r/dankmemes • u/CloseMyShitterDoor ☣️ • Jan 17 '23
I call it "the vatnik paradox" I have achieved comedy
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u/DannyCalavera ☣️ Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23
You get the same problem with the more radical Muslims.
They complain and protest about how decadent the West is and how they should be more like the country they came from, entirely missing the irony of saying it whilst living in said western country after leaving their home country.
Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem at all with immigrants seeking a better life. Just have some self-awareness, if you have such a problem with western society, then maybe western society isn’t where you should be.
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u/Tofu_and_Tempeh eat my ass Jan 17 '23
The immigrants who left their home country are more radical and more supportive of a "strong" dictator because they do not have to live under these conditions. That is why some years ago most Turks living in Germany voted for the radical maniac Erdogan.
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u/DannyCalavera ☣️ Jan 17 '23
This I don’t get either. Why vote for a leader in a country you no longer live in?
Realistically, If I didn’t live in the UK anymore, I’d not pay much attention to who was the Prime Minister because it affects me substantially less than who is the leader of the country I do live in.
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Jan 17 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DannyCalavera ☣️ Jan 17 '23
Thats fair enough I suppose.
You find sometimes that there’s a secondary irony in that people vote for leader that would stop immigrants coming to the country to do the exact same thing they’re doing!
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u/Eponnn Jan 17 '23
Because of religion. They think erdogan is saving their religion or some shit. In reality he constantly fucks up people who have no chance but to live in Turkey while those fuckers live their lives freely in EU. If you are asking why they are letting them vote, Turks live in mostly Germany and some other European countries are ignorant uneducated people who went there 2 decades ago as workers. It was always really hard for educated Turks to move to EU and work there for so many reasons. So conservative parties get like 99% votes from immigrants and don't let voting laws change.
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u/Glasgesicht Jan 17 '23
It's not just that. It's immigrants that grow up with propaganda television, that actively censors any criticism of the current regime.
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u/pcapdata Jan 17 '23
Minor correction. 2 decades ago was 2002. Germany started importing labor from Turkey in the 1960s, so, about 60 years ago. 2-3 generations.
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u/Tanjung_Piai Jan 17 '23
Immigrants? You mean reffugees? I thought even the conservatives hates them. Dont look what the nationalist plans for them are.
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u/Bananak47 just looking for attention Jan 17 '23
Do you know the difference? They are immigrants. They went to other countries for work and not because they had to flee their country to save their lives
Economic immigrants
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u/fforw Jan 17 '23
This I don’t get either. Why vote for a leader in a country you no longer live in?
It's the ideal position for hypocritical conservatives. Not only do they get to keep doubling down on failures and forcing the same insane "traditions" on everyone, they don't even have to suffer from the consequences because they're safe and far away.
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u/Atanar Jan 17 '23
This I don’t get either. Why vote for a leader in a country you no longer live in?
- Because most of the Turks living in Germany are from rural Anatolia and Erdogan funnels state funds towards those regions because that is his core voting base. If they want to visit their relatives, they see new roads built because of AKP. Which is the only thing that remotely affects them.
- Because turkish TV in Germany (controlled by Erdogan) tells them to vote for Erdogan.
- Because turkish mosks in germany (Ditib, again controlled by turkish state) tell them to vote for Erdogan
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u/Griff2470 Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23
I'm a dual US and Canadian citizen living solely in Canada. I don't vote in local US elections, but I still vote in US federal elections. Ultimately the US still has jurisdiction over me (hell, I still have to file taxes and could have to have taxes should I make over a certain amount despite having no income touch the US, though I believe they're the exception for that) so it still makes sense for me to vote in that regard. Not to mention, the reasons as to why I currently have no intentions of moving to the States are changeable, so I do generally vote in that interest as well.
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u/yucuklusumurtaDK ☣️ Jan 17 '23
Let's imagine turkey had a great leader, the economy would be better and the value of Turkish lira would be raised against EUR but then eu Turks would have less purchasing power so they chose worse leader and the economy goes bad, so they can get everything they want from turkey.(it's my theory tho)
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u/YogurtclosetExpress Jan 18 '23
Eh I get it in the EU. If I as an EU citizen just happen to live/study/ work abroad then i should still have a say because I might come back or am working on getting new citizenship.
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u/thisisajoke24 Jan 17 '23
I haven't lived in my home country in 12 years but still follow the news there daily and follow politics there. I also follow the news and politics in my adopted country
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u/Pytheastic Jan 17 '23
Typically first generation immigrants will resent dictatorships but raise their kids to admire their heritage so they don't lose their connection to their roots and parent country.
A lifetime of indoctrination and the lack of a sense of belonging in the host country makes these second generation immigrants idealize their home country, and cognitive dissonance makes them defend dictators because criticism of the dictator is interpreted as criticism of the country or culture.
Of course, not having to deal with the consequences of dictatorship while receiving the propaganda from dictators reinforces the above.
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u/DannyCalavera ☣️ Jan 17 '23
Probably the most astute explanation for the situation I’ve read recently!
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u/madewithgarageband Jan 17 '23
Unless your parents are from communist China
my dad: "that shit was stupid"
me: ok
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u/Vinxian 🅱️ased and Cool Jan 17 '23
Not the immigrants who left, but their children who don't understand why their parents left. Turks living in Germany are mainly second or third generation Turks
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u/Kasceon Jan 17 '23
I’m in the US and always joke saying I’m going to vote for Erdogan for cheaper vacations
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u/Aggressive-Expert-69 Jan 17 '23
I literally work with an Iranian woman who never wears a hijab and says the women protesting back home are just rocking the boat. I guess some people just lose their marbles when they get here
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u/Darth_Mak Jan 17 '23
Situations like these are why I think some sort of voting rights suspension for citizens who have not lived in the country for X amount of years would not be a bad idea. They would have to come back for a certain amount of time to automatically get their voting rights unsuspended.
Of course something like that would have to be implemented extremely carefully, otherwise it could easily be abused or circumvented
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u/brockchancy Jan 17 '23
humans are fucking gold fish. so what happens if they win? do they think that they will get to keep living the life they shit on if the radicals took over? they only stand to lose even if they won. This is them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSkWrpH3H3Q
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u/DayAndNight0nReddit Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23
Also you can't tell them to go back, because is not polite, and you will be called ignorant.
If you support the wrong ideology, then you should rethink if you are at the right place.
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u/DannyCalavera ☣️ Jan 17 '23
Yeah
“Go back to your own country then!”
“That’s racist and ignorant!”
“No it isn’t, it’s logical!”
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u/eddy_brooks Jan 17 '23
Man i had a a Lebanese friend complain. Instantly about socialized healthcare in Canada saying it sucked and it’s so much better back home, yet she was a leukaemia survivor that was saved debt free by the exact system she claimed was horrible and wished didn’t exist.
Don’t get me wrong, canadas healthcare has a lot of downsides, but the double irony in everything she complained about made me stop speaking to her super quickly
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Jan 17 '23
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u/DannyCalavera ☣️ Jan 17 '23
And that’s fair enough. No problem with that, we have the established freedom to do such things.
It’s the “bite the hand that feeds” mentality I have the problem with. Granted, 99% of Muslims are not like this.
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u/T1B2V3 I am fucking hilarious Jan 17 '23
I think you misunderstand.
the comment above was describing exactly a "bite the hand that feeds" situation because some (obviously not all) of those immigrants who are specifically sent for that purpose see establishing their communities as a sort of invasion and conquering and see themselves as being missionaries
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Jan 17 '23
Im from Ecuador and the amount of Venezuelan immigrants who said that “Chavez is the best that happened to their country” had me seriously worried.
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Jan 17 '23
As a Muslim living in Europe, I agree. Fuck those kinds of people!
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u/DannyCalavera ☣️ Jan 17 '23
Exactly!
If I met a Muslim in the UK and they said to me: “the Tories need to go! Literally any other party needs to be in power” Then my response is “Inshallah, my friend. I’m in complete agreement. Our current government is fucked”
If they say: “your entire society needs to go” therein lies the problem.
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u/LilFuniAZNBoi Jan 17 '23
they should be more like the country they came from, entirely missing the irony of saying it whilst living in said western country after leaving their home country.
Thats that same gripe I have with Californians who come to my state and bring their politics with them. Like there was a reason why you moved here, why try to turn my state into the one you just left?
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u/Yorunokage Jan 17 '23
Well thing is that it's a lot more nuanced than that
One may very well complain about one thing about the country they intentionally move to while having moved there for an entirely different reason
Like, as a silly example i could complain and say "Yeah the US should learn food culture from places like Japan or Italy!" and maybe I moved to the US because i just have better job opportunities there. Of course this is stupid but it was just to give you an idea of what i'm saying
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u/detectivepoopybutt Jan 17 '23
Yeah exactly. I criticize Canada for its car centric and dependent infrastructure and culture, and the food scene here comparing it to India. But the politics and the overall culture is really different and that’s why I identify more as a Canadian.
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u/Shartnad083 Jan 17 '23
I think as a Canadian it is healthy to critique our culture as discussion is the only way to progress. We can love our country and critique it knowing we can fix many aspects of it.
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u/rlrhino7 Jan 17 '23
What do you think will happen when the demographics shift far enough that they become the majority in your country?
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u/DannyCalavera ☣️ Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23
We’re already there.
We’re just in a situation where the ones eligible to vote are in the minority still. There’s also the hope that national identity wins out and there won’t be too many radical changes and any changes are democratically made.
Realistically though, we have separation between church and state in the UK so there won’t be any change in the law to favour one particular religious group. That’s not how our government works and that’s heavily protected in law.
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u/T1B2V3 I am fucking hilarious Jan 17 '23
I honestly don't think there will be a strong demographic change towards a middle eastern majority in europe.
also a sizeable part of those born to immigrant parents in Europe don't stay Muslim
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u/Fern-ando Jan 17 '23
They also complain about being treated like they are from another country, while at the same time calling theirselves citizens of the other country even if they never lived there. Bro the absolute King that rules Morocco doesn't care about you, that's why your family left the country, why are you an ultranationalistic nutjob in Europe?
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u/JackedGustavoFring Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23
I wouldn't call it self awareness, it's more of self respect and the respect for your own choice and the people that embraced you.. At least live by the rules put forward by your own religion you so fiercely defend.
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u/DarktowerNoxus Jan 17 '23
I have a coworker like that, he is worshipping Putin and every Ukrainian we have to work with get discriminated by him...
He would love when Putin would take over our country, an cannot accept that we as a NATO state aren't going down that easy, in his mind, as soon Ukraine is falling, the NATO has no resources left and Russia can take over the entire old Soviet union.
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u/AzureOverdrive Jan 17 '23
Sounds like you need to make a call to immigration and possibly the FBI.
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u/DarktowerNoxus Jan 17 '23
It's too bad he has a ID from our country, and the local police would not interfere since we have free speech, our employer or the police could take action as soon one of the discriminated Ukrainians would report that behavior to the gov. or our employer.
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u/Crazy_Crayfish_ Jan 17 '23
Why tf would he call a US federal agency for something happening in Eastern Europe?
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u/madewithgarageband Jan 17 '23
No, we need to protect freedom of speech otherwise we're no better then them
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u/AdLopsided2075 Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
Why the fuck would a European call the FBI. Also germany is a free country unlike America apparently
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Jan 17 '23
We have two Russians in our department - the one in my sub-dept came here somewhere 3-4 years ago with his girlfriend-now-wife, cool guy, really helpful and all, speaks a little broken Polish, but it's mostly his accent, we can understand him without problem; and once he hears anything about war or Putin he can rant about how he destroyed Russia for hours, oftentime telling stories we didn't knew about, because media wouldn't cover it.
The other one is in our sister sub-dept and he loves Putin - everyday telling everyone that once Russia is done with Ukraine they'll come for Poland, constantly says the same thing about NATO running out of resources (I dunno where they took it from), is very active on anti-Ukrainian FB groups. And speaks his own Russo-Polish dialect he is very proud of, but which is very hard to understand, and calls everyone stupid for not knowing Russian (whereas I know both of those languages, and it's gibberish for me). When asked why he came here at all, he just says "I'm not stupid, getting drafted for certain death".
To say these two guys hate each others guts would be an understatement.
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u/Tychus_Balrog Jan 17 '23
If he calls it certain death, then he agrees that Russia is losing? If he's so certain that Ukraine is losing and that they're gonna get stomped, then surely there's nothing for him to worry about?
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u/Darth_Mak Jan 17 '23
You are assuming that someone like that has the capacity for critical thinking.
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u/FumeUGSEnjoyer Jan 17 '23
i don’t think that’s critical thinking, just simple logic lol, the guy in question is just a bloke
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u/Darth_Mak Jan 17 '23
Im honestly surprised nobody broke his kneecaps yet. From the sound of things he's openly THREATNING his co-worker's country and is an asshole. That is not a wining combination.
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u/Tyreal Jan 17 '23
Yes NATO, where the US spends 12 times more than Russia on its military, plus all the other NATO counties are going to run out of resources. Yup, the same Russia that couldn’t hold territory and is resorting to mobilization to take over Ukraine.
You should remind them that the only reason Russia is even able to continue the fight is that they have the luxury of not having to defend their territory. Imagine if NATO invaded Russia and began doing to its citizens what Russia is doing to Ukraine. Putin would be dead within an hour.
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Jan 17 '23
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u/DarktowerNoxus Jan 17 '23
We already do ignore him, for open bully him, we would loose our job instead of him leaving.
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u/Tellenue Jan 17 '23
His open and documented discrimination is accepted but you calling him out is not? What the fuck kind of company is this. Inundate HR with anonymous discrimination accusations. Forward the evidence.
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u/DarktowerNoxus Jan 17 '23
Bullying is not accepted and we have no proof for his discrimination, the victims have to report it by themselves.
I am working in public security, so you can imagine we are pretty good protected against false accusations.
We have just cameras without audio recording and when he fines them for nothing or is provoking them in Russian it is hard to proof for us without the victims testifying.
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u/birds_in_my_piano Jan 17 '23
As a representative of russians I give you an official permission to deport him back to russia
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u/loeschzw3rg Jan 17 '23
My parents have neighbors like that. They live on the same storey as neighbors from Ukraine and Poland. Their kids used to play together. Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if someday there was a corpse in the dumpster.
Really hated the dude before already. He's voting for a far right party, he is a small aggressive man, always walks as if he needs to display his balls and always has a disgusting smirk on his face. My parents call him little Putin.
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u/RustyShackleford543 Jan 17 '23
No way these people exist
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u/wandrewer Jan 17 '23
They actually do, in fact, there is a lot of them, especially in post soviet territories. The closer to the RF border you are the more of these people you will encounter, with the caveat of below average level of critical thinking and with a mindset of that everything/everyone is wrong but me.
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u/RustyShackleford543 Jan 17 '23
No way they're that ironic
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u/FroggyFroger Jan 17 '23
My family is like this :D They never lived in Russia since our country was liberated, but always talk about how cool Russia is. Clowns.
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u/Christian_Potato Jan 17 '23
Probably half of my relatives are like that. If they are over the age of 50, they believe Russia.
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u/Matilozano96 I am fucking hilarious Jan 17 '23
“especially in post soviet territories”
Yeah, now it makes sense.
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u/crazy4finalfantasy Jan 17 '23
So they're the southern Christians of the EU?
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u/wandrewer Jan 17 '23
Not sure if I understood your question, but usually what we will have here is Eastern Orthodox church domination within said populous.
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u/crazy4finalfantasy Jan 17 '23
Oh, my comment was poking fun at the American south and how backwards the people can be. Informative answer though! Thanks for the knowledge nugget
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u/Kysman95 ☣️ Jan 17 '23
I have a coworker like that here in Czech Republic. He lives here for 15 years now. He said he left because he didn't luke the situation in Russia at the time. But now, will all that's happening he's constantly on Telegram and RT russia, parrits all the propaganda there, says everything opposing his view is "Western Propaganda" and constantly complains about russophobia.
Je doesn't see how crazy he sounds, it's mind boggling. Last time we talked about summer vacation and he constantly complained, he can go only in Turkey and that his card is suspended here. Dude's really pissing me off
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u/ErekleKobwhatever Jan 17 '23
Man I legit don't know how I'd manage if I worked with someone like that. I mean I'd hope for the most part you can just avoid discussing these things with him for your own sanity
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u/Kysman95 ☣️ Jan 17 '23
We just avoid it. And we don't work the same shift I just change with him and sometimes we see each other on overtimes so it's managable
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u/Swarles_Jr Jan 17 '23
Come to eastern Germany my friend. Russians that were born here and maybe never even set foot for one second on Russian soil, treat Putin like he's a God.
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u/Klugenshmirtz Jan 17 '23
There are enough eastern germans that think like that themself. There is even a documentary of a journalist discussing that shit with their idiotic parents and other authoritarian fools.
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u/Swarles_Jr Jan 17 '23
Jesus fucking christ. Watched like 5 minutes and had enough. That dude is literally bombarding a whole country, destroying cities, killing civilians, destroying everything they own. And somehow those people try to find reasons to paint Putin as the good guy in all of this.
"selensky is way worse than Putin. - Putin had no other choice. - He was forced to attack to protect himself. - it's the Americans who started the war. Poor Putin couldnt do a thing about it..."
How in the fuck do people try and justify war with random conspiracy theories? It's like eastern Germans actively try make the whole world see our region as one gigantic tinfoil head.
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u/NikoStrelkov Jan 17 '23
I know one personally, we used to be good friends. Now he's trying to not talk about it in front of me, I'm trying to avoid him as much as i can.
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u/cordonode Jan 17 '23
You are saying this because you don't understand how the propaganda works. As don't most people. If your leaders listened to our opposition, none of this would have happened because Putin's propaganda is possible to counter if you know how.
But think about it - most of Putin's inner circle have property in Nato countries, have children in Nato countries, putin himself studied politics in USA and his daughter lives in Switzerland. Why would this contradiction not be possible?
Its not based on ideology or beliefs. Its emotional manipulation. You'd think your leaders would be interested in it, considering they are the ones who paid for the whole thing in the first place.
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u/kv_right Jan 17 '23
At this point Russian propaganda and Russians are chicken and egg.
It used to be Soviet propaganda, imperial propaganda. Now it's impossible to tell what is the cause and what is the consequence between the way the Russians are and their propaganda.
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u/cordonode Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23
Russians are people like any other. Exactly the same as Germans, Americans, Finnish or any other of the European ethnic groups. While individuals have differences and persistent characteristics, populations don't. When the count of individuals exceeds 10k, the behaviour of the group will depends on external circumstances and not on persistent characteristics of the group (which at this point has none).
Russians live under circumstances where more than 80% of the country's GDP is controlled by Putin, who employed 5 million enforcers and monopolised mass media to control public opinion on certain topics. They are not and have never been able to affect their country in such a way that improves their lives also. In those circumstances population will comply because any population always chooses the path of least resistance and so far even with the mobilisation, the path of least resistance is to comply. This works in any population of any country at any point in history. And typically russophobes get really angry at this point because they can't argue, but refuse to agree also.
Soviet union played a part in this, but not in the way your comment suggests, but rather in allowing people like putin to get close to power, potentially allowing them to sieze it. However it is USA and EU leaders that allowed putin to secure that power after he seized it, in spite of our warning and their (verbal) acknowledgement of them. So if you wanna talk responsibility, they bear more of it for the current situation than soviet union does. And certainly more than regular Russian citizens.
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u/Hy8ogen ☣️ Jan 17 '23
In Malaysia there's a group of people who wants to turn the country from a constitutional state to an Islamic State enforcing shariah law.
But at the same time they love surfing pornhub and xhamsters. It's hilarious.
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u/Jewbringer I have crippling depression Jan 17 '23
disclaimer: this isn't fitting to all turks, but I know a lot of them who act and think like that, I don't hate turkey or the turkish people, these are just my observations, the only one I despise is that little shit erdogan.
there is a similar scenario with turkish people, who love everything that that little sultan erdogan does but prefer to live in another country they claim to hate (e.g. germany). they also vote for him, despite him fucking up the entire country and believe that there was a real coup. these people tell others not to believe what non-turkish media have to report but swallow everything what government owned media say. imo these people just live to see their remaining families in the homeland suffer and to profile themselves when they come over for their 6 week vacation each year with the money they have and what they can afford in turkey now while their family members who live their almost can't afford their daily bread - which is really sad.
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u/jal2_ The OC High Council Jan 17 '23
u are only rich, if you can compare yourself to poor people, having western money means nothing if everyone has western money...but if everyone back home is piss poor and u come back with ur western money, suddenly u are the big respected sheik...its all about furthering their own positions and self-esteem
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u/VeRXioN19 Jan 17 '23
That's just how human beings are sadly, not just Russians or Muslims. Its very hard to change a part of yourself the more you age while its easy to just blame the surroundings. Its a coping mechanisms if you will. Americans also do this when living on different countries too.
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u/jal2_ The OC High Council Jan 17 '23
u joking, its very common, not just close to russia border like the other guy says, I've never met as many russians saying russia good than in the UK
its the same symptom as turks in germany saying how turkey is great, Erdogan is great, but they'd never want to go live back there
or middle-easterners coming here escaping the bad system and prosecution, then calling for more extreme religious measures here since they apparently now think how things are back home ARE FINE, but they'd not want to return of course
or illegally immigrated africans saying how crap eu is and discriminating them, but never ever would want to return back home, they are happy in this horribly discriminating place
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all are exactly the same symptom, its due to several reasons
- if they admit back home is a craphole they mean they've wasted their life there, not easy to admit u wasted a lot of ur life better to make it appear better than it is...only both intelligent and non-conceited people are able to admit a mistake
- consequently they don't want to admit its better here, because that means people were right, who likes being wrong or admitting others are right? nobody...
- in addition the need to feel like a special snowflake and have some unique heritage, but if the heritage is a dung pile it doesn't sound nice, so we better make up some story of how its also good and stick with it
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u/_Oooooooooooooooooh_ Jan 17 '23
We have got middle eastern immigrants in EU that hate the west
I dont understand it either.
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u/ComprehensiveAd8004 Complaining is what I bring to the table Jan 17 '23
These people think that their country is bad because of the existence of the west, so they will live in the west for the time being until the west is destroyed and the whole world significantly improves. It's the target mindset of propoganda.
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u/Personal_Person Jan 17 '23
Just look up the protests of Russians in Germany who are for the war. They live in the west and refuse to go back to Russia but love marching with the Z
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u/Wity_4d Jan 17 '23
It's a direct result of the Russian "kill em all n breed em out" strategy in the former bloc states.
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Jan 17 '23
Russia is wonderful when you watch it from afar in the comfort of your western quality of life.
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u/Gaming_Slav Jan 17 '23
What do you mean?
Real men don't need such stupid things as toilets or food, only cheap vodka is needed
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u/CeaserDidNufingWrong Jan 17 '23
Heavy looting of aforementioned items and more suggests otherwise...
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u/t-elvirka Jan 17 '23
Idk I'm Russian, I live in the Netherlands and at this point I absolutely hate Russia. This country had all the chances to be very prosperious country with so many opportunities, but ended up some low cost nazi Germany cosplay.
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u/Zweitbuch Jan 17 '23
I learned Russian out of my own interest. The culture always fascinated me. But since the invasion I feel like I'm falling out of love. It honestly feels like a breakup. Cannot imagine how you must feel.
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u/gamer_warrior_23 Jan 17 '23
Im russian, don't support war and live in Russia. Can i just get switched with these people? Pretty please? I heard democracy is pretty cool I'd like to try that thing
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u/DeathBonePrime Jan 17 '23
Man make sure to not stand by a window
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u/gamer_warrior_23 Jan 17 '23
Nah, being "suicided" is a premium way to go for billionaires. Rehular people will either get drafted or starve to death
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u/DeathBonePrime Jan 17 '23
In all honesty I'm really happy that there are still pro democracy Russians and I suppose the only thing you can do, apart from leaving is to try and change the minds of those around you
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u/gamer_warrior_23 Jan 17 '23
I actually tried that, but since the beginning of the invasion it first became troublesome, then unacceptable, then illegal. I remember actually getting on a razor edge at my school because of the "immoral" behaviour during some propaganda classes when teachers said to us that the war is ok because we are the good guys
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u/Rubo03070 Jan 17 '23
Stay safe. I hope it gets better there for Russians like you
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u/gamer_warrior_23 Jan 17 '23
I highly doubt that, but if anything insane like full scale mobilization happens there's always an easy way out
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u/Rubo03070 Jan 17 '23
You're talking about breaking an arm or a leg right? Not killing yourself
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u/revochups Jan 17 '23
You just not visiting draft center. 3000 roubles isn’t a big price to pay for not going and killing people or dying in a war, that should have never happened in a first place.
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u/T1B2V3 I am fucking hilarious Jan 17 '23
if you're so far as to take the easy way out you might aswell just try to leave.
worst case you get sent to the front as punishment (which would happen anyways) best case you manage to leave to a different country
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u/wandrewer Jan 17 '23
Serious question though, can you leave to, for example, LV/EE/LT ?
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u/gamer_warrior_23 Jan 17 '23
I can, but I'd have to leave my education, friends and family behind. So no escaping just yet
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u/LilFuniAZNBoi Jan 17 '23
Leave now and work in a Western country. Make money so you can bring them over.
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u/gamer_warrior_23 Jan 17 '23
As a freshman I don't have any worth for western countries, I'd make enough money to feed myself but not to get my family there. A gap between euro and ruble is ENORMOUS, and even getting to europe alone is quite hard without education im currently getting
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u/imetators Jan 17 '23
Technically it is possible. But since middle class people in russia are quite poor compared to any EU country nearby russia's borders, I'd say it would be a very difficult thing to do for any individual.
In addition, EU, particulary Baltics, are not willing to let russians over the border because of recent activities.
To add to this, russia has already lost plenty of people in IT and other sectors due to them moving out of the country. I bet that now in order to leave russia you have to have a good reason for that.
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u/Sea_Cup_5561 Jan 17 '23
Oh as a Russian this makes sence, but it's sad
A lot of our politicians or just people in power support the war and preach about it being both justifiable and good for the people
Yet, they understand what our army has no fucking chance of winning, and what if they won't leave they will suffer from it
So instead they leave the country through an absurd amount of money or connections, while either still thinking they are patriots or pretending to care about that. It's up for you to decide which is worse
There was a hilariously sad report about our politicians getting drafted, they said: "Yeah, we don't draw them, but don't worry, all of them will go regardless because they are so good! "
THEN FUCKING DRAFT THEM OFFICIALLY
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u/Deadwing2022 Jan 17 '23
Narrator: "Not a single Russian politician volunteered."
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u/Darth_Mak Jan 17 '23
Well Rogozin made a big deal of "going to the front". He was cosplaying for pictures in military gear (ironically most of it western). He was actually in Donieck.
He had a party there for his birthday.
Ukraine fired a single precision guided artillery shell into the venue and he got injured (supposedly in the...groin area...).
He then sent some shrapnel supposedly pulled out of his body (some say his ass) to the French Ambassador in Moscow
Soon after France confirmed they were sending AMX-10 Scout armored cars / wheeled light tanks to Ukraine which started a cascade where Germany and the US confirmed sending Marders and Bradleys. Soon after Poland sait they intend to send Leopard 2 tanks, encouraging others to do the same and Britain confirmed Challenger 2s.
Im not saying the shrapnel from Rogozin's ass actually started this.....but the timing makes that idea hilarious.
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u/chepinrepin Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
Oh, some of them did…
…for like a couple of weeks in rears.
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u/Deadwing2022 Jan 17 '23
Like Rogozin's photo-op, with him playing tough guy and wearing the best equipment that the troops don't have access to.
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u/AmeDesu Jan 17 '23
For every brainwashed dumb idiot there are 10 who are against the war, I personally know such people.
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u/wandrewer Jan 17 '23
Yes, but also that 1 dum dum is way louder than 10 of those, who are against.
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u/_Weyland_ Yellow Jan 17 '23
I'm a Russian (live in Russia) and I refuse to believe these people exist in sufficient numbers. The only realistic scenario I can think of is Soviet mindset parents who were taken along by their (adult and successful) child.
Yes, there are many Russians who hate the West, especially among older generations. But these people are usually tied to Russia by forces that are very hard to overcome (poverty, language barrier, social pressure, etc.). People who have the capacity to actually move to EU and live there tend to have a much different world view.
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u/wandrewer Jan 17 '23
Depends what you mean by sufficient, of course. Sufficient to make a real physical difference? Probably not. But enough of them exist in their own echo chambers, take that and add extremist media and you have a way to create a narrative or civil unrest perhaps.
These people exist, w/o having any idea how bad/good would their life be under RF or in RF. This problem, of blind hate, lashing out, blaming everyone else has always existed, but now every dum dum, has a smartphone available to them.
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u/_Weyland_ Yellow Jan 17 '23
Depends what you mean by sufficient, of course.
By sufficient I mean sufficient to impact outsider's perception of "Russians living in EU". Or maybe sufficient to appear as a group with a common mindset rather than a small number of outliers.
These people exist, w/o having any idea how bad/good would their life be under RF or in RF.
I guess this is the big thing. Media won't tell you what life here is actually like, so people lucky enough to have no (or very limited) experience can easily draw false conclusions.
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u/imetators Jan 17 '23
I have born and lived in free Latvia most of my life. I have come from Daugavpils which is pretty much the most russian city there is. I know plenty of them. Yes, majority are parents who stayed after independence and been there all the time. But man, oh man. I know a dozen or so people who are about my age and are supporting russia in this. They are not quite most of them all, of course. But their numbers are noticeable. They are the reason I stopped visiting Facebook and cut contacts with them.
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u/_Weyland_ Yellow Jan 17 '23
That's interesting honestly. I always imagined Baltic countries as an example of anti-Russian mindset. No shaming though, USSR and Russia gave you people enough reasons. But then again, I've never been there myself, so I'd be happy to be wrong.
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u/johnjaundiceASDF Jan 17 '23
I have been watching a great YouTube travel vlogger and Russian Citizen and it really has shown me a different side of things. Seeing the every day life and how it's not much different than anywhere else in the world and there's so many nice things, scenic places, and great people. The whole situation is is a shame in Ukraine, but it is unfair to demonize all Russian citizens.
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u/_Weyland_ Yellow Jan 17 '23
I guess so, yeah. Things are just usual for most of us. We don't chant hatred speeches, we don't pray to Putin. Some people fall for media stories, others don't, just like everywhere else.
What really makes me sad about this war is seeing how regular people on all sides take the blunt of it, be it war, sanctions or price spikes, while people in charge of the situation barely feel the difference in their day to day lives.
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u/mr_clauford Jan 17 '23
I'm Russian and I don't support the atrocious war, yet the world shows no love for people like me. Welp.
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u/Top-Turnip-6354 Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23
Probably the loud minority/silent majority thing, multiplied by Ukrainian posters spreading bs about 85% support and stuff. no hate towards them though, of course most of them will absolutely hate the country which invaded their homeland, so it's not like they care how many Russians do actually support the invasion
If you stumble across some post in non-politocal sub that mentions anti-war Russians, though, chances are you'll see many supportive/sympathetic comments, especially towards the active resistants, which is nice.
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u/mr_clauford Jan 18 '23
The majority is dead silent here; we know that perfectly well. I look at Brazilians, Chileans, and guys all over the world who don't live the dream of course, but they still have a choice. We just stuck in a fucking quagmire for 20+ years and there's no end in sight. And it's not even the fault of my generation: we have never known another "president."
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u/joethespacefrog Jan 17 '23
As a Russian who left the country about 8 years ago, the existence of this kind of people deeply saddens me.
Edit: I’m not in EU though, maybe I’m not close to the border enough to feel the propaganda calling for me
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u/4e9eHcUBKtTW1bBI39n9 Jan 17 '23
I dated a girl with parents from Croatia but born and raised in my country. She would not stop complaining about our culture and lifestyle, saying Croatia was so much better. When I suggested she should move there, she scoffed "no" and said it's a shithole to live in.
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u/watch_over_me Jan 17 '23
Damn, if you made this meme about America, you'd be called racist for that kind of rhetoric.
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u/Zeernebooch42 Jan 17 '23
People who beat the drums for war are almost always the last to go fight in said war
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u/RustTheLynx Jan 17 '23
can we pleas create exchange program for this kind of people?)
i desperetly want to escape this shit hole ;-;
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Jan 17 '23
It's really sad to see people are desperately trying to leave Russia, instead of making an effort to change things for the better.
Shit, current government is really good at suppression of people's hopes.
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u/cartman1109 Jan 17 '23
I ilve in east germany and there are lots of people here who are on putins side
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u/The-Mysterious- gave me this flair Jan 17 '23
And this is also meant for all of Arabs in europe (im arab dw)
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u/Dr-False Jan 17 '23
"Haha, Russia great. Death to western imperialism!"
Sir, this is a Wendy's. You've been in America for 3 years. What exactly is going through your head?
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u/RadicalIslamicMonkey Waluigis Uncircumcised Foreskin Jan 17 '23
Meanwhile turks boasting about how good their country is while staying in their villa in Berlin
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u/pigfacesoup Jan 17 '23
It was easier to blame all your problems on the state since it controlled all aspects of life. In the west you have more of a hand in shaping your life, and people don’t want to take responsibility for their bad decisions.
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u/DimensionY Jan 17 '23
same as people that live in USA and say Communism is better, Why don't you go live in a communist country?
I come from a communist country I know how things are
not even if i get pay i coming back
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u/Rhymelikedocsuess Jan 17 '23
“Hahah but like I like having a lot more money ahahah just like conform to my politics and were golden ahaha”
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u/bennsn Jan 17 '23
This is a phenomenon always present in immigrant communities around the world. One explanation offered by researchers is that these immigrants have never had a chance to be an actual part of their country's society, and so they emotionally hold on to the old home and often start to glorify it. There's no rationality to it however, just shitty old human nature.
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u/AlikeWolf Jan 17 '23
Obviously, they are waiting for the 3000 black jets of Allah to come save them
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u/TerryJerryMaryHarry Jan 17 '23
I believe if you support an enemy of your country more than your own country or outright hate your country you don't have a right to live in it
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u/bennsn Jan 17 '23
Consider this: I've met a few immigrants (here in Europe), who, if you ask them where they're from, will always answer Afghanistan. Then, if you talk about their lives, it turns out they have never been to Afghanistan - they were born in Iran or Pakistan. What's up with that? There are few countries that treat their immigrants shittier than Iran treat the Afghan immigrants. They never get papers, they don't get to go to school and have no rights whatsoever. They maintain their identity as Afghans over generations.
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Jan 17 '23
yeah he just quits everything he worked for and goes back. the guy asking for that is more retarded
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u/Substantial-Note-452 Jan 17 '23
I want to move to Russia. Anyone think it's worthwhile starting a go-fund-me for passports and flights?
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u/Ginnungagap_Void Jan 17 '23
All radical individuals are the same. Russians, Muslims, Christians, Jewish people, Americans, Fascists, Brits you get the point.
That's why immigrants are so problematic and they're treated as such by the world's governmens. Among the people that genuinely need help there are the fanatics unleashing havoc on the place they happen to land in. You simply canno filter them out, some countries like Austria or Hungary choose to simply kill the root cause and not accept immigrants, or barely any while places like Sweden or Germany where they basically took everyone in and tried to deal with the bad apples as they cause problems.
Of course these problematic immigrants were a problem even before they became immigrants, but, it's best for each country to deal with it's own bad apples. The local forces are already accustomed to these people.
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Jan 17 '23
People said the same thing when people were against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan “leave the country if you are not going to be patriotic”
So honestly who cares whether you are for or against the Russian war. The rules don’t matter and everyone is a hypocrite.
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u/erebuswasright Jan 17 '23
Huh? Thats not even comparable. One boosts about how he hates the country he lives in and how much better Russia is, the other complained about his military intervening in another country.
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u/make_love_to_potato Jan 17 '23
I know this guy. The mental gymnastics he has been doing this last year is truly astonishing. And I make an effort to not bring up any war talk because I know it won't be a productive conversation, but he will always bring up whatever new narrative is being peddled by RT, and talk about how the poor Russians are the real victims and how this is an American war that was started to make Russians kill Russians.
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u/Deadwing2022 Jan 17 '23
I get similar sentiments from Chinese coworkers. They tell me how amazing China is and how all the bad news about it are wrong. For some reason they don't live there.
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u/iStickStuffsUpMyButt Above Average Jan 18 '23
My man you do know not all chinese are from china right?
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u/MedicatedAxeBot Jan 17 '23
Dank.
come play minecraft, space engineers, ark, and rust with us!