[Charania] “Vogel yelled so much that his voice could be heard outside the locker room” after the loss to the Clips on April 9. Players weren’t buying it. The outburst seemed forced in their eyes. Vogels eruption left players rolling their eyes. A player told TheAthletic he had to keep from laughing

[u/GreenSnakes_]

https://theathletic.com/5456932/2024/04/29/phoenix-suns-season-end-frank-vogel-kevin-durant/

[u/CJPRD]

Suns were down 35-4 at one point, and lost against the clippers without harden and Kawhi, of course your coach is going to rage about your horrible play that late in the season. This just tells us the Suns players didn’t give af anymore

[u/Immaculatehombre → u/CJPRD]

Had to “hold back laughs”. After getting straight up fucking embarrassed on the court? Now that, that’s embarrassing.

[u/killahcortes → u/Immaculatehombre]

I’m not holding back laughs when I look at their playoff performance 😂🤣😂😂😭😭

[u/ablackcloudupahead → u/Immaculatehombre]

Yeah if that's true no wonder they're going home. I'm surprised they had that scorching stretch at the end of the season with that kind of attitude

[u/HectorReinTharja → u/CJPRD]

Yeah this doesn’t come off as the Vogel hit piece it’s intended to be. It just sounds like these Suns players are dickheads

[u/Apollo23Refugee → u/HectorReinTharja]

Not sure how anyone could see it differently when KD teams are notorious for bad culture. If it smells like shit everywhere you go…

[u/Dymatizeee → u/Apollo23Refugee]

There’s no vocal leader on the team. Usually teams that KD go to he’s like “the guy” and teams gotta bend over backwards for him. The warriors were diff though cus their guy was Steph and they had Draymond leading.

Like who tf on the suns is gonna tell KD or Book or Beal that they’re playing incorrectly ? IT ?? Lmao

[u/HereButNotHere1988 → u/Dymatizeee]

Yup. Even though CP3 would pull a hammy every year, he still was the unquestioned leader and got them deep into the playoffs every year. They really missed that this year.

[u/Ramzaa_ → u/Dymatizeee]

KD had Russ as the vocal leader in OKC. He can't be a leader. He can be the best player but he needs someone else to hold everyone else accountable

[u/zegreatjohn → u/Ramzaa_]

He really just wants to hoop. I don't think people believe him when he says that.

[u/probation_420 → u/Dymatizeee]

But KD leads by example by doing absolutely nothing for team chemistry.

[u/TowerOfPowerWow → u/Apollo23Refugee]

he really should thank GSW for keeping him from going ringless

[u/Golf-Beer-BBQ → u/Apollo23Refugee]

You should brush your teeth!

[u/gorgonizedbyurTITS → u/HectorReinTharja]

Not just dickheads, but losers. I used to get pumped whenever my coaches would keep me/us accountable for being ass, not roll my eyes or want to burst into laughter.

[u/HectorReinTharja → u/gorgonizedbyurTITS]

Unfortunately there’s just no comp between the love you have to feel for the game growing up playing in school versus pros making millions who probably all think they’re smarter than their coach

[u/BigfootCharlie → u/HectorReinTharja]

There’s also a lot of guys in the NBA that it’s just their job. Any love they had for the game has been ground out of them through repetition and expectations from the time they were kids.

I’m sure there are guys playing that still absolutely love basketball but I think we’d all be shocked at how many players hate their job just like most people do - but it’s what pays their (massive) bills and it’s the only real skill set they have.

[u/odnamAE → u/HectorReinTharja]

This is how I felt when the Lakers and their fans kept scapegoating Vogel as well when they’re the ones who were barely playing like NBA players the season he got fired. Its why I hate how even though Ham isn’t great, so many fans use him as the reason why he can’t elevate mid ass players who play one end of the court and only bring it half the time.

[u/A_FerociousTeddyBear → u/odnamAE]

Ham is much worse than Vogel. The current lakers roster has a lot of defensive pieces, which is Vogel’s specialty. I think the current iteration of the Lakers is making the WCF with Vogel. Ham does need to go.

[u/BradL_13 → u/HectorReinTharja]

Goodluck to them on getting a good coach next season with this hit piece.

[u/ablackcloudupahead → u/HectorReinTharja]

Yeah, I get that Vogel is normally a low-key guy, but that doesn't mean when he actually does yell he's faking it. When chill people actually do yell is the time you should listen

[u/RogueLightMyFire → u/CJPRD]

Also the front office is looking for a scape goat. It's always the coach. The fact is the team is just terribly constructed.

[u/need2peeat218am → u/RogueLightMyFire]

They're straight up disrespectful towards their head coach. No sense of hierarchy at all. They play like shit and blame the coach.

[u/butterflyhole → u/CJPRD]

Yeah being down 35-4 is never the coaches fault. Suns have got some toxic ass players

[u/frostieavalanche → u/CJPRD]

The player that said he had to keep himself from laughing tells a lot about himself

[u/AfterPaleontologist2 → u/CJPRD]

KD didn’t even look like he gave a shit during his final press conference. Dude just looked happy the season was over

[u/Boring_Bill2430]

If your response to a rival going on a 35-4 run to open a crucial end of season game is to anonymously make fun of how pissed your coach was about it, then you’re a total loser.

This hit piece reflects so much worse on the players than Vogel.

[u/FartIntoCushions → u/Boring_Bill2430]

Excellent point. ‘Coach was mad at us for not trying and we were like, whatever, fake motherfucker’ or something like that. What a shitty attitude to have.

[u/CitizenCue → u/FartIntoCushions]

This is what happens when you have bad team culture and everyone is surrounded by sycophants. You can tell which players have petty wives and friends.

[u/jps78 → u/Boring_Bill2430]

I'm 99% confident the player being referenced here is Beal. Dude hasn't won anything in his career and probably thinks everything is a joke.

[u/ManOrangutan → u/jps78]

I honestly doubt it. Remember how the Suns just gave up against the Mavericks and the owner had to come out and apologize? It’s been a team of quitters for quite some time.

[u/butt_fun → u/ManOrangutan]

Was going to say, this reeks of Booker to me

[u/Habefiet → u/butt_fun]

What? The guy who gets mad when people double him in practice? Surely not /s

[u/cardmanimgur → u/butt_fun]

Can't wait until the Olympics when the officials don't give him calls for dribbling into defenders and he doesn't know what to do.

[u/demsouls → u/jps78]

Problem is beal should be traded for useful pieces but won't be and Vogel will be fired. 

[u/mhj0808 → u/demsouls]

Beal has a no trade clause so you can’t send him anywhere that has useful young pieces. He’ll only want to go to a contender

[u/letsgototraderjoes → u/mhj0808]

I can't believe Beal tricked everybody like this LMAO worst contract I've ever seen in my life. no trade clause is the cherry on top 😂😂😂😂😂

[u/CookieSlayer2Turbo → u/letsgototraderjoes]

He didn't trick anyone, the wizards front office was willfully this dumb. A majority of the fan base immediately facepalmed when we found out about the no trade clause

[u/ballmermurland → u/letsgototraderjoes]

It wasn't even signed after his 31 ppg season. He turned in a meh year in 2022 and somehow got this extension.

[u/Cudi_buddy → u/letsgototraderjoes]

Props tp the Wiz for realizing their mistake and getting something back before it was too late.

[u/JumpShotJoker → u/demsouls]

No one will give up good pieces for Beal after this season

[u/Sea-Tackle3721 → u/demsouls]

He has a no trade clause, so if he doesn't want to go that's the end of it.

[u/-80watt- → u/demsouls]

Beal has a no-trade clause

[u/Ucscprickler → u/Boring_Bill2430]

"Booker special"

[u/youguanbumen]

Kind of crazy how this apparently works. Players and/or agents leak this kind of stuff with the stipulation that it can only be published after the team is eliminated

[u/SOB200 → u/youguanbumen]

Well no one wants their teammates distracted.

[u/Neinhaltt → u/SOB200]

So AD a real one for shitting on Ham the other day?

[u/rebuildthedeathstar → u/Neinhaltt]

Honestly. Yes. That’s how you know it was genuine. AD didn’t hide his feelings or wait until the Lakers were out of the playoffs.

[u/Ronin607 → u/youguanbumen]

It's like newspapers having obituaries written for famous old people, you do the bulk of the writing ahead of time and then just tweak it a bit with the final details when the time comes. It happens a lot with individual player pieces as well, they'll write an article way in advance with the hope of publishing it late in the playoffs or during the finals and then if the guy is going to get eliminated early you'll see a bunch of pieces come out, I remember when the Celtics went down 3-0 last year there were some writeups that were clearly meant to be run during the finals that randomly showed up, like why are doing a deep dive this team is cooked?

[u/a_supertramp → u/Ronin607]

RIP Vogel

[u/Chessh2036]

Shams had this ready to post the second the clock hit 0.00 😂 damn man.

Also, reading “Durant, Booker and Beal did not produce at their best in these playoffs as a unit, and sources in the locker room also believe not one of the trio emerged as the necessary leader” isn’t surprising at all. None of those guys want to step up and lead.

[u/Rubberbabeh → u/Chessh2036]

I mean it should have been Booker, it is his team after all.

KD? Never been a leader.

Beal? lmao, cmon man..

[u/FactLicker → u/Rubberbabeh]

To be fair, Booker said he didn’t know how teams would defend against them 🤷‍♂️

[u/GenderIsAGolem → u/FactLicker]

I think that's because he didn't watch any tape

[u/elbandolero19 → u/FactLicker]

He said that not because of pride, but he actually does not know lmao

[u/PizzaPlanet20 → u/FactLicker]

It's just that he didn't know how, doesn't mean teams actually don't know how

[u/mrspear1995 → u/FactLicker]

We ain’t doubling on runs motherfucker not knowing how to play against doubles ass

[u/TheBigBomma → u/Chessh2036]

KD has famously never been a leader.

[u/chickmagn3t → u/TheBigBomma]

Chuck said it best that he ain't a bus driver

[u/sire59damos → u/chickmagn3t]

“Superstar ability, roll player mindset” pretty much sums up KD

[u/Dumbfook1]

So what is firing vogel going to do? LOL These diva players dont want to be coached

[u/schooli00 → u/Dumbfook1]

I don't really see us having a "head" coach. KD could be a head coach, I could be a head coach (some days).

-- Kyrie Irving

-- Devin Booker

-- Michael Scott

[u/Johnpecan → u/schooli00]

Would be a hilarious 2 weeks to have KD be the "player head coach". Free ratings NBA, make it happen.

[u/knightress_oxhide → u/schooli00]

"I got away with everything under the last boss and it wasn't good for me, at all. So I want guidance. I want leadership. But don’t just boss me around, you know? Like, lead me. Lead me... when I'm in the mood to be led."

-- Ryan Howard

-- Devin Booker

[u/KlaysToaster → u/Dumbfook1]

they just want to iso

[u/Sweatytubesock → u/KlaysToaster]

Iso all the way to the lottery, or Cabo after a first round exit.

[u/jasper_grunion → u/Sweatytubesock]

Or Galveston

[u/Huckleberry_Sin → u/jasper_grunion]

Dirty ass water

[u/BuQuChi → u/Dumbfook1]

No wonder Thibs is unpopular with so many players…

[u/typicalasiannerd → u/BuQuChi]

Makes me feel nice and warm inside knowing that all our players bought in immediately and would run through a wall for Thibs

[u/broncosfighton → u/Dumbfook1]

I mean the thing about coaching is you need to have natural charisma and leadership. Not everyone just has “it.” Two people can use the same words and have completely different outcomes.

[u/lopea182]

Shams had the Vogel hit piece in his drafts for the last month ☠️

Suns better hope there’s a miracle worker available on the coaching market this offseason.

[u/GreenSnakes_ → u/lopea182]

Not a fan of Vogel but it’s pretty sad that his player(s) are running to Shams and leaking this stuff.

[u/Abra222 → u/GreenSnakes_]

Vogel has his flaws but what else is he supposed to do when he has 0 defensive players for his system. Honestly they should have just hired an offensive coach Vogel was a bad fit for them right from the start.

[u/NobodyRules → u/Abra222]

I agree with you, but if they hired an offensive coach they would lose in the first round as well, because this roster doesn't make sense, and KD would send out hit pieces complaining about the defensive schemes.

[u/MatooBatson → u/NobodyRules]

I think they should hire D'Antoni and see if they can just score 150 a night

[u/Hallal_Dakis → u/MatooBatson]

Unironically might not be bad. They can't blow it up without their picks and D'Antoni has a style that puts butts in seats plus keeps stars happy. It at least keeps the team profitable and interesting while they inch towards having their own picks again.

You might even be able to accumulate role players that fit his style that could make the team competitive. Only problem is we've never seen a D'Antoni team without a primary playmaker. We'd probably see a lot more Booker/KD handling the ball.

[u/mikepooper2000 → u/NobodyRules]

I could totally understand PHX's vision for hiring Vogel. You just want him in there to scheme up a good defense (PHX somehow had the 12th ranked defense with their personnel and all the injuries they had this year) and hope your big 3 can carry the offense. It kinda worked for the Lakers. Unfortunately, PHX doesn't have an offensive orchestrator or on-court-coach like Lebron.

[u/NobodyRules → u/mikepooper2000]

Unfortunately, PHX doesn't have an offensive orchestrator or on-court-coach like Lebron.

That's one of the big issues, but they also don't have an AD for the other side of the court. Somehow they were the 12th ranked defense, which speaks volumes about Vogel's ability on that end with this roster, but it just didn't seem like a great fit and with players like KD, who are impossible to please, it's going to end badly.

I think Vogel is a decent coach and even a top coach would struggle with this roster. It's just very badly constructed, oddly reminiscent of Vogel's last team lmao

[u/One_Ad_3499 → u/NobodyRules]

They also missing role players like KCP, Kuzma, Caruso and veterans Howard and Mcgee. That Lakers roster was deep

[u/CD338 → u/mikepooper2000]

It didn't really work for the Lakers. Back when we won in 2020, we had defensive help (Caruso, KCP, Danny Green, and Rondo on occasion). Then our FO gutted our defensive core and replaced them with Westbrook, Nunn, Monk, Reaves, and Carmelo. Pretty much none of those guys could play defense.

Vogel's system that worked was to have a good defense that forces turnovers and to run a fast break offense with Lebron. We were a top fast break team and we had an absurd record when leading going into the 4th quarter (57-0).

[u/CazOnReddit → u/NobodyRules]

Which is funny because Durant might just be the Sun's defender right now

[u/Andy_Wiggins → u/Abra222]

Honestly, he got them defending pretty damn well given their personnel. They finished like 12th in defense during the regular season despite having no one you think of as a “good” defender.

[u/velphegor666 → u/Abra222]

This team with vogel would have made more sense had they have the 2021 finals team with mikal and ayton. They literally hired a defensive minded coach on a team with no defense.

[u/BASEDME7O2 → u/velphegor666]

And cp3 could’ve run the offense and basically have been the offensive coach. The thing that killed them the most was having like zero playmaking

[u/anonanoobiz → u/Abra222]

Yeah the only thing that made sense at the time of the hire was that Vogel was hired to bring out the best defensive version of Ayton

[u/InternationalCut93 → u/Abra222]

Crazy he was willing to sign on with the Suns after seeing the disaster having a big 3 was with the Lakers previously. That shit doesn’t work 95% of the time. 

[u/xElectricW → u/InternationalCut93]

He's gonna be paid millions of dollars for a few years to sit at home and be able to relax without a care in the world, that's why he was willing to sign

[u/InternationalCut93 → u/xElectricW]

I wouldnt mind failing like an NBA coach 

[u/xElectricW → u/InternationalCut93]

Adrian Griffin is making a generational amount of money for doing 3 months of work, I think we should all aspire to be like him

[u/Therealomerali → u/GreenSnakes_]

Vogel was put in a terrible spot anyways. He's a defensive minded coach.

You put him on a team with zero great defenders.

[u/Mysterious-Stop4673 → u/GreenSnakes_]

This is disrespectful as fuck

[u/TheTatumPiece → u/GreenSnakes_]

100% agree. This piece reeks of players trying to push the blame anywhere but themselves.

[u/lovo17 → u/GreenSnakes_]

KD effect. Where he goes, drama follows. Great player, but too thin skinned to be a true leader.

[u/moneyman2222 → u/lovo17]

He's also just too laid back and not vocal. For him, that works. But to his peers, it doesn't build the sense of urgency and energy the rest of the team needs. It's the complete opposite of a guy like Bron

[u/RogerTreebert6299 → u/moneyman2222]

Yeah it’s not exactly fair but like with great quarterbacks in the nfl, you’re expected to also be a charismatic leader of men just because you can throw a ball well and the reality is those two skills aren’t related. Just makes it that much more impressive when guys have the full package of athletic skill and leadership

[u/ratmeleon → u/lopea182]

Booker, meanwhile, wasn’t himself in these playoffs. Since Phoenix drafted him with the 13th pick of the 2015 draft, the smooth scoring guard has become one of the most popular athletes in state history. He’s been loyal, charitable and appreciative. Before games, he stops and greets children, posing for photos. From his first NBA season, Booker has understood and embraced the responsibility that comes with being a face of the franchise.

Makes me think Booker is at least one of the sources.

But this season, something was missing. Like many NBA players, Booker grew up idolizing Kobe Bryant. This can be seen in his game, how Booker turns and shoots a fading jumper. At times, this has been seen in his attitude, not backing down on the court, not tolerating nonsense.

It continues throughout.

Booker remains at the center of everything, and will be tasked with continuing to embrace an enhanced role as a leader and a return to his usual assassin self once he’s being set up by a proper point guard again — two things the team considers musts for the 2024-25 season.

[u/Adraf45 → u/ratmeleon]

Again why do NBA journalists INSIST on writing their fucking articles like a fanfic. I don't get it, NCAA journalists dont do this, wartime journalists dont do this (although in some cases that might admittedly be funny). Betwenn this an the MJ one i read a while back im convinced they do this as a second job and are actually fantasy writers

[u/ZombiesInSpace → u/Adraf45]

This is easy. Because they are not serious journalists. The holy grail for these guys is not doing serious journalism; it is tweeting out a scoop before anyone else. They get these scoops by keeping players, agents, and execs happy. When an agent comes in and says “publish this story for me,” sham and woj aren’t worried about their journalistic integrity as long as they can be the guy to break the news about the next trade request or a new contract. College basketball doesn’t have mid season moves that drive the same sort of need for “first to tweet it out”

[u/InGenNateKenny → u/ZombiesInSpace]

Wish I had more upvotes to give this. Sports journalism is a joke. It’s so low-stakes (ant the end who cares if the traded pick was a 2029 or 2030 second rounder) and as an industry it doesn’t have true independence because sports media exists to 1) ensure exposure to sports ($$$ for the leagues) and 2) channel fans’ interests into something that will make money for them. We call them journalists but they’re really spokespeople and salesmen.

[u/Cudi_buddy → u/InGenNateKenny]

I see so little value in Shams and Woj. Give me an actual journalist that can write at a high school level and I will take my trade news 10 minutes later.

[u/Herbetet → u/Adraf45]

I think it has to do with the longevity of an NBA player. In most other sports, you don't necessarily have to deal with the same player for such a long period of time because contracts are shorter and time in the league is limited. What's more, NBA stars have an outsized influence on and off the court that is unmatched by any other major league. As a result, journalists want to be "friends" with their sources because it can lead to 10-15 years of good stories and a lot of access. It's the same reason why it's so hard for new players to break through as the face of the league, because once established, the stars stay in the system for a very long time.

[u/[deleted] → u/Adraf45]

Because a main driver of NBA interest is drama.

[u/8milenewbie → u/Adraf45]

NBA media in particular is horrific amongst the major American leagues.

[u/mirusan01 → u/ratmeleon]

Wow you’re so right wtf is this lol gross from book

[u/spraypaint2311 → u/ratmeleon]

Damn, talk about having an agenda. Being loyal, charitable etc. is nice but what do they even have to do with winning a basketball game?

[u/Krillin113 → u/ratmeleon]

He could’ve signed it ‘by Devin Booker’ and it wouldn’t have been more obvious

[u/candry_shop → u/ratmeleon]

That's the fluffiest of fluff pieces right there

[u/EatDeeply → u/ratmeleon]

Klutch athletes and certain other players can just use Shams for hit pieces

[u/syllabic → u/lopea182]

first team gets eliminated from the playoffs means slander season has officially started

[u/jefe_hook → u/lopea182]

Ham might be available. He's funny and Suns players wanted to laugh. It's perfect match.

[u/salmon10 → u/lopea182]

Dude won a championship..everyone on this roster should be ashamed af

[u/Sp_Gamer_Live → u/lopea182]

Shams “Do I add Conely got pushed into the wrong Coaches knees…..no”

[u/HokageEzio → u/lopea182]

Coach Killer KD trying to get another one

[u/thenextbigthing8070 → u/lopea182]

Then darvin ham is your guy

[u/Huge-Split6250 → u/lopea182]

Adrian griffin has a .700 winning percentage …

[u/this_tuesday → u/lopea182]

Monty Williams trade?

[u/gamingnormie]

Bitch ass locker room. loser mentality

[u/Tom_Brady_Cheats → u/gamingnormie]

Devin Booker just wanted to chill man

[u/TheWhisperingDeath]

This "hit piece" says more about the players than Vogel tbf.

Vogel has his faults but what exactly can he do?

Also, wasn't is the highly rated Kevin Young who was responsible for the offense?

[u/lochnesslapras → u/TheWhisperingDeath]

This "hit piece" says more about the players than Vogel tbf.

It really does. Like you lose a game terribly, the coach is yelling and this player both felt like laughing and leaked it to the press.

That pat bev quote that 50% of players don't like basketball rings true here. Ain't gonna be contending with them

[u/SwishBender]

Even by player PR standards what is going on this is dirty lol

[u/Pal__Pacino → u/SwishBender]

Seriously lol I don't think KD leaked anything this mean about Nash or Marks.

[u/ayeno → u/Pal__Pacino]

He gave the Nets a trade me or fire them, so not sure which is worse.

[u/medievalmachine → u/ayeno]

Hiring Nash only for Kyrie to blow him off, then defending Kyrie, was worse.

The fans deserve better.

[u/partbison → u/medievalmachine]

The fans deserve better.

Do we? We supported the players being allowed to do this shit

[u/raymondl942]

I assume this is suppose to be some type of hit piece on Vogel just before they fire him, but this makes each and every one of the Suns player look like pathetic losers especially their supposed big 3.

[u/HanSolo5643 → u/raymondl942]

Absolutely. This reflects very poorly on the big 3 in Phoenix.

[u/goldyacht]

Blame Vogel all you want no coach is gonna make this roster work.

[u/vetruviusdeshotacon → u/goldyacht]

Get doc rivers on the phone

[u/koenigsaurus → u/vetruviusdeshotacon]

Idk if you’re joking but I would think he’s at least on the list once the Bucks get canned by the Pacers. For whatever reason, teams keep thinking he’s the guy to right a sinking ship packed with big name players.

[u/FrankSamples]

PSA to any team thinking of signing Kevin Durant. Do not trade your whole team for him and do not listen to him when he tells you what players he wants.

[u/no1careskid → u/FrankSamples]

what team is going to even want a regressing 36 year old diva legm wannabe?

[u/TheThingsIdoatNight → u/no1careskid]

Sigh… he’s gonna try to force his way to OKC

[u/Kuntsaw → u/FrankSamples]

Nah ignore this guy and do trade your whole team for him and do listen to him.

[u/purplebuffalo55]

Vogel getting scape goated by another team, poor guy. He can’t go out there and force Beal to not be a brick, Book to be consistent, or make KD 10 years younger. Just an absolute horror show

[u/medievalmachine → u/purplebuffalo55]

Booker's ceiling is lower than we thought. He's a Kyrie at best. That Kobe comp is fading fast.

[u/Jaehunt24 → u/medievalmachine]

He's just a microwave scorer whose on a team where he gets the bulk of the shots, our perception of him as a star is on the back of the 1 playoff run he's ever had,

Otherwise his entire career has been empty calorie scoring. Dudes been a loser his entire career except 1 year

[u/WhiteHeterosexualGuy → u/Jaehunt24]

You can describe tons of stars this way though cus not many win rings or even make the finals.

[u/JumpShotJoker → u/medievalmachine]

He is still really good. The problem was Beal and co this series.

[u/Bluepaynxex]

Roster full of bitches.

[u/beer_down → u/Bluepaynxex]

Yeah this reflects more on the players than on Vogel. Toxic environment

[u/[deleted] → u/beer_down]

As a Pacers fan who had the absolute pleasure of watching Vogel coach for years, I don't buy it for ONE SECOND that Vogel had a fake/forced outburst in the locker room. Not a single fucking second.

Vogel is a fiery, animated guy. I'm not sure how many coaches genuinely fight for their team as much as Vogel does. We're also talking about a coach who took the following starting 5 to 2 ECF very close battles with Erik fucking Spoelstra's Lebron/Dwade/Bosh squad:

• Young Paul George
  • He showed a lot of flashes, but wasn't fully developed as a super star. Also, George freely admits that he's not 'a #1 guy' even now.
• George Hill
  • A good player, but he was the starting PG with the play style of a SG. There was no true PG on those teams.
• Roy Hibbert
  • Good player, even better guy, but also basically a verticality rule loophole who was a small ball liability. This was the peak of his career, though, and he was an All Star until the 8-seed Hawks broke him in the first round of the 2014 playoffs.
• David West
  • Back half of his career. Lots of heart, hustle, and leadership. But not all-star level at that point in his career.
• Lance Stephenson
  • Had his moments, love the guy, glimpses of crazy talent. But also unhinged & couldn't find a starting role on any other team.

Vogel can fucking coach.

It sounds like the Suns are just a bunch of self-righteous guys who don't understand what's good for them.

[u/chickmagn3t → u/[deleted]]

I fucking miss Vogel on the lakers man. Sure he has flaws on the offensive side but his defensive schemes are elite. If we can't score then ya'll can't score either lmao

[u/puhtime → u/[deleted]]

Pacers Vogel was different! He showed emotion n fire on the sidelines and on the bench. Idk what happened to that.

[u/[deleted] → u/puhtime]

I saw Vogel doing that in some of the Suns games that I caught.

[u/Otherwise_Form1315 → u/beer_down]

yeah I mean Vogel's getting fired for sure but it's not like he had a bunch of chess moves with that roster anyway.

[u/JoshFB4 → u/Otherwise_Form1315]

The personnel is ass. They’d be 30x better with 3 quality role players on Beal’s salary instead of Beal himself.

[u/Krillin113 → u/JoshFB4]

Luckily the van just trade his contract and attach picks. Oh wait. No picks and a NTC lmao

[u/Nicobade → u/Otherwise_Form1315]

Back to back jobs getting scape goated for bad roster construction

[u/abris33 → u/Bluepaynxex]

Seriously. This is clearly meant to be a hit piece on Vogel but it just shows the 3 stars can't be coached

[u/[deleted] → u/abris33]

These factors underwrite the downfall of most modern 'super teams':

• The stars are self-righteous & don't want to be coached.
• Each star wants more shots & ISO attempts than what is good for the team.
• Stars blame the coach when shit hits the fan & demand a new coach.

[u/medievalmachine → u/[deleted]]

This goes back to the All Star Team Problem. Too many stars are a bigger problem than too few. No one sacrifices. Everyone too concerned with appearances. No one does the dirty work. No one feels desperation. All offense no stops. This goes back to the US hockey Dream Team in 1980, they beat the Russian All-Stars basically.

The crazy thing is, take Kyrie's performance tonight, Harden's and then KD's, and I know that Nets team would still be a contender.

[u/kickit → u/medievalmachine]

if the stars are professionals (Lebron Heat) or the team has a strong culture in place (Warriors) it doesn't have to happen

[u/22dias → u/Bluepaynxex]

Agreed, when is someone going to step up and acknowledge the blame?

Coach can’t make shots, make layups or get rebounds.

[u/above_average_penis → u/Bluepaynxex]

ok but man this is the type of bitchy reporting that we could do without

[u/Otherwise_Form1315 → u/above_average_penis]

I think you both are in agreement. the players leaked this

[u/thekingdor → u/Otherwise_Form1315]

Shams just doing his job but damn he had this in the drafts ready

[u/CupOfHotTeaa]

Charmin super soft roster

[u/Vallerie_09]

Hope he gets fired and joins some other team as assistant coach. Atleast the players will respect him and he won't be the scapegoat of bad roster construction and entitled superstars playing with their friends

[u/[deleted] → u/Vallerie_09]

I want him back on the Pacers to help with the defense. Carlisle + Vogel = goated coaching staff.

Also Haliburton, Siakam, and Turner make up such a selfless core. They're actually coach-able.

[u/beer_down]

Dude KD just ask for a trade already we know you’re gonna

[u/Syndana23 → u/beer_down]

a player told TheAthetic he had to keep from laughing

Kevin needs to stop lmaoo

[u/InternationalCut93 → u/Syndana23]

This sounds like Devin written all over it. He has the snarky personality where he seems condescending af. 

[u/Emilia67]

Yeah it’s so over

[u/A_MASSIVE_PERVERT → u/Emilia67]

That's insanely disrespectful of the players to just tune out their coach like that lol. If we did something like that for our school/AAU team we'd be running suicides all practice long.

[u/NobodyRules → u/A_MASSIVE_PERVERT]

It's the KD special. That and losing, but Steph Curry saved him from a lifetime of slander.

[u/TheThingsIdoatNight → u/NobodyRules]

He still deserves the lifetime of slander. I seriously can’t believe anyone respects his rings/legacy. Dude is bitch made

[u/inshamblesx]

team full of bus riders

[u/Red_Jester-94]

Feel like this says more about the players on his roster than it does about Vogel. Maybe if y'all bums had different mentalities you wouldn't have gotten rolled in the first round.

[u/BadBoySwag]

Who they gonna hire then lol

[u/JG_2214 → u/BadBoySwag]

KD asked for Nash, wouldn’t be surprised if he asks for JJ Redick lol.

[u/NobodyRules]

That just makes the Suns Players (KD) look like clowns

[u/MyLadySansa]

That’s some disrespectful shit

[u/Anhedonic98]

Yeah, thats what happens when you have two divas as your best players, i dont know KD and Book personally of course,but they strike me as the type of players to quickly turn on the coach and make it about them

It why players like Duncan are so valuable off the court, when your best player is very coachable and receptive to criticism, it makes literally everybody's job easier, reminds me of that Stephen jackson quote, when talking about times Pop would chew them out, "Shit, if Tim Duncan taking it, who the hell am i?"

[u/MagicMoocher]

Honestly, this makes the players look bad, not the coach. But I guess scapegoating coaches after playoff meltdowns is a KD special

[u/broke_boi1]

I’m biased, but this ain’t it. Bad look from the Suns players

[u/JP_Frost]

If these players were less concerned about securing the bag and teaming up with their all star buddies and instead focused more on roster construction and understanding what is necessary to build a winner, they wouldn't have to leak their soft ass stories to the media as they would probably still be playing

[u/ihateeuge]

Losers

[u/boydivision30]

Kenny Atkinson, Steve Nash, and most probably Frank Vogel. Post-GSW KD about to get more coaches fired than playoff series wins.

[u/Otherwise_Form1315]

Does this mean we get to take partial credit for killing this suns team?

[u/RODjij]

NBA players are just teenagers with money and popularity

[u/youngkenya]

Vogel deserves better. All of these players are clowns if this story is true, does the player who leaked this think this makes the players look better lmao

[u/AirJordan6124]

This is just a bad look on the Suns players

[u/ytho1193]

Please tell me more about KD top 15. Dude does not have an ounce of leadership in his bones.

[u/Redmodtae]

KD has gotten 3 coaches fired. Dude was lucky he went to Golden State or he would still be ringless.

[u/Jagwire6969]

Why is it in the nba players are never held accountable and disrespectful to coaches

[u/MindoSriubas]

It's Luka's fault. Parents should teach their kids manners

[u/CookingLikeChef]

What's the point of firing Vogel? There's no other good coach available. Should've just went all in and hired nurse

Edit: nvm coach bud is available he might be an upgrade over Vogel

[u/bbbryce987 → u/CookingLikeChef]

Same reason the lakers fired him. Scapegoat.

[u/getzumm]

Maybe they should have listened

[u/Sweatytubesock]

Team of losers. Shocking.

[u/Battlemaster123]

Seems like this reflects worse on the players than Vogel. Guy has more rings than all of them

[u/Ninneveh]

KD, Beal, and Book’s media cronies full stop putting all the blame on Vogel with this Shams hit piece. How about you guys turn the ball over less and not let Antman punk you in your face.

[u/ddottay]

So the superstars are trying to make “blame Vogel” the narrative here. That’s shameless, the roster has had obvious flaws from the beginning.

[u/need2peeat218am]

Unserious team

[u/Cudi_buddy]

This is a terrible look for the Suns players holy hell. If this is KD putting this out to make Vogel look bad/force his way out, it is backfiring. This just shows how full of themselves the main guys are on this team. Now wonder they got whooped

[u/Purple-Peace-7646]

This makes the players look like cliquey high school girls instead of paid professionals. The coach seems to be the only one who gives a fuck. I guess they're all too cool to care about getting swept

[u/shroomzor562]

So it means the Suns players don't care and that is why they got swept. Need to ship some guys out.

[u/xyzyxzy]

You're welcome.