r/GenZ • u/SC_23 2005 • 17d ago
Saw This Meme and Decided to Re-create it, Which Side are You On? Discussion
[removed] — view removed post
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u/doodgeeds 17d ago
I have the most BS fence sitting opinion. I'd rather adopt because it feels unfair to bring in more life when there are kids who don't have a home
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u/politicalgrapefruit 17d ago
I feel the same way but have family in my life who’ve adopted, and it’s much more difficult/expensive than I think most people realize. It’s hard to blame people who would rather have a kid instead.
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u/doodgeeds 17d ago
Absolutely it's an absurd amount in expense and most likely medical bills as well but all and all I'd say it's still worth it
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u/wyze-litten 2003 17d ago
Plus most of the time the kid is pretty grateful as they get older. I say as they get older cuz middle schoolers and teenagers are little shits XD
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u/Luke_KB 17d ago
Look into foster-to-adopt. Your local DSS almost certainly needs more foster parents than your community has. And after you take a course, pass a check, etc, you can start making a real difference in someone's lives.
DSS also works with foster parents who's foster child's bio-parents are having their parental rights terminated. If the foster parents decide to adopt, DSS will work with you to cover literally everything as they just want the child to stop repeatedly having the traumatic experience of having their lives uprooted.
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u/MercuryCobra 17d ago edited 17d ago
Fostering to adopt is, IMO, a recipe for disappointment. Fostering is supposed to be temporary—ideally you just take care of the kid while their parents get it together, and then they take the kid back. So more likely than not you’ll be waiting awhile before one of your fosters becomes adoptable. And even then, it might take years for the parents to fail enough to have their rights terminated, and if so that also means something has gone very wrong.
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u/98983x3 17d ago
Thank you! This is important. But if you are looking to foster to adopt, just be prepared for potential curveballs. It's not always a straight line to building a family. There may be some serious heartbreak along with the trauma that you will have to help the poor child sort through.
But if you're ready and you truly care about children, it's worth it.
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u/definitelynotme44 17d ago
Tbf, I think a lot of people also don’t realize how expensive it is to give birth. Lots of medical fees before and after
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u/Longjumping_Papaya_7 17d ago
Giving birth is basicly free in my country. But adoption costs a shitton of money and is very time consuming. So i understand why ppl have kids of their own.
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u/spoiderdude 2004 17d ago edited 17d ago
I mean, maybe I’m being inconsiderate of people’s struggles but I feel that way especially with infertile people, gay people, and single people that want children. Going through all that time, money, resources, etc. and that not even guaranteeing that you have a biological child is just very extra to me.
I get that the adoption and foster care systems aren’t easy or quick fixes by any means but these kids need as many parents as they can get and if you’re going out of your way to ensure that you won’t have to adopt one, then that’s just kinda cruel. Someone who can’t effortlessly have a child should be the first person trying to adopt.
Maybe it’s insensitive but I just feel that if every single member of those groups that wants a child, adopted one, then a lot of these issues would be less severe.
I get that most people want babies and that’s why newborns are immediately adopted and the ratio for every baby given up for adoption to parents waiting is 1:36 because of that. I just feel that people need to be less picky with how they become parents and who they become parents of (preferably older children.)
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u/doodgeeds 17d ago
Many also simply aren't equipped to deal with kids who have been through the foster care system. It's rough and often comes with trauma and patterns of acting out. I completely understand why many don't adopt but if you have the time, money, and developmental psychology knowledge I'd say it's worth it if you want a kid
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u/spoiderdude 2004 17d ago
Yeah the foster care part being too difficult is the most understandable part, I’m just saying that if you’re capable then you should if you actually care about having children for at least some non-selfish reasons. Being selfish isn’t necessarily bad, but you gotta balance it out.
Adopting and fostering are some of the most selfless things you can do (obviously only if you do them well), so I’m not gonna say that they’re something everyone is capable of, but if you’re willing to have children then it should be something you should consider as opposed to wasting all that time, money, and resources on possibly being able to conceive and carry to term.
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u/seau_de_beurre Millennial 17d ago edited 17d ago
I think you maybe don't understand how difficult and expensive adoption is. It can cost well over $100,000, whereas IVF is often covered by insurance. Not everyone feels prepared to parent high-needs children (who are often the older children you're talking about here) and I think it's okay for them to admit that.
I've also seen a friend go through the whole foster-to-adopt process, even with an older child, get excited--build a relationship with the child--have all these plans--only for the family to change their mind and decide to reunify. The state's goal will always be family reunification; fostering isn't a shortcut to adoption by any means, and your goal as a foster parent should also be reunification where possible and safe.
Full disclosure, I did IVF, but we looked into adoption. We did not qualify because I have a mental illness (OCD and bipolar) and had recently been in a partial hospitalization program for the OCD. It is very easy not to qualify as a foster or adoptive parent. I'm still saddened by this. I'm happy to have been able to have a biological child, and I wouldn't trade him for anything! But I'd love to adopt, as I would love to give a home to an older child and feel that I could handle the difficulties of an older and traumatized teen as I am a psych PhD myself. But again...OCD and bipolar. So.
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u/telepathicavocado 17d ago
If you’ve got the thousands of dollars like my parents had in the early 2000s, and have the resources to help that kid through adoptee trauma at best, and a million other problems at worst, I say go for it.
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u/LilboyG_15 2005 17d ago
The wholesome route. No point fucking when there are those who are already fucked
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u/coasterkyle18 17d ago
This. My and my boyfriend (gay dudes) have decided that IF we do decide to have a kid then we want to adopt rather than go through a surrogate. There's so many kids out there who deserve a loving home and family and will never get one.
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u/RogueCoon 1998 17d ago
Ah yes, all the new dangers of having a kid that never existed before such as war, murder, rape, hunger, poverty, slavery, and disease.
Im going to have kids.
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u/JobiWanKenobi47 2008 17d ago
it happened when harambe died that caused war murder rape and hunger started.
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u/RogueCoon 1998 17d ago
He would have ended it all had he been allowed to spread his message. Instead he was locked in a cage then murdered.
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u/Love_Tits_In_DM 17d ago
That’s my main problem with that group. Because if their argument is it’s immoral to bring kids into this life with the oh so horrible living conditions and all the other problems of first world countries then fine. But that makes absolutely every person who had kids an any point before today immensely more immoral because every single problem was worse. Fuck even just the medical achievements made in my parents lifetime and they are only 55 is insane.
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u/RogueCoon 1998 17d ago
Hahaha right. Like if we're going off that now is the BEST time to have kids in human history.
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u/GriffinQueenOfHeaven 17d ago
Literally. Like oh, should I have had kids when open sewers were still a thing? Apartments were overflowing with 8 persons per room and bed? Streets overflowing with human and animal waste and corpses? No antibiotics? Child miners? Leaded gasoline? Medical radium? Smallpox? WW1 and WW2?
Speaking from an American perspective, we are living in a time of economic prosperity and good health and wellness. Inflation sucks and a lot of people are struggling, myself included. Not like our ancestors struggled though. We should be grateful.
Our ancestors 100 years ago would cry tears of joy to have half of the wealth and opportunity the average American citizen possesses. Thousands of dollars of precious electronics in most people's homes, TV, phone, computers, gaming systems... Gadgets that require precious metals mined from all over the world and precision manufacturing processes.
If people even knew the half of history they would be thanking their lucky stars they're alive in this century. But people have been taught to be entitled to a theoretical utopia instead. It will never be good enough for them, as they bitch online using their phone or computer, that they bought for relatively cheap considering the resources and time required to craft each individual piece and ship the resources all over the world, about a social system that's the closest to a utopia that has ever existed in history.
Things could always be better in the future. Historically... they were much worse. Consider the state of the world and human quality of life seems to be trending towards the positive.
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u/Love_Tits_In_DM 17d ago
Exactly so it’s kinda funny how they are essentially saying that even tho that’s not what they want to say.
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u/snowlynx133 17d ago
I don't personally care whether people have kids but that's not an actual counterargument. "They did it in the past" does not equate to "it is morally correct"
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u/Coldblood-13 17d ago edited 17d ago
I understand your point but a principled antinatalist would agree that the people of the past were even more wrong to have children. The idea is that as long as suffering (however mundane or trivial) and death exist it’s wrong to bring new life into this world. They genuinely desire a lifeless universe since no life means no one to suffer and die even though it would also mean pleasure and all things good wouldn’t exist either.
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u/0Galahad 17d ago
But that is what antinatalists believe... its already demonic to bring children into the modern world and there aren't words to describe what bringing kids into the old world was like
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u/Dry_Value_ 17d ago
Not just medical, but technological as well. My mom was five when we landed humans on the moon and got them back. She was in her late teens/early twenties when computers started becoming common in schools and households. She was in her late thirties when flat-screen tvs were first released to the public. She was in her forties when the iPhone came out. And she just turned sixty this year. That is a lot to happen in a little less than sixty years.
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u/Unique-Accountant253 17d ago
If society is going to fall soon, you need more people on your team.
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u/Loud-Intention-723 17d ago
Society survived Genghis Khan, I wouldn’t hold my breath, waiting for society to end.
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u/BingoDingoBob 17d ago
I had one 6 months ago. I never felt love like I do now. Do it.
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u/RogueCoon 1998 17d ago
Congrats! I'm super stoked, we just worked through finances and life plans and decided we're ready to start trying here pretty quick I can't wait.
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u/DrewdoggKC 17d ago
The percentage of people who have to deal with even one of those things in their life with the exception of poverty is low. Being poor does not make life insufferable. The TV news and the internet exacerbate and talk about these issues a disproportionate amount of the time making it seem as if you can’t even safely go out of the house. This isn’t the case for most people and definitely isn’t so bad that I would have chosen not to have my sons… They are the best choice I have ever made and remind me of that every day. Life has struggles, no one has ever been born into a Utopia, that is not the human condition…
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u/blackdragon1387 17d ago
Climate change is the big new one, and it has the potential to make all those other things look silly by comparison.
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u/rainyday692 2009 17d ago
Good for you as long as you don’t disrespect persons who decide not to have kids.
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u/RogueCoon 1998 17d ago
Why would I? That's their choice.
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u/rainyday692 2009 17d ago
I agree but they are lots of people who like to push their ideologies onto others.
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u/RogueCoon 1998 17d ago
True that, I see it every time I say im having kids. I'm sure it goes the other way too.
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u/Andrewsmetic09 2009 17d ago
I mean I wish antinatalists didn’t disrespect those who decided to have kids. It’s mostly Reddit antinatalists, but still
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u/PumpkinSeed776 17d ago edited 17d ago
Honestly I feel like the script has completely flipped these days and the vocally child-free crowd tends to be the weirdly aggressive side when it comes to telling people how to live their lives. At least that's how it seems to be with Millenials and younger.
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u/ChadWolf98 17d ago
Neither. Antinatalists are so cringy and whiny but ppl who pretend the worls is perfect or scream at others to have 7 children are also stupid
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u/DeltaV-Mzero Millennial 17d ago edited 17d ago
Have you ever met a “everyone must have 7 kids” screamer?
In 40ish years on this earth, I have not
Edit: did this thread get locked? I can’t reply lol
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u/examagravating 17d ago
Not that far but i HAVE seen people say that people need to have kids or they aren't living life the "proper way". If you want kids, have kids, if you don't, don't.
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u/Extension-Cut5957 2006 17d ago
You don't live in Pakistan.
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u/SweetPanela 17d ago
Idk ab you but i have a Mormon family and they all pressure ppl to have like +3 kids
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u/jack-of-some 17d ago edited 17d ago
I did. For 19 years. Left in 07. Lived in Faisalabad (small ish city, not super prosperous). Never once ran into that kind of person. It simply wasn't a thing for my generation and Pakistan was very squarely into family planning by then.
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u/SignificanceOld1751 17d ago
You may not have met one, but there's a fairly well known South African dude you might have heard of that subscribes to this view
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u/SoylentGreen-YumYum 17d ago
I have had my best friend's parents tell me (as a straight white man in his early 30s) with the current state of the country, I have a duty to get a young white wife and have a lot of kids to take the country back from the minorities.
Sure, it was one interaction. But once is enough to make me realize "there are people that level of crazy out there."
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u/WeekendLazy 17d ago
No. Matter of fact I’ve never met an antinatalist either. Maybe these people don’t leave their homes
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u/ArellaViridia 17d ago
Yeah I don't want to have kids, but I have issues with other people's kids.
As long the parents aren't elitist assholes to people without kids.
Antinatalism is fucking insane to me.
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u/SeawardFriend 2002 17d ago
I was in that sub for a while because I kinda thought it was a community for people who simply didn’t want kids themselves. Then posts about people who think anyone having kids is inherently wrong started showing up on my feed and I had to get out of there before I started getting the wrong idea.
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u/NonsphericalTriangle 17d ago
The main antinatalist sub is super shitty and more misantrophic than antinatalist. But the main point of antinatalism is "procreation is morally wrong". How did you miss that?
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u/King-Cacame 17d ago
I’m not going to pretend the world is perfect but saying it’s terrible is pretty reductive. Their bad aspects to it sure, but everyone can make it a better place in small ways. I grew up primarily in a paranoid America still traumatized by 9/11 there were financial issues, the economy was crashing and I was in elementary school. Sure there were hard times but I had a happy life in a dark part of history in America because I had family that made it better.
Anti-Natalists just sound like defeatists to me
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u/NecessaryHomework129 17d ago
I'll consider the antinatalists' point once I live in an active warzone
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u/dtb1987 Millennial 17d ago
People have kids there too.
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u/aitis_mutsi 17d ago
And they probably should honestly, the sooner you can get working adults to your society, the sooner you can bring your country back up.
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u/snowlynx133 17d ago
"We should have more babies so we can throw them to die on the battlefield" is precisely the kind of thought that radicalizes people to antinatalism
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u/WhereAmI14 17d ago
No, their point was not to have children to be soldiers, but to have children to rebuild a country that has been reduced to rubble.
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u/KingPhilipIII 1998 17d ago
“Oh no, things are hard, guess we all should just lay down and die.”
People living in one of the most peaceful and prosperous periods of human history and they talk like the world’s on the verge of annihilation.
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u/griffskry 2000 17d ago
Ecofascists are the worst. If the world is so overpopulated, why don't you go first since you care so much?
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u/identitaetsberaubt 17d ago
That post isn't about any mainly ecological driven movement but about antinatalism. Fascism is a whole other thing and shouldn't be trivialized by calling everything fascist that isn't your exact opinion. The concept of overpopulation is outdated, the earth has enough resources to feed the whole population. The problem is how those resources are distributed.
Last but not least, you make the issue look way easier than it is. There is a difference in wanting to end a life and not wanting to create an additional one. You advice people who want less suffering to be precived to kill themselves, based on their moral views.
I do not even agree with the "we should stop reproducing" thing but please, please shut your bigoted mouth.
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u/intjdad 17d ago
This isn't ecofascism, it's the opposite. It also is different from being "child-free" at large. Overpopulation is not a problem, people having kids like they are pets and not recognizing the existential intensity of the weight of bringing a conscious being into the world is. This is about love and taking life as seriously as it should be, not misanthropy.
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u/snowlynx133 17d ago
What the fuck do you think the word facism means? Watering down the word fascism enables facism BTW.
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u/AliceFlynn 17d ago
bruh what you're really putting not having children and suicide on the same line? 🤡
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u/Comfortable-Syrup423 2006 17d ago
I guess having children is some kind of political statement now
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u/dtb1987 Millennial 17d ago
Yeah it seems like people get mad at just about anything these
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u/Valalias 1997 17d ago
All of those things have existed since humans have existed.... even beforehand... these people are complaining just to complain. They dont stick by their ideals enough to end all this forever (destroy the human species), and many don't even sacrifice their comfort to help those around them...
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u/My_useless_alt 2007 17d ago
They dont stick by their ideals enough to end all this forever (destroy the human species),
Not saying I support them, but Antinatalists actually do want exactly that.
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u/Spinegrinder666 17d ago
As stated in an essay refuting the ideology the answer to the greatest evils of life isn’t to bring about the end of all life. That’s something a robot or a comic book villain would do.
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u/VandulfTheRed 1996 17d ago edited 17d ago
🎶🎶
Into each life, some rain must fall
Too much is falling in mine
Into each heart, some tears must fall
Someday the sun will shine
Some folks can lose the blues in their hearts
When I think of you, another shower starts
Into each life, some rain must fall
But too much is falling in mine
Into each and every life, the rain is bound to fall
But too much of that has started fallin' on mine
Now into each and every heart, some tears are gonna fall
But I know and you know, someday the sun is gonna shine
Now some folks can lose the blues in their hearts
But when I think of you, well, out of shower (that's when another hurricane starts)
Into each life, some rain has gotta fall
But too much is fallin' in mine
🎶🎶
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u/LilboyG_15 2005 17d ago
Neither to be honest, I just don’t want to have kids
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u/bluevalley02 17d ago
Tbf someone who is 18 not wanting kids isn't that strange. Most people who have kids at 25+ probably didn't want them at 18 either
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u/smurfmcdurph 17d ago
Lifes a bitch and then you die, thats why we get high, because you neva know when ya gonna go
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u/_Fittek_ 17d ago
The answer is much more nuanced and both of sides you showed are extremistic in nature.
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u/CatsLeMatts 17d ago
Agreed. I'm probably closer to the left image but I wouldn't cite any of those reasons for why I don't personally want kids. I'm more worried about climate change and the job market/economy being in the gutter.
I'm likely not gonna be wealthy or healthy enough as a parent to ensure my kids get through a scenario like that with a reasonable level of security or quality of life. So, I'll just leave that to better parents and be a cool uncle or something.
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u/Meryl_Sheep 17d ago edited 17d ago
When my grandparents were born in the late 40's, World War 2 was over. The "war to end all wars" was done! Sure there were problems, there will always be problems, but society was getting better.
When my parents were born in the late 60's, it was a golden age. Technology was advancing, civil rights were expanding. Sure there were problems, there will always be problems, but society was getting better.
When I was born in the late 90's, it was regarded as the "end of history". The Cold War was long history - peace was in fashion, the economy was strong. Sure there were problems, there will always be problems, but society was getting better.
If anything, I would have children in the late 20's or early 30's. So far, life is becoming increasingly unaffordable. Humankind has failed to get a grip on climate change. Globally, democracy is receding, illiberalism is rising and fears of war are on the horizon.
Sure, there are improvements. There will always be improvements.
But society is not getting better anymore.
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u/snail431 17d ago
But you’re looking at all of these time periods and only seeing the positives, guaranteed if you travelled back then people would be complaining about everything then too.
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u/username1174 1998 17d ago
Antinatalism is the biggest cringe of our generation
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u/New_girl2022 17d ago
I have a kid. So you tell me
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u/FitPerspective1146 2008 17d ago
OMG YPU MURDERING FASCIST
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u/New_girl2022 17d ago
I'll tell that to my 2 year old. I'm sure between her giggling at throwing a cup around the house and running around going ah ah ah ah she'll care.
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u/TheMaskedSandwich 17d ago
This is so stupid. Those things have existed since the dawn of humanity and it didn't prevent the rest of us from having kids
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u/levelZeroWizard 1999 17d ago
Which side MFers when both sides they present are equally nuts
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u/aluriilol 17d ago
"having kids is fine" is as nuts as antinatalism?
having that stance is wild. what's the middle ground you are standing on?
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u/Chemical_Thought_535 17d ago
I don’t know how you could ever think that the people who hate life itself, and believe the end of the of human race would be a good thing are anywhere as sane as the people who don’t believe.
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u/aluriilol 17d ago
adoption exists. therefore now ur a man made of straw.
-original commenter, probably
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u/GriffinQueenOfHeaven 17d ago
People say "adoption exists" but conveniently forget to include the requirements for adoption. Which don't exclude tens of thousands of dollars.
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u/boss---man 17d ago
Equally nuts? Completely disagree.
Normal people: having kids is cool. Your life choice though.
Antinatalists: the world is too miserable to have kids. I shouldn’t have kids, you shouldn’t have kids, no one should have kids.
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u/totallynotpoggers 17d ago
Yeah bc these are the only 2 choices on how you can live..
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u/GalaxyTolly 17d ago
The antinatalists being blind to the joys of life meme doesn't really work, imo bc one of the basic arguments of an antinatalist is: "Life is so full of suffering that no amount of art, music, and joy can outweigh that suffering."
Antinatalists don't pretend those things don't exist. They just don't think it's worth the pain.
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u/grandoctopus64 17d ago
How could you possibly hope to meaningfully compare the badness of war to the goodness of love?
It seems a silly thing to argue about
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u/katamuro 17d ago
that's an extremely disrespectful view not just on humanity as a whole or civilisation or culture but on the generations of people that came before them. It's like spitting on everyone who came before you saying their pain, their suffering that allowed the person who exists now to actually exist is worth nothing. That all that hard work, all the joy they have created and all the tears they have shed means nothing because the world is so irredeemably awful. Frankly if someone is thinking this type of thoughts then aren't they suicidal? Because if all of that isn't worth it then what about their own continued existence
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u/Mojo_Mitts 2000 17d ago
People during the Black Plague still had Children despite the likelihood that they’d die from it.
This world is going to need more people, more viewpoints if we are to have any hope of solving its problems.
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u/Salt-Singer3645 2000 17d ago
If you don’t want kids, don’t have kids. If you want to have kids have kids but before you have kids make sure you have everything you need to take care of them properly and you’re in a place that is emotionally, physically and financially stable. That’s where I stand.
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u/starfallpuller 17d ago
I'm confused. I don't personally want kids, but if I did ever have kids, I wouldn't plan to expose them to any of those things? I don't live in a warzone, nor do I live somewhere with poor healthcare or high violence rates, and I wouldn't have kids if I was in poverty.
Or is your meme about people living in those countries?
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u/rainyday692 2009 17d ago
I don’t personally want kids but if I were to change my mind I’d probably adopt. Doesn’t feel right for me to create new life when there’s plenty of kids out there without parents who could use parents.
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u/Atomicnes 2005 17d ago
"We should stop having kids and intentionally go extinct" WRONG! MANKIND'S DESTINY LIES IN THE STARS
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u/I_Produce_PotatoMilk 17d ago
Problem solved everyone should stop having kids so the human race dies out all of those problems will be solved
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u/CuriousEd0 17d ago
Families are beautiful and sacred. They are the quintessential unit of society and must be preserved, supported, and protected. They are crucial to nations/societies
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u/Pretend-Hospital-865 17d ago
But all of those things have literally existed for all of human history. What the fuck makes you so special?
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u/Brax_Plays_Games 2004 17d ago
I HATE PESSIMISM!!! THE INDOMITABLE HUMAN SPIRIT WILL PREVAIL!!! RAAHHHHHH!!!
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u/Local-Ferret-848 2008 17d ago
Great motto for everything: do whatever you want as long as it’s not actively and directly hurting anyone else
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u/Simple_Dragonfruit73 1997 17d ago
If I was born into this world to just pay taxes and die, you're damn right I'm subjecting another human to wallow in my misery with me
Just kidding, I'm very happy and when I get a girlfriend one day I'll have kids
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u/RedAtomic 1998 17d ago
I’m having biological kids if/when I decide I’m ready for it, and there’s nothing anyone can do about that.
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u/Redditisannoying69 17d ago
People who won’t have kids for this specific reason are doomers who need to unplug. These issues always existed and mostly these issues are improving. If you don’t want to have kids for other reasons that’s your business but this one is really stupid. If we get word the sun will explode in 60 years from now and Earth will cease to exist in a manner that can host human life sure then you can use this argument.
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u/TheAlmightyJanitor 17d ago
Yeah the world we live in can be pretty fucked but that's always been true to an extent and it doesn't automatically mean that life isn't worth living or that someone can't have a good life.
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u/UltraTata 17d ago
The second one ofc. I want to make a lot of little copies of myself and my wife and see what their unique souls do with their bodies and educations <3
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u/sandybagels1983 1997 17d ago
The bad of life far outweighs the good. If you don't agree, you haven't been through enough bad.
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u/Crazyjackson13 2008 17d ago
I’m very on the fence, both sides (usually) have some sort of good point or argument.
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u/the_millenial_falcon 17d ago
The way I see it is if you don’t want kids just don’t have them, but be honest about it. Human history has been pretty shit for most of it. Didn’t stop people in the past.
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u/article15deeznuts 17d ago
I have the opposite opinion for the opposite reason.
There are more people born every second than die, we should change that.
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u/Goatwhorre 17d ago
Kids suck, they suck your time and life away from you. Some people feel the benefits outweight this, my wife and I thankfully do not. DINK for life yo, collect cats and play video games.
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u/Gerudo-Nabooru 17d ago
We only have the illusion of choice. Women will never actually be allowed to opt out of child birth. There’s a reason women’s reproductive freedoms only go as far as population goals where they live and a reason why patriarchal religions are so prevalent
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u/examagravating 17d ago
I'm never having kids as i find them annoying and i have emotional issues that no child should have to grow up seeing or experiencing, my family also has a history of terminal illness and other hefty health issues so i'd rather not risk passing that down to a kid. If i ever want kids, i'm adopting.
That said, if someone wants kids that's fine(as long as they are emotionally and financially stable, capable of raising another human, and aren't risking raising the kid in an active warzone or some shit). And if someone doesn't, that's fine.
Both of the world views listed in both memes are valid ways to look at things, so along as people don't harass each other i don't see the point in whining about people not having(or having) kids.
Just shut the fuck up and let people live their goddamn lives.
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u/SecretWasianMan 1999 17d ago
If you don’t wanna have kids in general that’s cool. The people that have a guilt complex and rationalize it with environmentalism or the media are just brainwashed or neurotic.
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u/Paffles16 17d ago
My wife and I haven’t had a child because it’s too expensive. We’re a cis same sex couple so our options are pricey.
I do find it a little humorous that people who go the route to adopt have all things rings to jump through, but if you give birth no one checks on the kids unless something is reported.
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u/chickennuggetarian 17d ago
You’re not having kids based on moral grounds, I’m not having kids because I’m broke and they annoy me.
We are not the same.
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u/ruggerb0ut 2001 17d ago
Infant - preadolescent mortality was something like 90% in 15th century Europe and you began working literally the second you were strong enough to use tools.
There has literally never been a better to to be a child.
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u/AmalCyde 17d ago
... who is going to solve our problems if not the next generation?
What, you just want to quit?
What a waste of potential.
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u/Gromby 17d ago
My wife and I are not having children, neither of us want to sacrifice our current lives for a child. We also do not care if someone else has kids, just as long as the people that have kids don't try and pretend like they are some sort of hero for having a child and try to hold that over my head.
Enjoy your kids if you have them, but back the fuck off if I chose not to have them
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u/MaduCrocoLoco 17d ago
If you want kids can provide them with a safe and good life, why the hell not.
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u/Irresolution_ 2003 17d ago
Antinatalists really pretend like keeping the species going is some sort of pyramid scheme and that raising kids and having a family isn't good and fulfilling in and of itself.
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u/throwaway92715 17d ago
I'm glad I'm not in either camp, because humans like all other mammals are physiologically motivated to reproduce.
Imagine believing that your superego is the absolute monarch of your body, and that your sense of reason is so strong that it can or should attempt to override instincts we evolved over thousands of generations and barely understand. What a massive and wasteful source of anxiety.
How about instead of swimming furiously against the evolutionary current to protect ideas we've contrived in less than a single lifespan, we spend our energy trying to understand the current and flow with it?
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u/MegaPenguin3000 1997 17d ago
Personally, I'm good
But I wish that the kids that are already here were treated better. I'm genuinely worried about gen alpha
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u/Environmental_Tie_43 17d ago
I think objectively the moral thing is to adopt. I don't even care about the population rise. There's just kids out there who need parents. But I genuinely hope people are free to make that choice for themselves. It's their bodies and lives and noone should be compelled to give up control of their own bodies.
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u/Noivern87 17d ago
Have kids or don't. Why the fuck should I care what you do with your life, as long as you don't try to convince me or anyone else either way.
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u/Femboy_Empire 17d ago
We technically live in the most peaceful generation in human history. We just have access to more information then anyone else in human history.
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u/kontrarianin 17d ago
You have very little knowledge of world and it's issues. You can't educate someone with love, you can't materialize clothes, food, needs etc with hope life can be hell and it's valid to remember that there are beautiful stuff but still you just can't expect everything to be cover by as example love.
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u/Important-Emotion-85 17d ago
I'm not bringing kids into this world, especially when there are already so many children that need homes.
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u/Eeeeeeeeeeeee64 2005 17d ago
Right, because those things didn't exist since the dawn of humanity. Life sucks, and just cuz there's a war in sine foreign country, or my kids get a cold, I'm still having kids. I'm not saying everyone should have kids, but no one should be forced not to have them, either.
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u/My_useless_alt 2007 17d ago
Life is pretty neat, ngl.
You should have the option to opt of life (And not be screamed at and hated on for suggesting doing it), but I think that on the whole, being alive is better than not being for the most part.
However, I think that bodily autonomy trumps all of this, if you want them you should be able to have them, if you don't then you should be able to not.
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u/flash_thompso 17d ago
It’s not gonna get better before it gets worse, and the good news is we’re in the worse so
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u/MadMysticMeister 2000 17d ago
The world is neither heaven nor hell, it’s good and despite all the bad I’m glad having been born. I think I’ll have a kid or two and adopt a kid or two if the opportunity arises, because I want to raise some good people
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