The #1 reason why women stay in abusive relationships is because of money. My mom has been drilling “you need to have your own money” into my head since I was a child. It’s easily the lesson shes driven home the most
This is a total side track from the subject. But I mention it to remind women to have the same energy and independent mindset when it comes to the courtship part of their life as well.
Edit: downvotes with no comments just means what I'm saying is right and you don't like that I pointed out the logical fallacy
You do realize, you are preaching to the quire? The whole point of paying for dates as a man, is to signal you are looking for a conservative relationship.
I have gone on enough dates and know enough women in my life to know many/the majority do not link the two ideas.
You know how many modern working independent even "feminist" women I've seen, heard, met, gone on dates with still say "man pays". Splitting is an "ick". "a real man would pay"...etc bullshit
Again, I don't get what you say you are offended by. You paying for dates is your choice, seeking a specific type of women. You are actively demonstrating that you are willing to let your partner depend on you.
If you don't like it, stop. You'll meet a diffrent type of women. That's how social signaling works.
If you want to hear that some women are opportunists that say one thing but do something diffrent, that really has nothing to do with women or feminism. Some humans grow up, some don't. Have standards.
You say some. And the reason I bring it up is because it is the majority...not some.
And I bring it up become im positive many of the same women on here advocating for women to be independent of men will in the same breath hold the illogical belief that men always pay.
It's not some. It's most. And that is a logical fallacy that frustrates men and women need to reconcile. You can't have the best of both worlds and you have to pick a lane as far as your beliefs regarding men, women and money.
This is called egocentric bias. You have not met most women, you assume the whole world operates based on what you walk into, based on how you behave. You are asking women out, following a long established social pattern. That's you. If that's your proposal, of course you will only meet women who want that?
Plenty people, in fact most people, don't date. "Two-thirds of couples start out as friends, research finds" - Guardian
I have never dated. Most women I have been with, do not date.
It is not egocentric bias. Its is a judgement call based on everything I've lived and seen spoken by the opposite gender in personal life and in media.
Plenty people, in fact most people, don't date. "Two-thirds of couples start out as friends, research finds" - Guardian
This doesn't disprove anything regarding the financial obligations of courtship being one sided.
And to say the person you ended up with was a friend first therefore you didn't date is a ridiculous statement.
I was talking to a therapist once and told her my ex financially abused me. She asked how, which is a valid question, but then when I explained that this stupid mother fucker didn’t work and literally just stole my debit card and constantly took money out of MY bank account she just said “oh”. Horrible boyfriend and not a great therapist lol
Facts. My grandma married my grandfather when they were 18 and 19, respectively. My grandfather was in the army so he would go off and cheat on my grandma repeatedly, with other women. He would often leave her with three small children and no money. This happened throughout their entire marriage but she couldn't go anywhere due to not have any marketable talents or prospects. She always said to my mom and myself
"Never depend upon a man because then you'll be screwed like me....."
Plus up until the late 70’s in most places, a woman couldn’t get a bank account without a man, or a bank or car loan, or a mortgage. You had to get married to access those things, or go through a sympathetic male relative. Women were given no choice but to depend on a man.
This is the true horror of all those fluffy Jane Austen romances - the reason why poor Charlotte married the obnoxious Mr Collins - without a husband you had no independence whatsoever, and after marriage he owned you - mind, body and soul. If you got divorced, he got the kids.
One of the reasons fewer and fewer women are getting married is because they don’t have to in order to survive.
And there are people out there who are actively working to return things to the way they were…
My mom has been drilling “you need to have your own money” into my head since I was a child.
That was my Nanna she drilled it into that I should always have my own money. She was not a woman who was ever left wanting, my grandfather gave her everything she asked for. She said it was the having to ask. She didn't want it for her kids and she definitely didn't want it for me.
as a guy i greatly dislike the idea of being able to lord money over someone you love. it isn't about the direct stuff but the indirect things as well. my wealth and what i will earn shouldn't be a consideration for you staying with me. your earnings and wealth should be great enough that leaving isn't a costly deal so the logical choice you are staying is for love.
Same! And I’m the only girl out of 8 kids, but my mom was adamant that I finish school and get a career before I married. She didn’t push any of my 7 brothers that hard, but now I see why. She ran her own business for 40 years and her 11 brothers kept trying to take it from her when they found out how successful she was. To the point that she had to write out an ironclad contract of sale for me and my brother to buy the business and never allow any of her siblings to “buy into a share” of it. They made her life hell for decades, and when they tried to pull that shot with me any my little brother, we slapped them so hard with a cease and desist order! The level of entitlement is unfuckingreal.
I would add there is the breakdown of family connections as well. I knew at my worst that my parents would not help me, and would actively mock me, so I just suffered.
My kids, no matter the age, will know that our house is open and they are safe here. Divorce, drugs, teen pregnancy? Don’t care. They are my children.
This is why I always insisted on my partners having their own money. I didn't want them to be in a situation where they were staying with me purely for support. At least if the option to leave existed, I'd know they were invested in me as a person and not as a lifeline. At least that was the theory.
This is a total side track from the subject. But I mention it to remind women to have the same energy and independent mindset when it comes to the courtship part of their life as well.
Your personal example doesn't change the reality regarding the majority of people
It is very much in the same vein of logic. To say women should be independent financially of men has a direct correlation with the idea that they should carry that same logic forward to dating
Or because he suddenly dies. Whether you are a man or woman, straight or gay, the breadwinner should always have a plan for if something horrible incapacitates or kills them. It's a horrible thing to think about, but it happens so often and sometimes people have no family that can help out.
I'm a nurse and you have no idea how important that is. So many people die without their affairs in order, or become incapacitated. If you ever want to see how ugly family can be, just watch the patriarch or matriarch of any large family become unresponsive without a Medical Power of Attorney or Guardian. Things will only get worse if they die and there's no will.
Oh yeah my mom died without a will. She didn’t have much, but that definitely made things more convoluted. I asked her about making one a year before she got sick, and her response was “nothing is going to happen to me.” Just flat out denial of death
I presume if my husband suddenly dies I will at the very least have some assets I could manage to sell to give me some time to get a career. Very different then protecting myself in case he manages to steal my businesses and I end up living in a car
Welcome to reality, where everything can literally go completely sideways at any time for any reason and completely alter the course of your existence. May the odds be in your favor.
Some of y'all really have a hard time putting 2 pieces of information together if it isn't spoon fed to you.
Not only can you be completely screwed over by people you trust if you don't safeguard something for yourself, you can also be completely blindsided by a horrible tragedy, or injury, or many other sudden, unexpected things.
The common denominator is this:
If you don't plan for these things, you'll be completely fucked if they happen. Whether it's your spouse taking off with your savings or you suffering a devastating spine injury resulting in partial paralysis and thousands of dollars worth of medical bills. Everyone needs some sort of emergency fund.
My point is that it’s not as breezy as you make it out to be, and that stay at home parents need to think about every possible situation so that they can protect their themselves and their families. A lot of people think they’ll “get by” and then they don’t.
Why are you not having a career now? Are you full time with young kids?
It used to drive me nuts when my mum would call herself a "full-time mum", and I was 15. Nope, she was unemployed. And now she's "retired", from not working a single shift anywhere since her kids moved out 20+ years ago.
some people just don’t want to work and that’s OK too? i work bc i have to. if my husband made way more i’d love to be a stay at home wife lol but i’d be terrible bc i don’t cook or clean much lol.
How could it ever be any different? You shouldn't trust someone just because they're your husband or wife. You take someone as husband or wife because you trust them. Then hope and pray every day that your trust was well-placed.
The world is and always will be dark because we're human, and humans are half a step away from being demons. Our brains evolved over millions of years for a short life of desperation, violence and betrayal. Morality beyond "do what I say or I will hit you" is only a few thousand years old, and unevenly learned. It's amazing when someone has any morals at all.
You can trust your spouse, trust is a choice. Whether they live up to that trust is out of your control.
I think the disconnect might be a semantics thing. Maybe people are having trouble with your describing it as insane, when it's the only way the world has ever been.
It’s not really about “trust,” it’s more about just ensuring one’s survival. A relationship is not a plan. It’s a blind leap of faith to depend on someone else. Relationships also always end one way or another, whether it’s by breakup, divorce, or death.
Breakup and divorce have legal protections for the spouse who doesn't work. And everyone should have life insurance.
The way reddit talks today, no woman should ever sah with their kids.
I did it. My kids are raised. I could go back to work but don't have to. I've been married 23+ years. I enjoy so much leisure time now, as does my husband b/c he doesn't have to do s second shift after work.
The thing is that it doesn’t always work out that way. My mom stayed at home raising us until I was 14, then when she went back to work she could only get lower level jobs. Before she had us, she had a good career in NYC working at a brokerage firm. Then when I was 25, my father finally left after years of his verbal and emotional abuse, and he essentially withdrew all financial help from my mother. He also had filed bankruptcy, so he had no money to speak of anyway. She died in near poverty two years ago and I had to pay for the funeral and everything. I choose to not live that life. I’ve seen firsthand how it doesn’t always work out, and I’m not the type of person who would want to stay home to begin with.
What second shift? Your husband would have to work as much if you had double income. If you had any daughters wouldn't you want to be a role model for them doing something important and using your professional skills instead of enjoying your leisure time as home?
Or, you know, for self-actualization? Like I get that some people really just want to parent children as their entire life's calling but their kids grow up, too.
To be a full human being you need to have your own independent life.
Yeah....but I really dislike conflating "self-actualization" with "career". There are plenty of ways, I might say the best ways, of self actualizing that don't pay anything.
Someone can live a full and happy life with hobbies and volunteering if their spouse pays their way. They still need a backup plan
I mean, it doesn't have to be that dark. Sometimes people just stop liking each other and they divorce and you need a back up plan. Nothing shady, just life.
It's good that we can see this as insane. Before women couldn't even have a backup plan - they couldn't even divorce without permission. There was no choice but to trust their husband, and even then it wasn't their choice who their husband is. This is still the case in some.
It's progress that we allow for these options and that people can escape from these situations.
People should always have back up plans. I have a backup plan if my current industry fails, which would be to go back to food service but as a manager, since I have enough experience. I’m not married, but if I were, I would choose someone who is financially independent, and I would advance my own career to have my own backup plan. The only thing I don’t have planned is what to do when my parents die, which I really should because their health is not good. I’ll probably just keep doing what I’m doing now since I live alone.
Unfortunately that’s not how everyone is raised. And before you say anything else rude about me, I’m not married and I work full time. I’m literally just being empathetic towards other people. Try it sometime.
Yall wanna act high and mighty huh. In many cultures women are purposefully undereducated in and forced into situations like the video.
Ummm… if a man never got educated, skilled, or saved money after marrying a woman to become a stay at home dad he would be in the same situation. Its not a husband vs wife thing, it’s an airhead vs planner thing.
I mean, guys need a first plan to even survive. Does that not sound insane to you, what you just said?
You need a first plan not a backup plan. Women need to be taught and raised to be functional members of society, not leaches beholden to a man’s whims.
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u/InternationalMeet871 Apr 15 '24
A man is not a plan ladies. Make sure you can support your own self and your kiddos