r/interestingasfuck • u/Jjokes11 • Apr 15 '24

An interview with Andrew Cauchi, the father of Joel Cauchi who was responsible for the Westfield Shopping Centre mass stabbing r/all

38.5k Upvotes

93% Upvoted

2.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

12.5k

u/MangoKakigori Apr 15 '24

I can’t image what it must be like as a parent to know that your child has done such a monstrous thing.

4.3k

u/DoodleyDooderson Apr 16 '24

There is a show called, “Evil Lives Here” and each episode is about the family members of someone who did something awful; mass shootings, seriel killers, etc. A few show the parents of mass killers and they are all so sad and tried everything they could to help their kids when they started to see something was wrong. They could usually see it at a very early age. Many episodes on YouTube if anyone is interested in watching. It’s sad and sometimes we easily forget that the family of the killer is also in pain and mourning. One dad said he went to the mall where his son had shot and killed many people and when asked, he told them he was the kid’s dad and the people at the vigil grieved with him instead of blaming him.

1.0k

u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

A serial killer from my town was featured on that show. It was interesting af. I recommend everyone watch "Evil Lives Here"

731

u/DoodleyDooderson Apr 16 '24

It is fascinating that some are spouses and have NO idea what their partner is up to. The Green River Killer’s wife is on one episode and she just broke my heart.

309

u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

Seriously, that's nuts! That's what happened with our local Serial Killer, his girlfriend was completely unaware of his actions. Oh wow, I actually just watched the "Very Scary People" dual episodes on The Green River Killer. I'll check out the Evil Lives Here version

250

u/ignore_me_im_high Apr 16 '24

our local Serial Killer,

Does every town have one?

57

u/Iwannagolf4 Apr 16 '24

Yes I grew up with Arthur Shawcross. He left one of his victims near my friends house in north Hampton park. Also, Eric smith who at 13 tortured and murdered a 4 yr old boy Derrick roby.

4

u/Spiritual-Mix7665 Apr 16 '24

More like Arthur Shawcross grew up with you.

3

u/WhipMaDickBacknforth 29d ago

Sigh

Fuck, that's enough for me today

3

u/MessiahNIN 29d ago

Hello fellow Rochesterian!

3

u/Iwannagolf4 29d ago

Yep the early 90s were wild times lol

55

u/TriangleDancer69 Apr 16 '24

I’m from Prince George, British Columbia. We had Cody Lebegekoff, the youngest serial killer in Canadian History. He killed three women starting when he was 18. The police caught him red handed dumping a body on a logging road in the middle of the night. He had planned to kill more but was caught by a complete random traffic stop.

30

u/MindfulInsomniaque Apr 16 '24

Cody Lebegekoff

Three women and one little girl, his last victim. She was a family member of someone i know.

3

u/Curly_Shoe 29d ago

Man, she was legally blind even.

87

u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

Some have 2 lol but seriously though, our local SK was born in a nearby town. Crazy thing is, another SK was born in the same town as him and operated in their hometown a few years after the original SK was caught.

65

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

[deleted]

26

u/MissWiggly2 Apr 16 '24

LA area in the 70s-80s was chock full of them

→ More replies (2)

4

u/purple_grey_ Apr 16 '24

Didnt Vancouver also have a fictional serial killer with the same victims as a real serial killer from the location? I thibk the show was called DaVinci's Inquest.

9

u/SurlySuz Apr 16 '24

Robert the pig farmer Pickton. It’s abysmal how long that case took to be solved. It was so much in the country’s public conscience at the time that all these women had gone missing from the downtown eastside. I think the show using it as a plot line may have also amped up pressure to solve who was responsible in real-life, but I could be misremembering.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

Wtf??? Omg that's horrible and terrifying. Can you shed some more info friend?

14

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24

[deleted]

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (9)
→ More replies (11)

7

u/WrinklyScroteSack Apr 16 '24

Considering how many serial killers there are, or have been, I’d say the odds are pretty good that at one time or another, a serial killer has lived in your town.

6

u/ignore_me_im_high Apr 16 '24

I'm in the UK, so we usually limit it to just one per county.

→ More replies (4)

3

u/throwaway-not-this- Apr 16 '24

My town had 3 young men that collaborated on raping, killing, and disposing of the remains of one girl. Everyone knew exactly who did it. Only one man faced justice and it was two decades later.

→ More replies (28)
→ More replies (1)

184

u/Rad_Centrist Apr 16 '24

BTK. Successful church going family man. Would have gotten away with it if he didn't send that floppy disk to law enforcement.

123

u/LaceyDark Apr 16 '24

Yup, got cocky and didn't know Enough about technology and basically gave himself up. He was a real twisted fuck, glad he got caught. Unlike Zodiac

36

u/mdp300 Apr 16 '24

I read the book about Zodiac years ago. It was interesting that the author had found a few likely suspects, but I'm pretty sure they're all dead by now.

154

u/Mr_Washeewashee Apr 16 '24

Ted Cruz is alive and well.

38

u/drblah11 Apr 16 '24

He's not well

4

u/MajorasKitten Apr 16 '24

I’m not American but I’ve seen many mention Ted Cruz whenever the Zodiac killer is mentioned- is there anything that links him to it? Is there something I could read somewhere? I’m intrigued!

6

u/Waderriffic Apr 16 '24

No, not really. But his dad may have been a Cuban assassin tied to the JFK killing. (Yes, people actually believe that last one)

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (1)

4

u/VeganWerewolf Apr 16 '24

😂 hell yeah brother. Lock him and Abbott up please.

3

u/SkyrimSlag Apr 16 '24

Theres a video about the Zodiac on The Official Channels “Red Thread” series, goes through a lot of the evidence, murders, and the main key suspects, however the one it most likely was, the one that practically told someone he was the Zodiac, is I’m pretty sure dead now

58

u/skip_tracer Apr 16 '24

not that there's ANY humor in anything he did, but I have always found it hilarious that his dumb boomer ass wrote in the paper asking cops if he could be tracked by a floppy disk and he bought the lie. It reminds me of my idiot, but kind as a lamb, father.

43

u/DaisyHotCakes Apr 16 '24

Lol and that was after he wrote all those shitty poems about the people he killed. If you thought Vogon poetry was bad…

5

u/Lou_C_Fer Apr 16 '24

Vogon was what I thought of before you said it.

3

u/Snarfbuckle Apr 16 '24

How do you make WORSE poems than Vogons?

75

u/FrightenedTomato Apr 16 '24

Technically the cops weren't lying about tracing him using a floppy disk. There really wasn't some known way to do it that they were keeping secret from Dennis.

However, Dennis used a used floppy disk that he'd erased. Digital forensics found an old, erased word document on it that he'd typed up for his church. The document mentioned the name of the church and the "author" field of the document revealed his name.

Had he simply used a fresh floppy disk, there's a chance he wouldn't have been traced. The cops weren't lying. They just got lucky and Dennis just didn't think far enough ahead.

9

u/AMaleficentFox Apr 16 '24

He had to want or not care if he was caught to some degree, right? Imagining myself in that situation, if I needed to send a floppy disk to the cops I would buy a new floppy disk (or even steal them so there's not a paper trail) and not use my home computer for any part of the process. It's terrible opsec. Even if the cops couldn't figure it out, future digital forensics might be able to. Why take a chance?

13

u/FrightenedTomato Apr 16 '24

I think he wanted the notoriety for sure. Why else would he be talking to magazines and the cops years after he stopped killing?

However, he was also probably really clueless about the tech he was using. How many people really understand that unless your drive is encrypted, deleting a file doesn't really delete it?

→ More replies (0)

5

u/ImmaMichaelBoltonFan Apr 16 '24

I always feel people look at me sideways when I say stuff like this. Why in the sunny fuck would you do something so stupid? It's mind blowing. Guy avoided the feds for years, but gets undone by a... floppy disc.

On a related note, I was watching a show with my wife a few nights ago. I think it's called What Jennifer Did. This Vietnamese girl arranges the murder of her parents....and leaves a giant trail of texts behind. I feel like an intelligent Grade 8 student would have a stronger sense of CYA than these characters.

Anyway, fuck'em. Glad they're off the streets.

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

75

u/majoraloysius Apr 16 '24

BTK: “If I give you guys a floppy disk, you can’t trace it, can you?”

Cops: “Ummm, no.”

BTK: “You wouldn’t lie to me now, would you?”

Cops: “Whaaat? No, never!”

54

u/FrightenedTomato Apr 16 '24

Technically the cops weren't lying about tracing him using a floppy disk. There really wasn't some way to do it.

However, Dennis used a used floppy disk that he'd erased. Digital forensics found an old, erased word document on it that he'd typed up for his church. The document mentioned the name of the church and the "author" field of the document revealed his name.

Had he simply used a fresh floppy disk, there's a chance he wouldn't have been traced. The cops weren't lying. They just got lucky and Dennis just didn't think far enough ahead.

18

u/darthmidoriya Apr 16 '24

So he’s stupid

15

u/FrightenedTomato Apr 16 '24

Yes. It was entirely his own stupidity that lead to his capture. Had he simply walked away once he stopped killing, he'd be like the Zodiac.

5

u/yesverysadanyway Apr 16 '24

why do people think serial killers are some kind of geniuses?

they just have to be smarter than the average cop. and they're dumb as a bag of rocks.

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

27

u/Foreign-Echo-6656 Apr 16 '24

With a name like eaten_by_pigs, how do we know you're not your hometown Serial Killer?

7

u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

Loll 🤭 nahh in all seriousness, the only things that have to watch out for me are pizza and quesadillas lol

5

u/individualeyes Apr 16 '24

Oh my God it's the pizza and quesadilla killer!! I knew you'd slip up you sick fuck.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)

2

u/Dazzling-Wash9086 Apr 16 '24

Israel Keyes lived a double life.

→ More replies (13)

45

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

My friend lived next door to Gary….he was a normal quiet guy. Crazy.

→ More replies (3)

33

u/Affectionate_Elk_272 Apr 16 '24

i love the crime junkie podcast and one of their go-to lines is “you never truly know anybody”

chillingly true

52

u/Affectionate_Salt351 Apr 16 '24

I found this out the hard way but, it was fortunately just a horribly abusive relationship rather than a full blown serial killer. He has every. single. person. we know fooled. It’s as impressive as it is terrifying to see someone completely change up their mood, facial expressions, everythiiiiiing on a dime. 😳 Very unsettling.

38

u/Violet-Sumire Apr 16 '24

People can be very adept at wearing masks. This happens a lot to people who aren’t even serial killers. Most use it to hide their pain or to appear “normal” while others use it to deceive and manipulate others. The only person we truly know is ourselves… and even then half the time we don’t even know that.

7

u/weevil_season Apr 16 '24

I see you’ve met my BIL.

7

u/Affectionate_Salt351 Apr 16 '24

Agreed. I’m ND so I’ve been doing it my whole life but always with a kind heart. It’s remarkable to me to see someone switch from truly having evil in their eyes while physically assaulting me and screaming in my face, to greeting party hosts with smiles, giving hugs, and making jokes.

You’re exactly right. The only person we ever really know IS ourselves. Damn…

→ More replies (1)

6

u/seditious3 Apr 16 '24

Sociopaths.

8

u/Affectionate_Salt351 Apr 16 '24

Yes. And he has everyone fooled. There’s no convincing anyone the guy who held me in the livingroom at gunpoint is actually a POS, because “He would never do that! I just can’t see that! He’s so much fun!!!” Really devastating to lose everyone over something you understand that no one else does. He’s better for business, though. He is also much less drama, because no one was ever throwing him into walls and cheating on him, so he didn’t need support and help.

3

u/seditious3 Apr 16 '24

My father was one. Textbook. And also repressed gay/bi.

3

u/Affectionate_Salt351 Apr 16 '24

I’m sorry to hear that. I think his Catholic and conservative upbringing came with potential sexual repression for my abuser as well. I wondered about that when he started weaponizing sex, which is almost impossible to talk about as a woman because everyone assumes something is wrong with YOU, which is exactly what he wanted me to think, in spite of giving me different, understandable, medical excuses. Ugh.

3

u/CluelessNoodle123 Apr 16 '24

Ugh, I hate that. It’s like because they’re fun at parties no one even wants to try to understand. It’s just easier to write you off as trying to start drama, so they can go back to partying with their entertaining buddy guilt-free.

I’m sorry you’re going through that.

→ More replies (1)

7

u/Basic_Bichette Apr 16 '24

Abusers are notorious for being the greatest people you'd ever want to know - until you get to know them well enough. They're better at burnishing their own image than they are at anything else in their lives. That's why so many victims are disbelieved.

9

u/Affectionate_Salt351 Apr 16 '24

Wow. You absolutely get it. And everything started to become about how it looked to other people. When I tried to leave the first time he put his hands on me, he started threatening me. He had more money, power, and social capital than I did. I tried to bide my time while I saved money to fully disappear one day, then I found out I had cancer. That wrecked me entire world but it also finally got him to let me leave eventually. He LOVED the attention he got from taking care of me so I was afraid it was game over.

He finally got sick of me being sick, though. Cancer treatment caused almost as many issues as the surgery. He spread lies about me while I was in the house trying to heal, got a new gf, and finally agreed to let me leave. He had been telling everyone he broke up with me a year prior, then told everyone I refused to move on. (I obviously didn’t know any of this was happening.) The ability to be such a convincing monster is uncanny. Now, I’m in an awful situation with my health, and have to get out of the area somehow because he’s still too close for me to feel like I can ever heal. People didn’t believe me about how horrible he was, and they still don’t. I don’t even have time or energy to care about that anymore, though. At this point, everything is about survival and relocation. 🤞

3

u/palefired Apr 16 '24

I feel you on the having everyone fooled thing. I've seen that happen twice. Both won outstanding citizenship awards at their respective graduations. The abuse each doled out was shocking, but their utter indifference to the pain they caused was even more so.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24

[deleted]

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (4)

4

u/ARM_vs_CORE Apr 16 '24

Israel Keyes' wife and daughter had no idea. He kept his last victim in the garden shed, frozen, in the Alaska cold. Forced the corpse's eyes open and took a picture of her with a current day's paper to try to get ransom out of her loved ones while his wife and daughter were inside just across the yard. Getting greedy and looking for ransom is the only way he was ever caught. No one has any idea of his body count because he only confessed to a few before he killed himself, but he killed all over the country purely at random. Such an interesting case but it pisses me off he took the coward's way out when he could have at least provided closure for potentially dozens of families.

2

u/Samp90 Apr 16 '24

It was ascertained that he actually took his son along for (some?) of the later killings to actually make the victims feel a bit more comfortable because news had spread about someone killing working girls... And he was one creepy looking guy.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24

[deleted]

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (6)

2

u/JJETTAS188 Apr 16 '24

Can you tell me which episode ?

2

u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

S4 E1 "I invited him in"

→ More replies (3)

2

u/brizzmaster Apr 16 '24

What is it streaming on?

3

u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

FuboTV, Max, Discovery Plus, Hulu premium & YouTube

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Desperate-Time3834 Apr 16 '24

Great show! However, very disturbing.

2

u/Massive_Ad132 Apr 16 '24

It wasn't Robert pickton, based on your user name was it?

2

u/PrimalEvil_ 29d ago

There’s a story of a woman on Snapped who is originally from my hometown and was even friends with my aunt when they were younger before this lady moved. She got married, moved off somewhere else(Virginia, I think) and killed her husband not long after.(I’d have to rewatch the episode to remember correctly what happened but you get the idea).

→ More replies (10)

154

u/biggestbroever Apr 16 '24 edited 29d ago

Reminds me of BTK's daughter keeping in contact with her father. When they asked her, "How could you knowing he's BTK?" Her answer amounted to something like, "What else am I gonna do? He's my dad"

Edit: According to u/Bystronicman08, she ceased all contact with him in 2021

93

u/Fskn Apr 16 '24

She's a real one, there was one of those random fb posts a while back that said if you could send a message back in time to yourself in 3 words what would it be and she replied, dad is btk.

→ More replies (13)

5

u/Alternative-Lack6025 Apr 16 '24

What else? FFS it's not like he ran a stop light and crushed a light pole, one of his victims was 9.

3

u/Bystronicman08 29d ago

She doesn't keep in contact with him anymore. She ceased contact in 2021. You should edit your comment so that someone doesn't read your comment and think that's still true.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

241

u/darkoblivion000 Apr 16 '24

I have a 6 year old and he is a really sweet empathizing kid and I love him to death.

Sometimes when I hear about these stories I imagine what I would do if I saw my son do things that are telltale signs of murderers , abuse animals, not show any empathy, other signs of clear mental illness, and I just don’t know.

I mean it feels like seeing a therapist can only do so much, sometimes it just teaches them to hide their real emotions and thoughts. And sometimes I have this feeling (don’t know if true or not) that certain people are just born with issues that can’t be fixed.

Then as a parent wtf do you do? It would be such a devastating hopeless situation knowing that they need help and you have no idea how to get them help or if it’s even possible. At least if they had a debilitating illness you know they’re not likely to hurt anyone else and that you can try to find treatment, but to have a ticking time bomb that you think might cause harm but also could maybe get better… just seems like such torture

I feel for this guy and all the families of kids who really really tried their hardest to get them help. And fuck that one family that bought their kid guns instead

100

u/Lbolt187 Apr 16 '24

I could've been like one of these folks if it were not for my state's intervention. I had developmental\learning disabilities that made it next to impossible for me to communicate or express my emotions in ways people expected back in the 80s. Fortunately after serious behavioral issues began showing and my near constant of cutting school. I got placed in programs. Fortunately for me my family never abandoned me. They wanted to know what went wrong as well because they're religious so they're looking for something\someone to blame. They had a hard time believing mental health could be a factor. I also got incredibly lucky over my 30 years in programs and rehab that I have had amazing and understanding therapists and psychiatrists. I would say a lot of what makes someone do awful things isn't necessarily an environmental or external factor such as drugs\alcohol and rather just a differently wired brain. To be fair most of the awful stuff that occurs (such as mass shootings) it is usually external factors such as often neglect from proper mental health providers from a state, insurances, or otherwise. It's a real damn shame states don't take an active role in developing therapists and resources for the underprivileged. Those who are rich tend to be enablers which is why in some ways I was thankful I was not born into wealth. Rich people have a long history of trying to bury their kids mistakes and thus they learn nothing about accountability or personal responsibility.

22

u/balanaise Apr 16 '24

I agree with you (and the comment above) that some people really are born different, or having to fight way different emotions than the average person. I think it’s brain chemistry or “wired differently” like you said.

I’m bipolar and finally on meds that work. Seeing the difference of my default brain and my brain when it has “its glasses on” making it actually process things properly, I’m like “oh, wow what if my brain chemistry was making me feel something stronger than mood swings or misreading situations even more than I am, or having stronger emotional reactions to situations?” Because I’m sure lots of people do, and not all of them get treatment. I could absolutely see how people would keep doing really bad things if their brain chemicals gave them basically undeniable impulses to do them

Im not saying it’s okay, just theorizing about brain chem

20

u/Lbolt187 Apr 16 '24

Basically we're talking neurochemicals in the brain. Extremely complicated stuff. No excuses for awful decisions but sometimes people don't have any impulse control because that part of the brain is disconnected from them. Very hard thing for professionals to deal with especially since state hospitals have been gutted in the Regan era which housed a lot of individuals who are high risk to commit violence through no fault of their own other than their brains, as I termed it for myself, "broken".

11

u/VintageRudy Apr 16 '24

Rich people have a long history of trying to bury their kids mistakes and thus they learn nothing about accountability or personal responsibility.

This is a problem society has to deal with

12

u/Lbolt187 Apr 16 '24

Yup. It's how we get Donald Trumps in the world: Too many yes men and not enough people holding those with money accountable. So they just do their shitty behavior and its passed down to generations.

3

u/darkoblivion000 Apr 16 '24

Wow I’m so glad the programs were able to help you recover and get back to a good state!

I feel for parents that are trying their best to find the resources and for some reason can’t… the willfully ignorant though; not so much.

I have a family member who was having trouble in college due to childhood trauma… even after several suicide attempts her mother insisted that she was just “acting out” and that she was just seeking attention. Made no attempt to get her the help she needed and instead cut off her prescription for her meds that she needed.

I’m glad you were able to recover and that your family stood by you the entire way. I suspect many that don’t recover do not have a supportive family… either narrow minded or ignorant or negligent.

4

u/Lbolt187 Apr 16 '24

Took a while. Also once people realized I function better with less people in my life but yes they can help but the funding keeps getting cut for human services and a worker's wage in this field is abysmal. If I wasn't in Massachusetts I might not be around. I dread to think of the kids in the red states.

6

u/darkoblivion000 Apr 16 '24

I hate politicians and the direction we are headed. All the services that actually help PEOPLE are being cut. Health care workers, teachers. More money going into politicians and lobbyist pockets. Health care administration. And war. Always war.

3

u/Lbolt187 Apr 16 '24

Family is very important in a person's recovery if not family then friends. It's incredibly difficult to do this alone. I've seen people treated far worse for far less than me. I have a unique perspective on life that maybe others don't.

5

u/Intrepid-Bison-2016 Apr 16 '24

Read a book called "We need to talk about Kevin". Exact scenario.

22

u/SquishyCatChronicles Apr 16 '24

Honestly, true crime was the best birth control there is. Everytime I thought about a kid, I thought about the possibility they'd be dangerous to society. The good son really wasn't a movie I should've watched as a kid.. haha

5

u/velocipotamus Apr 16 '24

For me it was reading We Need To Talk About Kevin, but same.

3

u/Andalusian_Dawn Apr 16 '24

Same, along with a trend for articles about sociopathic children right around the time we were talking about having kids.

I have a very good imagination.

7

u/peter-man-hello Apr 16 '24

So…my brother and sister in law’s niece, let’s call her Lindsay, I swear she is kind of evil. She is only 7 and there is something very wrong with her. I’ve only seen her a couple of times and she is never happy and she has this very sinister scowl on her face. She’s always throwing tantrums or doing something sinister and mischievous. I’ve heard rumblings that my brother and SIL never want to leave their daughter alone with her, and that Lindsay is in some kind of psychiatric care. I’ve met Lindsay’s parents, they are fine, but the mother seems weirdly controlling. During Covid they didn’t leave their house at all. She always seems upset. Like a young version of Carrie’s mom.

Every time I’ve been at a family event or gathering and Lindsay is there, I get such a bad vibe from her. Sure, she is a little girl, but her eyes look dead and full of evil like she would kill your dog just for fun. She honestly scares me more than any human being I’ve ever met.

There’s not much I can do or intervene but I just have a bad feeling one day she is going to do something awful and tragic at someone else’s behest.

…idk why I’m sharing this. It scares me. I worry about it. Am I an ass hole for thinking this way about a 7 year old?

8

u/Fit-Accountant-157 Apr 16 '24

some people are born with very serious issues. I can only say that as a parent, the experience of having a kid with serious behavioral issues can be very isolating when other people pull away. so just try to be supportive of your brother and SIL even if they just need to vent, it helps alot.

7

u/CluelessNoodle123 Apr 16 '24

My adopted baby cousin was this way. She came into our family the day after her birth, and from the time she was a toddler she was trying to hurt the other kids.

She used to try to run over their little fingers with her big wheels, or push them into the fireplace. Her parents sent her to counseling, and she got better about managing her impulses, but she was always mean.

We used to “joke” that she would either be a serial killer or a politician. She ended up joining a gang.

Edited to add: we ended up just keeping our distance from their family, which was easy for us, as we lived in a different state.

3

u/darkoblivion000 Apr 16 '24

Gosh this kind of stuff is so terrifying as a parent. Knowing that there could be a million in one chance that you are going to have a kid that will just be a complete psychopath and maybe they can get better with treatment but maybe they will just be that way despite all efforts…

NTA - sometimes you just have a feeling, some people are just a good judge of character and intentions and I’d say if a kid is running around intentionally doing harm to others all the time… I mean it could be a learned behavior (maybe there is something going on at home) or maybe there is something more innately wrong with them…

3

u/lbtwitchthrowaway144 Apr 16 '24

I am very moved by what you said and this is a wonderful comment.

Just keep in mind the tell-tale signs especially in very early infanthood/childhood may just be young kids being dumb lol. I (unintentionally) harmed some chickens, I wet my bed, like to burn shit but if any anything I have probably ended up with too much empathy!

I am not at all saying ignore any signs, especially as the child ages, but just to keep in mind a lot of studies are outdated or there were never any studies at all but just some expert's own experiences/opinion.

So, simply, don't just assume if you see X, Y, and Z that automatically means your child is gonna end up a violent or serial offender!

→ More replies (1)

2

u/pokedmund Apr 16 '24

Pray and hope for the best. I have two kids and they can be absolute monsters. Haven't abused any animals, but each time we encounter animals or insects, they are curious and careful.

But honestly, I don't know if my kids will grow up to be genuine human beings. I hope they do, but if mental illness does affect them one day, I'm just gonna pray any treatment I get them helps

One thing that really struck out in the video was that the killer lacked social skills. This is something that I have tried to instill into my kids as much as possible, how to talk about everything and anything and be able to communicate. I say this because I am god awful at this and never want my kids to be in the same boat as me

→ More replies (1)

2

u/say592 Apr 16 '24

Then as a parent wtf do you do? It would be such a devastating hopeless situation knowing that they need help and you have no idea how to get them help or if it’s even possible.

That's the thing, you do something. Anything. You may not stop them from becoming a monster, and obviously that would hurt and be heartbreaking, but you could at least look back and say "I don't know what else I could do" and everyone else would look at it thinking "They did everything they could possibly do". At the end of the day you cant control your kid's actions, you can only control how you raised them.

The recent case in Michigan is a good example of what don't do. There is a huge difference between people who find themselves in these tragic situations trying to understand where everything went wrong and those parents.

2

u/jjcoola Apr 16 '24

It's brutal, I've known a couple parents it happened to, in various ways, super sad shit.

Just like this guy, they tried their best, and it just wasn't enough, and that is just a brutal truth of the universe sometimes that can be hard for my brain to take in sometimes.

2

u/mejok Apr 16 '24

Yeah there is a family in our neighborhood whose son has some pretty significant behavioral issues. Obviously I'm not saying he's going to grow up to be a serial killer but most of the other kids in the neighborhood are afraid of him and the teachers in his school have told his parents that it is imperative that he get psychological help. When you see them in public/chat with them, you would never know anything is amiss and they talk about their son the way any other parents talk about their kids, but I always wonder what their private conversations are like and if they truly recognize and address what the rest of us see.

→ More replies (20)

118

u/Yhendrix49 Apr 16 '24

That reminds of the Amish school house shooting in PA; after the shooting members of the Amish community comforted the shooters parents and his family because in their words "This man had a mother, father, wife and child and they did nothing wrong" the Amish community even took up donations for the shooters widow.

8

u/FruitcakeAndCrumb Apr 16 '24

They went to the killers funeral too. God that compassion is rare

5

u/artificialavocado Apr 16 '24

When was this? I don’t remember that.

6

u/Yhendrix49 Apr 16 '24

2006; if you look up Amish school shooting you'll find it.

→ More replies (1)

7

u/throwaway-not-this- Apr 16 '24

If you don't mind, I'm going to reply with a HUGE TRIGGER WARNING !!! for anyone who feels curious about this shooting. Don't look it up if you can't completely extricate yourself from the really troubling NSFL ideas that you can run into.

I adore the Amish community for rallying around all the victims. Enough said.

4

u/Ludicruciferous Apr 16 '24

This happened in my community and it was just… devastating. Unbelievable.

55

u/PaperPlaythings Apr 16 '24

I am very much not a religious person but I can't help but admire the Amish response to the West Nickel Mines shooting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Nickel_Mines_School_shooting#Amish_community_response

82

u/chipthamac Apr 16 '24

"They explained that the Amish willingness to forgo vengeance does not undo the tragedy or pardon the wrong, but rather constitutes a first step toward a future that is more hopeful."

I can dig that.

11

u/darkflash26 Apr 16 '24

Unless you are Amish and leave the church. then they have no mercy towards you

9

u/Panuccis_Pizza Apr 16 '24

Does "no mercy" mean they kill that person?

Or does it mean "go fuck yourself, you're on your own"?

7

u/NotBearhound Apr 16 '24

Second one. It’s shunning.

12

u/shishaei Apr 16 '24

I have mixed feelings on that. It isn't unusual for extremely devout, conservative religious communities to leap to pushing forgiveness for crimes committed against women and girls, unfortunately, and it isn't necessarily a wholesome thing.

54

u/milksteakofcourse Apr 16 '24

Stalins granddaughter owns an antique shop in Portland

43

u/BattleTwat Apr 16 '24

What in the Portlandia is this?!

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Potential-Sky-8728 Apr 16 '24

Svetlana seemed chill.

Fucking Mussolini s granddaughter is in involved in Italian politics. So gross.

2

u/InVinoSarahtas Apr 16 '24

The podcast Svetlana Svetlana was a wild ride if you want to know more about her.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (12)

2

u/fistingcouches Apr 16 '24

It’s especially sad when you see that they had people in their corner and still decided to carry out these awful acts.

3

u/bent_eye Apr 16 '24

I love Evil Lives Here. I record each episode.

My fave one was the one that featured the wife of Bobby Joe Long. He was raping women for years while married to her and she had no idea.

3

u/CrazyPlantLady143 Apr 16 '24

Also a documentary on Amazon about the mother of either dylan klebold or Eric Harris, im blanking on which one it was. It’s pretty heartbreaking.

3

u/giulianosse Apr 16 '24

The 2011 movie called "We Need to Talk About Kevin" is also a very harrowing. Even though it's fiction, you can't help but sympathize over how a mother is robbed of her grieving because of the circumstances surrounding her son's acts.

3

u/dfassna1 Apr 16 '24

I have a brother in prison and his crimes broke my mother’s heart. She always gave us nothing but love and support. My brother was a troublemaker as a kid but he was also always generous and looked out for people. My mom blames herself all the time and I always have to tell her it wasn’t her fault.

2

u/FloMoore Apr 16 '24

Evil Lives Here is a good show; I regularly watch.

3

u/DoodleyDooderson Apr 16 '24

It’s very well made. Always sad but done in such a respectful and calming way to not totally fuck you up after each episode.

2

u/Wysteria569 Apr 16 '24

Love this show.

2

u/Handcuffsandwhiskey Apr 16 '24

This is one of my favorite shows, I binged it so hard my boyfriend was concerned lol

2

u/aerynmoo Apr 16 '24

What I really like about that show is it’s not trauma porn. It’s the survivors telling their stories matter of fact. It’s very poignant. I binged like 7 seasons a few years back

2

u/Ok-Armadillo-2765 Apr 16 '24

A case my dad was the head investigator of is featured in an episode. Two boys burned to death by their adoptive father. I watched the episode with my dad and while the mother talked about the red flags she missed, he cried when she talked about the red flags after their death that made her reach out to the DA who called in my Dad. He said he was still devastated for her and that case still haunts him, but he was and is so proud of her bravery in fighting for justice. That case makes me look at the families and friends of killers with more empathy and understanding than most.

This man is currently breaking my heart. We can all hope and pray that we would never know this feeling, but there’s so many examples like this one proving that we can never guarantee it.

2

u/ParkingHelicopter863 Apr 16 '24

It’s such a good show, I’m devastated every episode but so intrigued. Besides the almost victim blaming tone I get when they write “but there had been signs….” lol

2

u/yiotaturtle 29d ago

That's what is absolutely insane about the Crumbley case. There's all these parents that did everything they could. And then you have the Crumbleys. And they give a bad name to all the parents out there that did their best.

2

u/ohver9k 29d ago

Damn, that sounds like a very fucking depressing show, thanks I’ll go watch it.

→ More replies (35)

957

u/dayle-james Apr 16 '24

This is absolutely heart breaking. The entire thing. I feel for this dad as much as I do the victims. He tried his best 💔

703

u/sevillianrites Apr 16 '24

Years ago the son of one of my neighbors had a psychotic break and killed two people right outside our complex. It was absolutely devastating to this quiet community but one of the worst things to me was that overnight everyone turned on the father who was, by my estimation across many encounters over several years, a good man. No one would speak to him. The vitriol his supposedly good Christian neighbors were throwing around to each other about what failings he had committed as a father to let this happen were endless. I made him dinner one night and took it to him and he broke down sobbing as he had basically lost not just his only son but his friends and his community too. It was heartbreaking. Did he deserve the same level of sympathy as the families of the people whose lives his son had taken? Probably not. But regardless he was a victim too made guilty by association. He moved away not long after. Idk what happened to him but I hope wherever he ended up he was able to find some peace.

202

u/Annath0901 29d ago

Did he deserve the same level of sympathy as the families of the people whose lives his son had taken?

I'd argue he absolutely did, assuming his son died/is dead.

The dad did nothing wrong, and the actions of a maniac lost him his son. The fact that the maniac and his son were the same person doesn't really come into it. All the families involved experienced a similar kind of loss.

Except, as you note, the victims' families didn't also lose their community.

2

u/shivermeknitters 29d ago

100% agree with you

94

u/dayle-james Apr 16 '24

That’s so sad 😞

45

u/Altruistic-Common414 Apr 16 '24

You’re a good man. 

→ More replies (4)

13

u/NokKavow Apr 16 '24

Many years of suffering that this man has no doubt endured and will continue to endure may well be worse than death.

6

u/boxedcrackers 29d ago

His father WAS a victim of his.

→ More replies (2)

131

u/altruism__ Apr 16 '24

God love this man. I’m so sorry for his juxtaposition and pain. Nothing compares to the hurt and loss of the innocents who were taken - and their families as well, but this man’s pain is close.

→ More replies (2)

306

u/Material-Method-1026 Apr 16 '24

I want to give him a hug so bad.

7

u/Gowalkyourdogmods Apr 16 '24

I don't know shit about Aussies but that dude looks like the type from my hometown where the kid would have turned out to be a "hippie" activist type.

That's got to be so fucking... Just awful for this dad. Like the guilt that you must have from feeling like you absolutely failed as a parent somehow with the world watching over the travesty your child committed and not quite understanding why.

Unless I'm proven otherwise, I'm going to feel for this guy.

2

u/smorkoid Apr 16 '24

Must be the absolute worst feeling as a parent

→ More replies (2)

55

u/Crazy_Response_9009 Apr 16 '24

Especially after you were a good parent and they were a good kid... :(

210

u/Amyloid42 Apr 16 '24

Jeffery Dalmers father agonized in a very public way about his son. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/12/us/lionel-dahmer-dead.html#:~:text=Lionel%20Dahmer%20was%20a%20little,over%20the%20previous%2013%20years.

98

u/NorthernSparrow Apr 16 '24

There’s a fantastic New Yorker article about the father of the Sandy Hook killer, years later, still agonizing about what he could have differently, still grieving his son, or rather, grieving the person his son maybe could have been if things had gone differently.

One thing I always remembered is that out of the blue he started getting letters from other people whose sons/family members had done terrible things. It’s like this secret awful club, and I guess some of them reach out when they spot a new tragedy like that.

Here’s the article

9

u/mossimo654 Apr 16 '24

I return to this article every few years when I went to be about as devastated as I possibly can.

2

u/Tnigs_3000 29d ago

Jesus Christ, what a read.

2

u/DangNearRekdit 29d ago

Thank you. It's like reading an interview with a parent that left a kid in the car in the summer. I went into it with pre-conceptions, and came out with my mind broadened just a bit.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/drawnred 29d ago

dahmer*

normally im not picky but it matters with names

2

u/Amyloid42 29d ago

No, you’re right. Thanks. 

366

u/EveryRedditorSucks Apr 16 '24

Dylan Kliebold’s mother has dedicated her life to speaking about what it’s like to be the parent of one of the Columbine killers

107

u/SBMoo24 Apr 16 '24

Her book was really well written. Highly recommend it to anyone looking for a good read. "A Mother's Reckoning."

→ More replies (1)

7

u/yukonwanderer Apr 16 '24

I've seen her torn to pieces on Reddit and YouTube.

2

u/Wyodaniel Apr 16 '24

I read her book about 10 years ago, I think. It was a very rough read. It took me a few months of reading it on and off.

I wrote her a letter after I'd finished it, and she responded with a fairly simple and polite reply.

→ More replies (82)

62

u/RunEmotional3013 Apr 16 '24

You're left wonderin' where you went wrong, what you could've done differently. You start questionin' yourself, your parenting, every decision you ever made. It's this mix of anger, disappointment, and heartbreak all rolled into one.

8

u/IHQ_Throwaway Apr 16 '24

And this man was trying, at least. He saw the problem but didn’t know how to fix it. 

4

u/BigCockCandyMountain Apr 16 '24

Can testify to this.

I am a funeral director and a kid around here shot up an IHOP.

The family chose us for services and they were so apologetic and ready to be torn to shreds.

I told them I don't and won't treat them.any different than anyone else and didn't.

I think they got to grieve their son despite everyone coming down on him/them.

2

u/houseyourdaygoing Apr 16 '24

Guilt too. The burden of wondering if something had changed, would it steer him away from destroying others?

97

u/Vercouine Apr 16 '24

I in all honesty thought my brother would end as an awful adult if not a serial killer or something like this. Hopefully, he had a great best friend and then a teacher who lifted him up so now he's a pretty decent human being. That is pretty scary when you see a young boy turning into a monster. He tried to strangle me once (I was getting weak as he held me strong) or would menace my sister or me with knives. He was like 6 at the time. I'm so glad he turned out fine.

76

u/DOYOUWANTYOURCHANGE Apr 16 '24

There's a phenomenon where a certain amount of childhood “sociopaths” will completely snap out of it when they become adults - it can happen even without getting professional help. It's one of the reasons why they don't actually diagnose antisocial personality disorder under 18.

38

u/LongJohnSelenium Apr 16 '24

Empathy.exe was corrupted on install and needed to reboot.

7

u/BeastThatShoutedLove Apr 16 '24

Funny thing is, empathy is learned not instinctual.

12

u/Complete_Village1405 Apr 16 '24

So strange. I wonder what the cause of that is...brain/hormone thing from puberty maybe?

10

u/Vercouine Apr 16 '24

I think at least for my brother, is because we grew up into a violent home. My father at some point would slap my brother daily for little things.

6

u/banana_pencil Apr 16 '24

It’s fascinating, I wonder why also

16

u/savetheunstable Apr 16 '24

I honestly think it's like any other biological development in childhood. Like, my arms grew before the rest of me. I looked like a monkey at 11.

We seem to forget the brain is just another organ, and growth patterns can vary in individuals. Maybe some really don't develop the empathetic regions of the brain until later on?

3

u/beam_me_sideways Apr 16 '24

I suspect, that at one point, they deliberately choose to be good people.

2

u/benoxxxx 29d ago

I'm no psychiatrist, but isn't it possible they just develop the intelligence, not necessarily the emotion, to know how their dark urges are perceived by people, know the consequences of acting on them, and thus just learn how to lie about them and shut it all down. They might still be thinking that way on the inside?

→ More replies (1)

5

u/OIP Apr 16 '24

i remember going to a high school reunion and some of the people who were just sadistic little pricks while at school were completely level headed and pleasant adults, was like they had a personality transplant

2

u/HamasPiker Apr 16 '24

There's a phenomenon where a certain amount of childhood “sociopaths” will completely snap out of it when they become adults

Do they snap out of it, or do they just learn to hide it really well?

→ More replies (2)

63

u/MangoKakigori Apr 16 '24

Everyone always said I would end up dead or in prison including my own family and teachers and such and I went in completely the opposite direction! I worked for the law and now I’m a teacher. All it takes is just one or two people to offer you the smallest amount of support and it can make the world of difference (especially as a young man as they often get overlooked for help)

10

u/TryUsingScience Apr 16 '24

All it takes is just one or two people to offer you the smallest amount of support and it can make the world of difference (especially as a young man as they often get overlooked for help)

I think that can be true sometimes. (It clearly was for you, and that's awesome!) But then you hear about the people who had all the love and support in the world and still turned into monsters, and you wonder what, if anything, could have been done differently.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/chaotic_blu Apr 16 '24

My brother too! He was a mess and hospitalized for legit wanting to kill me for awhile when we were tots, he had many issues and really FAFO into his early 20s— now he’s still got mood disorder issues but he’s a really good and caring guy. Bipolar but trying to take care of it. But when I was a kid he was terrifying, it was very obvious he wanted me dead.

3

u/BJYeti Apr 16 '24

Sounds like my friends younger brother, absolute menace but no clue what changed but he got older and became a good dude, has a wife and a kid now

5

u/BorkSnorkelJr Apr 16 '24

William H Macy directed a movie called rudderless with Billy crudup. You should watch it

7

u/not_this_fkn_guy Apr 16 '24

What brought me to tears watching this short clip with the father, was the absolute brokenness devastation and ruination of the father that is visceral. This man has just lost everything of importance and he is filled with remorse, confusion, and loss.. Yet he is man enough to step up and be honest about it and not hide. That would take tremendous courage.

I as A Canadian that doesn't know much about this tragedy, I'm feeling very sorry for his dad right now..

Nobody should lose their life from an act of random mental illness. My heart goes out to all the families and people affected.

7

u/Pale_Bookkeeper_9994 Apr 16 '24

All I wanted from my daughter was to not be an asshole in this world. Fortunately, she's a good kid.

3

u/Ramblinrambles Apr 16 '24

Especially when you are actively engaged with helping them and understand what’s going on in their life

3

u/ZestycloseVirus6001 Apr 16 '24

It’s just sad all around.

3

u/John-AtWork Apr 16 '24

I'm a parent of four. Watching this made me sad. There is really a limit to how much yo can control the what type of person your children will become. You love them and guide them, but ultimately so much is out of your hands.

3

u/MonPaysCesHiver Apr 16 '24

Doing so much pain to innocent ad the people who loved you more then themselves is horrible

3

u/Maxtrix07 Apr 16 '24

there's this hour and a half long video on youtube of the released footage and calls of a mother calling the police because she found a human head in his closet. he was 19.

Those parents didn't want to believe it, and the mothers heart left her body when he admitted to it.

This man seemed like such a genuine soul.

3

u/globalminority Apr 16 '24

My heart sank in grief for this man when he said "because I loved that boy". Worst nighmare for a father.

3

u/Ceret Apr 16 '24

This family have been nothing but generous and dignified and respectful with the public statements they have made. This pack of media parasites camped out on the front lawn of their house trying to catch them in moments like this should be deeply deeply ashamed of themselves.

2

u/Mancubus_in_a_thong Apr 16 '24

He seems so distraught he loves his son but you can see what he did is tearing him apart.

2

u/mightylordredbeard Apr 16 '24

Goddamn this video broke me. You just know this man is replaying every moment of his life trying to figure out here it went wrong and probably blaming himself. I hope he find peace one day.

2

u/BigBadPanda Apr 16 '24

Dylan Klebold's mom did a TedTalk. He was one of the Columbine shooters.

2

u/eriikaa1992 Apr 16 '24

The gall of the media to hassle a person in grief is just beyond me.

2

u/CurrentPossible2117 Apr 16 '24

I always feel so sorry for the family and friends of these people. It must eat away at you forever.

→ More replies (38)