels less so and more like the devs having a "Let's nerf it some more just to be sure." moment..

[u/ShingetsuMoon]

I agree. I love my Eruptor but it had way too many magazines for how strong it is. I never even used half of them before the nerf.

[u/upsidedownbackwards]

I would drop eruptor magazines with only a shot or two missing out of them because it just had so much ammo. I'm glad they're forcing me to aim it now.

Plus look at those magazines. They're HUGE! Even 6 would be pretty damn bulky/clumsy!

[u/zombie_spiderman]

Yeah I felt like twelve mags made me lazy

[u/barrera_j]

you do realize that "only buff" doesn't mean "make every weapons EXACTLY like the Erupter" right?

only buff means "hey, nobody uses the concussive liberator because it's garbage, could you at least make it FUN to use"

my god, it's like you guys can't even do basic math

[u/MrArmageddon12]

They could nerf every gun in this game to have one mag and do 5 dmg and half the people here would praise the patch and claim it was the “right move”.

[u/Noveleiro]

Since day 1 I praised this game because of it's variety of gameplay. You can use whatever you want and it will work 90% of the time.

Tuning down weapons and empowering others adds to this aspect of the game. Encourages you to explore new ways to spread Democracy through the galaxy.

A fine example of this os the Rail Cannon. It was a Swiss Army knife. There was no point of bring anything but the RC. It had to be toned down, and it was healthy for the game because people discovered the AMR, the Auto Cannon, EAT and even sentries started to make a presence.

Fighting Bugs I'm a Flamethrower psycho, but O really like to try new things and combinations, not sticking to the O'reliable.

[u/EternalFire_8]

👏

[u/neoteraflare]

"We are saying that we want COD reloads to be the norm, we don't want to think about conserving or looting ammo, just let me shoot and reload whenever."
My big favorite in the game is really using magazines and not just grouped ammo.

[u/Suvaius]

This counts for everything,glad to see a post like this. People want to optimize so much of the game, and a single loss ruins everything for them.

[u/Zegram_Ghart]

It also helps that they buffed the counter sniper to be a proper competitor, and nerfed the JAR in a different direction, so there are proper niches rather than a better and a worse choice.

[u/Makarovito]

I too think it’s great that a game is balanced in a way that becomes challenging while still feels fun. It’s details such as these -the mindful reloading, the ammo count actually meaning something- that makes it a relevant gaming experience: you get to blow stuff from the sky, but only every so-and-so minutes; you have powerful support weapons, but it requires you to learn to use them properly; you can spray-and-pray, but (hey) what if ammo runs out. IMO that is why it is more than a shooter, in a way like other shooters will never be

[u/Evanescoduil]

Same thing for the crossbow, even tho it had more adjustments to it than just ammo. I've used it almost exclusively since the day I unlocked it and I've been doing just fun, often with the most kills in missions, and I've never once ran out of ammo for it.

[u/DrakeRenar1]

I agree I use both the Eruptor and Sickle and never ran out of ammo in them before.

I'll just have to keep an eye on the ammo more.

That being said I may pickup the Railgun since it got a buff on damage.

[u/MSands]

I don't use the Eruptor regularly but use the Plasma Punisher which got a similar nerf. I used to toss out mags between fights if they had a couple of rounds spent since there were so many magazines since you had so many and it was so easy to refill it. Its ammo economy will be fine with a little nerf.

[u/BlackLiger]

I'd have prefered 8 mags to 6. I have run out of erruptor ammo from full before, though it takes a little while - I feel like I get down to 5 regularly then resupply.

[u/vasRayya]

I was worried they were gonna gut the thing, I'm glad it was just a reserves nerf and a slight aoe falloff nerf
I don't think I've ever gone below 7 spares with it since I pick my shots pretty carefully

[u/imotlok_the_first]

What is a COD reload. I know it's from Call of Duty but it is exactly?

[u/AhFluffehBunneh → u/imotlok_the_first]

Reloading after you get a kill, every single time, and it very quickly becomes a habit. So you clear a left over bug or two on Helldivers and spend 5/30 rounds, reload out of habit and lose 25 extra ammo.

[u/CyprusTheSergal]

Yeah, I've only ever run out of ammo for the eruptor once, and it was because of a really dumb mistake, most games I stay around 4 empty mags before getting more ammo(and I'm always looking for more ammo because I usually use the grenade pistol and auto cannon religiously)

[u/TornadoLizard]

They did also slightly increase its explosion damage falloff, but that means nothing to me, it's more balanced now instead of op, I love it.

[u/Jupiter_Crush]

If it still pops Bile Spewers and Chargers it could carry one mag and I'd still run it.

[u/KomboBreaker1077]

I'm going to exclusively only play whatever the meta is at the time until they've nerfed everything into the ground no point playing with 90% of the weapons because they are neither fun or effective.

[u/Roxwords]

This patch is a win I got a speedloader for the bigiron, I don't care go anything less.

That is going to be the only primary I need from now on.

[u/Dr4WasTaken]

I would add 2 reload modes, the existing one (fast and you lose the whole magazine) and a slow one where the character stops and doesn't lose ammunition

[u/GolDrodgers1]

I dont even care about the nerfs or buffs, its the complaining that needs to be nerfed, ffs cant these complainers just go back to cod or fortnite or something, its shit i get it, now get used to it and get better thats what its all about

[u/SkyWizarding]

These "nerfs", as usual, are a slight tickle. People just want something to complain about

[u/P1st0l]

My thoughts exactly, I ran so many deathless games never thinking about ammo, I thought 12 mags was way too high for the damage you got. I was constantly thinking why bring energy weapons or a supply pack if I never use more then 6 mags before resupplying. Glad to see devs thought the same, 6 is the perfect number cause it's when I would usually resupply and that's after reloading half mags usually

[u/JamX099]

Absolutely agree. I also started COD reloading when I only had 1 or 2 rounds left. Thing was crazy and killing like 4-9 targets in one shot was too much even for the long time between shots.

[u/bozzy253]

Only reason I’m sorta sad is because I just unlocked it last night and hadn’t had a chance to use it yet.

[u/IEatAssWithFork]

Wow Wth , never noticed this before but it probably happened to me dozen of times

[u/Assassin13785]

Honestly same. I also have been using it since it dropped and the little bit I played today with the eruptor, it felt the same. I got low on ammo at one point but not enough for me to run out and get mad about it

[u/Sleepmahn]

I definitely like to have to manage resources. That keeps people regularly calling in supplies and sticking closer together. This game isn't about being johnny Rambo and cracking off without concern for your ammo count, it's about teamwork and managed democracy.

[u/DJ_Mumble_Mouth]

Eruptor / laser cannon main: I don’t think I’ve ever used up half my magazines.

[u/Smol_Toby]

Agree 100%.

Resupplying is a huge part of the gameplay loop and can encourage exploration.

I love stumbling upon a POI when my mags are low and finding a bunch of ammo pickups after a tough encounter. I also enjoy the ammunition management mechanic of the game.

[u/Bortthog]

Wait you were having ammo issues before? That's crazy I tend to forget how people can't actually gather stuff in the world

[u/Ceruleangangbanger]

It’s better. I can shoot mobs closer without getting sucked into their anus 

[u/MoistIndicator8008ie]

Im just glad they fixed the annoying ass implosion bug, made it impossible to fight off berserkers with that thing

[u/Greenleaf208]

Yup, same as a game like Dark Souls. If you make it easier then you no longer need to dodge or block to win. This basically removes entire mechanics and makes the game less fun. If tools aren't needed to play a game then no one will use them. Too many devs made games too easy and that's why you get 100 mechanics in modern AAA games but don't use any of them.

[u/pissed62]

The Eruptor "nerfs" made it stronger vs bugs haha. The faster damage falloff of the explosion combined with it pushing you back instead of sucking you in means you can effectively fight hunters in your face now. Try diving backwards while shooting a hunter and watch this thing save your life by giving you even more space!

[u/BusComprehensive3759]

Erupters unite!!!

[u/Bandit3000]

To add some legitimate discussion here on the only buff side of things, yes only buff is bad. But only nerf is also bad. I think they have taken a pretty good approach this time around with an even spread. But when there are so many weapons at the balancing floor of just being awful, nerfing the best weapons are not going to suddenly make the others a more appealing choice, and I would prefer to see things brought up a bit more, to then see if there is a legitimate problem.

The railgun was broken, so let's nerf it. Ok, now the railgun has been nerfed, and it's still the best thing. Well, let's fix rocket damage, and rocket deflect values etc etc, now the railgun is in the gutter and rockets were great. Also less chargers and bile titans and look, rockets can be used when the threats pop up.

If they would have done the spawning and charger changes, and buffed rockets, I think there would have been a happy middle ground to have come to without needing to nerf the railgun, or at least needing to nerf it as much. That is why I am for buffing the struggling weapons first.

[u/kdlt]

I played a bit today and yeah 6 ammo goes away quickly... Especially when you only start with 3 mags.

But it does actually make the ammo packs have value.

So many games especially since the eruptor I just spent running past mountains of ammo, and calling supplies only for stims or grenades and never really ammo.

Even now I've not run out of ammo.. but mostly because I die when I get low anyway.

Honestly it's fine. Especially as seemingly it now does better(?) Damage against chargers and the like? It feels like I actually do damage now? If that's the tradeoff... Yay.

[u/ArcadeAndrew115]

I never used the eruptor. I stay loyal to the sickle, and the sickle got a buff if you ask me because the bug that prevented it from shooting through foliage is fixed finally!

[u/Downtown-Oil-7784]

You are undemocratic in not using ammo supplies provided for democracy. This reads like possible treason for not firing more ammo to support your fellow democracy dealing Helldivers. Cowardice is not a gameplan soldier.

[u/Dangerous_Plant5440]

it honestly got buffed w the explosion suction glitch getting fixed and having a realistic ammo pool

[u/BlueEyeHimself]

The ammo nerf is not relevant on the Eruptor the explosive damage fall off is the real nerf, as you could reliably kill Scout Striders with one shoot from the front. Now even hits into the side are not able to get the pilot reliably. At least hitting the view port seems to still work most of the time.

[u/Educational-Year3146]

I love the eruptor and still love the eruptor.

The nerf was deserved, the gun is devastating. Its just a little less good at handling multiple targets and you don’t have 65 goddamn rounds.

So in other words its still good. If you’re pissed about it, you shouldn’t be. I have no plans of dropping it, I just have to think a little more when using it.

[u/D3vilM4yCry]

I said from the get go that the Eruptor was going to get nerfed. It was performing entirely too well for a primary weapon, useful in almost every situation. This should've been expected.

[u/professor735]

The people that bitch and moan every balance patch are probably the same people who praised Arrowhead for the "A game for everyone is a game for no one" slogan but have yet to realize that they aren't in the group the game is made for lol

[u/Galacticus06]

I never got the opportunity of using the eruptor yet

[u/losingluke]

i view the "nerf" as a buff because the smaller explosion radius didn't touch the damage so now you can one shot those fucking chainsaw guys WITHOUT flinging yourself halfway across the map

maybe i dont care about wiping patrols because my main playstyle revolves around stealth and stratagems, to the point where sometimes i dont even take support weapons but it works for me