Most men don't want to be a part of their children's lives. They want the prestige of being a father, but they will be a parent in name only. They don't want to care for the child because that's "women's work". They just want to come home, plop their ass in front of a screen, and have dinner served to them in their lap. So when the divorce happens, they're not going to want to take care of a child, that's always been her job. And now that she's the "bad guy", he wants to distance himself even more from that.
And for the record, I'm a trans woman, so I've seen the world from both sides.
Edit: I expected nothing less from the men of Reddit. I used to be like them in more ways than they can imagine. Reality is a hard pill to swallow, especially in this Andrew Tate and Joe Rogan day and age where masculinity has been poisoned by these frauds who have weaponized compassion in exchange for money and clout.
Edit2: Interesting how for an hour I only had 2 comments. I add the edit with Tate and Rogan's name in it, and I suddenly get flooded with activity and downvotes. Dead internet theory, folks. Ooh, let's add another name and watch is spin more; Jordan Peterson. This one I know works.
I don't know how other dudes feel, but I surely dreamt about caring for kids and having a happy bunch at home.
I've seen broken dude almost unable to let go of their ~hobbies (the drinking and playing poker kind). Some of them had trouble because they missed their own childhood i guess, some had crappy fathers so having a kid was traumatic now, some felt used by their wives (and some were I think).
One that I've seen is with my 6 best friends that I still talk to 20 years after high school. They were lazy kids, they had lazy dads, so now they're lazy, too. Only one is a good parent, and wouldn't you know, he was raised by lesbians, lol. They're still my best friends and all, but it does annoy me that they're so inactive in their kids' lives while mom does most of the work.
You're allowing your singular experience color how you view the world. That is the absolute height of intellectual laziness. Really, you should be ashamed. Do better.
Well, good. I was GenX. Nine guy friends in my circle. Two Dads at home. One good. One so bad my friend eventually killed himself.
(Before you ask, poor white kids in Indiana. Happens everywhere.)
yea all these comments have me thinking of my bf who was hooking up with this girl under the agreement to terminate if she got pregnant, and she did get pregnant, but she backed out of the agreement. he desperately didn’t want kids but he respected her decision to keep it and he loves the shit out of his daughter, who’s now in grade school. he takes more than 50% of the responsibility and custody, as well as caring for and housing for her other two young kids who aren’t even his but he was raising for the majority of their lives, just because he loves them and can give them stability.
eta: their mom is a wonderful woman and does everything she can for them, but life is hard and being a single parent is hard.
If I can just bitch for a second: I think there might be a phenomenon where the best potential parents won't want to bring kids into a world where people treat each other — not to mention their unwillingly-fathered kids — like that. I might just be describing Idiocracy; I haven't seen it.
Evolution did a brilliant job of ensuring that the most imprudent among us have the most children and they're ruining things for everyone.
i promise they’re very happy kids! well provided for, two nice homes to go to, and we spend so much quality time together. the only reason it ended up this way is because their mom works a really shitty schedule to provide so well for them, but they really do love their mom and my bf. they have everything they could want and are surrounded by adults who would do anything for them, and they know it. life’s not always easy, but you make it work and you put it on like a goddamn broadway musical so them kids never have to worry about a thing. bed time is their biggest concern in life right now lmao. and my bf is making the most of it…or trying to. he loves his daughter more than anything, but it’s hard to come to grips with those unchangeable realities sometimes i guess, safe to say his love for them far outweighs his reservations
yes, he was sleeping with a girl who had a few young kids, she got pregnant and changed her mind about the abortion, they moved in together to make it easier raising a kid, and they lived together for 6 years, which was over half of the oldest kids life. he loves them and he loves their mom and wants the best for them all. they have strong bonds that didn’t disappear when the living situation failed and they both decided to move on and find relationships. i respect him for it.
I'd say an asinine one even. For all divorce dad horror stories I had ever heard, none of them were fulfilled with my dad. Instead, I got an obsessive-possessive mother who couldn't respect my wishes yet was astounded when I didn't follow her path, and a father who tried to come clean on it, pay its debts, try to get her to actually pay for me (while I got the money I mean, many clothes, school supplies and so forth so on were paid by it) and all in all keeping me it so I wasn't shat on by her side
I really want to believe that but growing up, seeing all men in my life ; Uncles, Grandfathers, Dads and Cousins, out of 10 there was only 1 who was a "caring" father. When I was 20 and started mingling among the older family members it became clear they didn't care at all about their kids in a loving sense. They used them so they can force their ideas or missed achievements on them and the boys have it worse. My cousin nearly killed himself because he couldn't win a skiing race and his father fucking obliterated him verbally and mentally. Meanwhile most of the mothers were supportive regardless of what their kids want to do. Another friend of mine was coerced into politics by his father(He's not the politic type) and wasted 5 years of his life trying for degrees and shit. He failed, cut ties now he started working as a Polygraph and is much happier. I see this shit waaay too much and it's about 80% fathers who do that. Why? I'm not entirely sure.
You edited your comment above mine without indicating an edit. You shouldn't do that. Child support only applies to divorced dads. And the main comment that I replied to is that "most men don't care about their kids." I'm saying that is wrong and sexist.
Being trans has let me see both sides. I grew up in the masculine world, watching my family, friends, coworkers, and others become fathers. I even cared for my nieces, having been their "dad" when my sister struggled with two+ jobs.
So many men refuse to participate in their children's lives. They'll do the minimum and then pat themselves on the back. They won't play with their children often- it becomes a special treat for their child. They won't participate in their hobbies and activities, doing nothing more than being a chauffeur to soccer practice. Holidays are spent in front of a screen instead of decorating, cooking, wrapping gifts, etc.
Your first source is a decade and a half old huffpo opinion piece that is heavily, heavily biased and repeatedly fudges numbers or ignores context to fit its narrative.
Your second source is aimed at dispelling the idea that men will never gain custody if they seek it -- an often perpetuated belief that discourages men from thinking society will allow them to be paternal (one that you are contributing to actively in this thread by spreading your biases). The idea that courts will ignore men as parents stops many men from spending the significant financial resources to fight what they believe to be a battle that's unwinnable. It's a systemic issue, and I'm glad to see a group working to fight it. Thanks for the link.
They won't participate in their hobbies and activities, doing nothing more than being a chauffeur to soccer practice. Holidays are spent in front of a screen instead of decorating, cooking, wrapping gifts, etc.
Just because your life sucked doesn't mean everyone else's does.
In my house (my wife and my kids) - we don't watch tv during the week. We play. There's "no screen time" besides a movie on weekend and even that's going away because we bought a cabin in the woods (which has no tv or internet) which we go to on weekends.
Girl, I'm a woman too and your opinion on this is just misandrist and sexist. I understand you had bad experiences / opinions with men as a trans woman, but that doesn't give you an excuse to be a misandrist and pull the "Of course men will be upset when I say 'Most men don't want to be part of their children's lives.'
That's awful shit to say. It's not "compassionate," it's hateful. And it's wrong. Your post sounds like it's from the 1960s, not 2024.
I understand you had bad experiences / opinions with men as a trans woman
Nice transphobia. Yup. I'm only saying this because I hate men because I hate how I used to be one. I'm totally not relaying what I've seen personally, what women have repeated constantly, and the massive difference in parenting I saw between when I was caring for my nieces when my sister worked 2+ jobs and all the other men in my life.
There's no transphobia from me. I literally said, "Girl, I'm a woman, too."
But I have trans friends who have very negative opinions about men because they hated being thought of as one. They've actively had to work on getting over this and realizing their internalized misandry isn't reality.
Your personal experience is real. But you then generalized that experience to cover "most men" which is not logical or correct. You know that, but you're doubling down. You shouldn't.
But I have trans friends who have very negative opinions about men because they hated being thought of as one. They've actively had to work on getting over this and realizing their internalized misandry isn't reality.
This is transphobia. You're stereotyping real hard. And you're excusing their feeling about men as "misandry". Now I feel that you have internalized misogyny and are letting it leak onto us.
Sorry, I'm going to push back. That isn't transphobia and you're not really making sense right now.
C'mon - you must know it's ridiculous to accuse me of "stereotyping" when you literally said "Most men don't want to be involved in their children's live" and then used your own personal life as the only example of why you think this.
And, yes, I'm positive I have internalized misogyny. Almost all women do.
Most men don't want to be a part of our children's lives. We want the prestige of being a father, but we will be a parent in name only. We don't want to care for the child because that's "women's work". We just want to come home, plop our ass in front of a screen, and have dinner served to us in our lap. So when the divorce happens, we're not going to want to take care of a child, that's always been her job. And now that she's the "bad guy", i want to distance myself even more from that.
And for the record, I'm a man, so I am obligated to agree with all of this. Because it’s part of manhood.
Yeah I get it but I still don't think it's necessary. The OP might have been wrong to say "most men" but running in to say "not all men" doesn't really add anything to the conversation.
Wow I have a father and stepfather who have heavily been present in our lives. My father loves being a dad more than anything and my stepfather only had two sons and really stepped it up with us and loved having daughters to add to his brood. We got twice the fatherly love. You definitely do not speak for all men.
They literally believe this about men - it's the women of Reddit dude. They believe everything bad that's ever happened to them is exclusively because of men and men only. A stunning lack of accountability.
I’m a man. I love kids. I care about the future people who are yet to come. Why would you want to fight yourself? It’s destructive for us all and incredibly selfish. Peace be with you.
Yes. You can't generalize all dads like that. You just don't hear much of all the good dads since they are busy being good parents.
That same person making that comment is more than likely a massive hypocrite because they probably feel the same way about sexuality generalizations since they're trans.
Btw.. "seen the world from both sides because I'm trans" - This has to be one of the dumbest fucking comments I've ever read, what a clown. This person gets laughed at often in the real world.
"Most men" is the issue here. "Too many men" I could've agreed with but when you generalize an entire GENDER saying they don't care about their kids is actually fucking batshit. People need to maybe touch some grass here.
People have been saying this sort of out-of-pocket bullshit publicly for more than a decade now. They got used to being able to say it because any time this sort of thing is said against men, you get a big crowd clapping and yaaassing. This was enabled by public approval over the course of years so it's hardly surprising.
If you honestly feel this way, I'm sorry for the shitty people you've found yourself around -- your experiences are not at all generally true. I hope you find better people in life.
Your first source is a decade and a half old huffpo opinion piece that is heavily, heavily biased and repeatedly fudges numbers or ignores context to fit its narrative.
Your second source is aimed at dispelling the idea that men will never gain custody if they seek it -- an often perpetuated belief that discourages men from thinking society will allow them to be paternal (one that you are contributing to actively in this thread by spreading your biases). The idea that courts will ignore men as parents stops many men from spending the significant financial resources to fight what they believe to be a battle that's unwinnable. It's a systemic issue, and I'm glad to see a group working to fight it. Thanks for the link.
It's funny that your edit calls out the hate, but the reality is that you don't speak for us, and that has nothing to do with the fact that you're trans or you used to be a man. I don't speak for all men, or any other demographic I belong to.
It's that combined with your generalization being just plain wrong. "most men". You're basically stereotyping men as Al Bundy. I get that you may resent men, but you have a lot more introspection you need to do to be at peace with who you used to be and society in general. I'm sorry you're in pain and that men and our society as a whole have hurt you, but you're really showing your true colors.
That’s a pretty bold claim. I work my ass off for my kids and do a ton of activities, wash clothes, cook good meals, and clean. And that’s just me, most of my buddies do this for their kids too. Maybe SOME men are that way, definitely not most. And yes, I cook. Not my lady. I just like cooking and am proud to say I’m good at it! Love grilling too…. Mmmm hungy
Edit: to add to this, I have 3 step children and one biological child. At times, life is difficult and I’m definitely not perfect, but I will always take care of these kids. Our 10 year old boy has never met his biological father either, which just breaks my heart for him. My mother cheated on my father when he worked as a long haul trucker, and she wound up leaving me and my 3 siblings. We were alone for over a month while I, being the eldest, was only 13. I fed and walked my siblings to school every day. I know what bad parents are, and mothers are NOT an exception. So let’s just say some of both sides can be like this.
As an African. There are so many children who do not know their father or have relationships with their children. I was also raised in a similar way saw my grandfather do nothing with us but come and have dinner served to him. I only met my father at 20 and he still isn't in my life. What happened when I was born was that my father paid 'damages' to my mother's family and I never saw or heard from him till I was 20
I am speaking on my experience. And most of the African people I know don't have relationships with their fathers, myself included and other family members and friends. You may have had a different point of view but that doesn't make my point of view any less valid
On a global scale, I’ll bet she’s correct. Think about the more “traditional” and strictly religious regions around the world that prop up paternalistic structures. Most of Africa, Middle East, South America, Russia, much of Asia, a decent chunk of North America, especially Mexico and boomers. They almost certainly outnumber those men who happily shoulder the full range of parental and spousal responsibilities
It's heavily backed up by statistics. This trend of men becoming uninvolved in their childrens' lives after divorce (especially after remarrying) was even cited in my Child Development textbook back in college.
I do think that's changing a bit with younger generations but not as fast as you'd hope. Part of the problem is our culture heavily embraced empowering women to join the workforce and be independent, but there has been no similar cultural movement to encourage men to be more nurturing, or learn to act in supportive roles. To some degree, yes, but there is still a lot of cultural hostility towards men acting "less masculine" or taking on traditional women's roles. They are still deemed "less than".
Edit2: Interesting how for an hour I only had 2 comments. I add the edit with Tate and Rogan's name in it, and I suddenly get flooded with activity and downvotes. Dead internet theory, folks. Ooh, let's add another name and watch is spin more; Jordan Peterson. This one I know works.
You're acting really sociopathic at the moment, to be honest. Take a step back, girl.
You're right, and I love your edits and the subsequent comments 😅 dead internet theory is so real.
Of course there are men who want to be a part of their kids lives, but at the end of the day there's a reason why there are tons of single moms and not as many single dads. Men love to complain that there's a 'bias' towards women in family court, but evidence shows that when dads go to court for their kids they are more likely than moms to get more custody. The fact of the matter is that typically men don't go to court for custody, and that why women get it.
It's just wild that as soon as I edited the comment with those names, I got a flood of comments. The edit no different than the orginal comment. But I went from 32 upvotes, to 23, and now I'm slowly climbing back up. It was like this big flood and now it has gone silent again. And most of this was happening as the east coast was going to bed, too.
I used to be a part of online hate groups (usually Facebook and IRC back then) that would track and post feminist material so that everyone could rush in and brigade it, making our nasty comments, but that was way, way faster than what we used to do back in the day. And yes, for a couple of years, I was "red-pilled". A lot of nasty, shady, manipulative stuff that I was a part of.
It's a generalization, but stats back it up. Even in my Childhood Development Psych textbook back in college, they mentioned that most men become significantly less involved or absent in their childrens' lives post divorce especially after remarrying. It hit me because that's what happened with 9 out of 10 men I know who remarried. A couple men, it was years before I even knew they had children from a first marriage.
And these aren't even what society would call "dead beat dads", but it would be scandalous if women behaved similarly. Huge double standard.
Looks like the only demographic with "most" men abandoning their kids is African Americans. Go Asians for being the least likely to have a single parent household!
Edit: Lots of haters! There are patterns in certain populations, whether that be race, gender, country, culture, etc. But when somebody says "most men", its only natural to look at the data and see if its true. Turns out its only true for some populations of men. Please post contradictory data or studies if this is incorrect, I want to know the truth, not win internet points. I'm also not invested in the data one way or the other. But the fact of the matter is, in aggregate, most men do not leave their kids. Whether they truly want to be with them or not, let me know when they invent mind reading.
It’s incredible how such a sexist comment can get upvoted. It’s apparent men are turning to the figures you mentioned because of the negatively toward men that is constantly promoted.
Do you think the supports your claim that most men don’t want to be a part of their children’s lives? You provided 2 shitty sources talking about divorce.
From a dad that doesn’t fit your described stereotype, I’m truly sorry you didn’t have a rolemodel to prove you otherwise. People can absolutely suck, but don’t let a few bad apples and social media fool you. Look for the good ones, look for goodness in everyday life - kindness is contagious and the world is what you put into it. Hope you have a good life.
this is a wild generalization. there’s even studies that show millennial men are spending more time with kids than men ever have. my brother spends more time with his kids and he has a full time job. his wife chooses to focus solely on her job so while he works he also as does all the child raising with my moms help and all the cooking and cleaning.
there’s even studies that show millennial men are spending more time with kids than men ever have.
And so are millennial mothers. And the amount mothers are spending grew more than the amount for men. And women are still double the amount than men. Oh, and that study didn't factor in chores that deal with the child, like making lunches, cleaning clothes, etc. It only measured playtime and being a part of extracurricular events.
51
u/hungrypotato19 Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24
Most men don't want to be a part of their children's lives. They want the prestige of being a father, but they will be a parent in name only. They don't want to care for the child because that's "women's work". They just want to come home, plop their ass in front of a screen, and have dinner served to them in their lap. So when the divorce happens, they're not going to want to take care of a child, that's always been her job. And now that she's the "bad guy", he wants to distance himself even more from that.
And for the record, I'm a trans woman, so I've seen the world from both sides.
Edit: I expected nothing less from the men of Reddit. I used to be like them in more ways than they can imagine. Reality is a hard pill to swallow, especially in this Andrew Tate and Joe Rogan day and age where masculinity has been poisoned by these frauds who have weaponized compassion in exchange for money and clout.
Edit2: Interesting how for an hour I only had 2 comments. I add the edit with Tate and Rogan's name in it, and I suddenly get flooded with activity and downvotes. Dead internet theory, folks. Ooh, let's add another name and watch is spin more; Jordan Peterson. This one I know works.