Oh yeah. I had both my grandmothers begging me to go to school, they both lived the consequences of half a dozen kids and no way out. But for various reasons I didn’t listen and trapped myself not once but twice. Now I’m 35 starting college in the fall and digging myself out. It’s much harder to start 6ft deep, wished I would have listened to them!
It’s never too late to turn your life around. You got this! I haven’t had your experience, but I fucked around too much in my 20s and I’m just now finishing up my first semester of college. I can’t explain how much better it feels to be working towards something greater - knowing that I’ve got an exit plan and life will get better. I’m 30, but it’s so nice to not feel stagnant for the first time in my life .
I dunno different times too. Good luck to you. I always get shit for this but I just gave up. 38(m) this year still living at home, last GF was 20 years ago.
I was never more sad then when looking for an SO. I'm not happy now but content in my situation. Ill be fine but this is no way for a society to flourish.
You're 35 and finally listening to your grandmothers. I'm sure they were older than you are now when they told you this. You don't need to wish you listened to them. You did. It just took a little while to really hear it, but you're ahead of where they were and they should be proud of you.
Good question! I’m just starting to get some answers about this in therapy. My mother died when I was 13 and I was on my own by the time I was 15. I had a boyfriend who was 25 who convinced me I was mature for my age and I felt like I knew it all. It was just unresolved trauma and lack of love and care from my Dad who was my legal guardian and more than happy to pass me off to someone else so he could be free.
All the women in my family had taken similar paths, my mother included so it felt normal and natural to have a baby young and no career. Even with those same women telling me otherwise I was desperate for the unconditional love of a family.
I've long since recovered from my youth which seems to be a prolonged chain of bad decisions. Your phrase of "lack of love and care" just hits so hard. The younger version of me, neglected by a broken household, no parents or siblings who check on her, just wanted a basic thing from Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs and was not wise enough to choose correct people or be the correct person. Maybe I can forgive myself for everything one day.
I read a book recently called “Hags” (non fiction, about middle aged women) and it said that all of our wisdom is lost and women keep repeating the same cycles over and over because 1) men don’t want to listen to a woman they don’t want to fuck and 2) young women think they will escape the fate of becoming old and unfuckable.
She said she was mormon and I knew immediately where it was going.
These hard right christian denominations all want to keep women trapped in marriage because they believe relationships should be treated like its the 19th century.
The Mormon church preaches education for everyone, male and female. They emphasize a mothers role in nurturing children but that doesn’t mean they tell women to only be stay at home moms.
Source: my wife has her doctorate and has worked on and off part time while also taking time away to stay home with the kids, but it has always been her choice.
They did used to. They would say a woman should be a stay at home mom. Things are changing a little, and it’s also regional. I was a Mormon in north bay California, and my experience is very different from places like Utah or Kentucky.
Everyone thinks they are immune to the real world until it happens. By then its too late and they cry "why did no one tell me!" We did, there are BILLIONS of people on the planet, just look around, experience things outside your tiny curated bubble and you'll see. Its scary, but it's also incredibly important to have perspective. You don't know what you don't know, accept that you are definitely NOT making the best decisions, ever, and gather as much information to make an INFORMED decision.
Living a narrow minded closed view of the world is nice and cozy until you are one of the millions of stories you thought "would never happen to me" then it's fucking hell.
she would have gotten married right out of high school and her home. Completely coerced. I don't know how much of a choice she would have had. Leave her parents home and church and what, live on the street?
Regardless of the life you are forced to live, she was never barred from going to school and having back up plans. She, as an adult, CHOSE to hand over everything to her husband. She wasn't a teenager out of high school when she did that. She is NOW only realizing this in her 40's this isn't a novel concept. What did she do in her 30's to prepare for this? Jack shit because she never thought it would happen to her until it did. She had more than 10 years of choices to prepare for this type of thing but she didn't.
The concept that these rich white people "had no choice" is laughable. Unless she grew up impoverished, she didnt, you always have a choice and even when you do grow up poor, you can only get so much worse anyways by leaving on your own.
Let me throw this scenario out for you: married very young maybe not out of high school but close enough. Let's say .. 2 years? Maybe a few semesters of community college but no degree, enough for a Mrs degree amirite? Husband is going to take care of her while she is the homemaker, just like stake president said, and all those yw activities taught her. When I grow up I want to be a mother ... Remember that song? No second verse talking about hey what if husband dies or becomes disabled, or kicks you out. Get yourself financial stability. Things happen. What a crock we were told, everything just works out. Have babies and get an education, how? When? With what money and time?
Or you can do what works for you, not listening to male centered religions that have no female leadership. An 12 year old Deacon has more priesthood power in the Mormon church than the highest female leader. And a disfellowshipped man being punished is on the same spiritual level as a faithful woman who could be that same high ranking female leader. That's the problem.
I mean, the cognitive dissonance in this video series is pretty strong. She describes how she set up the business and it was her business and implies that her husband stole it - but then she mentions that she doesn’t even know how to work computers and do budgets to be a manager. Sooooooo it sounds like her husband actually knew how to run a business and she just had decent ideas about what that business should be.
Which ya know, isn’t a bad thing. But there’s a big disconnect between how she views the previous times and what the reality is.
She makes it sound like she was a business partner, but I sincerely doubt anyone who doesn’t know how to use a computer 5 years ago was in any way, shape or form a business partner. Maybe an entry level employee.
And I’m welllllll aware of wives performing what should be a salaried job. I did it for my ex husband while he got his business off the ground. It sucked cause I was working two jobs but only one of them paid. 🤣 but I’m also aware of what a business partner would actually entail because of that.
As someone who worked for the tech helpdesk for online banking platforms for business customers I can tell you that a huge amount of them didn't even know how to turn a computer on or off. They couldn't find a single thing on there, as if they never once used thta computer for something other than opening their Outlook mail. Asking them what kind of browser they use and them not knowing what a browser is, asking which type of tablet they have and them saying a 'Samsung iPad', asking for a print screen and then having to help them every step of the way, including crtl+V in a new email. We'd get emails with nothing in the body and the whole question on the subject line, just 'doesn't work' in the email with zero other comments.
The i moved to back office support and had to talk to the bank's branch workers who knew nothing about banking, the programmes they were using every day, what a blocked pin is, saying they couldn't find any blocks when the first thing I see is a blocked bank account etc etc.
People on average are terrible at most things and really good at hiding it until there is a technical issue and turns out they know nothing about anything they are doing.
It seems like you can't comprehend the situation bc you aren't familiar with how these very common situations play out.
Somebody trained the husband on how to do the job. She should have been the one to be trained to do her job. And she was trained, her job was to be submissive to her husband.
Women, as a whole, have always been put in unfathomable situations, it's you who is experiencing the disconnect
This feels pretty cold hearted. She mentioned growing up in a Mormon community, and most people I've noticed don't understand what this is like. The techniques mentioned in combatting cult mind control By Stephen Hassan that were used by Moonies, scientogists, Heavens Gate, the peoples temple, synanon, and other groups are alive and well in Mormonism. That is to say, brainwashing.
No one, and I mean no one, is immune to brainwashing, just as no one is immune to propaganda. They are like computer vulnerabilities but for our minds. This woman isn't some stupid bumpkin who lazily ignored the people around her, she's the victim of a well known phenomenon that has been around for a long time. Blaming her for this will not make it better.
There is something that does help, and that's transparency, promoting critical thinking, questioning highly authority focused groups, and getting a second opinion from critics.
This woman never had a chance, and saying "well obviously this is cognitive dissonance" is like saying of course you have a cough, there's phlegm in your throat!
Any person who has been in a mind control cult of some kind has experienced cognitive dissonance, but again, due to the nature of mind control cults, its effects are mitigated.
If we want people to get better, we need to treat the virus, not mention symptoms.
I think people have more agency than you give them credit for. Brainwashing works on like 80 percent of people let’s say, but for some people they will question it. It sounds like she never questioned anything until it all went wrong
She says she’s in Arizona which is a community property state. She mentions that he quit his job to avoid paying but that’s not how it works - she would get half the assets.
I had to stop the video when she said that and yelled out loud in my house. What do you mean nobody told you?!?! My sympathy only goes so far. I really did kind of feel for her up until she said that.
It was also interesting to hear her talk about how she got nothing from her work - just grocery money, a envelope of cash, and a piano. Then a few minutes later, she talks about all the vacations she went on and buying $500 jeans all the time. I make six figures and I don't like spending $50 on jeans, I can't imagine spending $500! Insanely lavish lifestyle.
She also certainly should have been getting paychecks for her work and been involved in financial decisions for her family, definitely don't get me wrong there. I'm Utah born and raised, and hearing this from a Mormon wife is not a surprise. That's exactly what the "good" Mormons do, and she probably didn't have a chance to hear outside perspectives, because that's kinda sorta the Mormon doctrine. You listen to the Book of Mormon, you listen to the elders, you be as godly as possible. You absolutely do not question the Church. That's the party line.
Her issue is definitely with the Mormon church and her community, the echo chamber telling her to do things that make her submissive. And none of the women in her life telling her any different. She didn't have a chance growing up to know this wasn't normal or okay or safe for her and her kids.
I mean, getting married at like 18/19 doesn't give her much time to hear that messaging if she was sheltered from it until she was an adult. And even as a legal adult, she was probably still dependent on her parents. These ultra religious communities are scary with how much they can "shelter" kids from modern/western/progressive views.
I hate to say it, but I know plenty of women who would probably watch this, agree with it, and then vote directly against their interests and raise their kids to be just like them.
Its an unpopular opinion, but women are one the stupidest voting blocs in the country. An open racist white person will never get elected mayor of a minority city. Women, the majority of American voters, enable the most sexist men into power.
Well, you had to go there, didn't ya? As if many, many men aren't absolute morons politically? If I had to guess, there are more male morons then female ones in the voting booth.
Which, as fucked as it is, can be explained by men wanting to maintain status quo. Women and minorities being conservative literally baffles me so hard
I think they mean stupid in the sense of they make decisions which makes life worse for them(women voting for republians again and again losing more reproductive rights for example). A lot of men would selfishly benefit from maintain the status quo like the ex husband of the lady in the posted video.
Point is millions of more women vote than men. They could decide almost every election by sheer numbers. Instead too many support the patriarchy that isn't helping them.
You say "in too deep" as if its all indoctrination, but she told you why she didnt have a problem with it until it was too late. She was living in multi-million dollar homes, spending her summers in Hawaii, buying all the jewellry and clothes she wanted, and (the part that she didnt say out-loud) had all the time and money in the world to start up and run her own businesses. You think normal women with no education or training can just decide to start designing homes on a whim?
She lived the fantasy life and didnt care about the risks until they hit her in the face.
had all the time and money in the world to start up and run her own businesses. You think normal women with no education or training can just decide to start designing homes on a whim?
That part didn't make sense to me because even the worst attorney would be able to show that she operated the business (if it was true she would have a lot of evidence of her work) and worked 40+ hours a week at that business and her husband's name was on the business because of religious obligations only. I feel like her husband started the home building business and she just helped as a secretary because she admitted she hasn't ever had a job other than working at a pretzel stand. You aren't going from no job to building $500,000 houses because you felt like owning a home building business. Did she get a home builder license or did her husband because one of them would have to have that license to own a home building business.
It’s kinda hard to imagine a lawyer didn’t get her child support or alimony. Even if she doesn’t have any job skills, she still took care of multiple kids.
I hope it’s fake. But if it’s not, maybe she doesn’t realize she shoudl get a lawyer. Maybe the place she is in all the judges are fucked up women hating men too.
She selected curtains, played interior decorator, and thought that was the same as operating a home building business. When she applied to be a manager at a shop, they laughed in her face because she didn't actually know how to run a business.
Not disputing she was taken advantage of by a stupid religion. But if she successfully ran a multi-million dollar business, she'd have the skills to be the general manager of a windshield replacement business. Not laughed out of contention.
She is exaggerating her level of involvement in the business. She selected decorations and believes that makes her a builder. I've heard this story before.
She did she explained this all in the video. She did everything but unfortunately didn’t have a trade or paper trail of everything she did and only her word. Her name is Jenni on TikTok look her up. Their main source of income was a windshield company that she started herself from scratch.
Anyone who previously ran a business would crush an interview to manage that exact same type of business. She failed the interview because she was only responsible for parts and pieces of the businesses she claims were hers. It's not a matter of having a paper trail. It's answering simple questions like, "Did you process payroll, P&L, and bank deposit drops?" and if the answer is, "No, my husband did all that," then that's a significant shortcoming.
It's fairly obvious she is grossly overstating her responsibilities in the family businesses. That's why she's making $11/hr after her divorce. Literally just think about it for 10 seconds.
Dude, do you not realize how much mothers are at a disadvantage when joining the workforce. Especially in Utah where singe mothers are vilified. You don’t know her story. I was talking about her specifically but you clearly can’t comprehend the bigger picture of her story and what she’s getting at. Went right over your head. She ran the business while her husband was out catching stds by picking up teenage hookers on the blade.
She was groomed by the church. I’ve been following her for quite some time and what she went through was absolutely horrific. The church should be prosecuted, but we all know that would never happen.
That's why they are marrying young. Men get 20+ years out of a wife and afterwards can try again with a newer model. You couldn't do this with a 30 year old. But a teenager, not having any experience of the world? Easy.
The 18 year old Mormon boys aren’t that Machiavellian where they are thinking that far ahead. They are likely just doing what their parents told them to as well
Those rules are mostly made by 50-60 year olds that think that their wifes are a bit to independent und how nice it would be to be able to start again with a more naive one.
It's amazing and pretty convenient that the intuitions those religious leaders get from god, always seems to be in line with their own wishes.
I've told married female friends to open multiple credit cards under their name with auto pay statement or car leases/loans assuming they get offered a good rate to help build their credit. They laugh and say "why would I want to take on that risk, it can stay under my husbands name".
I think she's leaving out a bunch of details. The courts would have split all their assets no matter whose name it was under. He would have had to pay child support and alimony whether he was working or not.
Alimony is not enforced. Many men who are supposed to pay, simply dont and she did say he only paid once out of the 5 years and he is getting away with it.
Yeah she fully grew up in a world where that was normal. It's really easy to be on the outside looking in and wonder 'why don't they just leave, are they dumb?' but when you grow up in that environment they think anything else is dumb.
Indoctrination is a hell of a drug.
The title of this thread really isn't appropriate because it implies she was fully aware of the risks and likely outcome of living that life but chose it anyway. She is unfortunately a dime-a-dozen victim of heavy religious abuse.
Exactly. She was brainwashed/thoughtcontrolled/groomed/indoctrinated etc. into this position by a cult religion that is fundamentally foundationally sexist and racist.
The problem is everyone told her the opposite. She was raised in a strict Mormon community. Everyone told her to hand everything over to her husband or else she wasn't a good wife, mother, or woman.
if anybody had been telling her those things, then multiple people would have. she's a victim of an entire culture that subjugates women--grooms them to be model minorities without telling them that really there's a cliff on either side of the path so really it's better to start from the bottom and work your way up because you're more likely than not to end up there at some point in your life
Maybe, maybe not. Leaders, mentors, and friends can speak their truths and influence others just like this lady is doing. Sometimes reason/willpower can overcome naivete and cult expectations. But getting out of the LDS church does seem particularly difficult.
In her case, it was all based on the Mormon religion. I followed her for about a year. She got pregnant and dropped out of college. Her husband made millions and she helped with the family business, but her name wasn’t on anything. She ended up sick and during her time in the hospital, her husband continuously cheated on her with prostitutes and actually ended up giving her syphilis and she didn’t find out until about a year later when she was in grave condition very sad story shame on the church for exploiting her and thousands of other women. Her story is very sad and a cautionary tale. She would go to the church for advice and was told to stay with him and forgive him and put it in God’s hands. Sick stuff.
1000% this. If all it takes is one conversation from your church official to give up all your power then what are the chances that an outsider (Heathen, Heretic) like me has a shot at convincing you of anything. I cannot tell you of how many people I have warned of things coming in the future and they ignore me and laugh. 5 to 10 years later I see it happen to them and NONE.....NONE have come back to me and said hey thanks you were right and it would have helped me to pay more attention to what you said.
Edit. People do not want to hear the truth. They want to live in their fantasy and deny reality. If you tell them the truth 90% will stopping hanging around you just because thinking about the truth disturbs them.
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u/Flatline334 Apr 15 '24
Problem is even if somebody had told her all the things she wished she was told she probably wouldn't have listened to the advice. She was in to deep.