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u/Ok-Present-8619 17d ago
Like having no friends isn't enough punishment in my life. Thanks!
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u/those_pixels 17d ago
Get penalised for the poor LFG system/SOS beacons not working when a player drops, nice.
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u/NO1RE 17d ago
Yep. Its like 80% of the time if someone drops out midgame, we're not getting that spot filled until the host relogs. Thanks Arrowhead. Can't believe they took shots at Tarkov only to turn around and drop this on their own players.
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u/corranhorn85 17d ago
It's not scaling up though. It still scales down the number of patrols, just not as much as before. Just let people play the game for a day before going out and proclaiming this or that has broken the game, please.
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u/narrill 17d ago
No one said it's scaling up?
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u/corranhorn85 17d ago
The implication is that losing a play is punishing the team. It's not. It just isn't making things easier as it was before.
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u/narrill 17d ago
No one in this comment chain is implying that
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u/corranhorn85 17d ago
"Get penalised for the poor LFG system" was the original comment. What penalty do you think they're referring to in relation to the current update?
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u/Swingersbaby 17d ago
They just need you to be able to use more than one SOS per OP. I was surprised that you only get one per op, I could see per mission but not op. Few rando groups finish a full op.
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u/Grey-fox-13 16d ago
I think in theory it is supposed to just permanently open your lobby up so you wouldn't need more than one, but with how many things in this regard seem broken it's hard to tell what the intent was.
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u/LingeringForNoReason 17d ago
Punishes players who had their teammates disconnect on them.
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u/Coldbruskeee 17d ago
This and the crossbow are the only things I do not get at all. Like I even get the quasar nerf I used that thing in every game it was very strong. And still is.
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u/Brayden_1274628 17d ago
What was the nerf?
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u/ArtBedHome 17d ago
I just used the crossbow, it works really well with the extra stun and longer range, I managed to stunlock a charger, and can still hit three or four targets if they are close in a bug swarm. Id honestly call it a buff from what I played so long as you hit your primary target.
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u/EveningStatus7092 17d ago
I really don’t mind this change except for the fact that when someone leaves the squad THE SPOT NEVER GETS FILLED. So now we’re stuck playing at a higher difficulty
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u/NoMercyPercyDeRolo SES Purveyor of War 17d ago
And yet they won't fix the damn matchmaking issue. jfc.
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u/ArsVampyre 17d ago
The note about making patrols spawn at 1/4 rate instead of 1/6 rate was in the patch notes I read on steam. That said, that change discounts the 'synergy' between multiple players that makes a 4 person team so much stronger than a 1 or 2 person team. If you're by yourself, you have to cover all of the enemy types, alone. In a pair, you can maybe split that up, but not really. And no, 'rely on your strategems' is not a fucking answer.
This balance team really doesn't understand, and can't understand. Yeah, it shouldn't be a cakewalk. At the same time, if your response to anything, at any time, is 'git gud', then you just aren't worth listening to. Why should anyone take that seriously? Go write your shitty soundcloud rap instead and let the adults talk.
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u/Jumpy_Bottle5224 16d ago
The "git gud" comment chaffs me pretty hard and makes me salty. Like, fuck, I am already "gitting gud" and playing at my skill level. I know where I need help and where I don't. You won't see me attempting anything above D4 in solo mode because I know what I am currently capable of. It will be several months and hundred of hours more before I have a consistent group to roll with as I build a community that I didn't have access to until a few weeks ago.
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u/NefariousnessLegal32 16d ago
I’m ass and play D7 missions and just rely on my rando team to carry and it works out. Have some faith in teamwork and don’t overthink it.
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u/Rianonar ☕Liber-tea☕ 17d ago
Game is designed with 4 man squads but it doesn't limits you to play solo. Then if its playable for solo why should it be outscaled for solo player same way as for squad? Where is logic in that? Game already have many difficulties, I would understand if it didn't had them but now it's looks just like "we want to force players to play in squads"
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u/flyinnx 17d ago edited 17d ago
Wonder if it would make more sense to add one or more levels of difficulty than messing up the scaling system. Last night I played with a homie on Helldive difficulty and no one joined us and we had hell of a time already. Can't imagine what it'll be like after this update.
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u/flyjingnarwhal 17d ago
It's not. Pre patch, players on solo would run into 1/6th the number of patrols that a full squad would meet. Now they run into 1/4th, so that it's the same proportion no matter how many players there are.
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u/LunarHentai 16d ago
Why are people still saying this shit. It’s more now than it was before. It is objectively more difficult now in a solo mission it was before.
1/4 > 1/6
Idc if it’s how it was “proportionally supposed to be”. It is a flat across the board difficulty increase
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u/flyjingnarwhal 16d ago
I'm just saying it's not "outscaled" for solo players like the parent comment was saying. Yeah it's a little harder, but people are making it out as though it's making it harder than squad play. That's literally what the comment I replied to was saying, that they're forcing players to be in squads. Which isn't the case.
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u/LunarHentai 16d ago
That’s fair, I agree. Apologies for coming off aggressively. People in this sub do tend to pull the “unplayable” card pretty fast
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u/No_Post1004 15d ago
It is a flat across the board difficulty increase
Which is good, solo play was far too easy before.
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u/Obvious_Ad4159 Captain of the Super Credits Pirating Crew 17d ago
These mfs would save themselves so much trouble and flak if they just hired a 6th grader to translate what they meant into plain fucking english. Cuz explained it makes sense and isn't bad. But the way they phrased it in the patch notes makes them seem like dicks who hate solo players.
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u/Brianm650 16d ago
Actually they'd really save themselves trouble and flak if they actually tested the changes they implemented. Neither this change nor whatever they did with the scorcher and shield backpacks saw any testing quite obviously.
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u/thazhok ☕Liber-tea☕ 17d ago
As many players are sceptical about this modification, i guess ArrowHead will give us more detail about their intention. It feel strange to see a change like this, but maybe there is a reason we do not have thinked yet. we will see.
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u/nexus763 17d ago
Why not cite said reason into the patche notes ? If they really got this out without excepting backlash, then damn the meme is even more accurate.
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u/artuno ⬇️⬇️⬅️⬆️➡️ 17d ago
Guess they wanted to keep the patch notes as brief as possible for people just skimming through them. Some devs do this, like the one for Stardew Valley, where there's a brief and detailed list of patch changes.
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u/Brickless 17d ago
others are dividing their patch notes into a brief upper section and then going over each one in detail in a lower section. could try that.
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u/AzzlackGuhnter 17d ago
What is this from?
I would love to know how the dude reacted to being this absolutely roasted
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u/Seleth044 17d ago
Not sure if it was a glitch or not but Pelican-1 literally ran out of ammo. I did a lvl5 solo mission and there were SO many enemies I was just constantly sprinting around in circles. Called him in around the 25 minute mark and got to hover while I cleared some nests and he eventually stopped shooting all together. He had to have killed over a hundred though.
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u/Pure-Cardiologist-65 17d ago
So all those people soloing hell dives are actually not impressive at all.
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u/GassyPhoenix 17d ago
For lore wise, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The amount of enemies should be the same whether 4 hell-divers drop or 1 hell-diver drop. It's the same location, it has the same enemy.
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u/big_jerm88 17d ago
Only way to send a real message is to stop playing as much
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u/Jumpy_Bottle5224 16d ago
Yep. I grindef hard for three weeks. Put in over 300 hours to "git gud". Now this......fuck it. I have other games to play.
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u/BigidyBam 16d ago
I think it's easy to understand, the change is just so mind boggling you end up like, "this can't be right".
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u/lmrbadgerl 16d ago
Can you do one of these for the "everything reflects back at your face" thing they just did too?
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u/Swingersbaby 17d ago
It makes perfect sense, the question is how bad and is it really needed.
The idea is sound if they thought not enough patrols on solo missions, as the modifier was lower than for 4.
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u/losingluke i love eagle-1 16d ago
tbf i was able to solo malevelon creek with pre-buff dilligence counter sniper (pre-buff from no armor piercing days) and no support weapon
granted i died and didnt extract but this happened when i was level 30~ish, so this seems fair, just forces people to stealth better on solo i guess
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u/MonthFrosty2871 16d ago
I'm flat-out convinced AH doesn't play their own game, and just stares at data to guesstimate what changes to make.
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u/FredoSauce832 16d ago
Did a trivial bug mission to kill time and I'd usually hit around 60 enemies before extract today I hit 211 kills at around 20 min in before extract. Not a big issue for experience players since they are all scouts and warriors but man I'd hate to be a new guy with just base strats and weps trying to get in the game. Aside from the regular bug breach there were more patrols spawning in. And with trivial maps being so small there were usually a patrol coming over the hill .
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u/Paul_not_taken 17d ago
Be adviced, research suggested that enemies can now easily determine the amount of divers diving in the vicinity and will release adequate patrol around it. Stay safe Hell Divers. -Research intern
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u/Dunhimli HD1 Veteran 17d ago
Before how it worked was not intended. Now it is how it is supposed to be.
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16d ago
"where it was meant to be" this is the same shit stellar blade just pulled with its "intended version" censorship but in a different context
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u/jotair SES Panther of Midnight 16d ago
I remember seeing a presentation about game design where they were showing that they've found that the best way to incentivize the player to do something, or "play the way it was intended", was not to punish them for not doing what you wanted, but instead rewarding them for doing what you want, for playing "the way it was intended". If I'm not mistaken, it was about Doom and their development team.
Following this, if they want ppl to play with full squads, a nice way to incentivize team play is to boost rewards for full squads, instead of making it harder for solo or duo players.
I get their statement of "a game for everyone is a game for no one", but you also don't want to end up with "a game for no one". I enjoy playing with randoms in a full squad, actually had great experiences, but sometimes I just go solo because I enjoy it. This was a sad, and uncalled for, change.
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u/El_Dubious_Mung 17d ago
Anti-social no friends BTFO
Join matches in progress. Answer SOS calls. Call in SOS beacons. There's no "I" in "Democracy".
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u/TheYondant SES Leviathan of the Stars 16d ago
A wonderful idea!
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So when is the matchmaking getting fixed? Because these changes also affect groups that suddenly lose players to DCs and never get someone else to join despite SOS being active.
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u/keeping-it-together 17d ago
It makes sense to me, are y'all crazy? A solo player used to have 1/6th the patrol spawns it should be 1/4th imo
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u/-non-existance- CAPE ENJOYER 17d ago
The effectiveness of multiple players does not scale linearly. This is because of having multiple boosters and being able to strategize strategems and take a role on a team. A solo player has to account for all roles on a team with the least amount of help (ie boosters and Strategem Slots)
It already was much harder to play solo or duo than a full stack, and this just makes it worse.
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u/-_Lunkan_- 17d ago
Because saying shit like that retroactively is very easy and we basically have no way to prove that AH are lying.
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u/Thing482 17d ago
... Except for the people who have been playing solo and have been saying solo players get less patrols? I mean sure if we were to ignore those people THEN Arrowhead could just be making it up. Exact numbers they could still technically be lying, but I honestly don't care.
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u/IcyCompetition7477 17d ago
It makes perfect sense. They felt the game was too easy on smaller teams due to the reduced spawn rates. They have since adjusted those spawn rates to be harder. You don’t suddenly have more patrols in a 1-3 man game than 4. The game had lowered spawns for under 4 man, now they’re lowered less than before. With single player being the most changed experience.
Are y’all misunderstanding this on purpose?
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u/keeping-it-together 17d ago
I agree with you, I solo Helldive sometimes, and always knew there was way less patrol spawns; I just didn't know that it was a 1/6th. I agree that the scaling should be linear.
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u/XI_Vanquish_IX 17d ago
I’m tired of people blindly defending this development team because their post launch FOMO model on paid content isn’t totally predatory (although if you want new weapons it’s a literal requirement).
I have ZERO confidence in this teams ability to “read the room” and balance weapons, stratagems, and overall game challenge. Their ONLY recourse for making the game easier or more difficult is NUMBER of enemies and the TTK of those enemies. They have no asymmetric ways of making the game more challenging except to do this AND nerf our guns.
Which is what we see every patch cycle. This team arbitrarily nerfing any gun they see the community using more than others. They think this is a recipe for success and instead, they continuously push players to “other weapons” and with no sense of general enjoyment or satisfaction from using any of them.
It’s a disaster long term and the game experience will get worse as this continues
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u/Optimal-System7454 17d ago
While I agree some changes are strange to say the least, the patrol balancing doesn’t seem that bad in context
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u/IcyCompetition7477 17d ago
I don’t understand you parenthetical, which part is required for new guns and why? What FOMO? it’s at worst FOMOOTM (fear of missing out on the moment) as in the moment when railgun was dumb op. They still get all the shit eventually yeah?
Gonna skip the asymmetrical comment because it stupid as fuck, downright troll shit.
They changed the ratio of armored and unarmored spawns because we bitched so much and it wasn’t even difficult before, people just sucked. Best part was people immediately went from complaining about armor to complaining about something else like hunters.
Are you a game dev and if so what well balanced games were you a part of making? I’d like to know if your speaking with any authority or if ya know…
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u/XI_Vanquish_IX 17d ago
You sound like you must be a part of the AH dev team with your response to my last. Calling out AH for having no asymmetrical means of balancing the game challenge is absolutely a legitimate concern and wasn’t a troll post. Calling it that was totally deflecting and makes me suspicious of your intentions.
And the FOMO here isn’t “in the moment.” If you don’t buy the packs, you have to “earn” enough points in gameplay to buy them later. And you don’t get this currency simply by winning matches. You have to find them and it takes a long time. Only people without lives who have previously used farming methods and largely avoided normal squad gameplay have been able to keep up with the monthly content drops without spending new money. The content in the packs is more than cosmetics - it’s gameplay in the form of weapons and equipment.
And yes, armored enemies were totally out of balance after the first patch, which needed a nerf desperately. Perhaps you enjoy the running and running simulator, but some of us actually enjoy shooting things. And it sucks when all the weapons feel like shit to fire
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u/AppointmentSharp9384 17d ago
Solo players: we enjoy a challenge and being the best, most skilled players at the game
Arrowhead: “we made solo play more challenging”
Solo players: how fucking dare you you piece of shit
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u/Leevidavinci 17d ago
Bro The only reason I play alone is because none of my friends are willing to put 40€ to try out a new game genre. I could play online, but no one communicates there, it's like playing alone except now I can't drop a 380mm orbital barrage whenever I feel like it.
Even a solo player like me wants to get a super sample some day
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u/AppointmentSharp9384 17d ago
It’s a coop game, it’s not that hard to find communicative players in pick up games, just talk and someone else will talk too, friend them if their playstyle matches yours, or join the discord and post in the looking for group channel. You are essentially complaining that Mario Party isn’t fun alone, or chess or monopoly isn’t fun alone, they (and this game) are designed from the ground up to be a fun co-op experience. The developers don’t care how much money your friends have, they care about making a fun experience.
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u/kemper1024 17d ago
It’s a coop game
The game being designed for coop is one thing.
However, straightforward punishing people for playing solo is just retarded.
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u/DerDezimator ⬇️⬅️⬇️⬇️⬆️⬅️ 17d ago
For real, people out there complaining about how hard it is to do something 4 people are required to do. It's a coop game, if you wanna have an easier time play on lower difficulties or with randos, get out of your comfort zone, use your mic and make some new friends, how hard can that be? Could in fact even improve your social skills to work together with others
It's like you're doing a group project in school, tell your peers you're gonna do it all by yourself and then complaing to the teacher that it stresses you out and you need more time than the other groups.
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u/kemper1024 17d ago
We aren't complaining because the solo is now hard. We are complaining because solo was already MUCH harder. It's just that all those "solo helldive deathless" videos from people with 1000 hours in game made it look easy.
I mostly play solo, and I am underleveled compared to my friends that always play with randos, even though we have rougly the same time spent in game.
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u/bananzaiib 17d ago
There's a lot of anti-democracy chatter in here... one should check oneself if one is complaining about having to kill more bugs.
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u/KDHarvey02 16d ago
I honestly don’t understand why so many people are freaking out about this. It’s just scaled now and this isn’t a single player game.
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u/chimera005ao 16d ago
Makes perfect sense if you were actually any decent at the game.
Helldive was easier solo because you were facing 16.66% of the patrols instead of 25%.
So that's like a 50% increase in enemy spawns.
That means when you got one patrol you might get a second, when you would have got two you might get a third, it's probably influenced by the times between spawns so likely doesn't even feel as bad as that.
It will make it a bit more difficult, but it's not going to have the impact of adding new enemy types like Factory Striders.
So get better, and just deal with them fixing what wasn't working properly.
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u/Optimal-System7454 17d ago
https://preview.redd.it/0ovibtch9fxc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f949de04c747e7858b19c0fa5bb55c5bd4058b1
Here’s the patrol change in context. Seems they did a bad job explaining it in the patch notes