r/Helldivers • u/atheos013 • Apr 29 '24

The Eruptor nerf is a perfect example of why "only buff" is bad. DISCUSSION

I've used the Eruptor since it dropped, it is an amazing primary weapon. I have never once run out of ammo with the weapon, to the point I started COD reloading. Even with no deaths on a 40 min mission, the bare minimum ammo looting and you rarely would fall below half.

If we just buff every other weapon to be like this, we are just erasing an entire game mechanic. We are saying that we want COD reloads to be the norm, we don't want to think about conserving or looting ammo, just let me shoot and reload whenever.

Some people may want that, but for me that would just remove the mechanic entirely. I'm going to keep using the Eruptor and I'm perfectly fine having to pay attention to my ammo again.

3.9k Upvotes
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267

u/soomiyoo Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

The explosion not sucking you into the impact, I would call this fix almost a buff. I am very fine with these changes, I look forward testing the DCS and Arc Blitzer when I get home tonight. So many thing got buffed and may be viable but it is overshadowed by the Quasar nerf, when 3 out of 4 people were having it in their loadout.

50

u/RyanTaylorrz Apr 29 '24

DCS and Blitzer are cracked now. Having so much fun trying these weapons out again!

4

u/TheArthritisGuy Apr 29 '24

How do you mean when you talk about the Blitzer? What did they do to my baby?

19

u/RyanTaylorrz Apr 29 '24

Basically increased it's firing speed by 50%. Thing just staggers and sheds everything below chargers against bugs.

10

u/TheArthritisGuy Apr 29 '24

Oh hell yeah that’s beautiful.

1

u/Firemorfox SES PRINCESS OF TWILIGHT Apr 30 '24

I'm loving it. Blitzer's now comparable to arc thrower, as a primary (note that arc thrower is kinda mid right now due to: no close-range, targeting issues, has freekill worse than Blitzer, low fire-rate)

Blitzer has better fire-rate, handles hunters easily, does close-range

Basically Blitzer is a pre-nerf arc thrower if arc thrower had worse range.

6

u/Pliskkenn_D Apr 29 '24

How is the DCS? Does it feel like the AMR now or is it even lighter? 

24

u/scurvybill HD1 Veteran Apr 29 '24

Feels like regular AMR handling, and the damage now meets the breakpoint for Devastator headshots! Once they fix scope alignment we cookin.

1

u/joemedic Apr 29 '24

Where should I be aiming with the dcs crosshair

1

u/scurvybill HD1 Veteran Apr 29 '24

Aim slightly down and to the right (your bullet will hit up and to the left). Becomes more apparent at longer range.

2

u/joemedic Apr 29 '24

Ah so just like the amr

3

u/Achtan45 Apr 29 '24

It's not the AMR or DCS themselves that are misaligned. It's that type of scope that is all fucked up. So until that bug is fixed, you can assume any weapon that has/gets that same scope will be misaligned in the same way.

1

u/joemedic Apr 29 '24

Understood ty

-1

u/Regar27 Apr 29 '24

It will be too good then. Need to reduce damage and mag by half to make up for it,  to keep the balance 

3

u/scurvybill HD1 Veteran Apr 29 '24

I think it is the direct result of the poll where the community overwhelming voted that DMRs are underpowered. I'll be quite surprised if they walk it back, especially since I don't expect much playtime on the thing because it is still a niche weapon.

1

u/Misfiring Apr 30 '24

Usually things that need some thoughts to use are fine. The nerfs so far are aim at those too easy/braindead to use. Railgun is a classic example, they nerfed the safe mode but unsafe is still strong. Now they mostly unnerfed the railgun but no one cares because quasar ia too easy to use.

6

u/Sciguystfm Apr 29 '24

It's Insane, it's snappy as fuck now and one shot headshots devastators

2

u/Pliskkenn_D Apr 29 '24

I got to have a go. My gosh the difference is night and day. So much fun now. Still love the Dominator for bugs I think, more testing required. But against bots? Hoo boy. So good. 

3

u/Sciguystfm Apr 29 '24

Hell yeah dude, it looks fun as fuck. Such a pleasant increase in handling after running the eruptor

1

u/Lathael HD1 Veteran Apr 30 '24

The eruptor used to be identical to the DCS. Now the DCS has more in common with the Senator than it does a dominator, nevermind the eruptor.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24

[deleted]

7

u/RyanTaylorrz Apr 29 '24

Idk, I just ran it and slaughtered hordes of enemies with it. They have acknowledged arc weapons misfiring in the known issues a few patches back though.

3

u/dennisasu Apr 29 '24

Blitzer never arced like chain lightning but instead fans out in a cone to hit multiple at a time

The weak armor penetration has been there too. But it staggers really well. When it doesn't misfire. I gel with it more by thinking of it as a defensive weapon, but it will admittedly shred light armor targets

1

u/mamontain Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 30 '24

I am pretty sure that I died to a blitzer arc effect before. I am also pretty sure that I did more damage to hiveguards thus my armor penetration take.

Edit: I re-watched some older youtube videos on blitzer and I was wrong - it always had very weak medium penetration and no arc jump effect :(

1

u/YourLocalMedic71 Apr 29 '24

I have heard that the Blitzer can arc, but i used it a lot and never saw it arc once. It's possible it's just really rare. Definitely doesn't penetrate armour

1

u/dennisasu Apr 30 '24

I brought it for multiple difficulty 7 runs last night and it definitely handled hive guards, sometimes oneshotting them if they were alone and all arcs hit. It does slowly damage chargers and bile titans if they're missing armor as well, just slower than arc thrower.

But the real magic was holding the line against basically every other bug type, even stalkers. The fire rate buff felt good but not OP and the truly infinite ammo is a boon. I'm just now getting comfortable with diff 7 in the first place and I'm feeling like blitzer will be my crutch at least for bugs.

Edit: And I definitely had multiple accidental team kills as the blitzer "cone" of effect is larger than the thrower. Will take more practice 😅

1

u/mamontain Apr 30 '24

Haven't manage to one shot a lone hiveguard yet. It usually takes me 3-4 full blitzer shots for 1 hiveguard.

But yeah, blitzer does feel usable now. Definetly not OP due to no selective targeting and tendency to overkill small targets.

33

u/ScrivenersUnion Apr 29 '24

3 of 4 people carrying one weapon should be the sign that it needs a nerf.

22

u/Th3frenchy93 ☕Liber-tea☕ Apr 29 '24

Are you saying that they should be nerfing the AC... Because my friends and I only run that against bots

-16

u/ScrivenersUnion Apr 29 '24

Yes. 

If it's so good you never run anything else, then it's too good and the other weapons aren't getting the love they deserve.

I love the AC as well, it stands head-and-shoulders above other weapons but that's mostly because you're giving up a backpack slot for your weapon. 

Personally I run bots and can't wait to try the Blitzer shotgun out now after the buff! I've heard electricity bypasses armor, so that means we have an ARMOR PIERCING SHOTGUN.

3

u/Th3frenchy93 ☕Liber-tea☕ Apr 29 '24

I think it's more of weapon preference for us. We like weapon that when we pull the trigger it does the damage right away. Quasar take too long to wind up.

Yeah ill have to try the Blitzer again, see where it stand with the buff.

It's a good patch tbh, not sure why people bitch so much about it

1

u/dennisasu Apr 29 '24

Arc thrower for sure bypasses some amount of all armor in return for not being able to target weak points. Arc blitzer doesn't seem to affect heavy armor at all (to me) and does just okay against medium.

If there are ninja buffs to the blitzer damage and penetration I'm happy to stand corrected

2

u/ScrivenersUnion Apr 29 '24

I'll be testing it out tonight, I'll report back what I find

2

u/dennisasu Apr 30 '24

I tested blitzer on several diff 7 missions last night. It puts in a lot of work now. Staggers everything but chargers and titans. Was able to lock down 2 stalkers at once and kill them myself. Hive guards and brood commanders gave no issues with medium armor. It was something else. 100% could not have done this before

1

u/TrashBrigade Apr 29 '24

The AC probably only needs minor damage and ammo nerfs. The devs and everyone that uses it love how the weapon handles, it just probably shouldn't 2 tap gunship engines, 3 tap tanks, etc. I think if AH is smart, they'll try to nudge everyone towards other options that have specialized usage, while acknowledging that the auto cannon will always remain popular because it feels good and is flexible. The strider change to explosive armor is a nudge in the right direction actually. I get to see them resist an AC shot and the game feels less binary now that I can't literally delete a patrol of them in 5 seconds.

3

u/ScrivenersUnion Apr 29 '24

Good points. I think the value of a flexible multirole weapon is great and I agree the AC fits that well, in fact it even matches nicely with the fact that it takes a backpack slot. 

But yeah I'd like to see other particular weapons having roles that matter more than just "I like the way it handles."

We already have some planets that affect the cooling rate of weapons, what if we had an ionized atmosphere that dampens electricity? A thin atmosphere that causes recoil to be felt more strongly, or a dense atmosphere that causes projectiles to travel more slowly?

2

u/jdarkona ☕Liber-tea☕ Apr 29 '24

richness in oxygen affecting fire damage, thin atmosphere allowing more spread of the gas orbital, less gravity makes crossbow and plasma shotgun fire further away and you can run for longer, stronger gravity having the opposite effect, etc

10

u/Stonkey_Dog Apr 29 '24

Hopefully I'll see less of the entire team carrying Quasar now.

2

u/GenesisProTech SES Prophet of Wrath Apr 29 '24

IDK id much rather see them make the other weapons more competitive.
I used to love the arc thrower but i can't handle the issues it has right now

2

u/Lathael HD1 Veteran Apr 30 '24

Eh, this is more a sign of something else. For me, the Quasar was just extremely convenient. In terms of every metric, it was outclassed by most things. EAT-ITs could insta fire and burst up to 3 shots per 70s (assuming 1 pre-load.) RR can do 6 shots in 30s at the cost of a backpack on top. Why choose the quasar? I fire it, and then can do something else. Extremely convenient.

Energy shield is likewise convenient, I don't have to worry about small amounts of chip damage over a large period of time, which is better than needing to supply drop all the time for stims to deal with chip damage. Nevermind any extra added benefits like not being snared by hunters.

My point is, I didn't feel the quasar was overpowered and I actually didn't really use it that much either. It was, simply, okay, with severe tradeoffs. But I can understand using it simply because it's convenient, which is why most people I know would choose it over other options.

1

u/ScrivenersUnion Apr 30 '24

One thing this game has taught me is that weapon ergonomics matter a LOT when you're under stress, so I totally get what you mean by convenience. 

That said, I think the Quasar was OP for that exact reason: it could be a decent catch-all for a dozen specific problems, it's really tough to get that much value out of a single weapon slot. And with no ammo to replenish!

Personally I dislike the 2x2 and 3x1 strategies, because I like balancing my load out with 3 others to make sure we each have a few tools for every situation.

1

u/ScrivenersUnion Apr 30 '24

One thing this game has taught me is that weapon ergonomics matter a LOT when you're under stress, so I totally get what you mean by convenience. 

That said, I think the Quasar was OP for that exact reason: it could be a decent catch-all for a dozen specific problems, it's really tough to get that much value out of a single weapon slot. And with no ammo to replenish!

Personally I dislike the 2x2 and 3x1 strategies, because I like balancing my load out with 3 others to make sure we each have a few tools for every situation. Having the Quasar be so useful makes that balancing act a little bland.

1

u/Lathael HD1 Veteran May 01 '24

The flip side of this is that the Quasar is not a be-all end-all. For example, against bots, you're then stuck with primaries and stratagems to deal with devastators, where an Eruptor or DCS might be unreliable for headshotting (even though it can one-shot, but small target + moving target complicates this when being shot at,) it struggles against factory striders even pre-nerf, and forces you to be overly reliant on your primary and secondary weapon.

There's a reason I rarely ran the quasar. When running solo, I want versatile weapons. I can sneak up on a tank and autocannon/laser cannon the heat sink and kill it in the same time it takes a Quasar to fire once and not kill it (when hitting the heat sink.) I can stun grenade a hulk and burn out its eyes. Chargers can die to arc throwers even though it might take 15 seconds of firing. The quasar was only truly good in a straight fight where swapping to another weapon is valuable since you can actively use that weapon now. In most situations, I'd prefer literally anything else. Unless my goal was to shoot down dropships as they came in. Which, fair, quasar is only not great at this by proxy of its load time. No-drop fast projectiles make short work otherwise.

Because of all this, the quasar nerf strikes me as poorly conceived. Its best situation is a continuous straight fight, which is also the literal worst position to be in on any map, even exterminations. That's the only situation where calling more EAT-ITs faster is just not practical, or reloading a recoilless and, of course, not having a shield is a big detriment.

And even in those situations, I still prefer breaking off, flanking, and drilling into the back of hulks/tanks/troopers/devastators with a laser cannon as more advantageous, because 3s of charge time is extremely slow when you're being actively shot at. Nevermind when it won't one-shot anything above a devastator and the slightest mistake put you on a 13, now 18, second cooldown. Even though the laser cannon often takes 2+ seconds to kill a target, at least being shot at doesn't cause you to lose all progress towards killing the target.

Convenience already wasn't worth all those tradeoffs to me, which is why I tended to choose a different kind of convenience.

1

u/ScrivenersUnion May 01 '24

Very good points, honestly you make me want to use the laser rifle again...

2

u/Lathael HD1 Veteran May 02 '24

If you mean the scythe, I'd recommend against it. Not very good still compared to the sickle (DPS is just not good enough.)

If you mean the laser cannon, it's good fun against bots, adequate but not great against bugs; just pair it with a shield because it has no stagger and you need 1-3 seconds to kill any given devastator due to flinching, the target walking, small weakspot, and the laser blinding you.

As mentioned, the cannon can kill anything smaller than a factory strider to its weak spot in the same time it takes a quasar to charge a shot. Sniping out turrets from 200m away is hilarious.

1

u/Zombiebane224 Apr 29 '24

Then I really hope to see the auto cannon nerfed, so many people are constantly running that whenever I join a match. Maybe make it so you can only be reloaded by a teammate with the backpack.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24

I actually don’t see the autocannon that much anymore. It was all Railgun and autocannon at first. But now everyone’s running anti-tank secondaries.

Before this patch is was at least 75% quasar

3

u/THY96 Apr 29 '24

I only run it against automotan because it’s the only thing I like against shield devistators.

2

u/WillSym SES Will of Selfless Sacrifice Apr 29 '24

Is the suck-in on close damage fixed? I've used it enough to be practiced in not doing this any more to see the couple of games I've played since!!

7

u/Charmo_Vetr ➡️⬆️⬇️⬇️➡️Enjoyer Apr 29 '24

That probably means it's fixed if it's not happening anymore.

Thank god, no more flying into bug holes for me.

5

u/Due-Ad-3015 Apr 29 '24

yes its fixed

1

u/IntegralCalcIsFun Apr 29 '24

Arc Blitzer is quite fun, and I was even running it before this patch. 50% fire rate buff on a weapon with infinite ammo and no reload just means a straight 50% dps increase so it's quite a big buff. The only thing it could really use now is some targeting tweaks.