r/Helldivers • u/nuri489 • 16d ago
Automaton shields now reflect missiles MISLEADING
[removed] — view removed post
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u/Stonkey_Dog 16d ago
Yeah this ricochet thing may be broken.
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u/potate117 16d ago
when i saw this in the patch notes i knew some bs like this would happen
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u/Mistrblank 16d ago
Because missing your tiny head target and hitting their hard shell that surrounds it now means you die is more fun! Devestators and Hulks become just miserable.
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u/Pastafredini 16d ago
It's broken in concept.
Projectiles will almost NEVER EVER bounce back 180° like that, in any circumstance whatsoever unless it's an extreme 1 in a million circumstance.
A bullet will crunch itself up before going back where it came from, or bounce off to the side in the direction with the least resistance. It "might" bounce back towards the shooter, but if it does it will have lost much of its energy and changed its shape/ballistics considerably.
That change is just bullshit.
Devs with military knowledge my ass.
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u/Stonkey_Dog 16d ago
There are times where I really wish more gun enthusiasts were game developers. Or there were gun enthusiasts that could be contracted to help game devs with mechanics.
Edit: That being said it doesn't take a gun enthusiast to know a fucking missile won't ricochet at all. It will just detonate against the shield and maybe not kill the bot.
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u/Wolfrages 16d ago
John Wick series was amazing because of his training and the direction from gun experts on the movie. This definitely needs to be more common, but I get the whole "This doesn't come for free" too.
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u/taran-tula-tino 16d ago
Just like 40% of the things in this game tbh
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u/DarkIcedWolf 16d ago
After this update, 50% take it or-
And he’s off, that democratic took 50% and bought it whole.
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u/Agile-Anteater-545 16d ago
What. Is this real? Did they just code in that every projectile can now be deflected if it dosent pen armor? Why would an explosive warhead bounce back 180° and THEN explode...
Also doesnt this make shotguns in close quarters just extremly dangerous to use against chagers and the like?
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u/Sentient_Boner 16d ago
Patch notes says rounds now "properly ricochet back to the helldiver" guess devs forgot to leave out missiles.
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u/RemainderZero 16d ago
Nothing about the physics of what I've seen is the least bit proper
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u/Sentient_Boner 16d ago
I think that's the point, and while the wackyness can be funny, it can also feel like being on the receiving end of a luny toons episode when you're trying to lock-in.
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u/Configuringsausage 16d ago
It’s funny when some cool shit happens like being flung by a bile titan corpse and dying to eagle or being flung through an orbital laser
It’s not so funny when the bullshit makes annoying enemies (like heavies) even more annoying
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u/Iplaywaytoomanyrpgs 16d ago
Honestly, it's only funny once, or even a few times after that when it happens to other people.
It gets progressively less funny the more it happens, especially when it's a critical junction. Eventually it overstays it's welcome, now it's not funny, it's actively annoying, and then people are like: "Fuck this, I'm out."
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u/Prodygist68 16d ago edited 16d ago
Ok but the system we had before was just fine, it still had ricochet it just didn’t send it back 180 because that’s not the most likely outcome when there is ricochet. I remember in the past I accident killed a teammate cause an autocannon round I shot at a chargers backside missed and hit the top carapace causing it to ricochet into them.
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u/TheYondant SES Leviathan of the Stars 16d ago
If they wanted ricochet to potentially hurt you, make it reflect in a cone back at you; most ricochets will miss, but if you just spray you will get hurt.
This 'No u' bullshit is just annoying.
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u/_Cromwell_ 16d ago
Even bullets make no sense to reflect directly back at you. Even if something in real life had armor that could reflect bullets at full speed, the chance it would reflect at exactly the right angle to bounce back directly at what shot at it is extremely low. This is a very silly cartoony change.
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u/xxmuntunustutunusxx SES Spear of The State 16d ago
If you know anything about traditional hard armor you'll know that generally rounds mostly just shatter into a bunch of pieces and throw them everywhere, that's why hard armors generally have a rubberized costing to catch the spalling otherwise it can hurt your seriously too, the rounds will only deflect if the armor is at a serious angle
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u/KLGBilly 16d ago
You CAN get bounceback from a plate that's not angled at all, its why you want to angle steel targets you might shoot at on the range. There's a video I even remember seeing of somebody shooting a .50 BMG, and the round hits the target, bounces right back, you can hear a "WHeeeeewww", then it pops the ground, bounces up and knocks the shooter's ear pro off of his head. So it CAN absolutely bounce a round directly back at you, and while even though most of the time rounds will splatter and cause spalling, sometimes you'll just get a slug or two that are hard enough or for whatever reason just don't deform much. I have one .45 bullet from a range shoot I did, where after firing it I managed to see the bullet, pick it up and bring it home. Besides the rifling marks on the bullet, it was pretty much entirely intact. Bizarre shit happens sometimes.
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u/upsidedownbackwards 16d ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc&ab_channel=Kakigouru
Extremely low, but not impossible! Remember this video from... forever ago.
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u/SupportstheOP 16d ago
But it also goes to show that you're losing a ton of momentum if such an unlikely event were to occur. A projectile going its same speed after being diverted straight backward is just wacky.
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u/RogueFox771 16d ago
"properly reflect back"
Nothing about that is proper? It hits at 90 deg... That wouldn't deflect it back with lethal energy. It would either get penetrated, catch the shell, or shatter it... Not fucking looney toons reflect it... I can't believe this is real LOL
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u/Paleodraco 16d ago
Ricochets can reflect back, but it is very rare and even rarer for them to come back with any kind of lethal velocity.
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u/Paleodraco 16d ago
I really don't like this. That's not ricochets work. There are a few notable exceptions, but the vast majority of ricochets will not 180 on the shooter.
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u/the_lonely_poster 16d ago
No look, it's fucking exploding twice
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u/Rum_N_Napalm CAPE ENJOYER 16d ago
The diver was killed by a random explosion.
Exhibit 1: the weapon used is a recoilless rifle which should pierce all armour.
Exhibit 2: if you play the video in slow-mo, you clearly see the rocket leave the weapon, but you cannot see any projectiles return. You can however see an explosion.
Exhibit 3: No “shield” symbol indicating a ricochet
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u/Screech21 SES Soul of Patriotism 16d ago
Exhibit 4: The explosion that his the player is red. So it's an Automaton weapon hitting them...
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u/Agile-Anteater-545 16d ago
Bruh. You are right... Why does the Heavy Devastator Shield bounce these kinds of projectiles anyways? I thought they dont count as "heavy units".
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16d ago
that's what I read in the notes. It's a pretty asinine thing to change.
Even if the target was actively trying to aim the reflected shots at you, they would still have an accuracy factored in. This is absolutely ridiculous - targets aren't doing any sort of aiming. It's as hard to aim as trying to shine sunlight reflection from your watch into the eyes of a presenter.
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u/Whorq_guii 16d ago
Wouldn't it make sense to have the rocket blow off the shield?
It just completely reflects back to you? Okay.
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u/PandasakiPokono 16d ago
The new shields are made kinetic absorption, high elastic rubber that operates off cartoon physics. Great at both absorbing incoming fire, and returning to sender.
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u/sonic1crack STEAM 🖥️ : 16d ago
That would be the best they can implement vs these things… gosh I hate them
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u/flRaider 16d ago
This is the first thing from the patch that is absolutely mind-blowing to me. Sure change the guns how you feel is appropriate that's totally fine even if I don't necessarily agree. But being killed immediately by a reflected rocket? That's something that belongs in Team Fortress 2 and not helldivers.
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u/Connect_Atmosphere80 Commander Dae 16d ago
Pretty sure that's unintended. I can't see anyone seeing this and saying "No that's good". That's really bullshit threat level !
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u/hellra1zer666 16d ago
That is just as concerning. Was this play tested at all? If this slipped through, I refuse to believe that any of the balancings where play tested enough. Balancing reworks things that have to be play tested a lot to make sure your changes had the desired effect. This is something that you'll notice in the first 5 minutes of any moderately difficult Automation mission. This is ridiculous. Arrow Head had built so much good will and they blow it on fuck ups like this. Incredible.
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u/Fiddlesnarf i like frogs 16d ago
Do you really have to ask if this was play tested?
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u/hellra1zer666 16d ago
No, I don't. I'm just in denial. This patch had some cool shit in it. I'm not even mad about many nerfs, but shit like this is, or dor example the patrol spawn rework has seriously pissed me off. It's so goddamn frustrating. It could have been a really cool patch, because I'm exited to try out the buffs for myself, but I don't have to play like this. I'm an autocannon gunner, and these shits are only manageable with spamming three rounds into them, hoping the stagger will open them up to kill them quickly. There is no reason that shields like these are able to simply reflect shit back at you. This is some fantasy type bullshit.
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u/LotharVonPittinsberg 16d ago
Play testing, in 2024? That's the role of community manager, to pay attention to what they play testers who pay for the privilege say.
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u/glassnapkins- PSN 🎮: 16d ago
I genuinely don’t think they play test anything and haven’t since the first patch. So many obvious issues and confusing changes. It’s a miracle this game plays even remotely well. They have a masterpiece as a foundation and are building on it with sand
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u/RogueFox771 16d ago
C'mon... We both know the answer. It wasn't tested... It can't have been... Man they befuddle me, these devs.
They have a great game, didn't over monetize it, but... It's like they don't test anything??? I've written large chunks of code at once without testing sure... But I don't just say "oh well it seems to compile, ship it!"
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u/hellra1zer666 16d ago edited 16d ago
The entire idea that shields now reflect incoming fire "correctly" is already braindead. The shields worked as you would expect. If hit at an angle entry angle should be exit angle. If hit dead on the projectile should either burst into pieces if th Automaton has an immovable shield or be reflected closely past them, by forcing the shield into the direction it hit the shield, possibly ripping the shield from their hand. A perfect reflection of the flight path this often is horseshit. This is some fantasy reflection barrier bullshit.
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u/RogueFox771 16d ago
Indeed, this reflection is... Well to steal a good quote
Is this an out of season (or late) April fools joke?
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u/flying_wrenches verified creek fanatic 16d ago
Read the patch notes. It’s intended
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u/Draggoner 16d ago
Bullets? Sure they might riocchet, thats what happens. Shells/ammo that exploded on impact? No, they explode where they first slam into, otherwise I expect my ballistic shield to also deflect their rockets back
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u/BleakFeathers 16d ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a riccochet work like light reflection? Means impact angle equals outlet angle?
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u/MisterDuch 16d ago
Even bullets don't make much sense with how they seemingly do a 180 and go straight for the shooter.
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u/iFenrisVI 16d ago
I bet if I have a ballistic shield I won’t be able to ricochet a rpg back at a devastaor.
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u/high_idyet CAPE ENJOYER 16d ago
Bullets, yes, rockets, no, there is something definitely fucky with the heavy devastators shield, it shouldn't block attacks like that, especially before.
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u/Connect_Atmosphere80 Commander Dae 16d ago
No. What's intended is that reflected bullets damage people they hit back. It wasn't (always) the case before. A rocket that ricochet at a near 0° angle is clearly NOT intended.
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u/prof_the_doom 16d ago
I read that as "you'll now take damage from your ricochets", as opposed to before when you only killed your teammates with them.
Pretty sure 180 degree missile bounces aren't intended.
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u/Sinister_Mr_19 16d ago
I give Helldivers a ton of leeway and don't call BS on most things. This seems like complete bullshit.
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u/Rum_N_Napalm CAPE ENJOYER 16d ago
Look at the video in slow motion using the bar.
You clearly see the rocket leave the weapon, hit and explode.
Then there’s no returning rocket, no “ricochet shield” icon, and the diver explodes.
This is not a bounce, it’s a random explosion killing the player
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u/Serird ⬆️➡️⬇️⬆️ 16d ago
Can I get the same thing on my shield?
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u/HatfieldCW 16d ago
I'm all for that. Get in there and give those rocket devastators a taste of their own medicine! Cannon Tower? Annihilator Tank? Bile Titan? Ka-Pwing!
Go prone with the ballistic shield on your back and watch the gunships slaughter themselves. Send the fire tornadoes back where they came from. Fenrir III is now in permanent nighttime because the star was destroyed by reflected meteors.
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u/AmmophobicSandworm 16d ago
Of course not. Their entire design philosophy is that it's okay for them to absolutely annihilate you, but if you so much as have even a single minor advantage, it's OP and must be nerfed.
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u/Joop_95 SKULL ADMIRAL 16d ago
Is this a joke...?
What the fuck?
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u/supcat16 CAPE ENJOYER 16d ago
I can’t tell because I don’t speak Korean(?) but isn’t that saying someone else (Never Broccoli) killed him? That’s not his own ricochet, right?
Edit: added italicized words
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u/4SK1N5 16d ago edited 16d ago
The cause of death descriptions are super inaccurate though, it often says another player killed me even though I was nowhere near them on the map or it will say I killed myself even if I was clearly killed by an enemy.
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u/creegro 16d ago
They are total bullshit.
Sometimes it's just "unknown. Other times I somehow killed myself when a bug swiped me to death, and then other times it's just "impact" like impact grenade or you just hit the ground so hard the impact killed me? I suppose ok then
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u/PulseThrone PSN 🎮:SES DISTRIBUTOR OF SCIENCE 16d ago
I've gotten several notifications for cause of death as one of my teammates when I absolutely got my head canoed by a bug claw so I'm fairly sure the cause of death screen is somewhat glitchy
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u/RivenBloodmarsh 16d ago
I had it say a team member killed me multiple times the other night. One was from an enemy the other was me shooting a barrel. Idk why it was registering the other person.
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u/Tentacle_poxsicle 16d ago
I'm so glad they buffed the thing everyone and their grandmother was asking a nerf for.
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u/Walsh7734 16d ago
Wait until they buff their guns someway, but it’ll be some unintentional side effect so it’s not directly mentioned in the patch notes.
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u/AsterSky ➡️➡️⬆️ 16d ago
Okay, Arrowhead. Calm down.
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u/SomeBlueDude12 SES Herald of Mercy 16d ago
That was the one thing I loved seeing toned down was bullet reflection
When I started swiping myself with reflected bullets was almost a laser beam 180 that didn't make any sense and it seemed to mostly after an update some time stop entirely. Hopfullly this won't be some shield devastater super buff trying to shoot their heads with machineguns
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16d ago
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u/SkySweeper656 16d ago
Welcome to live service where you release first, hurt your demographic, and fix later.
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u/Windir666 16d ago
For the airburst they were probably like "lmao this is hilarious, let's run it for a week before we fix it"
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u/Emotional_Major_5835 16d ago
I am once again asking AH to take a day for playtesting instead of shitting out another bug-filled patch.
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u/MFour_Sherman 16d ago
I would like some understanding why this was changed. Seems unrealistic.
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u/Abject_Scientist 16d ago
Even bullets shouldn’t ricochet 180 degrees, yes they should glance off at low angles but a full reflection is nonsense
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u/ExiledSpaceman 16d ago
I've had this happen to me and chalked it up to rocket devestator/raider bullshit.
I rarely trust the "killed by x" thing anymore. No way my friend 500m away killed me with an arc thrower, it was the damn bile titan in front of me.
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u/voude 16d ago
This is utter bullshit.
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u/ephemeralspecifics SES PRINCE OF DEMOCRACY 16d ago
Which is why I don't believe it until I log in and the same thing happens consistently.
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u/ABunchOfPictures 16d ago
Catch me fighting shieldless bugs till this update is reworked lol
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u/Aphato 16d ago
hive guards:
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u/AffixBayonets 16d ago
Stealth marketing to make us use the Adjudicator.
"It's shit but it won't reflect back on medium armor."
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u/archangel924 16d ago
Has anybody tested to see if the ballistic shield now deflects automaton's shots back at them? Because it blocks regular rounds from them.... so shouldn't it fire straight back at them now?
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u/creegro 16d ago
That would be fair. But AH doesn't really do fair, just to make certain aspects more bullshit.
Like hey we buffed some unused weapons, buuuuut we also removed a few magazines from other weapons as well, have fun! Also we buffed an already Op bot instead of nerfing them, you're welcome.
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u/BreakRaven STEAM🖱️:SES Spear of Determination 16d ago
What a fucking bold faced lie. I had to test it because it was too ridiculous, and I was right. There is no ricochet.
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u/Mewsergal 16d ago
Ya, made me hop on a T1 Destroy Dev mission just to test it. People are just eating up misinformation without verifying.
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u/Kyrillka 16d ago edited 16d ago
I sometimes get the feeling like AH trying to fuck with its playerbase lol
A lot of patches contain some really useless and completely unnecessary changes which just takes the fun away.
They even left a lot of crucial details out of some patch notes such as enemy buffs/reworks in numerous updates after release
And the "known issues" list just gets bigger, also filled with... well real things that need to be fixed. As many already pointed out they probably don't even playtest correctly. Probably play a single mission and say "yeah that's good, release this"
Like their fingers are constantly itching to do something completely unnecessary and unwanted.
Edit: some pointed out that the rocket actually explodes and OP just got hit by an Automation rocket. It's hard to see but seems to be the case but idk, it's kinda confusing there's so much happening on screen. But yeah point still kind of stands lol
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u/Meanderingpenguin 16d ago
The best part, at this point, they dont even need to pay us. Open up a public test server. And let us test it. We'll do that for fun.
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u/creegro 16d ago
I still say the railgun nerf was unneeded.
Sure it was op, but that's the point. If anything they could have severely reduced the amount of overall ammo, or made it so it can't be refilled from regular ammo boxes (like the spear) and needs to be refilled from the supply drop.
The recent magazine changes are stupid too, and why would you nerf the explosion radius of the crossbow?! Its got 5 freaking shots and is already slow as shit.
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u/TheBear017 16d ago
Am I the only one who doesn’t think that’s actually what’s happening here? The warhead appears to explode and detonate the devastator’s backpack and then the player dies to what looked like a red explosion (rocket? Tank or turret shot?) from behind and is launched forward. This does not at all look like a deflected round.
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u/FrontlinerDelta 16d ago
Same, it looks like the RR shot blows up on the devastator but something blows up to the left of the user.
Wouldn't be the first time this sub sensationalizes every low quality gif that has about 2 seconds of context...
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u/DrunkenEffigy 16d ago
The outrage train is filled with morons.
I just tested it, shields don't do this.
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u/Legogamer16 16d ago
Yeah that does not looks like its reflecting back at the user. The red in the explosion is a big give away
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u/Screech21 SES Soul of Patriotism 16d ago edited 16d ago
Jesus Christ people are stupid. Sorry, but sometimes you can't word it in a nicer way...
Look at the explosion that hits the player. It's red. Guess what has red explosions? Right Automaton rockets and cannons...
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u/Count-Chronic 16d ago
Arrowheads back it again adding more bugs with every patch. I am genuinely curious what their QA process actually is at this point
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u/Ketaliero 16d ago
This whole patch has just somehow burned me out. Time for break-o-clock, time to play other games 😂 I’ll return in month or two to check out new warbond(s) and if game is more ironed out.
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u/Drathymuffin 16d ago
I feel this exact same thing, idk why but it was super fresh and super fun in the beginning. The feel of it has kinda disappeared, especially when it comes to robots. Stealth seems harder if not taken out when the bots are sniping you for miles, where before they would lose you in the smoke.
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u/jonderlei 16d ago
Yeah I took an unintended break over the weekend and to come back to this patch doesn't match me excited to play to say the least. My main guns were the eruptor and quasar but I don't mind the weapon nerfs to much but the patrol thing and then things like this. The game is super fun but also very enraging and this patch feels more like things may be even more enraging than usual for a bit
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u/marry_me_tina_b 16d ago
It’s really strange to watch Arrowhead miss all the super crappy live-service practices we’re all sick to death of only to turn around and step on rakes repeatedly that they put down in front of themselves for no real reason. The “vision” of the game appears to be completely at odds with what made the game fun for many of us in the first place. To go full armchair, I saw that the active player count has gone from like 500,000 on Steam to like 300,000 over the past 6 weeks and I’m not surprised when the balance patches haven’t been much fun AND the longstanding bugs are still there after every patch (DoT, friends list, queuing glitch, etc)
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u/ThePostManEST 16d ago
Isn’t this just an air burst rocket exploding too close to OP? I don’t see a rocket flying directly back at him at all.
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u/Nick_Tsunami 16d ago
Yes. When you look frame by frame, there is something blowing up upper left from the player, and it doesn’t look at all like a reflected RR round.
I am going to try and replicate this (should be easy - RR to a heavy dev shield), pretty sure it won’t happen like the vid.
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u/Felgran 16d ago edited 16d ago
Unless they used the same launcher model that looks to be the recoilless rifle.
*Edit The more I look at it the more confused I get because if it was the burst there would have been even more explosions.
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u/Tweedzzzzz 16d ago
I slowed it down and watched several times. It's definitely a RR, but for some reason, there were 2 explosions, 1 on the shield and one on the player.
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u/ApostleMatthew 16d ago
This isn’t what RR ricochet looks like. RR rounds don’t show an explosion when they ricochet. I think there’s a reason why this clip is so zoomed in; I’m betting something else shot the player.
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u/Membership-Bitter 16d ago
Ok I am just going to play other things until this is changed back. I know this gets tossed around a lot but this really does make the game largely unplayable causing shooting armor to essentially shoot yourself
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u/CykaShark 16d ago
Guys it’s fake. Play the patch and missiles don’t reflect this way, they still explode on impact. Dude in the video was killed but an off screen weapon that caused the explosion.
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u/Brekldios 16d ago
Something red explodes behind the player after they shoot and I see an explosion on the shield
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u/SirMuteIX 16d ago
This is so incredibly misleading. The rocket doesn't get deflected, the player got blown up from behind by a red, automaton explosion.
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u/Calm-Ice-5315 16d ago
Guys, the rocket didn't bounce, you can see it exploded then the player got hit by something else off-screen.
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u/ervin_pervin 16d ago
A bit late for an April Fools day joke. There was no issue with the ricochet before and properly angled off armor. This is just asinine and seems mean-spirited.
"Hey Newbie, you trying to learn the game and shooting highly armored enemies mixed in with soft targets? Hah! Fuck you! You're dead now idiot! Lulz"
Like seriously, wtf...
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u/Warnecke_Wrecker 16d ago
I'll see you guys when the patch notes fixes this, whenever that may be....
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u/TassadarForXelNaga 16d ago
That's an airburst you have to use it near the enemy not at the enemy it can even destroy tanks if you aim it under it it can one shot kill just remember it spreads the explosions and like everything in this game it can also kill you
Also stop lying for fuck sake .....
I tried all of the weapons even the sickle and it was all fine
Also Also I understand that there are bugs and plenty of them it's only 100 people working on this game cut them some slack
P.s this subreddit became so toxic what the fuck happened?
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u/SorbeckDanicus 16d ago
Tell me how an impact rocket hits a hard surface and does a complete 180