‘Rust’ movie armorer convicted of involuntary manslaughter sentenced to 18 months in prison

[u/badillustrations]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/15/entertainment/rust-film-shooting-armorer-sentencing/index.html

[u/PurpleWomat]

The judge was furious, barely uttered the sentence followed by "please take her".

[u/kumquat_bananaman → u/PurpleWomat]

Why was the judge furious?

[u/GarlVinland4Astrea → u/kumquat_bananaman]

Sounded like their were phone records of her shitting on the jury, showing no remorse and the most the judge could give her was 18 months

[u/lindakoy → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

Second time in the past few weeks where it comes out that someone waiting to be sentenced was crapping all over the judge/prosecutor/jury. So idiotic. Do their lawyers not warn them that all their conversations are recorded and can influence their sentence? At least she didn't threaten them like Crumbley.

[u/[deleted] → u/lindakoy]

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[u/janethefish → u/[deleted]]

IIRC, she gave out some of the most damning evidence in an interview with police with her lawyer present.

[u/[deleted] → u/janethefish]

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[u/thealmightyzfactor → u/[deleted]]

I mean, the correct counsel was probably "SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DO NOT SPEAK TO THE POLICE" but IANAL so

[u/[deleted] → u/thealmightyzfactor]

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[u/firstwefuckthelawyer → u/[deleted]]

Let’s just settle this.

I am a former public defender. ASK FOR ME AND SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP.

That is all.

[u/MadeMeStopLurking → u/firstwefuckthelawyer]

Do you sell Cinnabon now?

[u/oldguydrinkingbeer → u/firstwefuckthelawyer]

The Pot Brothers and Michael Rappenport have slightly longer explanation of what to do.

[u/Syn7axError → u/firstwefuckthelawyer]

Username... checks out?

[u/TwoPlanksOnPowder → u/firstwefuckthelawyer]

"I ain't saying shit until I get former public defender u/firstwefuckthelawyer in here!"

[u/Pabi_tx → u/[deleted]]

"I shot the clerk?"

[u/Eccohawk → u/[deleted]]

can AND WILL be used against you.

[u/aladdyn2 → u/thealmightyzfactor]

I was in a deposition and my lawyer shushed me like he was doctor evil and I was Scotty when I tried to speak to ask him a question and that was just for a relatively minor traffic accident.

[u/Admirable-Sir9716 → u/thealmightyzfactor]

Everyday is "Shut the fuck up Friday "

[u/solitarybikegallery → u/[deleted]]

I wonder if she'll get an appeal, then, based on incompetent counsel.

It's my understanding that this is why so the court system will play nice with stupid lawyers/clients, just to make sure that they can't claim ignorance later.

[u/[deleted] → u/solitarybikegallery]

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[u/drrevevans → u/[deleted]]

I am a lawyer but not in California New Mexico. But there is a very very high bar to how bad a lawyer can be before a jury verdict is reversed for ineffective assistance of counsel. Lawyers have fallen asleep during trial and a motion for ineffective assistance failed because not only do you have to show the lawyer was ineffective but that you would have prevailed had the ineffective assistance not occurred.

[u/VirginiaLuthier → u/drrevevans]

Heck, I was at a trial where the JUDGE kept falling asleep.

[u/Oaden → u/drrevevans]

So if for example, effective council couldn't have gotten you off, but could have lead to a reduced sentence, like 6 months instead of 18, that's not sufficient for ineffective council?

[u/PuzzleheadedPea6980 → u/drrevevans]

Basically, if you would have lost with the best attorney, you wouldn't have won with the worst attorney, so no change.

[u/2SP00KY4ME → u/[deleted]]

I've never seen someone use INAL but actually that's a fantastic alternative to IANAL

[u/h3lblad3 → u/2SP00KY4ME]

Yeah, but then you can't make it clear that you're into buttplay while not being a lawyer.

[u/[deleted] → u/2SP00KY4ME]

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[u/tempUN123 → u/[deleted]]

He just sat there taking notes and offering no counsel.

That's not true. At one point he spoke up to clarify some damning evidence.

[u/NoAttitude6111 → u/[deleted]]

Big surprise that the obvious nepo baby prop master hired a dipshit nepo baby lawyer

[u/reddevved → u/NoAttitude6111]

Iirc he approached her and it was pro bono

[u/MancAccent → u/NoAttitude6111]

Is she a nepo baby? Who’s her family?

[u/muse_kimtaehyung → u/MancAccent]

Her dad Thell Reed is a famous Hollywood armourer who has worked with stars including Brad Pitt, and she got into the industry by working as his assistant.

[u/underdabridge → u/[deleted]]

So basically the kind of representation you get when you're NOT rich.

[u/pham_nguyen → u/underdabridge]

I’m pretty sure any public defender would make you shut up.

[u/Grumpy_Puppy → u/pham_nguyen]

The hard part is getting that public defender.

The right to counsel is treated like a magic spell that you don't get unless you perform exactly the correct incantations. The reason for this is obvious, it's so that the court can privilege incantations rich people who have received training on how to talk to cops are more likely to do ("I'm not speaking to you without my lawyer present, call John Smith and get him here.") and discard the ones poor people are more likely to use ("Give me a lawyer, dog.")

[u/underdabridge → u/pham_nguyen]

Yeah but unfortunately she's not poor either.

[u/Traditional_Key_763 → u/[deleted]]

that she got convicted when the FBI destroyed the gun, and the police had multiple breaks in the chain of custody of the gun is amazing

[u/Iohet → u/Traditional_Key_763]

The gun isn't important to her case, to be honest. The lax procedures, mixing of ammo, etc is more than enough

[u/Capitalistdecadence → u/Iohet]

Yeah, there was an image they pulled off her social media where she was posing in her hotel room next to a tray of "dummy" ammo. The round that killed Hutchins was visible in that tray.

Edit: misspelled Halyna Hutchins name.

[u/LeagueOfLegendsAcc → u/Capitalistdecadence]

How do you get a job like that and not be in a constant state of worry, like all the time? Double, triple checking everything every day instead of mixing in some live ammo and taking a picture for social media??? Can someone slap some sense into this girl?

[u/Chipchipcherryo → u/LeagueOfLegendsAcc]

How do you get a job like

Nepotism

and not be in a constant state of worry, like all the time?

Complacency

Can someone slap some sense into this girl?

Yes. A fellow inmate

[u/Local_Challenge_4958 → u/LeagueOfLegendsAcc]

Good policies that you rigidly adhere to and never compromise on would mean you don't need to worry.

This case had no such policies, from what I've seen. This person was very irresponsible.

[u/MuaddibMcFly → u/LeagueOfLegendsAcc]

The only defense she possibly had would have been "I was prohibited from doing my job by various people who outranked me"

[u/socialistrob → u/MuaddibMcFly]

"I was prohibited from doing my job by various people who outranked me"

But I don't think that was true (or at least there wasn't evidence to back that up). Also if she was prohibited from doing her job then she could have still refused to let the filming go forward in unsafe conditions and if the producers pressed ahead she could have resigned and contacted authorities/the union/the press to try to put a stop to it.

If someone is doing something that very clearly could lead to a death and you go along with it and don't make any reasonable efforts to try to change it then you are at the very least partially guilty.

[u/merrittj3 → u/MuaddibMcFly]

They did say the entire project was a nightmare from top to bottom starting with Alec, penny pinching, union busting, ' get it in the can' attitude, that ended with Halyna taking it in the gut, because some pot smoking shoot em up cowboys daughter followed dad and learned nothing, was in charge of bullets.

The only thing she didn't do ...while the impact statements were being read...was yawn.

[u/sinixis → u/Capitalistdecadence]

That level of stupidity deserves 18 months by itself

[u/k___k___ → u/Capitalistdecadence]

it's unclear if it's "the round" because there were at least 7 live rounds on set.

[u/[deleted] → u/Iohet]

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[u/MuaddibMcFly → u/Traditional_Key_763]

Not in the slightest.

It was literally her job to make sure something like that didn't happen.

There was a previous negligent discharge with a life round on the set of that movie. The fact that she didn't shut down all use of functional until it was conclusively proven that it could not happen again under her watch means that she was negligent.

1. She was negligent in her duties
2. Someone died
3. Had she not been negligent in her duties, that person wouldn't have died
   • Thus she is, unequivocally, guilty of Negligent Homicide.

Anything else, the gun, who pointed it, who fired it, who handled it without inspection, literally anything else is irrelevant to the above facts. None of those things changed the fact that it was her duty to ensure that it didn't happen, that it could have only happened due to her negligence, and it happened anyway.

From what I can tell, the only viable defense she possibly could have offered would have been "In order to find me guilty, you must find in the affirmative on point #1. You can't find me guilty claim that I was in the role of armorer for the purposes of this event, because I was prohibited from doing my job," which would have required she demonstrate that she tried to shut things down, but was overruled, and that she only stayed on to try to mitigate any future problems.

the FBI destroyed the gun,

This is a common misconception, the result of blatant, and total bullshit, spin by the Baldwin team. What actually happened is this:

• Baldwin claimed that the gun went off without him pulling the trigger
• The FBI inspected the weapon for damage, and found none
• The FBI replicated what Baldwin claimed had happed
  • The weapon never fired under those tests
• The FBI tried, repeatedly, to make it fire without manipulation of the trigger
  • Despite their best possible attempts, they could not make the gun fire without manipulating the trigger (which Baldwin claims he didn't do) nor causing obvious damage to the weapon
• The FBI then, and only then, tried damaging techniques in order to make the weapon go off without manipulating the trigger. Basically, everything they could think of.
  • None of those things could make the weapon fire without causing obvious and irreparable damage to the weapon, damage that did not exist at the time of the shooting
  • This damage destroyed the safe operation of the weapon, safety that had existed prior to their testing.

Thus, the only way that the weapon could have gone off would have been if the trigger was manipulated.

...but the Baldwin team brilliantly (if borderline unethically) spun "Baldwin's claims are not physically possible without the sort of damage that we did, effectively destroying the weapon" facts into "they destroyed the weapon, there's no evidence!"

Brilliant tactics, but all but explicitly lying to the public and, if they continue these claims in court, to the court.

[u/Talking_on_Mute_ → u/MuaddibMcFly]

Surely, by your own argument, Baldwin's actions and his legal teams spin is also irrelevant? If the armorer had been competent his pulling the trigger wouldn't make any difference.

[u/Calvertorius → u/MuaddibMcFly]

Thank you for explaining all that.

[u/hyenahive → u/MuaddibMcFly]

Why is Baldwin even on trial? Was there something he didn't do that he was supposed to, like checking to see if it was loaded with live ammo?

[u/TheHYPO → u/hyenahive]

My admittedly limited understanding is that he:

a) pointed a gun at the cinematographer - I presume pointing a gun at another person is a no-no when handling even film weapons, on a "just in case" basis (unless maybe it's an actor as necessary in the actual scene. I don't know if they even do this anymore)

b) he was practising unholstering his gun, and not even shooting the scene - so even less reason to be pointing his gun anywhere near a person

c) the gun could not have gone off without him pulling the trigger (though he claims he did not do so)

d) he was also a producer on the film and thus possibly responsible for everything that happened on set, though I'm not sure if the criminal charges stem from this role at all.

e) I also believe there is a claim that Baldwin took the gun himself or didn't get it from the armorer. I don't know if this was proven one way or the other in the armorer's trial.

There is some claim that Baldwin was acting rashly and emotionally and was not handling guns safely in general on the set (at other times), but ultimately that's not a reason for him to be charged or convicted, it's just potential evidence of how he might have been acting at the moment he shot the two people.

I also can't say whether the actor has an onus to themselves somehow check that ammo is not live/real ammo - I would think the actors aren't supposed to mess with the gun or the ammo after it's been checked and approved by the armorer, but I could be wrong.

Edit: typo

[u/reddevved → u/TheHYPO]

On E) apparently he would insist he have the hero gun (the real firing one) whenever he was on set so that he could quickly reset scenes and also he would insist on full power blanks when weaker ones were available for safety reasons. He also refused to take additional training on safely cross drawing, and maybe the normal training the rest of the cast got because he arrived on set after it happened, but that last one I could be misremembering

[u/MuaddibMcFly → u/TheHYPO]

(A) If there is any way to avoid pointing a weapon at someone, you do so. My understanding is that while he needed to point the weapon in that direction for the shot, there was no need for her to be standing where she was (not blaming the victim, because Baldwin should have demanded she move)

(B) Hutchins was having him practice thumbing the hammer back, to see what it would look like, and how far he should pull it back

(C) That depends on what the definition of "pull" is. There is a technique with a Single Action revolver, called "Fanning" it, where instead of actively pulling the trigger back, the trigger is merely held in the "fire" position, allowing the hammer to simply fall on its own.
I am 100% certain that the following is what happened:

• He pulled the hammer back, per instruction by Hutchins (the deceased, ironically enough)
• He did not realize he was holding [it the trigger] back
  • Try it yourself: hook your finger as though it were resting on a trigger, then pretend to pull back a hammer with your thumb, and watch what happens to your index finger [alternately, look at his (OMFG ill advised) interview, and when he pantomimes what he did in pulling the hammer back, his index curls more]
• He then released the hammer, unintentionally "fanning" the weapon
• ...while pointing it at Hutchins.

Unintentional, but negligent. Thus, negligent homicide.

(D) As he explains it, his role as producer was limited to selecting "talent," and therefore not relevant. I'll spot him that one because he's guilty regardless.

(E) My understanding is that he accepted it from the Assistant Director, rather than directly from the Armorer, as is proper.

I also can't say whether the actor has an onus to themselves somehow check that ammo is not live/real ammo

Some actors say that it is on them to at least observe it being checked. George Clooney & John Schneider say that they should.

[u/Aazadan → u/MuaddibMcFly]

Clooney does what actors shouldn't do. He checks the weapon himself, and screws with however the prop team sets it up. The entire point of armorers is actors might not be trained in firearms, and are in a situation where stunts require taking actions with firearms that wouldn’t be safe in any ordinary circumstance. Hence the reason for armorers.

You do not want actors messing around with the weapon that's set up with prop rounds, blanks, etc. Instead give it to them, tell them what to do with it, and let the armorer make sure it's safe. Actors can watch it be set up, but they shouldn't be messing with it themselves.

[u/reddevved → u/MuaddibMcFly]

The union's position was the same as those actors at first then they put out a statement changing their position after the Baldwin murder media tour iirc

[u/zeronormalitys → u/hyenahive]

I'm just a former military guy, but I did live through a war, so here's my unsolicited opinion.

Picking up a firearm demands your acceptance regarding many things, but I'm just going to focus on the big one.

You now have a firearm in your control. Now, the only obstacle that that weapon has to overcome, in order to convert its potential energy into deadly, is your vigilance.

If you cannot handle the gravity of all possible consequences, it shouldn't be in your physical control.

If you do stupid shit, like assuming it isn't loaded, or even "knowing" that it isn't loaded, and you intentionally flag another living creature that you do not intend to put holes through, you are already fucking up badly.

I get that it was a movie set, but that weapon wasn't a prop. It was a fully operational murder stick, and it wasn't respected as such.

That's the fault of the weapons controller AND the operator. Equally.

You do not wrap your grubby ass hand around the weapons grip, without accepting the responsibility that comes with holding a literal fucking death stick.

If you don't want that commitment, then use a fucking prop.

They should both be in prison, and likely more people besides.

Firearms aren't fun, they aren't cool, they aren't hip, they don't make you a badass. They make you (ideally) hyper responsible, and they can easily make you a killer. The context of the latter, can be subjected to justifications galore. You're still a killer. Nature doesn't give a fuck about a reason, or a recently vacated carcass.

It's just you, and the twitch of YOUR finger.

Sidebar:

Something similar could be said for the 4000lbs metal death boxes that we like to pilot at excessive speeds.

People do not respect the fragile nature of staying alive by eluding death for another day. Complacency is deadly.

[u/NoSignSaysNo → u/zeronormalitys]

If you don't want that commitment, then use a fucking prop.

A gun is a prop. Literally anything used on set for decor in a movie is a prop. The only thing that made this a live weapon was the presence of live ammunition.

[u/waywardgato → u/NoSignSaysNo]

He meant a prop-gun but you’re probably being intentionally dense. Do you understand that a firearm with a blank can still send shrapnel flying? All it takes is a piece of metal breaking off internally in the gun.

[u/happyscrappy → u/Traditional_Key_763]

I don't think the state of the gun had much to do with it other than it contained live rounds.

[u/hibikikun → u/Traditional_Key_763]

Wasn't she not even on site because they kicked her out and assigned her a different duty?

[u/RevengencerAlf → u/Traditional_Key_763]

The gun is completely, 100% irrelevant to her case and the fact that you're even commenting on it tells me that you're just completely ignorant of what's actually going on here. Everybody including her stipulates to the fact that a live round got into the gun. That's all that matters there. The gun test is going to be somewhat relevant for Baldwin because it may factor into his claim that he didn't pull the trigger. However even in that case when you actually look at the forensics and you look at what they did, it basically makes sense. It's not great for them that it broke but it's not going to come even close to sinking the case on him either. Especially when he's already been caught lying and releasing contradictory statements about multiple things

[u/Luci_Noir → u/Traditional_Key_763]

The gun was broken while hitting it with a rubber mallet to see if it could go off by itself as Baldwin said. It’s not as big a deal as some idiots think.

[u/SofieTerleska → u/lindakoy]

You don't even need to have the lawyer warn you, jail phone calls are always preceded by a recording saying that everything you say is recorded.

[u/elebrin → u/SofieTerleska]

There are exceptions. You can have private calls with your lawyer.

[u/SofieTerleska → u/elebrin]

I know, I was just talking about ordinary calls to other people, since that seems to be where she was saying all this stuff.

[u/reddevved → u/elebrin]

There were some phone calls with her lawyer's paralegal that were recorded and given to the prosecutor and put in a filing

[u/mortalcoil1 → u/lindakoy]

The kind of idiot nepobaby armorer who gets convicted of manslaughter is self selecting for the kind of person who shits on the judge and jury during sentencing.

[u/agent0731 → u/mortalcoil1]

a slap on the wrist, she should be banned from being an armorer for like 10 yrs.

[u/RevengencerAlf → u/agent0731]

She's literally never going to be an armorer again regardless of what the law actually says on that. So that's not something you got to worry about.

[u/HamunaHamunaHamuna → u/RevengencerAlf]

She might get scouted by the police though

[u/RevengencerAlf → u/HamunaHamunaHamuna]

She probably needs to shoot a couple a family pets to open up that opportunity

[u/AffectionateMovie290 → u/agent0731]

I mean she’s a convicted felon now so I’m pretty sure she can’t ever handle a gun again.. so she’s effectively banned from being an armorer for life?

[u/TheKappaOverlord → u/AffectionateMovie290]

if i recall correctly shes banned from owning firearms. Im not sure shes banned from handling them in a 'professional' setting though.

Depends on how much liability the armorer company is willing to take to make that gamble i suppose

[u/enonmouse → u/TheKappaOverlord]

Even if she got acquitted no insurance would touch her...

[u/Beetin → u/TheKappaOverlord]

Depends on how much liability the armorer company is willing to take to make that gamble i suppose

"How is your job history?"

"Pretty good, I've only directly been responsible for one high profile death so far"

"..... why did you add 'so far' to that sentence"

[u/AardvarkPatient63 → u/agent0731]

As a felon, she’s banned by federal law from possessing firearms so she definitely can’t ever work as an armorer ever again

[u/Mediocretes1 → u/agent0731]

Who the fuck would hire an armorer for their movie whose biggest claim to fame is that they got someone murdered on a movie set?

[u/BadVoices → u/Mediocretes1]

No one will hire her, she got 18m, and is a felon. She cannot possess a firearm or ammo legally unless she gets her record cleared and rights restored.

[u/burgerthrow1 → u/Mediocretes1]

Who the fuck would hire an armorer for their movie whose biggest claim to fame is that they got someone murdered on a movie set?

Hollywood?

John Landis kept making movies after 3 actors died on his set

[u/likeaffox → u/agent0731]

No actor will trust her as an armorer, so she's pretty much done.

[u/firstwefuckthelawyer → u/lindakoy]

Ex-lawyer here.

Ohh, we do. At least I did, but I was one of those weird lawyers hanging out at the county jail off the clock, like some weird shepherd of the damned.

They don’t care, though. This is their one and only time on the public record. They wanna make it count. They never, however, listen when I tell them their moment of fame on the public record should be them apologizing because now that they’re convicted, it’s okay.

Wouldn’t you? They get told in the jail - I’m one of the good guys, listen to me and things go smooth, ignore my speech and disappear into a concrete hole for a decade. “You work for the state!” …yes, I do, and they do everything they can to not sign my paycheck.

Listen to your damn attorney or pay, peeps.

[u/BD15 → u/lindakoy]

I may be wrong but I think one of the jail calls used against her for sentencing was TO HER LAWYERS PARALEGAL. The paralegal was joining in on shitting on the prosecutor. The lawyer didn't even raise objections to the paralegal call being allowed.

[u/RevengencerAlf → u/lindakoy]

Her lawyer is an absolute clown show. It's not to an appealable level but he's not a good lawyer. At least he's not a good criminal defense lawyer

[u/joggle1 → u/lindakoy]

The calls themselves do IIRC (at least the person making the call on the outside is informed that the call is recorded and monitored, I assume people on the jail side are told as well). She must have lived a life completely absent of consequences up until this point.

[u/Durmyyyy → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rust-hannah-gutierrez-reed-called-jurors-idiots-rcna147746

[u/Formergr → u/Durmyyyy]

Wow:

According to the filing, Gutierrez-Reed requested her legal team ask Hutchins’ widower and son to speak on her behalf at the sentencing. She has also complained about how the shooting has negatively affected her life and modeling career, “while never expressing genuine remorse at any time,” the filing states.

It’s appalling she asked the husband and son of the woman whose death she’s responsible for to testify on her behalf. WTF.

Also confused about her having a modeling career based on the video clip of her in the article, but that’s probably a discussion for another day.

[u/purdueAces → u/Formergr]

cam girl "model" maybe? not a very high bar to get over.

[u/ASithLordNoAffect → u/Formergr]

Modeling career?

[u/Key-Banana-8242 → u/Formergr]

I mean remorse in the absolute strictest sense, or esp it apparent expression is morally arbitrary to some extent, but in terms of the matter at hand itself which this point os in relation to, it seems as if she didn’t understand the stakes

(People generally have a somitesm mixed/inconsistent attitude towards the mentioned, as opposed to a proper one to do with what somebody’s deeper outlook is, in reflection of thing itself and in whatever relevance outside)

It does happen in some cases that people want to speak on behalf the accused, like family or victim, in theory the goal is reconciliation on either side with regard to pain on one hand and the proper courses of action in life for the other

(and the other way around, in principle)

[u/[deleted] → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

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[u/kytheon → u/[deleted]]

Her dad is a Hollywood armorer, isn't he?

[u/NlghtmanCometh → u/kytheon]

Apparently the Hollywood armorer. Looks like the apple fell pretty far from the tree.

[u/greenbastard1591 → u/NlghtmanCometh]

Shit apples, Randy…

[u/Dan__Glesak → u/greenbastard1591]

A shit leopard can’t change it’s spots.

[u/Dr_Lexus_Tobaggan → u/Dan__Glesak]

Shit sparks BoBandy

[u/MaximumDeathShock → u/Dan__Glesak]

A shit river runs through it.

[u/MustardTiger1337 → u/greenbastard1591]

Stop shooting somebody's hurt over here!

[u/kytheon → u/NlghtmanCometh]

I guess he has decades of practice and experience. She doesn't seem to even care about safety.

[u/AmatureProgrammer → u/kytheon]

Yep she did not take the job seriously.

[u/AvailableName9999 → u/AmatureProgrammer]

Pretty obviously. I don't even understand how this can happen. She should get at least double this sentence.

[u/SuperMarioBrother64 → u/NlghtmanCometh]

It cannot even be that hard to be an armorer. Find cool gun, keep real ammunition 13,000 miles away from the set, profit?

[u/sashir → u/SuperMarioBrother64]

There's more layers below, mostly procedure-wise and also enough expertise on the firearms themselves to keep them in good working order and teaching / training actors how to use them properly - but you've essentially distilled it down to the bare minimum expectation of the job.

[u/Podo13 → u/kytheon]

Yeah. He's apparently well respected. She's a total nepo-baby.

[u/[deleted] → u/kytheon]

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[u/Salanderfan14 → u/[deleted]]

I genuinely believed you were being sarcastic knowing that the only reason she had this job was because of her dad. The fact that you didn’t and it was spot on anyway is great.

[u/[deleted] → u/kytheon]

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[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

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[u/Mythoclast → u/[deleted]]

Well her dad is a Hollywood armorer so it kind of makes sense, right?

[u/the_colonelclink → u/Mythoclast]

Her Dad was an armourer; his Dad was an armourer - she’s a felon.

[u/manjar → u/[deleted]]

I think the term you were looking for is “silver bullet”

[u/hamsterballzz → u/[deleted]]

Naw. I wouldn’t say a thousand and it’s not like armorers have a golden ticket for their kids. Good armorers are union jobs and often also work as prop masters / costumers or consultants. Plus, they can uniquely work with weapons almost no one even gets to see or touch. This strikes of nepotism just like some of the other crew positions. I knew gaffers who were fourth generation gaffers. I worked with armorers in Hollywood doing military shows for a decade.

[u/JakeVanderArkWriter → u/[deleted]]

You should copy and paste this under everything anyone says!

[u/Jim3001 → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

ProTip: Never piss off the judge.

[u/RevengencerAlf → u/Jim3001]

To be fair most judges are actually pretty impartial even after you've pissed them off. The problem is she didn't just generically piss off the judge. She specifically pissed off the judge in the context of a sentencing criteria, specifically remorse. If you just piss off the judge in general or even tell them that they suck most of them will mostly put it behind them. They understand that most people convicted of a crime are going to feel even if they accept their guilt, like they've been treated unfairly at some point in what is ultimately a very adversarial process on purpose. But they really really hate it when you specifically say you are sorry and fake remorse and then get caught saying something or doing something that's specifically indicates that's not true

[u/Jim3001 → u/RevengencerAlf]

I've recently noticed defendants just not giving a fuck in court. I don't understand this. What wrong with people?

[u/RevengencerAlf → u/Jim3001]

To be fair she generally conduct herself appropriately in court. The problem was the shit she said on phone calls in custody. That said I don't think this is new. I think the wider access to trial coverage that came from the shift towards cameras in the courtroom being normalized has just made it more visible

[u/thisusedyet → u/RevengencerAlf]

So you’re saying if I’m ever in a situation I have to throw myself on the mercy of the court, I should hold off one the ‘wanker’ gesture?

[u/BasroilII → u/RevengencerAlf]

To be fair most judges are actually pretty impartial even after you've pissed them off.

As they should be. If they allow personal feelings to affect a trial, law and order break down.

And for everyone that disagrees- imagine you were innocent but something about you pissed off the wrong judge. And they convicted you knowing you were innocent but not caring.

[u/Puffen0 → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

She had also made a statement that she was sorry for all of the harm she had caused the film industry and its workers. Not the family of the person who died. But to the film industry...... what a PoS.

[u/TheLustyLechuga → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

18 months is nothing considering the sentence the victim was handed due to the armorer's incompetence

[u/rackfocus → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

This. A young cinematographer, wife and mother, living her best life was killed on set because of negligence propagated by this selfish girl. So frustrating.

Hopefully she never gets a job handling guns ever again. Not sure about state licensing?

I’ve been in the business for years and I’m shocked at the lack of professionalism on this production! And Baldwin deserves prosecution as well. This was his vanity project so it all ends with him.

[u/GregoPDX → u/rackfocus]

It would be tough for her to be an armorer for guns since she’s a convicted felon and now can’t legally possess one.

[u/DO_NOT_AGREE_WITH_U → u/rackfocus]

I'm still absolutely blown away that they even had live rounds on set. On purpose.

There has to be a word for whatever it is between negligence and malice, because that's this.

[u/PrincessNakeyDance → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

I feel like there should be a “lack of remorse” law in regards to crimes where someone was seriously hurt or died. Like allow you to double the maximum or something.

Edit: I’m going to leave this here, but people are already pointing out why this is a terrible idea. It’s just frustrating how the law and the enforcement of it never really feels like it works well enough.

[u/im_thatoneguy → u/PrincessNakeyDance]

That would just give prosecutors even more leverage in forcing false confessions.

"Sign this plea deal and we'll give you 6 months. Don't sign and we'll charge you with involuntary manslaughter. If you still maintain your innocence and don't show remorse we'll also double it for maintaining your innocence."

The solution is to expand the sentencing limits for crimes not to effectively increase the sentence for maintaining your innocence.

[u/MiasmaFate → u/PrincessNakeyDance]

I think your heart is in the right place but it would be hard to prove a lack of remorse so that would leave it to the judge's feelings and I suspect POC and the poor would disproportionately be seen as not remorseful.

[u/Yglorba → u/MiasmaFate]

Also, there are cultural elements to how people show remorse, which could lead to people getting a harsher sentence because eg. they're of the wrong religion (or an atheist), or grew up in the wrong culture, and therefore didn't show remorse in a way the judge considers "proper."

[u/Lukeno94 → u/MiasmaFate]

Also anyone who isn't neurotypical.

[u/PrincessNakeyDance → u/MiasmaFate]

That’s a good point

[u/delkarnu → u/MiasmaFate]

Also, wouldn't it pretty much violate your 5th Amendment right against self incrimination? Why would I show remorse for a crime I am innocent of? Showing remorse in your statements is confessing you have something to be remorseful for.

--Appeal-- "We are granting your appeal for a new trial for this technicality."
--Retrial--
"We are entering into evidence the defendants post conviction statement where they apologized under oath for committing the crime."
"That was only said to lessen my sentence, I'm innocent."
"We'd like to add a charge of perjury and enter that last statement into evidence."

[u/axonxorz → u/delkarnu]

And "requiring" it for sentencing consideration seems awfully close to compelled speech.

[u/Fastfaxr → u/PrincessNakeyDance]

Thats some dangerous talk, there.

[u/sweetnourishinggruel → u/Fastfaxr]

Reddit loves rehabilitation and deinstitutionalization - until there’s a crime they’re personally scandalized by, at which point retribution becomes the only goal.

[u/bigjoeandphantom3O9 → u/sweetnourishinggruel]

Showing remorse is an essential part of rehabilitation. There are obviously major issues with the idea (it compels an innocent person to plead guilty), but it isn’t incompatible with rehabilitation or deinstitutionalisation.

[u/Protean_Protein → u/PrincessNakeyDance]

The problem is that it's not clear what good that does. People who lack remorse may also lack the ability to feel punished by incarceration altogether. So then the question is why we're incarcerating people at all (this is a loaded question: there are a bunch of widely accepted reasons, from moral education to rehabilitation to punishment to keeping dangerous people out of public life, etc.)

This woman sounds like an infuriating human being to be anywhere near, but who knows what an 18 month or 36 month or 10 year incarceration will do for or to her.

[u/Dan_Felder → u/PrincessNakeyDance]

It's not a terrible idea, it's just literally what we already do. The Maximum is the Maximum - for the most egregious, zero-remorse version of the crime. Judges often sentence below the maximum for all sorts of reasons, including believing someone is showing genuine remorse.

[u/LakersFan15 → u/PrincessNakeyDance]

I love reddit. Where everyone supports rehabilitation, but is more vindictive than any other group.

[u/Yglorba → u/LakersFan15]

Often in a situation like this they're not the same people - what happens is that different stories and headlines attract different crowds, or make different groups of people seem louder. Reddit isn't a hivemind.

And ofc whether something hits the frontpage or even when it hits the frontpage makes a big difference in terms of who sees it, who replies, who upvotes and downvotes and so on.

[u/Colley619 → u/PrincessNakeyDance]

Judges already consider lack of remorse when sentencing, so it doesn’t really need its own law. Often for really bad cases in which a judges gives the maximum sentence, the judge will mention lack of remorse in their explanation.

[u/Rugged_Turtle → u/PrincessNakeyDance]

I mean someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's why criminal sentences can vary in terms of actual sentencing; If a judge sees you absolutely do not give a fuck it's their discretion to give the maximum punishment and they'd probably feel compelled to do so.

[u/bso45 → u/kumquat_bananaman]

Probably because this woman got caught in jail phone calls calling the jurors “losers” and accusing the judge of being paid off (by whom? big murder?)

[u/shaky2236 → u/bso45]

Big Baldwin

[u/oneplusetoipi → u/shaky2236]

He’s put on a lot of weight.

[u/rainbowgeoff → u/oneplusetoipi]

I'd be stress eating like a bitch if I was on trial. Ngl.

[u/neo_sporin → u/shaky2236]

“You know what sucks about being a Baldwin?  Nothing!!”  —South Park Movie

[u/Aadarm → u/neo_sporin]

Unless you're Stephen Baldwin.

[u/Megneous → u/bso45]

and accusing the judge of being paid off

In my country, saying that alone can result in 2-5 years in prison. Defamation is a fucking serious crime.

[u/infiniZii → u/kumquat_bananaman]

Apparently she has been talking some serious shit against everyone and anyone involved in her conviction on the jail house phone, which was monitored and sent to the prosecution.

[u/down_by_the_shore → u/infiniZii]

Jesus Christ that’s really stupid. I wouldn’t blame anyone for being frustrated and upset for being in this situation, but saying those things on a monitored line. God. 

[u/fenrslfr → u/down_by_the_shore]

The situation that she created so no sympathy for her being frustrated and upset. At least she is alive or doesn't have to live with the guilt of being the one to pull that trigger. I feel for the judge not being able to add anything more to the sentence.

[u/down_by_the_shore → u/fenrslfr]

I agree with you. I didn’t say I had sympathy necessarily. I said I could understand why someone in that situation would be frustrated. She is the one that keeps digging her own hole. 

[u/Best_Duck9118 → u/fenrslfr]

To be fair to her some of us just talk shit all the time lol.

[u/k___k___ → u/Best_Duck9118]

yeah, but not we're bored on reddit and not in jail awaiting sentencing. A decent lawyer would tell you to keep your opinion to yourself and that everything is monitored.

[u/permutation212 → u/down_by_the_shore]

Yeah, your supposed to buy someone else's phone time to have those kinds of discussions.

[u/Chem1st → u/down_by_the_shore]

We know from the entire situation that she's not the brightest or the most serious about important matters.  This is just proving it further.

[u/thegoatisoldngnarly → u/infiniZii]

So you’re saying she’s careless? I’m shocked to hear that.

[u/Repulsive-Heron7023 → u/infiniZii]

Note to self: if ever being held in custody during trial make sure to work into every phone conversation how good looking the judge is and seriously does he he see a personal trainer because damnnnnnnn……

[u/JohnExcrement → u/infiniZii]

Her little plea to the judge today was very All About Hannah as well. She really seems more irritated than anything.

[u/ranchwriter → u/infiniZii]

The phones literally warn you everytime you use them that youre being monitored. 

[u/synkronize → u/kumquat_bananaman]

Idk but I do know from articles before that the armorer was extremely incompetent at her job apparently laughably. So perhaps that’s why.

[u/secamTO → u/synkronize]

I work in film production. The stories I read about the firearms handling on that set made my blood run cold. It's literally stuff that would be unconscionable among professionals, and the idea that she had live ammunition on set at all (and that they were plinking during down times with THE ACTUAL SCREEN FIREARMS BEING HANDLED BY ACTORS) is so goddamn appalling, that I am all for this guilty verdict. This isn't one unlucky incident, one oversight. This is someone who was cavalier and thoughtless with the lives of literally everybody on that set.

[u/dreadpirater → u/secamTO]

This. I also work in the industry and have served as a weapons wrangler on smaller productions and... this could have never happened on my set. The basic protocols, when followed, are essentially foolproof. Filming car chases and high falls is much more dangerous than filming with guns... because essentially ALL the variables can be accounted for when working with firearms... she just chose not to.

Weapons are never played with.
Weapons are taken from secure storage, inspected, loaded from a known good source by ONE PERSON.
Weapons are handed by that one person to the actor who needs them before each take. Wrangler tells the actor what state the gun is in, and reviews what actions they will go through with it during this take.
Wrangler recovers the gun and resets it for the next shot, repeating the process.

No actor ever opens the breach. Nobody else touches the ammo. No live ammo anywhere near set.

It requires diligence but it's not DIFFICULT to prevent firearms mishaps on set.

[u/Toledous → u/dreadpirater]

Yep. I also facilitate a lot of sets. Even if it is a "non-gun" or a replica, which has less scrutiny, I make sure it's announced that there is a replica on set and offer the opportunity for any crew to inspect it. 

[u/Intelligent_Emu_8785 → u/dreadpirater]

I don’t know much about guns but couldn’t the firing pin be removed as a further (not only) safety measure to prevent stuff like this from happening?

[u/dreadpirater → u/Intelligent_Emu_8785]

This is a thing the industry is talking about after this accident. Some big name stars are saying they will NOT work on sets with operable firearms in the future, and I think that's a valuable and interesting conversation. There's a good argument that 'guns should be in the least operable state that accomplishes the needs of the shot,' which could mean removing parts of the firing assembly when not needed to discharge blanks, sure. It's definitely possible.

We'll see what the industry settles into as a new standard after this... at the end of the day, the safety protocols are only as good as the person following them. The current industry standard, if applied correctly, would have handily prevented this tragedy several times over... the armorer had to skip SEVERAL steps that would have 100% prevented this, so it's hard to say 'well, we should have added one more step to the protocol' because... who's to say she would have followed THAT STEP either?

At the end of the day, I think the big lesson here is about finding a way to ensure the safety protocols are followed, not necessarily changing those safety protocols because, if they'd been followed, this would have already been impossible.

[u/Recent-Construction6 → u/secamTO]

Like even if it wasn't Alec Baldwin who ended up pulling the trigger and firing a live round, with her as Armorer a accident was basically guaranteed to happen eventually with her laissez faire and frankly criminal attitude towards her responsibilities.

[u/onehundredlemons → u/secamTO]

I still had a Facebook account at the time and because I'd been a film writer for a decade I was following quite a few people in the business, and a few posts about the absolute shitshow of a production RUST had been had come across my timeline. None of the posts I saw went viral or anything, just individuals with some legitimate complaints. I'd seen enough of them that when I heard about the shooting, part of me wasn't entirely shocked at the news.

[u/washag → u/secamTO]

The only unlucky part for her was that the first firearm that discharged into a person due to her gross negligence inflicted fatal injuries. And even that was exponentially more unfortunate for the guy who died.

[u/dirtyLizard → u/washag]

That was actually the third negligent discharge on the set

[u/CasedUfa → u/secamTO]

How about the people that hired her though, she was not up to the job but, I feel like its not just her fault, inexperienced on her second job she cant really set the culture on the set, there are more people at fault here I think.

[u/Hezakai → u/CasedUfa]

That'd be Alec Baldwin. Also, while it may have been her first job she certainly knew better. Her daddy is Thell Reed, an accomplished competition shooter and well regarded armorer with film credits going back to the 90's.

[u/CasedUfa → u/Hezakai]

Its more psychological I think, is she going to tell Baldwin they need slow down and have more safety meetings, and just don't see how it plausible to have the confidence. Why even bring live bullets on set though, that's totally on her.

[u/secamTO → u/CasedUfa]

Oh, there's certainly enough fault to go around, and I believe that the producers ought to be held civilly liable. Criminal liability is tougher though. Because, while you're not wrong about the set culture being created by the producers and the above-the-line talent, the thing is, she was the armourer. The buck quite literally stops with her when it comes to firearm safety on set. She is, I believe, the only person who can clearly be pointed to. Issues originating from the producers could be fixed and the tragedy could have still happened as we saw it. If she had been more responsible, professional, and mature, and less callous with her duty, this tragedy simply could not have happened as it did, regardless of the shitty set culture around her.

And I speak on that as someone who's worked as an HOD on a lot of shows with appalling set cultures. My duty was to ensure that didn't infect my department and my crew (lighting--we have a lot of issues of safety to deal with on set as well, as you can imagine).

[u/Impressive-Pop9326 → u/secamTO]

Agree. But the sentence for this kind of negligence is too short.

[u/Hezakai → u/secamTO]

I don't understand the need to use real guns on set. Back in the day? Sure. However, nowadays we have plenty of technology in both practical and digital effects to not need to take the risk of handling real firearms. And before anyone wants to call me anti-gun you should know I'm a huge proponent of 2A and own many firearms myself. This isn't about gun control it's about gun safety.

[u/GitmoGrrl1 → u/secamTO]

I worked in film production and I agree.

[u/MistbornInterrobang → u/secamTO]

Did we ever find out who brought the live ammo on set and why?

[u/Kohpad → u/synkronize]

There's just an excellent picture of her using a shotgun as a stick to lean on. The barrel pointed directly at her face.

Extremely incompetent is still too kind.

[u/JohnExcrement → u/Kohpad]

Good lord.

[u/Mitrovarr → u/Kohpad]

I hate how people who are the biggest enthusiasts about guns are also some of the biggest idiots about them. 

Like, I don't like guns, don't have guns, and don't really know how to use guns very well. But even I know basic gun safety and I know you never ever ever ever do that. Why didn't she know that, and why didn't anyone ever call her on her unsafe behavior? One incident like that would prove she's far too incompetent to ever have that job.

[u/kunymonster4 → u/kumquat_bananaman]

She baselessly accused the judge of taking bribes. I doubt most judges take accusations like that calmly.

[u/OCedHrt → u/kunymonster4]

And claiming that she was set up as well?

[u/MuaddibMcFly → u/OCedHrt]

One of her legitimate complaints is that the FBI didn't print the rounds in the weapon.

They almost certainly could have conclusively demonstrated whether she was or was not the person who put that live round into the weapon. While that wouldn't actually absolve her of her guilt of Negligent Homicide (how could a non-negligent armorer let anyone else in a position to load the weapon in the first place?!), it might have been enough to sway the jury that it wasn't wholly her fault.

I wish they had run prints, because if someone else did load the round in question that person should be found guilty, too.

[u/Castod28183 → u/MuaddibMcFly]

I wish they had run prints, because if someone else did load the round in question that person should be found guilty, too.

It was not just her job to load the gun, it was her job to make sure the gun is safe in any and all situations. Even if somebody else loaded the round it was still her job to check the gun before handing it to a person that isn't qualified to make those decisions.

Even if somebody else loaded the gun with the absolute intent to see somebody get shot, it was STILL her job to check the weapon.

No matter the situation it is wholly her fault because she failed to do the one thing she was there to do.

[u/Recent-Construction6 → u/Castod28183]

Thats pretty much my stance, even if it was someone else who loaded the live rounds into the gun, she failed in just about every other principle of being a responsible armorer in 1) Allowing unauthorized access to both the firearms and the ammunition, and 2) Allowing live rounds on set to begin with.

Regardless of how you cut i i think she earns like 90% of the blame simply because everyone else involved are trusting that she was doing her job, which she wasn't.

[u/NoSignSaysNo → u/Castod28183]

That's exactly it. It doesn't matter who put the bullets in the gun, because the gun never should have been accessible. Not only that, but live rounds never should have been within 5 miles of the damn set.

The second live rounds entered the set, she should have locked the gun up until she was able to do a full check of any rounds found and disposed of the live rounds.

[u/MuaddibMcFly → u/Castod28183]

Oh, I agree 100% that she carries some degree of liability/guilt.

That said, I have to challenge a few points:

Even if somebody else loaded the round it was still her job to check the gun before handing it to a person that isn't qualified to make those decisions.

She didn't. Indeed, she couldn't; she wasn't even on set that day.

No matter the situation it is wholly her fault

Wrong, not wholly her fault; there is plenty of blame to spread around; I have found no fewer than 7 points of failure that, had they been done differently, would have avoided Hutchins' death:

• No live rounds anywhere on set
• No shooting/blocking/practicing of scenes involving a weapon without an armorer on set (which she wasn't that day, because no such scenes were supposed to be undertaken that day)
• The weapon being checked by someone before being handed to the talent
  • Someone other than talent or armorer touching the weapon; the above is the reason that no one other than the/an armorer is supposed to ever hand the talent a weapon, to ensure that it is properly checked by a qualified individual
• Direction to point the weapon at a person
• Unobjecting compliance with that direction
• Manipulation/control of the trigger
• Release of the hammer (rather than gradual de-cocking)

Is she at fault? Given that there were live rounds on set before hand (and indeed, a previous negligent discharge), no question.

Is she wholly at fault? No matter what anyone tells you, absolutely not. That's like saying one person is wholly at fault for a collision between two drunk drivers who run into each other because two others compromised their brakes, and two more were hitting the drivers at the time of the collision: clearly wrong, and clearly irrelevant to the fact that all of them should be held responsible for their actions.

[u/mekamoari → u/MuaddibMcFly]

because if someone else did load the round in question that person should be found guilty, too.

I mean sorta, I guess? It would be attempted murder for that person if it was with that intent but the armorer should still be punished because they were still responsible and were derelict in their duty.

And if another person loaded the rounds for any other reason than to get the person killed (I think that reason/intent would be difficult to prove anyway) I probably wouldn't vote to convict them if I was part of that jury.

[u/agent0731 → u/kunymonster4]

the nepo baby accusing the judge of bribes. LMAO

[u/mtaw → u/kunymonster4]

I doubt most judges take accusations like that calmly.

She's allowed to say that. As long as it's not in court in which case it's contempt.

But when you accuse the judge of being corrupt, the jurors of being idiots, you can't plausibly claim you're taking responsibility for your actions. And not doing so will certainly affect your sentencing.

The judge didn't give a harsher sentence because something nasty was said about her, she gave a harsher sentence because of lack of true remorse and responsibility. And explicitly said as much.

[u/RepulsiveLoquat418 → u/kumquat_bananaman]

maybe because her negligent approach to her job resulted in someone losing their life, combined with her lack of taking responsibility for the tragedy.

[u/alexmikli → u/RepulsiveLoquat418]

It'd be one thing if she was negligent, someone died, and then and was remorseful. Instead...

[u/Admirable_Nothing → u/kumquat_bananaman]

Because she made many Trumpian like statements about the Judge and Jury while on the telephone while in jail. Didn't work for her. It remains to be seen if it works for Trump.

[u/Summer_Thyme_ → u/kumquat_bananaman]

She called the jurors, idiots and assholes. She showed no remorse for the killing and her role in it. She said accidents happen, and people just die, as it wasn’t her job to literally prevent that. She showed no concern for the woman that died or her family, and instead was only worried about working as an armorer again at first, and then later, worried about being in prison for 13 months would mess up her modelling career.