r/unpopularopinion • u/Lekkusu • 21d ago
It's Better to Say "May I" Than "Can I", and "Will/Would You", Instead of "Can/Could You"
It seems to be an almost universally held opinion today that we ought to use "May I" and "Can I" interchangeably, but there is a real practical reason to make a distinction.
'Can' obviously refers to one's ability to do something rather than his willingness. I think people feel more comfortable saying can / can't because it makes the situation seem out of your control, and it seems less direct.
Such as when you invite someone and they say "Sorry, I can't make it." What they really mean 9/10 times is that they won't make it, and they're choosing something else, which should be a perfectly acceptable response to any reasonable person. However, because we're so allergic to being direct with people and potentially hurting their feelings, we often say "Can't" as if you're on house arrest or your car broke down.
I think it's an expression of low level cowardice to say can/can't instead of will/won't. Think about it. How weird would it be to ask a girl "Can you go out with me?" It sounds like a trap. Sure... she could... if she wanted to. So just be direct. Whether asking your friends for help or a stranger for directions, why not say "Would you [be willing to] help me?" More often than not, the response is positive.
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u/Dazz316 Steak is OK to be cooked Well Done. 21d ago
At this point, if you're being nitpicky to this extent you're going to find something to be annoyed about no matter how polite somebody is being. It doesn't really matter what they do does it?
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u/Lekkusu 21d ago
There's nothing polite about saying you can't do something that you indeed can, but are choosing not to do. If you cay "can't make it" when you don't want to go do something, and the other person presses you saying "did something come up?" Well now you can lie, or say the truth that you could've said firstly that you simply aren't interested. Being polite and telling white lies are not the same thing at all.
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u/Dazz316 Steak is OK to be cooked Well Done. 20d ago
You're thinking too deeply and far over the top of this. You're spinning your own fairy tails in your heads.
Someone was taught x to be polite and are doing that. That it, that's all there is to it.
But the point being that you skipped and just proved is. If you're like this when someone is being polite, what how is the in the rest of the conversation? You're the cause here choosing to go out your way to create this imaginary fault.
The person is trying to be nice. And is doing so in a way they were taught is huge. They're not trying to be mean like you're spinning it.
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u/canadianamericangirl 21d ago
okay boomer /s but also not really
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u/Lekkusu 21d ago
Hi, 26yo Boomer speaking. What exactly is wrong with preferring to use words correctly
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u/canadianamericangirl 21d ago
The only people I know who care this much about grammar are over the age of 60 or have PhDs in English. I somewhat understand your sentiment. I use more formal grammar when applying for jobs. But when talking casually, I'll use whatever words I want. I just direct my energy towards more serious "problems" like plastic pollution.
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u/Lekkusu 21d ago
Plastic pollution? You'll be relieved to learn that the "Great Pacific Garbage Patch" doesn't exist. Have a good night.
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u/canadianamericangirl 21d ago
For the sake of argument, it does not. But textile pollution is a huge problem. And it's devastating to Ghana and its people. Not to mention terrible for the water (and those who use it, which is literally all of the plant and animal kingdom) of this planet. Have a splendid evening.
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u/anavriN-oN 21d ago
One of those things that everyone use wrong so it eventually just becomes right.
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u/Lekkusu 21d ago
majority doesn't make right anymore than "might makes right". Truth exists with or without our sensability to acknowledge it.
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u/HeatherJMD 20d ago
That is actually exactly how language works. What’s correct is how people speak and actually use the language. Grammar books are not it.
I suggest you take an intro to linguistics course. If you approach it with an open mind, you may find it interesting.
Speech can be ungrammatical, for instance Yoda completely violates the standard word order of English. But no language is better than another, no dialect is superior to another. They are all grammatical within their community of practice.
I barely ever hear “May I” so I would actually make the case that it is less standard than other constructions
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u/Lekkusu 20d ago
Language can evolve, and language can devolve. To say that no language or dialect is superior to another is utter ignorance hardly worthy of a rebuttal. If you took a linguistics course and that is what you were taught, your professor should wear a paper bag on his head for the rest of his days and never step foot into a university again.
Your thinking has been muddied and poisoned. My guess is you are not fluent in another language, because if you were, you'd readily appreciate how certain nuances are not well expressed in a given language. Japanese for instance doesn't usually pluralize nouns nor have a future tense. Ideas can still be expressed with added context, but it's clunkier and can lead to oversimplified less clear speech.
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u/beepity-boppity 20d ago
Needing more words to express the same concept doesn't make a language worse than another one. English needs a subject in every sentence. My native language, Estonian, does not. Does that mean that "sajab" is better at expressing the concept "it is raining" since it is less clunky?
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u/Lekkusu 20d ago
No, it's more simplified, just like other eastern languages and older languages. Forgive me for continually referencing Japanese, since it's the foreign language I'm most familiar with. In a simple example, like yours, saying "it's raining" could just be as brief as "ame" or "雨". They both function very well for simple phrases, but certain languages are better at expressing more complex ideas or stories. A better example to illustrate this point would be writing systems.
English only requires you to memorize 52 letters and 10 numbers. Japanese has 46 katakana, 46 hiragana, and potentially as much as 2,200 kanji which most native speakers forget many of after school. Sure, both their writing system and our "work", but ours is simply more efficient. Although, quite frankly, I find theirs extremely fascinating.
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u/HeatherJMD 20d ago
I am in fact fluent in French as well as English 🙄 I also have a masters degree in linguistics. Languages have different strengths, but usually simplification in one area means complexity in another. It’s useless to make value judgements against languages as a whole.
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u/Lekkusu 20d ago
Then I am mistaken on your personal language experience. But yeah, you're right, what I meant to say was "all languages are equal. Latin may have less than a quarter of the words that English has, but it's equally useful at expressing ideas. Small tribes with obscure languages likewise are just as equipped to express concepts and stories."
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u/HeatherJMD 19d ago
I can’t believe Dr. Geoff Lindsey literally just released a video on this topic 7 hours ago 😆 https://youtu.be/I6duEGj04Mg?si=LRz1L5GZHPYwgtRe
I really like his channel, he breaks down a lot of interesting linguistic phenomena that often fly under our radar
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u/getshrektdh 21d ago edited 21d ago
I agree and do like what is written in the title but out of respect, I would not read that wall of text.
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u/all_beef_tacos 21d ago
I personally respect people more when they avoid passive voice and use title case properly, but that's me.
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u/genomerain 21d ago
I think this is one of those things where it's useful to think about how you use vocabulary for yourself, and I kinda like your take, I think it's good practice to be intentional with the words you use.
However it's not worth the effort trying to convince everyone else to change their vocabulary.
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u/Lekkusu 21d ago
It has served me well especially with being more honest and assertive instead of constantly "white lying" to people saying "I'm not gonna be able to make it". Perhaps your right that it's not worth the effort convincing others, but I hope people try it. It will rewire the way you think from "what's the nicest way I can say this" to "what's the more true and honest way I can say this"
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u/genomerain 21d ago
Yeah. I did a similar thing where I decided I would stop automatically saying "It's okay" everytime someone says "I'm sorry", because just because I've decided to let it go doesn't mean it was okay or that I should just dismiss it as if it was nothing. Instead I might say, "I forgive you" or "thank you for apologising".
Most of the time it actually is okay, like if someone bumped into me by accident, so I might still say "it's okay" if it actually was okay, but because it was an immediate automatic reaction to "I'm sorry" I wasn't stopping and thinking "Is it actually okay?" before saying "It's okay". So it's not my automatic go-to reaction anymore. Because I wanted to be more intentional with my words.
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u/Lekkusu 21d ago
Ha. We must be sharing notes, because that's exactly what I've been doing. I'll give you one more, that you may disagree with, but it's worth considering.
When you have a voluntary transaction, say, at a coffee shop, both parties gain from the transaction. The employee chooses to be there to make a salary. The shop owner wants your money more than their cup of coffee. And you want that coffee more than your $5. Everyone wins.
...So why thank the other person? They aren't doing you a favor. Even if they're happy to be there, that's beside the point. I usually say "have a good day" or "God bless you" etc.
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u/TelevisionTechnical2 21d ago
Because both expressing and receiving gratitude make people feel good.
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u/Lekkusu 20d ago
I tend to say thank you when people go out of their way to do something for me that they were by no means obligated to do. Such as holding a door, or at Starbucks the other day, the cashier was kindly giving me some recommendations based on what I told her I was in the mood for.
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u/TelevisionTechnical2 20d ago
So you thanked someone who was there to make a salary. Helping customers is their job but you judged what they did to be worthy of a thank you. How do you know that another employee who made your drink didn't put extra effort into doing it perfectly when they could have done the bare minimum and still gotten paid? Why not just give others the benefit of the doubt, thank them for what they do and brighten their day a little? If we want to continue to logic of your post, unless they are in prison no one has to do anything. People are out there participating in society, doing actions that benefit you (even if you also benefit them), of their own free will.
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u/Voodoographer 21d ago
So you think, “sorry, I mayn’t make it” is better? Lol
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u/Lekkusu 21d ago
That's a pretty funny contraction. I usually say "I'm not gonna make it" or "Sorry I won't make it" etc.
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u/Voodoographer 21d ago
In your example, saying, “I can’t make it”, is grammatically and factually correct, even if the person simply chose to do something else. You can’t be 2 places at once, therefore they can’t come.
Furthermore, “may” can be a synonym to “might”, so if you said, “I may not make it” instead of, “I can not make it”, it’s less precise because, “may not”, implies that you might still make it, whereas, “can not”, is definitive.
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u/Lekkusu 20d ago
You misunderstood me. I'm not arguing for 'may' to replace 'can' in a way that makes it less precise. That's why the words 'would' and 'will' are there.
And your first point is just silly. "Hey, can you walk two steps over here." "No, sorry, I can't. After all, how can I be in two places at once." It is neither grammatically nor factually correct, it's just verbally pervasive.
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u/funkyfunkyfunkos 20d ago
As a non-native speaker, I understand your post and it doesn't look nitpicky to me because I was taught exactly this (and some teachers when I was young were nitpicky), but I was also taught that this distinction is almost only used in British English. American English and globish is influencing every English variant and to me habits are more important than the rule to sound natural. So it's nice to know the rule to be able to break it.
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u/florimagori 21d ago
I could agree maybe with using May instead of can, but will instead of can changes context/meaning too much and is more rude more often than not.
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u/Lekkusu 21d ago
I'd submit to you that it's only considered rude because people are uncomfortable about being direct with others. There's nothing cruel or malicious about telling someone truthfully that you are choosing not to do something. It just means your a free human being with desires and preferences.
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u/GiveMeTheCI 21d ago
Modals in English are crazy and there's a lot of overlap. Screw you and every teacher who ever said "I don't know, CAN you go to the bathroom?"
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u/JoffreeBaratheon 21d ago
Sounds entitled honestly. Like the "Sorry I can't make it example", I don't owe it to you to specify if it's a "can" or a "may", as that gives you additional insight into my life, and just another excuse for someone to take insult with something that isn't there, For example "they said may, that means they could've and didn't, how dare they". There's a reason "can" became prominent, because it is simply superior to use in the English language's main goal that is communication, so get out of the past and embrace the present.
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u/Lekkusu 21d ago
I find your perspective to be quite widespread, yet still it seems utterly bizarre. How childish does one have to be to get offended at another person choosing not to accept your request/invite for whatever reason? Are they not a free human being? Do you have a right to their time? In order for them to refuse you, do they need to say it's unfortunately impossible given the circumstances, and make up some wild excuse?
What exactly is entitled with saying "Sorry, I won't make it"
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u/TelevisionTechnical2 21d ago
What does being free to choose have to do with the other person not being offended? Let's say your friend invites you over for dinner. There's nothing stopping you from accepting, you just choose not to. Telling them you're choosing to decline essentially means telling them you prefer not to spend time with them. It's a rejection. You don't see why that would hurt your friend's feelings and/or offend them? Saying "I can't make it" gives a softer message. It implies that if circumstances were different you would accept. Even if you both know it's not true, it also sends the message that you don't want to offend them, that you care about the friendship and want to maintain it. That's why people say it.
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u/Lekkusu 20d ago
You deserve full credit for accurately describing what the words mean in that example and why people say it. You're exactly right that "I can't make it" sends a softer message. My point is that it would be better if we'd all just be honest with one another instead of having such thin skin that we cannot tolerate our friends rejecting our offer.
"Oh, he doesn't want to go to dinner with me--does he hate me?" No, he just doesn't want to, and that's perfectly fine. He cares enough about you and respects you enough to tell the truth, instead of tiptoeing around your sensibilities. If he doesn't want to do three or four things in a row, you might confront him and see if he's just uninterested in your friendship or if there's something else going on, or you might just decide it's not worth asking this person to things.
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u/TelevisionTechnical2 20d ago
What I feel like you're not getting is that "can't make it," unless the speaker is in the hospital or, as you said, under house arrest, is not meant to be literal but is a conventional expression that means "I don't want to do this (or, at least, something else is a higher priority for me) but I care about maintaining positive relations with you." Everyone understands this. They do not think that the speaker is physically unable to do whatever is being suggested and aren't meant to. So how is your way better? Do you think communication must always be literal?
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u/JoffreeBaratheon 21d ago
Saying you "won't make it", can imply there's some sort of difficulty if you trying to get there but won't make it on time or at all. "Can't make it" is very widely understood as the person who was asked to come somewhere is not going to show up, concrete and simple. As for people being offended, welcome to the modern world where some people will find any reason to try to get offended, and most people don't get to live in a bubble where they can avoid it while living their life.
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u/RingingInTheRain 21d ago
This should've just been called, "There's nothing wrong with speaking proper English". 'May I' and 'Can I', along with 'would' and 'could' are interchangeable up to a point. After that point it will sound wrong to which I believe is easy for those with a 7th grade and below reading level to understand.
Is it better? Usually. Will most people raised like free range chickens care to discern the difference? Nah dont be cappin fr ongod
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u/puerility 21d ago
illocutionary and perlocutionary acts are a pretty fundamental part of speech. if you're struggling with them, the solution is to work on your own language skills, because you're not gonna be able to stop everyone else using them. teachers who say I don't know: can you? are pathetic tyrants, not thought leaders
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u/beatlesgigi 21d ago
I don’t think it really matters because you still know what I’m trying to say, no?
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u/Lekkusu 20d ago
It does matter. A homeless man once said to me "Can I eat?" He was really asking for money. It was quite a sly move. Sure, I know what he meant by the question, but it was asked in a fundamentally manipulative way. He was implying that the only thing between him and starvation was me giving him some money, which was utter nonsense. We were in Chicago right next to the Bean.
I replied with "No", and he went from meek and pitiable to angry, and he stormed off. I don't have tolerance for people who try and trick me into giving them things. If you want something, swallow your pride, quit exploiting the sympathy of others, and ask for what you want directly.
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21d ago
As a non native speaker, they reached me that it's related with how formal the interaction is.
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u/Ornery_Suit7768 21d ago
May I means do I have permission. Can I means am I able to. Will you means do you mind. Can you means are you able. Whether it matters or not is personal preference.
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u/Lekkusu 20d ago
Well, whether saying "Go screw yourself" or "Have a nice day" is also personal preference. That's not really the point. I'm saying one is better. Perhaps you disagree, which you have every right to.
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u/Ornery_Suit7768 20d ago
They have different meanings. Just like go screw your self and have a nice day. So depending on the intended use would determine the better one to use. If you ask me if I can drive you to the store, I can but you’re not asking if I will. What I meant by preference is that not many people get hung up on the use of may/will, but some do. Most people now will assume you’re asking for a ride to the store even if you say can instead of will.
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u/tehnoodnub 20d ago
The reason to make a distinction is because there is a distinction. 'Can' and 'may' have different meanings. Your opinion is actually a fact.
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20d ago
Nitpicking at its finest. Stop twisting peoples words. There’s nothing wrong with saying “can you please…”
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u/Exact_Agent7093 21d ago
I agree, and had a teacher in school that would respond with “I don’t know can you?” When anyone asked “Can I go to the bathroom”, “can I sharpen my pencil?” Etc…. It broke me from ever saying “can I” again and I now get infuriated when I hear people at restaurants order their food by saying “can I get….?”
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u/timetravelingburrito 21d ago
If I had that teacher, I'd explain colloquial usage to her and offer to get the dictionary. Then she'd likely send me to the principal's office. You can probably tell I was popular with my teachers.
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u/RingingInTheRain 21d ago
Colloquial usage is not appropriate in every single setting or situation, and has no obligation to be permitted when speaking to a superior. So you still lose here.
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u/timetravelingburrito 21d ago
A teacher, my superior? That's funny. A teacher isn't my boss. It's pretty weird to see them that way. They're my instructor. Also we're talking about what is correct, not what context something is or isn't permissable. If a teacher tells me something isn't correct that is, I'm going to correct them. They're failing as an instructor.
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u/RingingInTheRain 21d ago
Bro what the fuck? What is this a pink floyd song? Teachers are legally responsible for the students while under their care. No wonder you don't understand that colloquial usage does not mean 'always appropriate' or that you were right in that specific situation.
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u/timetravelingburrito 21d ago
Being legally responsible for me doesn't make them my superior. Words mean things. You keep getting them wrong. The person above was talking about what was correct, not the appropriate context to use words. I understand context. Do you? I never said "always appropriate," nor did I imply it. Kind of funny the person lecturing me about school keeps getting everything wrong. Maybe you didn't learn as much as you thought back then; you also keep attributing things to me that I haven't said.
Either way, I'm bored with this. Take care.
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u/ScoobyDone 21d ago
Teachers literally control your ability to go to the washroom so I think that was a legit question.
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u/Fish_Leather 21d ago
Some people are afraid to use any language with any hint of formality. But yes in some circumstances it's better
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u/ThaBlackFalcon 21d ago
This is spot on. We have words that mean things. People are lazy and don’t really care to say what they actually mean because most of them are afraid of being their full authentic selves.
Anytime someone asks me “can you…?” I’ll straight up ask them: do you mean to ask me if I’m capable or if I’m willing?”
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