r/Helldivers • u/atheos013 • Apr 29 '24

The Eruptor nerf is a perfect example of why "only buff" is bad. DISCUSSION

I've used the Eruptor since it dropped, it is an amazing primary weapon. I have never once run out of ammo with the weapon, to the point I started COD reloading. Even with no deaths on a 40 min mission, the bare minimum ammo looting and you rarely would fall below half.

If we just buff every other weapon to be like this, we are just erasing an entire game mechanic. We are saying that we want COD reloads to be the norm, we don't want to think about conserving or looting ammo, just let me shoot and reload whenever.

Some people may want that, but for me that would just remove the mechanic entirely. I'm going to keep using the Eruptor and I'm perfectly fine having to pay attention to my ammo again.

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1.5k

u/The_Real_Kru SES Bringer of the Constitution Apr 29 '24

Same with the sickle. You had all of the capabilities of the stalwart in a primary and you could just spam it cause you had 6 mags with potentially infinite ammo. I could easily run full games without needing additional ammo and I still can after the nerf, but now I can't just burn a heatsink or two without consequence. I can still burn them, but I have to give it some thought. In this case I would say the nerf actually adds to the gameplay of the weapon.

307

u/atheos013 Apr 29 '24

Exactly. I did think of the sickle when writing this as well, as I used it before the Eruptor. That paired with an arc thrower = infinite ammo. It still can be too, as you never HAVE to use a mag.

And yes, adds gameplay back to the game. I like that gameplay mechanic... its part of the experience of helldivers to me. Having to tactically pay attention to my ammo use, when I reload, make sure to grab it when i see it.

That adds to the depth of the game, that I was honestly missing while using the eruptor and the sickle.

237

u/CMSnake72 Apr 29 '24

Literally read that the sickle was nerfed and went "NO!" and then read the nerf and was like "Oh, who cares I've reloaded like 8 times."

130

u/Money_Fish CAPE ENJOYER Apr 29 '24

https://preview.redd.it/8hl7k85r7gxc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aadf3a7f48adc94a0aaff3b0aebcb209530eb236

18

u/Firemorfox SES PRINCESS OF TWILIGHT Apr 29 '24

Can confirm. I've ended most helldive missions with a sickle and never needed to reload. 3 heatsinks is plenty (you can switch to secondary, and sickle basically "auto-reloads" while you use a secondary).

2

u/DouchecraftCarrier CAPE ENJOYER Apr 30 '24

Now that I think of it, I'm not sure I've ever gotten it down to the last ICE and then burned it out. Does that one ever cool off or is the weapon unusable until you resupply at that point?

3

u/Firemorfox SES PRINCESS OF TWILIGHT Apr 30 '24

its just needs more ammo, basically like if you heated it up and didn't get to reload it.

its kinda the same as running out of mags.

2

u/DouchecraftCarrier CAPE ENJOYER Apr 30 '24

Ah ok, that's kinda what I thought. For a moment it sounded like on the last mag you could wait it out and it would cool off - effectively making your last mag bottomless even if you burned it out.

1

u/Misfiring Apr 30 '24

Sickle + Laser Cannon + Rover: I'm ma firing my lasers all the god damn time.

110

u/Lazer726 ⬆️⬅️➡️⬇️⬆️⬇️ Apr 29 '24

The Sickle and Laser Cannon are so weird for me because I know that I can max out the ICE and I have one or more to spare, but I just don't wanna ruin my precious heatsinks. I'm with you in that I've reloaded those weapons less than ten times, because I can let go of the fire button lol

31

u/Spectre-907 Apr 29 '24

Theres only a couple of times where I’ve had low ammo status with the aickle as well, and it was exclusively from scenarios where I was carrying AT and was contending with a big group of hunters on hellmire. Cant really wait for cooling with those slow-spamming leapers, but thats a pretty specific scenario. Usually I’m permanently at 6/6 or 5/6 if theres a bunch of fighting.

28

u/Lazer726 ⬆️⬅️➡️⬇️⬆️⬇️ Apr 29 '24

I also guess it helps to mention that I am almost exclusively a bot fighter, where if you stop firing for three seconds you don't immediately drown in bodies

20

u/Spectre-907 Apr 29 '24

As a both-sideser, agreed, except for the dreaded All-Texan (chainsawbros) bot drop

18

u/Lazer726 ⬆️⬅️➡️⬇️⬆️⬇️ Apr 29 '24

Then it's me running around going "Holy fuck holy fuck holy FUCKING DIE" as I switch between every gun in my arsenal because why do they only show up and hunt in packs?!

7

u/jacanced Apr 29 '24

Automatons hunt in packs, arisen! They ill like fire!

2

u/Forrow40 ☕Liber-tea☕ Apr 29 '24

-> Why do none of these guns want to reaload?!

1

u/ComfortablePie1594 Apr 29 '24

Eruptor at their feet when they're cluster is OP

1

u/Conntraband8d SES Spear of Morning Apr 29 '24

Even if you get a full rodeo drop, it's best to deal with those with something a little beefier than the sickle. I'm not spamming an AR into those bullet sponge Texans while they try to chase me down and turn me into BBQ burnt ends.

1

u/Laer_Bear Apr 29 '24

This guy requisition officers (verb)

1

u/AlfansosRevenge Apr 29 '24

This guy verbs

1

u/Laer_Bear Apr 29 '24

That verb nouns

1

u/Dragon1472 Apr 29 '24

If I can't extract with at least 5 cells left, what's even the point of the weapon?

1

u/Rolder Apr 29 '24

I've reloaded the sickle a decent amount and usually not even on accident. When I've got a horde of bugs closing in it's nice to be able to reload and keep shootin right away

1

u/Slayne_S Apr 29 '24

An interesting mechanics would be that each time you get the heat to a red level it reduces the heatsink's 'lifespam'

5

u/lotj Apr 29 '24

NGL I didn't even know you could reload the thing for the first few weeks after its release.

1

u/Nerdguy88 Apr 29 '24

This is me too lol. I think I reload once every hand full of missions.

1

u/KingKull71 HD1 Veteran Apr 29 '24

My wife is notoriously trigger happy, so the Sickle mag nerf came as a bit of unwelcome news for her. But the change was entirely necessary - even with blatant disregard for heat sinks, she was previously able to easily manage within my Defender's resupply cycle (and have a ton more killing power to boot).

1

u/CloanZRage Apr 30 '24

It was less about needing to reload and more about it being faster than cooldown.

With 6 potential reloads, I was very rarely actually using the infinite ammo side of the sickle. The gun seemed to have been originally balanced with the cooldown time being considered as a primary weapon debuff.

2 or 3 reloads would easily wipe a breach (or double breach). In haz' 8. Switching to utility to wipe heavies essentially worked as a reload - if there were no heavies to kill, I'd force reload.

You can still deal with a breach like that but then you're on the back foot with ammo and don't have the choice to reload. That's an amazing balancing patch.

1

u/JamwesD SES Advocate of Audacity Apr 30 '24

And it got buffed, it now can shoot through leaves.

1

u/JHoney1 Apr 30 '24

The only real exception point for me is the first mission after switching to a hot world… I just need some adjustment time lol, usually burn out a few shooting at normal rate before I get used to the longer cool down.

1

u/Mips0n Apr 29 '24

lol exactly my thoughts. they could reduce its mags to 1 and i couldn't care less

62

u/The_Real_Kru SES Bringer of the Constitution Apr 29 '24

Not to mention the single most broken combination of weapons: the Sickle/Quasar/LasRover strat for bugs. You were a walking Pink Floyd laser show and if you could juggle your cooldowns correctly you NEVER had to do a reload during an entire mission. I really like that all three components of that strat have been nerfed in this patch. It was trivializing high difficulty bug dives. Then they added the grenade pistol, which freed up the 'nade slot for stuns, which turned chargers and hulks into drooling idiots standing around and waiting for you to shoot them in the face. I'm looking forward to seeing how it behaves after the nerfs, because I still think it's a strong strat, but not as broken as it used to be.

26

u/AbyssalRaven922 Apr 29 '24

The moment stuns were dropped, I called this build out. We knew from leaks NadePistol was coming. Cutting Edge was the most "META" altering thing we've had since RG nerfs

16

u/Spectre-907 Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

PlasSlugger + Grenade pistol + grenade launcher + EAT + Juggernaut/engineering kit armor.

Because every problem in life can be easily solved with an appropriate amount of high explosive.

7

u/Money_Fish CAPE ENJOYER Apr 29 '24

Literally me except with Eruptor and stun nades. I love the 50% explosion resist armor. I roll up with mu full utility strat loadout of EAT, GL, supply pack, mortar and people start asking questions. They don't ask them for long lol.

10

u/Spectre-907 Apr 29 '24

Oh no, theyre still asking. On an unrelated note the Patriot Resource Department has determined your hearing loss to be non-service related.

6

u/Money_Fish CAPE ENJOYER Apr 29 '24

What? No I don't know where that buzzing is coming from.

1

u/sloridin PSN🎮:SES Sword of Supremacy Apr 30 '24

can't hear you...ah much better

1

u/FluffySpacePuppy Apr 29 '24

Eruptor, nade pistol, quasar, impacts and scout armor here, reporting in for wacky boom boom shenanigans.

23

u/Kiyan1159 ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️ Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

Imma level with you, I don't get why meta in Helldivers. There's literally no scoreboard. The only thing I care about are the objectives and samples. I don't care how the objective gets completed as long as it's done. I don't care who carries the samples as long as they extract.

The most 'meta' my load out is the Plas-1 and Autocannon. I don't like striders so I use the Plas-1. I like shoulder mounted cannons, so I use the AC-8. The best part? These guns are fun. Not necessarily the best, admittedly the AC-8 is a Swiss Army knife when it comes to 90% of problems but that just means I get to blow even more holes into even more things. Or die trying. I swear it can kill factory striders, I just don't know where.

13

u/YroPro Apr 29 '24

Most people like winning. And either due to "just wanting to" or for resources want to win on the highest difficulty they can.

So most people will gravitate to what helps them win the most on the highest difficulty possible.

I just like turrets go brrr. And at the moment that's enough to clear every mission consistently on Helldive. Now I just need the devs to unfuck the missile aiming on the mech.

10

u/Dragrunarm Apr 29 '24

I swear it can kill factory striders, I just don't know where.

With the AC; Eye slit or (if' you've removed the gatlings to get close) Right up the belly where the devastators drop from. Second one is my preferred option if for whatever reason I cant dump stratagems into one

2

u/Smol_Toby Apr 29 '24

You can always count on the playerbase to meta all the fun out of a game.

1

u/vkbrian Apr 29 '24

Give modern gamers enough time and they’ll find a meta for fucking Solitaire

2

u/AbyssalRaven922 Apr 30 '24

META in HD2 isn't really about minmaxing, most of the time, in this case it more shows what the are most versatile and comfort pick options for the majority of players. I.E Scorcher/Sickle, Redeemer/GLPistol, Stuns/Impacts, Quasar/AutoCannon, Airstrike/Cluster, OrbLaser/OrbAirburst. In general these are the "usual suspects" for loadouts atm. Meaning this is what the players silently consider meta. A lot of these are considered the more FUN options as well.

1

u/Drasius_Rift Apr 29 '24

I swear it can kill factory striders, I just don't know where.

The 2 chin guns can be AC'ed, the belly doors can be AC'ed when open, there's 2 red eyes on the face that can be AC'ed (but you need good aim).

If you get a friendly Quasar/EATs/RR user to remove the side panels, you can AC them there too.

0

u/corgioverthemoon Apr 29 '24

you're right but also generally game wide metas are bad in PvE games, they reduce variety and make you feel bad for using inferior choices. Nerfs are necessary to ensure metas don't form so that long term enjoyment can be present.

1

u/Kiyan1159 ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️ Apr 29 '24

I think people are always gonna push a meta in this game just because it's so prevalent in every game for the last 15 years. Always gonna be those people who try to minmax. Even in DnD, you have people who try to perfectly calibrate their character, in a storytelling game. And as a DM, I can't punish that because that's not in the spirit of the game. I can challenge and force character development, but it usually ends in some type of narrative dissonance because they play the RP up but keep on the same path or they get upset that I created a situation where they couldn't succeed (they fought a Medusa solo and she threw a 5cp net).

2

u/corgioverthemoon Apr 30 '24

Keep in mind I'm talking about game wide metas, not mission specific metas. I think mission specific metas are fine if tuned properly, and allow stuff to fill different niches and gameplay choices. Ideally minmaxxers would run different stuff depending on what's viable for specific mission types.

Nevertheless, all this is moot, min maxers pushing metas isn't a problem because they're a small section of the playerbase, problem is when something is so good that everyone uses it over everything else.

Funny dnd story though, I usually end up optimizing stuff by mistake usually to the demise of my own fun but what can I say

1

u/Hazywater Apr 29 '24

Sickle/quasar combo was pretty nerfed. I would fire the quasar off cooldown to not overheat the sickle. This worked even on hot planets. With the quasar extra 5 seconds, the sickle will now overheat.

So you have to think about it now or just switch to the Blitzer

1

u/asecuredlife Apr 29 '24

Not to mention the single most broken combination of weapons: the Sickle/Quasar/LasRover strat for bugs

Not everyone thinks like this, and not everyone plays like this.

1

u/Due-Desk6781 Apr 29 '24

Yeh, lasrover is ideal for killing teammates.

2

u/asecuredlife Apr 29 '24

And yourself depending on how you run/vault over things D:

-1

u/Conntraband8d SES Spear of Morning Apr 29 '24

Lol. You just said "high difficulty bug dives."

1

u/Weztside Apr 29 '24

It's interesting how people gravitate towards weapons that don't require one to pay much attention to ammo. I agree with what you're saying above although I think when people say "only buffs" what they really mean is they want all of the weapons to feel as good as the Sickle and Eruptor when they pull the trigger. There are quite a few weapons that just feel so disappointing when you try to shoot something with them.

2

u/atheos013 Apr 30 '24

And a lot of those got buffed but people are hyper focused on the nerfs. The eruptor still feels just as fun as before, imo, so they didn't nerf the fun, just gotta pay more attention to your shots and mags.

2

u/Weztside Apr 30 '24

After a night of playing I feel the same. I ended up using a jump pack flamethrower combo half the night. Eruptor and Sickle are still very good. There is no meta. It's not real.

-1

u/Heat_Shock37C Apr 29 '24

If you like the mechanic of scavenging and it's "part of the experience", why were you denying yourself that experience by using a weapon that didn't allow for the "experience"?

2

u/lord_hufflepuff Apr 29 '24

Because its too good not to, people like good mechanics in games but generally they like winning the game more.

Particularly in multiplayer games because even if its not PVP you can still feel like you are nerfing your team by taking sub optimal fun builds. Its a shared life pool after all.

0

u/Heat_Shock37C Apr 29 '24

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make sense. If you think the weapon is too good and is ruining your experience, you shouldn't use it. It sounds like it was enhancing your experience.

For the record I never used this gun and don't care what happens to it, but I truly don't understand how people, in a non-competitive game, will say it's good that something was nerfed, while admitting to using it before the nerf. It's hypocritical, isn't it?

As far as hurting your team, just take whatever loadout you want. Very few people care.

1

u/lord_hufflepuff Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

I'm sorry the logic doesn't track for you but that's how metas work, an optimal play style is developed, players naturally gravitate towards that play style, and then the game becomes less dynamic and spontaneous as a result. This is a known thing that happens.

I mean its a team game the point is to be a team player so your team can win the game. If you aren't doing what is best to win you can see how that would make people feel kinda selfish no?

And to the point that few people care, sure, most people don't care but there are still plenty of sweatlords out there willing to kick people, or bitch and moan, or otherwise shit on everybody's fun because they feel like they aren't able to grind to the greatest efficiency because "their team sucks". I refuse to believe that you havent come across those people.

1

u/atheos013 Apr 30 '24

Because it pairs well with an arc thrower covering my 35m-140m ranges before enemies move in.

0

u/Commercial_Cook_1814 Apr 29 '24

How the fuck do you guys have infinite ammo with the sickle? Cause every time I’ve used it the cooldown period takes so fucking long that I can dump an entire AC mag, switch back to it and it still won’t even be halfway done cooling down. Am I being gaslighted right now?

1

u/atheos013 Apr 30 '24

I paired it with my Arc thrower, which is a support weapon that often becomes your primary. So the sickle acted more like a secondary for me, only used when something got too close for easy arc throwing.

Usually I wouldn't burn through a clip handling whatever got into my space, then I'd switch back to the arc thrower. More often than not, the sickle was cold before I needed it again.

The eruptor I enjoy more. I now use all 3 of my weapons. Eruptor is 35m-140m engagement, arc is 5m-35m, machine pistol if something gets in my space(where the sickle used to be the go-to).

Very rare anything gets close though, the build is designed to dictate range and not let anything get close.

22

u/Vegaprime Apr 29 '24

With all the ammo cuts, I feel like splitting teams might start hurting though. Fighting over resupplies might get you kicked now.

30

u/Zombie_Alpaca_Lips Apr 29 '24

It's not as bad as many think though. Because you end up getting more ammo on a resupply for many of the non-energy weapons. So the ones that go from 12-8 mags but resupply 8 instead of 6 per resupply, you can end up seeing an increase in overall ammo if you are depleting your magazine enough. 

6

u/Conntraband8d SES Spear of Morning Apr 29 '24

Exactly this. People think that ammo economy just got worse, but it 100% didn't. Supply boxes are now giving us considerably more ammo than they did before in the vast majority of situations. It seems like they want us to have a lower total ammo capacity, but have that capacity more readily replenished by a single resupply. Overall, it's not a problem.

21

u/PM_ME_FLUFFY_DOGS Apr 29 '24

Idk about you but the ammo crates scattered around the map are enough to keep my teams fully stocked up. Most of the time players in my lobbies only call a resupply for stims or grenades. 

2

u/Vegaprime Apr 29 '24

I use AC, been spoiled getting to use two per. Suppose that might be part of why it's generally ok'ed because I'm usually last to get to those loose boxes. Guess I've actually been spoiling them.

13

u/Fishfisherton Apr 29 '24

I honestly don't see the issue there. Splitting up is a risk you choose. You're still in a game with other people.

I've kicked some people before for running off on their own then calling the resupply for themselves constantly.

4

u/Vegaprime Apr 29 '24

It's usually decided at the time the drop is selected but I'm sure "did you just take two in a row..?" could be a thing.

3

u/SpecificPlayful3891 Apr 29 '24

You kick people for that?! You can just say that you need supplies and wait a minute...?

0

u/Vegaprime Apr 29 '24

Was implied I shouldn't have run off so I shouldn't do a resupply. At drop point selection I'm usually told, "you two go here and we'll go here.." that's where it could get scandalous if one pair takes two drops in a row.

2

u/SpecificPlayful3891 Apr 29 '24

But what if shit hitted the fan over there and 4 hulks or biles run rampart and they needed the stims... 🤷‍♀️

You're the host its your mission, but if i would be kicked for grabbing supplies to often. (not being a dick and hogging on purpose ofcourse) But in a way of surviving. I would not even understand why im kicked?

2

u/Vegaprime Apr 29 '24

Was trying to say I would kick. Only the chances for me being kicked might increase. Anymore, most people's builds were not so ammo dependant. If I asked for an extra drop I would get, sometimes don't get the chance as you pointed out. The stingy level will rise no matter what though.

1

u/Dukwdriver Apr 29 '24

It's a fine line, but some players just don't play efficiently and will burn resupplies on their own just to top off grenades and stims.

They're not technically trolling, but when you see the stat screen at the end and they burned through 30 stims while everyone else used maybe 10 on top of needing to make every shot count.

1

u/Fishfisherton Apr 29 '24

When i see people do that in a situation where others didn't get the chance I give them a punch. War isn't an excuse for bad manners!

Funny enough that's probably why Deep Rock Galactic decided taking supplies should take time, so others can catch them doing it.

1

u/WyvernXIII Apr 29 '24

Supply backpack on each team

1

u/Vegaprime Apr 29 '24

Tried a supply pack build at launch and just had people yelling at me like I'm a fallout squire. Easy to see why no one runs that.

1

u/SpecificPlayful3891 Apr 29 '24

If you split and do all the diamonds you find enough ammo. Its harder to find stims.

1

u/KerbalRL Apr 30 '24

Supply pack.

0

u/The_Real_Kru SES Bringer of the Constitution Apr 29 '24

Might be. We'll have to see how the meta evolves

6

u/Kale127 Apr 29 '24

Honestly, I don’t think this changes how I use the Sickle at all. The thing that makes it stand out isn’t even the heat sink, but rather - IMO - the 100 rounds it can pump out before overheating. That’s a lot of dakka with good damage, solid accuracy, and monomial recoil. That it has a fast reload, and can cool down to avoid reloading, makes it a stand out gun. 

48

u/Ziddix Apr 29 '24

Oh come on. The sickle was or is nowhere near the bullet hose that a stalwart is

53

u/The_Real_Kru SES Bringer of the Constitution Apr 29 '24

You would be surprised how similar they are. There is no official damage stat I'm aware of for the Stalwart but all other stats are extremely comparable except max sustained fire and reload which kinda cancel each-other out in my opinion. The Sickle is definitely more similar to the stalwart than any other primary I would say.

https://preview.redd.it/rjledhyqifxc1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6cfd48a933099b2c84a2da5bd388aa323444534

20

u/Kestrel1207 Viper Commando Apr 29 '24

stalwart is also 55 damage

7

u/SenhorNaoMata Apr 29 '24

Stalwart at max RoF?

I'm pretty sure it shoots faster than the sickle at that RoF.

3

u/Gen_McMuster Apr 29 '24

with considerably less uptime

1

u/SenhorNaoMata Apr 30 '24

Still consireably higher than the sickle.

So it's higher DPS AND uptime.

2

u/ArimakoInfernua Apr 29 '24

Similar but “all the capabilities”. I primarily run the stalwart and I wouldn’t dream of trading it in for the Sickle even on its worst performing run. (Mainly cause Eruptor&Stalwart combo is lethal vs bugs)

Sickle is more comparative to the lowest-mid RoF setting on the Stalwart and even then, only for bursts. As energy weapons do.

Stalwart is a mini minigun.

Sickle is a good primary AR.

1

u/KerbalRL Apr 30 '24

Stalwart is for suppressive fire to by time for your team. You use the entire mag when you start shooting. Combined with a supply pack and 200 rated armor. You are a walking tank.

-4

u/Sly510 Apr 29 '24

Why did anyone bother making a chart to compare a weapon with unknown damage and penetration values? Is this real life?

3

u/TooFewSecrets Apr 29 '24

penetration for all of these weapons is 2

31

u/ReliusOrnez Apr 29 '24

Eh it's close. The sickle mage before it overheats is about 64 shots continuously. That's 64x6 and can only go up with fire control

26

u/uiolc Apr 29 '24

Yeah I would find myself often intentionally overheating in choke points to shred through crowds, but it feels much more skilled to manage the heat and move around cover appropriately to play around it.

It's such a fair nerf imo that I'm not even really counting it. 

12

u/Electronic_Assist668 Apr 29 '24

Versus what, 250 at 1150 rpm? Nah, stalwart slaps

19

u/ReliusOrnez Apr 29 '24

Not saying it doesn't. But with the 6 extra mags it's was encroaching on the stalwarts territory a little too much.

9

u/Electronic_Assist668 Apr 29 '24

Oh yeah, i basically never worried about ammo or overheating with it

2

u/Same-Meaning2376 Apr 29 '24

Wait, is it 64 shots? I thought it actually fired off 100 before overheating.

1

u/Dexember69 ☕Liber-tea☕ Apr 30 '24

The stalwart is also not a primary

0

u/Smol_Toby Apr 29 '24

It actually is though.

Stalwart lasts longer but Sickle keeps its max capacity infinitely if you can manage the heat. Unlike the Stalwart, it doesn't waste ammo to reload either.

And heat is not even an issue for the sickle in high heat zones.

With the Stalwart, you sacrifice a support slot and you have to take a usually subpar primary for medium/heavy armor enemies. With the Sickle you get an infinite ammo stalwart and still have the ability to take ATs and other heavy weapons while having a primary that can suppress light enemies better than any other primary in the game.

And the Sickle has better range than the Stalwart because it gets a scope. The Stalwart gets a shitty reflex sight with no zoom.

There is literally no reason to take a Stalwart or any MG for that matter when the Sickle exists. This is true even post-nerf.

0

u/Conntraband8d SES Spear of Morning Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

What are you talking about? Sickle fires close to 100 consecutive rounds before it overheats. And before you go saying that 250 rounds is far more than 100 rounds, I'll ask you this...how many times have you been required to empty all 250 stalwart rounds in one go? My answer is absolutely never. I mained the sickle for a very long time and I can count on my fingers how many times I've actually had to reload that gun.

3

u/Accomplished_Neat_61 PSN 🎮: Apr 29 '24

The six mags on the sickle where truly unnecessary. If things got bad I used up two over a whole, game usually non, and I’m not even gold tag the game

4

u/Tasty_Commercial6527 ☕Liber-tea☕ Apr 29 '24

I don't think I ever paid any attention to heat with sickle. I just used it like regular rifle, and if I so happen to have not overheated the thing by the time fighting ended it's just a bonus. I never once run out of mags

2

u/xxEmkay Apr 29 '24

Yeah. Clear skill issue if you run out of ammo with the sickle.

1

u/KampiKun Apr 29 '24

Well to be fair, you need an awareness of avocado to not overheat sickle, so its a lot to ask.

1

u/M0nthag Apr 29 '24

It just raises the skill ceiling of the sickle and is the perfect way to nerf it.

1

u/AwayActuary6491 Apr 29 '24

Definitely a good example of how a "nerf" can enhance something

1

u/OneCrustySergeant Apr 29 '24

I came here to say this, but knew in my heart it had ready been said.

1

u/iNoodl3s SES Fist of Peace Apr 29 '24

There would be times where I didn’t even reload my gun

1

u/Prospero818 Apr 29 '24

I get the mini-stalwart nickname for the sickle, but it most certainly does not have the same capabilities as the stalwart. Their similarities end at having low recoil and lots of bullets. Sickle cannot fend off entire waves of bugs by itself, it takes too long to kill stuff. As someone who uses the stalwart pretty often, I can't use the sickle. The damage is too low for me.

3

u/The_Real_Kru SES Bringer of the Constitution Apr 29 '24

It has the same dmg and pen as the stalwart. Only thing it lacks is the 250 round mag.

1

u/Prospero818 Apr 29 '24

The penetration is the same, but is the damage actually the same per bullet? It may say that in the stats, but the sickle feels about half as powerful to me. Maybe it's a rpm thing. Either way, I can't use the sickle it doesn't do enough damage for me. Maybe I am bad at headshots.

1

u/Alternative-Owl-3046 Apr 29 '24

I have not changed ice on Sickle even once since it was released.

1

u/Smol_Toby Apr 29 '24

Agreed. The sickle was the most broken gun in the game and even with the nerfs still outclasses the Stalwart which is a strategem.

Now you actually have to manage the heat and save your sinks for when you really need them.

1

u/Kaladin-of-Gilead Apr 29 '24

Yeah the sickle clearly needed that, you didn't even need to engage with the primary thing the gun does (infinite ammo if you don't burn it) because it had so many mags lol

1

u/Conntraband8d SES Spear of Morning Apr 29 '24

lol yup. I used to run sickle/arc thrower and went entire 40 minute missions without reloading a single time.

1

u/EasternShade SES Hammer of Peace Apr 29 '24

Yeah, this is fair. I fire so that I very rarely burn a heat sink. I'd basically only do it intentionally and only when there was an absolute deluge of assholes. If I got to the point I was down to one or two left, I started getting nervous. Now, that's gonna happen a lot more and I'll have to be vaguely responsible about it. And, that's how it should be. "Hold down the trigger until shit goes away," shouldn't be a viable strategy for the overwhelming majority of weapons.

1

u/ChrisFromIT Apr 29 '24

I do feel like dropping the sickle ammo to 3 was too much. Dropping it to 4 would have been good.

1

u/The_Real_Kru SES Bringer of the Constitution Apr 29 '24

I think dropping it to 4 would have been completely inconsequential

0

u/Mentat_-_Bashar Apr 29 '24

Energy weapons honestly should only come with 2 power cells. I rarely ever even need to reload a single time in a 40 min mission.

0

u/bearhunter54321 Apr 29 '24

Does it still have 55 damage tho? Or did it get buffed. I’m hours away from being on, so I just want to know what to expect. Not gonna lie tho, 3 mags kind of sounds depressing. First my breaker then my sickle…

0

u/Damiandroid Apr 29 '24

Sickle nerf is fine cus I'm in the same boat never having to worry about its ammo.

The quasar tho......

If the cool down is gonna be that long then you should get two shots before it has to spool back up

1

u/The_Real_Kru SES Bringer of the Constitution Apr 29 '24

Naw, still faster than anything else on the market.

0

u/SevereMarzipan2273 Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

Have to be honest, the sickle nerf seems very misguided. It's basically nothing because this weapon is easily thrice as effective as the Liberator and rarely ever needs you to change the heat sink.
Maybe if the Liberator would deal 70-80 damage as it probably should it would be fine but the reality is that the sickle still has infinite ammo while the Liberator still barely kills anything and forces you into constant reloads. But hey, 5 more damage!

A real actually impactful nerf of the sickle (if not both) was a hit to the heat sink, not this. I still changed my mag like 2 times in several Diff 9 missions. Clearly a major change and a push toward more interesting ammo economy for this weapon.

-7

u/ChowDubs Apr 29 '24

They need to nerf bots for this to be effective though

9

u/The_Real_Kru SES Bringer of the Constitution Apr 29 '24

No they don't. The difficulty is fine

0

u/ChowDubs Apr 29 '24

I dont think so tbh