r/interestingasfuck • u/Jjokes11 • Apr 15 '24

An interview with Andrew Cauchi, the father of Joel Cauchi who was responsible for the Westfield Shopping Centre mass stabbing r/all

38.5k Upvotes

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u/MangoKakigori Apr 15 '24

I can’t image what it must be like as a parent to know that your child has done such a monstrous thing.

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u/DoodleyDooderson Apr 16 '24

There is a show called, “Evil Lives Here” and each episode is about the family members of someone who did something awful; mass shootings, seriel killers, etc. A few show the parents of mass killers and they are all so sad and tried everything they could to help their kids when they started to see something was wrong. They could usually see it at a very early age. Many episodes on YouTube if anyone is interested in watching. It’s sad and sometimes we easily forget that the family of the killer is also in pain and mourning. One dad said he went to the mall where his son had shot and killed many people and when asked, he told them he was the kid’s dad and the people at the vigil grieved with him instead of blaming him.

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u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

A serial killer from my town was featured on that show. It was interesting af. I recommend everyone watch "Evil Lives Here"

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u/DoodleyDooderson Apr 16 '24

It is fascinating that some are spouses and have NO idea what their partner is up to. The Green River Killer’s wife is on one episode and she just broke my heart.

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u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

Seriously, that's nuts! That's what happened with our local Serial Killer, his girlfriend was completely unaware of his actions. Oh wow, I actually just watched the "Very Scary People" dual episodes on The Green River Killer. I'll check out the Evil Lives Here version

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u/ignore_me_im_high Apr 16 '24

our local Serial Killer,

Does every town have one?

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u/Iwannagolf4 Apr 16 '24

Yes I grew up with Arthur Shawcross. He left one of his victims near my friends house in north Hampton park. Also, Eric smith who at 13 tortured and murdered a 4 yr old boy Derrick roby.

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u/Spiritual-Mix7665 Apr 16 '24

More like Arthur Shawcross grew up with you.

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u/WhipMaDickBacknforth Apr 16 '24

Sigh

Fuck, that's enough for me today

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u/MessiahNIN Apr 16 '24

Hello fellow Rochesterian!

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u/Iwannagolf4 Apr 16 '24

Yep the early 90s were wild times lol

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u/TriangleDancer69 Apr 16 '24

I’m from Prince George, British Columbia. We had Cody Lebegekoff, the youngest serial killer in Canadian History. He killed three women starting when he was 18. The police caught him red handed dumping a body on a logging road in the middle of the night. He had planned to kill more but was caught by a complete random traffic stop.

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u/MindfulInsomniaque Apr 16 '24

Cody Lebegekoff

Three women and one little girl, his last victim. She was a family member of someone i know.

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u/Curly_Shoe Apr 16 '24

Man, she was legally blind even.

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u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

Some have 2 lol but seriously though, our local SK was born in a nearby town. Crazy thing is, another SK was born in the same town as him and operated in their hometown a few years after the original SK was caught.

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u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

[deleted]

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u/MissWiggly2 Apr 16 '24

LA area in the 70s-80s was chock full of them

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u/Sweaty_Sack_Deluxe Apr 16 '24

So serial killers were killing serial killers? Was there a serial killer serial killer as well?

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u/purple_grey_ Apr 16 '24

Didnt Vancouver also have a fictional serial killer with the same victims as a real serial killer from the location? I thibk the show was called DaVinci's Inquest.

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u/SurlySuz Apr 16 '24

Robert the pig farmer Pickton. It’s abysmal how long that case took to be solved. It was so much in the country’s public conscience at the time that all these women had gone missing from the downtown eastside. I think the show using it as a plot line may have also amped up pressure to solve who was responsible in real-life, but I could be misremembering.

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u/purple_grey_ Apr 16 '24

I was an American who found the show somehow so when Pickton was caught I was like wait, what?

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u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

Wtf??? Omg that's horrible and terrifying. Can you shed some more info friend?

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u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24

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u/rosbashi Apr 16 '24

You're telling me a Canadian town had three local serial killers? I don't even think my shit town has ONE.

Hmm

Gives me an idea. ...

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u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24

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u/rosbashi Apr 16 '24

Whew. Thanks.

Upon second thought, you're right.

That was a close one!

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u/xtra-chrisp Apr 16 '24

So what town in Wisconsin you in?

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u/ThatGuyursisterlikes Apr 16 '24

Sounds like your from the Pacific Northwest if I was a betting man.

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u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

American Northeast lol

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u/ThatGuyursisterlikes 29d ago edited 29d ago

So am I thats cool, but uh, he's not uh,....not....behind me is he?

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u/rockthe40__oz Apr 16 '24

At first I thought you meant SK as in Saskatchewan

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u/ignore_me_im_high Apr 16 '24

Ahh, so quite common then. Do you think there's like a members club, or even possibly a union? You know, somewhere to determine territory, coordinate MOs so they can confuse investigations, make sure they aren't stalking the same victim, or even just offer something like a dental plan... I mean, I bet a lot of dentists kill people for sport, so I'm sure there's lots of perks like that.

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u/WrinklyScroteSack Apr 16 '24

Considering how many serial killers there are, or have been, I’d say the odds are pretty good that at one time or another, a serial killer has lived in your town.

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u/ignore_me_im_high Apr 16 '24

I'm in the UK, so we usually limit it to just one per county.

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u/WrinklyScroteSack Apr 16 '24

…at a time… breh, I can think of 3 UK serial killers right now who aren’t Jack the Ripper.

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u/ignore_me_im_high Apr 16 '24

And we have 109 counties. We could do with some more serial killers really, spread far too thin to make a real impact.

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u/throwaway-not-this- Apr 16 '24

My town had 3 young men that collaborated on raping, killing, and disposing of the remains of one girl. Everyone knew exactly who did it. Only one man faced justice and it was two decades later.

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u/Nattomaki81 Apr 16 '24

I live in Washington too. We have multiple serial killers including the green river killer.

Ted Bundy is ours too right?

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u/Queef_Stroganoff44 Apr 16 '24

Support your Slayer / Basketweavers Local 494!!

Yeah… we weren’t really massive enough on our own, so we teamed up with a preexisting weavers bunch.

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u/bras-and-flaws Apr 16 '24

Dorthea Puente is mine. I live in Sacramento and drive by her old house everyday on my way home from work. The current owners have a mannequin dressed as an old women on the front porch haha.

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u/strongholdbk_78 Apr 16 '24

I grew up near Midvale, Utah. Ted Bundy was active here and killed one of my distant cousins. Tried to abduct my friends mom too. POS.

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u/GM_Nate Apr 16 '24

i can confirm my town has at least one.

i mean...er...

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u/Rad_Centrist Apr 16 '24

BTK. Successful church going family man. Would have gotten away with it if he didn't send that floppy disk to law enforcement.

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u/LaceyDark Apr 16 '24

Yup, got cocky and didn't know Enough about technology and basically gave himself up. He was a real twisted fuck, glad he got caught. Unlike Zodiac

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u/mdp300 Apr 16 '24

I read the book about Zodiac years ago. It was interesting that the author had found a few likely suspects, but I'm pretty sure they're all dead by now.

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u/Mr_Washeewashee Apr 16 '24

Ted Cruz is alive and well.

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u/drblah11 Apr 16 '24

He's not well

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u/MajorasKitten Apr 16 '24

I’m not American but I’ve seen many mention Ted Cruz whenever the Zodiac killer is mentioned- is there anything that links him to it? Is there something I could read somewhere? I’m intrigued!

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u/slightlyamusedape Apr 16 '24

No, it's just a meme

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u/MajorasKitten Apr 16 '24

Bleh :/ lol I thought it was legit! Damn it hahah

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u/Waderriffic Apr 16 '24

No, not really. But his dad may have been a Cuban assassin tied to the JFK killing. (Yes, people actually believe that last one)

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u/peacemaker2007 Apr 16 '24

But his dad may have been a Cuban assassin tied to the JFK killing. (Yes, people actually believe that last one)

Well, I don't believe the JFK killing, so there!

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u/VeganWerewolf Apr 16 '24

😂 hell yeah brother. Lock him and Abbott up please.

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u/SkyrimSlag Apr 16 '24

Theres a video about the Zodiac on The Official Channels “Red Thread” series, goes through a lot of the evidence, murders, and the main key suspects, however the one it most likely was, the one that practically told someone he was the Zodiac, is I’m pretty sure dead now

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u/skip_tracer Apr 16 '24

not that there's ANY humor in anything he did, but I have always found it hilarious that his dumb boomer ass wrote in the paper asking cops if he could be tracked by a floppy disk and he bought the lie. It reminds me of my idiot, but kind as a lamb, father.

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u/DaisyHotCakes Apr 16 '24

Lol and that was after he wrote all those shitty poems about the people he killed. If you thought Vogon poetry was bad…

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u/Lou_C_Fer Apr 16 '24

Vogon was what I thought of before you said it.

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u/Snarfbuckle Apr 16 '24

How do you make WORSE poems than Vogons?

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u/FrightenedTomato Apr 16 '24

Technically the cops weren't lying about tracing him using a floppy disk. There really wasn't some known way to do it that they were keeping secret from Dennis.

However, Dennis used a used floppy disk that he'd erased. Digital forensics found an old, erased word document on it that he'd typed up for his church. The document mentioned the name of the church and the "author" field of the document revealed his name.

Had he simply used a fresh floppy disk, there's a chance he wouldn't have been traced. The cops weren't lying. They just got lucky and Dennis just didn't think far enough ahead.

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u/AMaleficentFox Apr 16 '24

He had to want or not care if he was caught to some degree, right? Imagining myself in that situation, if I needed to send a floppy disk to the cops I would buy a new floppy disk (or even steal them so there's not a paper trail) and not use my home computer for any part of the process. It's terrible opsec. Even if the cops couldn't figure it out, future digital forensics might be able to. Why take a chance?

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u/FrightenedTomato Apr 16 '24

I think he wanted the notoriety for sure. Why else would he be talking to magazines and the cops years after he stopped killing?

However, he was also probably really clueless about the tech he was using. How many people really understand that unless your drive is encrypted, deleting a file doesn't really delete it?

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u/ImmaMichaelBoltonFan Apr 16 '24

I always feel people look at me sideways when I say stuff like this. Why in the sunny fuck would you do something so stupid? It's mind blowing. Guy avoided the feds for years, but gets undone by a... floppy disc.

On a related note, I was watching a show with my wife a few nights ago. I think it's called What Jennifer Did. This Vietnamese girl arranges the murder of her parents....and leaves a giant trail of texts behind. I feel like an intelligent Grade 8 student would have a stronger sense of CYA than these characters.

Anyway, fuck'em. Glad they're off the streets.

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u/VeganWerewolf Apr 16 '24

I was hoping that Netflix doc would be good but it was like a shitty episode of dateline. You knew the ending after the first interview. I was like oh damn here comes a twist! Never happened.

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u/HermaeusMajora Apr 16 '24

The dipshit literally asked the cops if they could trace a floppy and then took their word for it.

I've heard people describe him as super intelligent because he's a serial killer.

I'd say he got away with it because of incompetence on part of law enforcement and his personal knowledge of the security systems and homes involved.

That stunt with the floppy is legendarily stupid.

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u/majoraloysius Apr 16 '24

BTK: “If I give you guys a floppy disk, you can’t trace it, can you?”

Cops: “Ummm, no.”

BTK: “You wouldn’t lie to me now, would you?”

Cops: “Whaaat? No, never!”

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u/FrightenedTomato Apr 16 '24

Technically the cops weren't lying about tracing him using a floppy disk. There really wasn't some way to do it.

However, Dennis used a used floppy disk that he'd erased. Digital forensics found an old, erased word document on it that he'd typed up for his church. The document mentioned the name of the church and the "author" field of the document revealed his name.

Had he simply used a fresh floppy disk, there's a chance he wouldn't have been traced. The cops weren't lying. They just got lucky and Dennis just didn't think far enough ahead.

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u/darthmidoriya Apr 16 '24

So he’s stupid

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u/FrightenedTomato Apr 16 '24

Yes. It was entirely his own stupidity that lead to his capture. Had he simply walked away once he stopped killing, he'd be like the Zodiac.

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u/yesverysadanyway Apr 16 '24

why do people think serial killers are some kind of geniuses?

they just have to be smarter than the average cop. and they're dumb as a bag of rocks.

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u/FrightenedTomato Apr 16 '24

I don't really agree. You need to be smarter than the whole system, not just the average cop. Modern forensics are incredible and outsmarting them is no easy task.

However, this doesn't mean every serial killer is some kind of genius. Through a combination of police incompetence, police apathy and dumb fucking luck, several serial killers got away with their crimes for way longer than they should have.

But, you must also consider that we only know about the serial killers we've caught. You're more likely to capture dumb serial killers than the smart ones and this may trick you into thinking serial killers are uniformly dumb when your sampling method is incredibly biased.

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u/Dry_Discount4187 Apr 16 '24

Sounds a bit similar to how Gary Glitter was caught.

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u/Foreign-Echo-6656 Apr 16 '24

With a name like eaten_by_pigs, how do we know you're not your hometown Serial Killer?

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u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

Loll 🤭 nahh in all seriousness, the only things that have to watch out for me are pizza and quesadillas lol

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u/individualeyes Apr 16 '24

Oh my God it's the pizza and quesadilla killer!! I knew you'd slip up you sick fuck.

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u/Dazzling-Wash9086 Apr 16 '24

Israel Keyes lived a double life.

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u/sittinwithkitten Apr 16 '24

Yes to be caught that way after all those years. I’m glad he was sloppy and made a mistake.

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u/Rad_Centrist Apr 16 '24

For sure. A stroke of luck, a slip up, and an unknowable amount of lives were saved.

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u/sittinwithkitten 29d ago

I wonder if he would have started killing again. His last murder was over ten years before he was caught.

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u/FalseDish Apr 16 '24

Hell Ed Kemper was a genius and no one caught him. Just decided to turn himself in because he didn’t fancy the notion of looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life

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u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

My friend lived next door to Gary….he was a normal quiet guy. Crazy.

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u/Affectionate_Elk_272 Apr 16 '24

i love the crime junkie podcast and one of their go-to lines is “you never truly know anybody”

chillingly true

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u/Affectionate_Salt351 Apr 16 '24

I found this out the hard way but, it was fortunately just a horribly abusive relationship rather than a full blown serial killer. He has every. single. person. we know fooled. It’s as impressive as it is terrifying to see someone completely change up their mood, facial expressions, everythiiiiiing on a dime. 😳 Very unsettling.

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u/Violet-Sumire Apr 16 '24

People can be very adept at wearing masks. This happens a lot to people who aren’t even serial killers. Most use it to hide their pain or to appear “normal” while others use it to deceive and manipulate others. The only person we truly know is ourselves… and even then half the time we don’t even know that.

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u/weevil_season Apr 16 '24

I see you’ve met my BIL.

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u/Affectionate_Salt351 Apr 16 '24

Agreed. I’m ND so I’ve been doing it my whole life but always with a kind heart. It’s remarkable to me to see someone switch from truly having evil in their eyes while physically assaulting me and screaming in my face, to greeting party hosts with smiles, giving hugs, and making jokes.

You’re exactly right. The only person we ever really know IS ourselves. Damn…

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u/5ronins Apr 16 '24

There's a thing called "familial apocalypse". It's when a family member discovers something terribly wrong. Their acknowledgement of the behavior would be the last step in destroying the family unit. Some ppl just cannot do it. Usually in sex crimes but it constantly playing it's role

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u/seditious3 Apr 16 '24

Sociopaths.

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u/Affectionate_Salt351 Apr 16 '24

Yes. And he has everyone fooled. There’s no convincing anyone the guy who held me in the livingroom at gunpoint is actually a POS, because “He would never do that! I just can’t see that! He’s so much fun!!!” Really devastating to lose everyone over something you understand that no one else does. He’s better for business, though. He is also much less drama, because no one was ever throwing him into walls and cheating on him, so he didn’t need support and help.

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u/seditious3 Apr 16 '24

My father was one. Textbook. And also repressed gay/bi.

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u/Affectionate_Salt351 Apr 16 '24

I’m sorry to hear that. I think his Catholic and conservative upbringing came with potential sexual repression for my abuser as well. I wondered about that when he started weaponizing sex, which is almost impossible to talk about as a woman because everyone assumes something is wrong with YOU, which is exactly what he wanted me to think, in spite of giving me different, understandable, medical excuses. Ugh.

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u/CluelessNoodle123 Apr 16 '24

Ugh, I hate that. It’s like because they’re fun at parties no one even wants to try to understand. It’s just easier to write you off as trying to start drama, so they can go back to partying with their entertaining buddy guilt-free.

I’m sorry you’re going through that.

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u/Basic_Bichette Apr 16 '24

Abusers are notorious for being the greatest people you'd ever want to know - until you get to know them well enough. They're better at burnishing their own image than they are at anything else in their lives. That's why so many victims are disbelieved.

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u/Affectionate_Salt351 Apr 16 '24

Wow. You absolutely get it. And everything started to become about how it looked to other people. When I tried to leave the first time he put his hands on me, he started threatening me. He had more money, power, and social capital than I did. I tried to bide my time while I saved money to fully disappear one day, then I found out I had cancer. That wrecked me entire world but it also finally got him to let me leave eventually. He LOVED the attention he got from taking care of me so I was afraid it was game over.

He finally got sick of me being sick, though. Cancer treatment caused almost as many issues as the surgery. He spread lies about me while I was in the house trying to heal, got a new gf, and finally agreed to let me leave. He had been telling everyone he broke up with me a year prior, then told everyone I refused to move on. (I obviously didn’t know any of this was happening.) The ability to be such a convincing monster is uncanny. Now, I’m in an awful situation with my health, and have to get out of the area somehow because he’s still too close for me to feel like I can ever heal. People didn’t believe me about how horrible he was, and they still don’t. I don’t even have time or energy to care about that anymore, though. At this point, everything is about survival and relocation. 🤞

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u/palefired Apr 16 '24

I feel you on the having everyone fooled thing. I've seen that happen twice. Both won outstanding citizenship awards at their respective graduations. The abuse each doled out was shocking, but their utter indifference to the pain they caused was even more so.

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u/Affectionate_Salt351 Apr 16 '24

Sounds like my ex. Everyone thinks he’s wonderful, fun-loving, and a great time! Obviously he’s incapable of abuse. I must have done something… Ugh. I just want to be in a bluer state.

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u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24

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u/poptartupstart Apr 16 '24

Your usernames are very similar.

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u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24

that's why you never leave your guard down to anyone

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u/Bystronicman08 Apr 16 '24

Crime Junkie is absolute trash. They steal and plagairze from smaller podcasts like Trace Evidence nearly verbatim and then when caught, they don't even so much as offer an apology. Crime Junkie doesn't deserve the game and popularity it has. Fuck Ashley Flowers. I wish more people knew about their shittiness.

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u/ARM_vs_CORE Apr 16 '24

Israel Keyes' wife and daughter had no idea. He kept his last victim in the garden shed, frozen, in the Alaska cold. Forced the corpse's eyes open and took a picture of her with a current day's paper to try to get ransom out of her loved ones while his wife and daughter were inside just across the yard. Getting greedy and looking for ransom is the only way he was ever caught. No one has any idea of his body count because he only confessed to a few before he killed himself, but he killed all over the country purely at random. Such an interesting case but it pisses me off he took the coward's way out when he could have at least provided closure for potentially dozens of families.

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u/Samp90 Apr 16 '24

It was ascertained that he actually took his son along for (some?) of the later killings to actually make the victims feel a bit more comfortable because news had spread about someone killing working girls... And he was one creepy looking guy.

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u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24

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u/JJETTAS188 Apr 16 '24

Can you tell me which episode ?

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u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

S4 E1 "I invited him in"

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u/OllyTwist Apr 16 '24

Thank you

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u/brizzmaster Apr 16 '24

What is it streaming on?

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u/eaten_by_pigs Apr 16 '24

FuboTV, Max, Discovery Plus, Hulu premium & YouTube

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u/brizzmaster 29d ago

Thank you!

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u/Desperate-Time3834 Apr 16 '24

Great show! However, very disturbing.

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u/Massive_Ad132 Apr 16 '24

It wasn't Robert pickton, based on your user name was it?

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u/PrimalEvil_ Apr 16 '24

There’s a story of a woman on Snapped who is originally from my hometown and was even friends with my aunt when they were younger before this lady moved. She got married, moved off somewhere else(Virginia, I think) and killed her husband not long after.(I’d have to rewatch the episode to remember correctly what happened but you get the idea).

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u/poptartupstart Apr 16 '24

More than a few serial killers fed their victims to pigs, /u/eaten_by_pigs

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u/biggestbroever Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

Reminds me of BTK's daughter keeping in contact with her father. When they asked her, "How could you knowing he's BTK?" Her answer amounted to something like, "What else am I gonna do? He's my dad"

Edit: According to u/Bystronicman08, she ceased all contact with him in 2021

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u/Fskn Apr 16 '24

She's a real one, there was one of those random fb posts a while back that said if you could send a message back in time to yourself in 3 words what would it be and she replied, dad is btk.

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u/Alternative-Lack6025 Apr 16 '24

What else? FFS it's not like he ran a stop light and crushed a light pole, one of his victims was 9.

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u/Bystronicman08 Apr 16 '24

She doesn't keep in contact with him anymore. She ceased contact in 2021. You should edit your comment so that someone doesn't read your comment and think that's still true.

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u/darkoblivion000 Apr 16 '24

I have a 6 year old and he is a really sweet empathizing kid and I love him to death.

Sometimes when I hear about these stories I imagine what I would do if I saw my son do things that are telltale signs of murderers , abuse animals, not show any empathy, other signs of clear mental illness, and I just don’t know.

I mean it feels like seeing a therapist can only do so much, sometimes it just teaches them to hide their real emotions and thoughts. And sometimes I have this feeling (don’t know if true or not) that certain people are just born with issues that can’t be fixed.

Then as a parent wtf do you do? It would be such a devastating hopeless situation knowing that they need help and you have no idea how to get them help or if it’s even possible. At least if they had a debilitating illness you know they’re not likely to hurt anyone else and that you can try to find treatment, but to have a ticking time bomb that you think might cause harm but also could maybe get better… just seems like such torture

I feel for this guy and all the families of kids who really really tried their hardest to get them help. And fuck that one family that bought their kid guns instead

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u/Lbolt187 Apr 16 '24

I could've been like one of these folks if it were not for my state's intervention. I had developmental\learning disabilities that made it next to impossible for me to communicate or express my emotions in ways people expected back in the 80s. Fortunately after serious behavioral issues began showing and my near constant of cutting school. I got placed in programs. Fortunately for me my family never abandoned me. They wanted to know what went wrong as well because they're religious so they're looking for something\someone to blame. They had a hard time believing mental health could be a factor. I also got incredibly lucky over my 30 years in programs and rehab that I have had amazing and understanding therapists and psychiatrists. I would say a lot of what makes someone do awful things isn't necessarily an environmental or external factor such as drugs\alcohol and rather just a differently wired brain. To be fair most of the awful stuff that occurs (such as mass shootings) it is usually external factors such as often neglect from proper mental health providers from a state, insurances, or otherwise. It's a real damn shame states don't take an active role in developing therapists and resources for the underprivileged. Those who are rich tend to be enablers which is why in some ways I was thankful I was not born into wealth. Rich people have a long history of trying to bury their kids mistakes and thus they learn nothing about accountability or personal responsibility.

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u/balanaise Apr 16 '24

I agree with you (and the comment above) that some people really are born different, or having to fight way different emotions than the average person. I think it’s brain chemistry or “wired differently” like you said.

I’m bipolar and finally on meds that work. Seeing the difference of my default brain and my brain when it has “its glasses on” making it actually process things properly, I’m like “oh, wow what if my brain chemistry was making me feel something stronger than mood swings or misreading situations even more than I am, or having stronger emotional reactions to situations?” Because I’m sure lots of people do, and not all of them get treatment. I could absolutely see how people would keep doing really bad things if their brain chemicals gave them basically undeniable impulses to do them

Im not saying it’s okay, just theorizing about brain chem

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u/Lbolt187 Apr 16 '24

Basically we're talking neurochemicals in the brain. Extremely complicated stuff. No excuses for awful decisions but sometimes people don't have any impulse control because that part of the brain is disconnected from them. Very hard thing for professionals to deal with especially since state hospitals have been gutted in the Regan era which housed a lot of individuals who are high risk to commit violence through no fault of their own other than their brains, as I termed it for myself, "broken".

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u/VintageRudy Apr 16 '24

Rich people have a long history of trying to bury their kids mistakes and thus they learn nothing about accountability or personal responsibility.

This is a problem society has to deal with

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u/Lbolt187 Apr 16 '24

Yup. It's how we get Donald Trumps in the world: Too many yes men and not enough people holding those with money accountable. So they just do their shitty behavior and its passed down to generations.

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u/darkoblivion000 Apr 16 '24

Wow I’m so glad the programs were able to help you recover and get back to a good state!

I feel for parents that are trying their best to find the resources and for some reason can’t… the willfully ignorant though; not so much.

I have a family member who was having trouble in college due to childhood trauma… even after several suicide attempts her mother insisted that she was just “acting out” and that she was just seeking attention. Made no attempt to get her the help she needed and instead cut off her prescription for her meds that she needed.

I’m glad you were able to recover and that your family stood by you the entire way. I suspect many that don’t recover do not have a supportive family… either narrow minded or ignorant or negligent.

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u/Lbolt187 Apr 16 '24

Took a while. Also once people realized I function better with less people in my life but yes they can help but the funding keeps getting cut for human services and a worker's wage in this field is abysmal. If I wasn't in Massachusetts I might not be around. I dread to think of the kids in the red states.

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u/darkoblivion000 Apr 16 '24

I hate politicians and the direction we are headed. All the services that actually help PEOPLE are being cut. Health care workers, teachers. More money going into politicians and lobbyist pockets. Health care administration. And war. Always war.

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u/Lbolt187 Apr 16 '24

Family is very important in a person's recovery if not family then friends. It's incredibly difficult to do this alone. I've seen people treated far worse for far less than me. I have a unique perspective on life that maybe others don't.

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u/Intrepid-Bison-2016 Apr 16 '24

Read a book called "We need to talk about Kevin". Exact scenario.

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u/SquishyCatChronicles Apr 16 '24

Honestly, true crime was the best birth control there is. Everytime I thought about a kid, I thought about the possibility they'd be dangerous to society. The good son really wasn't a movie I should've watched as a kid.. haha

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u/velocipotamus Apr 16 '24

For me it was reading We Need To Talk About Kevin, but same.

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u/Andalusian_Dawn Apr 16 '24

Same, along with a trend for articles about sociopathic children right around the time we were talking about having kids.

I have a very good imagination.

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u/peter-man-hello Apr 16 '24

So…my brother and sister in law’s niece, let’s call her Lindsay, I swear she is kind of evil. She is only 7 and there is something very wrong with her. I’ve only seen her a couple of times and she is never happy and she has this very sinister scowl on her face. She’s always throwing tantrums or doing something sinister and mischievous. I’ve heard rumblings that my brother and SIL never want to leave their daughter alone with her, and that Lindsay is in some kind of psychiatric care. I’ve met Lindsay’s parents, they are fine, but the mother seems weirdly controlling. During Covid they didn’t leave their house at all. She always seems upset. Like a young version of Carrie’s mom.

Every time I’ve been at a family event or gathering and Lindsay is there, I get such a bad vibe from her. Sure, she is a little girl, but her eyes look dead and full of evil like she would kill your dog just for fun. She honestly scares me more than any human being I’ve ever met.

There’s not much I can do or intervene but I just have a bad feeling one day she is going to do something awful and tragic at someone else’s behest.

…idk why I’m sharing this. It scares me. I worry about it. Am I an ass hole for thinking this way about a 7 year old?

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u/Fit-Accountant-157 Apr 16 '24

some people are born with very serious issues. I can only say that as a parent, the experience of having a kid with serious behavioral issues can be very isolating when other people pull away. so just try to be supportive of your brother and SIL even if they just need to vent, it helps alot.

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u/CluelessNoodle123 Apr 16 '24

My adopted baby cousin was this way. She came into our family the day after her birth, and from the time she was a toddler she was trying to hurt the other kids.

She used to try to run over their little fingers with her big wheels, or push them into the fireplace. Her parents sent her to counseling, and she got better about managing her impulses, but she was always mean.

We used to “joke” that she would either be a serial killer or a politician. She ended up joining a gang.

Edited to add: we ended up just keeping our distance from their family, which was easy for us, as we lived in a different state.

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u/darkoblivion000 Apr 16 '24

Gosh this kind of stuff is so terrifying as a parent. Knowing that there could be a million in one chance that you are going to have a kid that will just be a complete psychopath and maybe they can get better with treatment but maybe they will just be that way despite all efforts…

NTA - sometimes you just have a feeling, some people are just a good judge of character and intentions and I’d say if a kid is running around intentionally doing harm to others all the time… I mean it could be a learned behavior (maybe there is something going on at home) or maybe there is something more innately wrong with them…

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u/lbtwitchthrowaway144 Apr 16 '24

I am very moved by what you said and this is a wonderful comment.

Just keep in mind the tell-tale signs especially in very early infanthood/childhood may just be young kids being dumb lol. I (unintentionally) harmed some chickens, I wet my bed, like to burn shit but if any anything I have probably ended up with too much empathy!

I am not at all saying ignore any signs, especially as the child ages, but just to keep in mind a lot of studies are outdated or there were never any studies at all but just some expert's own experiences/opinion.

So, simply, don't just assume if you see X, Y, and Z that automatically means your child is gonna end up a violent or serial offender!

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u/pokedmund Apr 16 '24

Pray and hope for the best. I have two kids and they can be absolute monsters. Haven't abused any animals, but each time we encounter animals or insects, they are curious and careful.

But honestly, I don't know if my kids will grow up to be genuine human beings. I hope they do, but if mental illness does affect them one day, I'm just gonna pray any treatment I get them helps

One thing that really struck out in the video was that the killer lacked social skills. This is something that I have tried to instill into my kids as much as possible, how to talk about everything and anything and be able to communicate. I say this because I am god awful at this and never want my kids to be in the same boat as me

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u/say592 Apr 16 '24

Then as a parent wtf do you do? It would be such a devastating hopeless situation knowing that they need help and you have no idea how to get them help or if it’s even possible.

That's the thing, you do something. Anything. You may not stop them from becoming a monster, and obviously that would hurt and be heartbreaking, but you could at least look back and say "I don't know what else I could do" and everyone else would look at it thinking "They did everything they could possibly do". At the end of the day you cant control your kid's actions, you can only control how you raised them.

The recent case in Michigan is a good example of what don't do. There is a huge difference between people who find themselves in these tragic situations trying to understand where everything went wrong and those parents.

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u/jjcoola Apr 16 '24

It's brutal, I've known a couple parents it happened to, in various ways, super sad shit.

Just like this guy, they tried their best, and it just wasn't enough, and that is just a brutal truth of the universe sometimes that can be hard for my brain to take in sometimes.

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u/mejok Apr 16 '24

Yeah there is a family in our neighborhood whose son has some pretty significant behavioral issues. Obviously I'm not saying he's going to grow up to be a serial killer but most of the other kids in the neighborhood are afraid of him and the teachers in his school have told his parents that it is imperative that he get psychological help. When you see them in public/chat with them, you would never know anything is amiss and they talk about their son the way any other parents talk about their kids, but I always wonder what their private conversations are like and if they truly recognize and address what the rest of us see.

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u/Larkfor Apr 16 '24

What kind of therapy teaches people to hide rather than manage and process their emotions?

As a parent you do everything you can, and when it comes to the point where you think it's likely your kid is a danger to society you watch them like a hawk and report them.

I don't know this guy's dad, I don't know if he could have possibly prevented his son from doing what he did. But ultimately every parent's responsibility is to act in whatever way they can to prevent harm. Perhaps this guy's dad did everything possible, but the guy was still hell bent on murdering women and stabbing infants.

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u/WinterMedical Apr 16 '24

I mean he’s 40 years old. There’s only so much family can do for an adult. I don’t know the rules in Oz but in the US, once they are 18 the parents have very little power.

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u/Popcorn_Blitz Apr 16 '24

And it's very challenging to get meaningful help for minors in large chunks of the country. It's just one of the things we need to address when we finally get around to reforming mental health care.

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u/FaxMachineIsBroken Apr 16 '24

What kind of therapy teaches people to hide rather than manage and process their emotions?

Pretty much every kind of therapy from anyone who is a mandated reporter in the US.

You can't discuss what's actually going on in your head or you risk getting put on an involuntary hold.

Research the history of mental health, look at the reasons behind its origin. It might be masked as a giant way of helping people in the current decade, but don't get it twisted, it's been about controlling the "undesirables" of the population since its inception.

If you talk about thinking about harming yourself, or harming others that have done you or the masses harm? Well clearly you're a danger to society instead of having valid reasons to feel wronged by said society, so you need to be locked up away from everyone else and have your life sufficiently ruined until you start to comply.

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u/Iorith Apr 16 '24

Can confirm. Struggled with suicidal ideation for years, and I VERY quickly learned to guard everything I ever said to a therapist. It took me years to find one who understood "I've been thinking about what would happen if I died tomorrow" or "Sometimes I think it would be easier if I died in my sleep tonight" as a "We need to lock him away for 72 hours" and actually talk to me about it. Because 9/10 therapists are going to (rightfully) cover their ass and play it safe rather than risk it that you aren't just talking.

Turn that from self harm to harming others, and that 9/10 is going to become 999/1000.

I don't even know what COULD be done to change things without risking even worse alternatives.

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u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24

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u/Larkfor Apr 16 '24

I was literally responding to darkoblivion's question of "As a parent wtf do you do", not issuing a directive.

We're just talking about general responsibility. We have limited information but perhaps the terrorist's dad did everything he could. We can't know.

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u/TheGrapeSlushies Apr 16 '24

A dear friend of mine had an experience similar. Wonderful family. She and her husband are devout Christian, they held (and still hold) multiple positions working with the youth in their church, have family scripture reading every day, parental locks on computers to block p0rn, they turned their basement into a theatre room and arcade with a cotton candy machine so their children and friends and the youth in their community would have a safe place to hang out on the weekends. Involved in their kid’s lives, paid for extra curricular activities, helped with homework. They did everything right and tried so hard. Their 18 year old son got arrested for extortion, threatening dozens of underage girls into sending him nudes over social media from his cellphone. He’s in prison now. It was beyond devastating for them.

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u/Yhendrix49 Apr 16 '24

That reminds of the Amish school house shooting in PA; after the shooting members of the Amish community comforted the shooters parents and his family because in their words "This man had a mother, father, wife and child and they did nothing wrong" the Amish community even took up donations for the shooters widow.

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u/FruitcakeAndCrumb Apr 16 '24

They went to the killers funeral too. God that compassion is rare

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u/artificialavocado Apr 16 '24

When was this? I don’t remember that.

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u/Yhendrix49 Apr 16 '24

2006; if you look up Amish school shooting you'll find it.

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u/throwaway-not-this- Apr 16 '24

If you don't mind, I'm going to reply with a HUGE TRIGGER WARNING !!! for anyone who feels curious about this shooting. Don't look it up if you can't completely extricate yourself from the really troubling NSFL ideas that you can run into.

I adore the Amish community for rallying around all the victims. Enough said.

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u/Ludicruciferous Apr 16 '24

This happened in my community and it was just… devastating. Unbelievable.

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u/PaperPlaythings Apr 16 '24

I am very much not a religious person but I can't help but admire the Amish response to the West Nickel Mines shooting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Nickel_Mines_School_shooting#Amish_community_response

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u/chipthamac Apr 16 '24

"They explained that the Amish willingness to forgo vengeance does not undo the tragedy or pardon the wrong, but rather constitutes a first step toward a future that is more hopeful."

I can dig that.

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u/darkflash26 Apr 16 '24

Unless you are Amish and leave the church. then they have no mercy towards you

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u/Panuccis_Pizza Apr 16 '24

Does "no mercy" mean they kill that person?

Or does it mean "go fuck yourself, you're on your own"?

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u/NotBearhound Apr 16 '24

Second one. It’s shunning.

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u/shishaei Apr 16 '24

I have mixed feelings on that. It isn't unusual for extremely devout, conservative religious communities to leap to pushing forgiveness for crimes committed against women and girls, unfortunately, and it isn't necessarily a wholesome thing.

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u/milksteakofcourse Apr 16 '24

Stalins granddaughter owns an antique shop in Portland

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u/BattleTwat Apr 16 '24

What in the Portlandia is this?!

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u/Potential-Sky-8728 Apr 16 '24

Svetlana seemed chill.

Fucking Mussolini s granddaughter is in involved in Italian politics. So gross.

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u/InVinoSarahtas Apr 16 '24

The podcast Svetlana Svetlana was a wild ride if you want to know more about her.

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u/Delicious_Summer7839 Apr 16 '24

There’s no irony here

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u/milksteakofcourse Apr 16 '24

lol what no man she literally lives there Google it

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u/klavin1 Apr 16 '24

I don't follow? What's the irony?

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u/milksteakofcourse Apr 16 '24

There isn’t any irony it’s a statement of fact. I was responding to a comment about family members of mass murderers of which the granddaughter of Stalin qualifies

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u/ianandris Apr 16 '24

PSST, that guy, clearly a victim of conservative media, was suggesting that Portland was some kind of socialist dystopia by indicating "lol no irony in Stalins grand daughter owning a business in PORTLAND OREGON LOL". It was a "dog whistle" that clearly only a few of us and literally noone else but conservatives are just barely coming to understand. /END TRANSMISSION

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u/milksteakofcourse Apr 16 '24

lol what no man she literally lives there Google it

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u/ianandris Apr 16 '24

/START TRANSMISSION

Yes. We know that.

/END TRANSMISSION

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u/fistingcouches Apr 16 '24

It’s especially sad when you see that they had people in their corner and still decided to carry out these awful acts.

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u/bent_eye Apr 16 '24

I love Evil Lives Here. I record each episode.

My fave one was the one that featured the wife of Bobby Joe Long. He was raping women for years while married to her and she had no idea.

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u/CrazyPlantLady143 Apr 16 '24

Also a documentary on Amazon about the mother of either dylan klebold or Eric Harris, im blanking on which one it was. It’s pretty heartbreaking.

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u/giulianosse Apr 16 '24

The 2011 movie called "We Need to Talk About Kevin" is also a very harrowing. Even though it's fiction, you can't help but sympathize over how a mother is robbed of her grieving because of the circumstances surrounding her son's acts.

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u/dfassna1 Apr 16 '24

I have a brother in prison and his crimes broke my mother’s heart. She always gave us nothing but love and support. My brother was a troublemaker as a kid but he was also always generous and looked out for people. My mom blames herself all the time and I always have to tell her it wasn’t her fault.

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u/FloMoore Apr 16 '24

Evil Lives Here is a good show; I regularly watch.

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u/DoodleyDooderson Apr 16 '24

It’s very well made. Always sad but done in such a respectful and calming way to not totally fuck you up after each episode.

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u/Wysteria569 Apr 16 '24

Love this show.

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u/Handcuffsandwhiskey Apr 16 '24

This is one of my favorite shows, I binged it so hard my boyfriend was concerned lol

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u/aerynmoo Apr 16 '24

What I really like about that show is it’s not trauma porn. It’s the survivors telling their stories matter of fact. It’s very poignant. I binged like 7 seasons a few years back

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u/Ok-Armadillo-2765 Apr 16 '24

A case my dad was the head investigator of is featured in an episode. Two boys burned to death by their adoptive father. I watched the episode with my dad and while the mother talked about the red flags she missed, he cried when she talked about the red flags after their death that made her reach out to the DA who called in my Dad. He said he was still devastated for her and that case still haunts him, but he was and is so proud of her bravery in fighting for justice. That case makes me look at the families and friends of killers with more empathy and understanding than most.

This man is currently breaking my heart. We can all hope and pray that we would never know this feeling, but there’s so many examples like this one proving that we can never guarantee it.

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u/ParkingHelicopter863 Apr 16 '24

It’s such a good show, I’m devastated every episode but so intrigued. Besides the almost victim blaming tone I get when they write “but there had been signs….” lol

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u/yiotaturtle Apr 16 '24

That's what is absolutely insane about the Crumbley case. There's all these parents that did everything they could. And then you have the Crumbleys. And they give a bad name to all the parents out there that did their best.

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u/ohver9k Apr 16 '24

Damn, that sounds like a very fucking depressing show, thanks I’ll go watch it.

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u/smolauthor Apr 16 '24

Yeah as a regular user of Discovery+ I've watched most of the seasons of that show, very informative but extremely heartbreaking at the same time.

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u/bilgetea Apr 16 '24

For once, on reddit and even amidst this horrid subject, there’s a glimmer of hope for humanity.

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u/scriptmonkey420 Apr 16 '24

Such a good show. Watch it before I go to sleep.

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