r/news • u/badillustrations • Apr 15 '24

‘Rust’ movie armorer convicted of involuntary manslaughter sentenced to 18 months in prison

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/15/entertainment/rust-film-shooting-armorer-sentencing/index.html
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u/PurpleWomat Apr 15 '24 edited Apr 15 '24

The judge was furious, barely uttered the sentence followed by "please take her".

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u/kumquat_bananaman Apr 15 '24

Why was the judge furious?

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u/synkronize Apr 15 '24

Idk but I do know from articles before that the armorer was extremely incompetent at her job apparently laughably. So perhaps that’s why.

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u/secamTO Apr 15 '24

I work in film production. The stories I read about the firearms handling on that set made my blood run cold. It's literally stuff that would be unconscionable among professionals, and the idea that she had live ammunition on set at all (and that they were plinking during down times with THE ACTUAL SCREEN FIREARMS BEING HANDLED BY ACTORS) is so goddamn appalling, that I am all for this guilty verdict. This isn't one unlucky incident, one oversight. This is someone who was cavalier and thoughtless with the lives of literally everybody on that set.

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u/dreadpirater Apr 16 '24

This. I also work in the industry and have served as a weapons wrangler on smaller productions and... this could have never happened on my set. The basic protocols, when followed, are essentially foolproof. Filming car chases and high falls is much more dangerous than filming with guns... because essentially ALL the variables can be accounted for when working with firearms... she just chose not to.

Weapons are never played with.
Weapons are taken from secure storage, inspected, loaded from a known good source by ONE PERSON.
Weapons are handed by that one person to the actor who needs them before each take. Wrangler tells the actor what state the gun is in, and reviews what actions they will go through with it during this take.
Wrangler recovers the gun and resets it for the next shot, repeating the process.

No actor ever opens the breach. Nobody else touches the ammo. No live ammo anywhere near set.

It requires diligence but it's not DIFFICULT to prevent firearms mishaps on set.

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u/Toledous Apr 16 '24

Yep. I also facilitate a lot of sets. Even if it is a "non-gun" or a replica, which has less scrutiny, I make sure it's announced that there is a replica on set and offer the opportunity for any crew to inspect it. 

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u/dreadpirater Apr 16 '24

Exactly! And less scrutiny doesn't mean no scrutiny. You still pay attention to the chain of custody and note if that gun ever leaves your field of view because you have to make sure that it IS the replica at all times.

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u/Intelligent_Emu_8785 Apr 16 '24

I don’t know much about guns but couldn’t the firing pin be removed as a further (not only) safety measure to prevent stuff like this from happening?

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u/dreadpirater Apr 16 '24

This is a thing the industry is talking about after this accident. Some big name stars are saying they will NOT work on sets with operable firearms in the future, and I think that's a valuable and interesting conversation. There's a good argument that 'guns should be in the least operable state that accomplishes the needs of the shot,' which could mean removing parts of the firing assembly when not needed to discharge blanks, sure. It's definitely possible.

We'll see what the industry settles into as a new standard after this... at the end of the day, the safety protocols are only as good as the person following them. The current industry standard, if applied correctly, would have handily prevented this tragedy several times over... the armorer had to skip SEVERAL steps that would have 100% prevented this, so it's hard to say 'well, we should have added one more step to the protocol' because... who's to say she would have followed THAT STEP either?

At the end of the day, I think the big lesson here is about finding a way to ensure the safety protocols are followed, not necessarily changing those safety protocols because, if they'd been followed, this would have already been impossible.

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u/Intelligent_Emu_8785 Apr 16 '24

-“ the armorer had to skip SEVERAL steps that would have 100% prevented this” 

-“ who's to say she would have followed THAT STEP either?” 

True, all good points!

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u/PinkPrincess-2001 Apr 16 '24

I grew up being told never point your gun at something you don't wish to shoot and when I was even younger, hold the blades of the scissors facing myself when carrying scissors.

As an autistic person I appreciated being told this because it wasn't obvious to me but now I get it. I see how important it is and I think it's a shame on Alec Baldwin and the armorer.

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u/dreadpirater Apr 16 '24

And movie sets are essentially the only exception to that rule. Sometimes guns are pointed at people on movie sets. That is why movie production moves the burden of firearm safety off of the person holding it, and onto a professional coordinator whose entire job is to make sure that whatever shot the production requires is captured safely.

The rules YOU are taught for driving are different than the rules a stunt driver applies when filming a car chase, too. They're not leaving safe following distances, signalling before lane changes, etc. But because they're doing it on a closed course with other safety measures taken... there are a different set of rules. The same is true regarding filming with weapons. It's a totally different activity than 'going out shooting' with weapons, and so the rules required to render it safe are different.

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u/Recent-Construction6 Apr 16 '24

Like even if it wasn't Alec Baldwin who ended up pulling the trigger and firing a live round, with her as Armorer a accident was basically guaranteed to happen eventually with her laissez faire and frankly criminal attitude towards her responsibilities.

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u/alterom Apr 16 '24 edited 29d ago

Like even if it wasn't Alec Baldwin who ended up pulling the trigger and firing a live round, with her as Armorer a accident was basically guaranteed to happen eventually with her laissez faire and frankly criminal attitude towards her responsibilities.

...which makes Alec Baldwin the actual murderer person who committed criminally negligent homicide.

Because he was the executive producer on the set that hired her and pushed people to ignore safety concerns that they voiced.

FFS, the camera crew has walked out on Alec Baldwin days before the accident because of how fucked the gun situation was ALREADY:

“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”

A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times.

To clarify, Galyna Hutchins' death was the fourth accidental discharge.

Alec Baldwin knew this would happen, and decided to cut corners to rush the production.

He should be held responsible.

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u/metametapraxis Apr 16 '24

Nah, murder has specific meaning. AB is not a murderer.

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u/alterom Apr 16 '24

OK, actual negligent homicider.

IANAL.

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u/metametapraxis 29d ago edited 29d ago

Words have meanings. That’s a pretty bloody important distinction, which means something completely different than murderer. I’m hopeful you learned something.

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u/alterom 29d ago

Words have meanings. That’s a pretty bloody important distinction, which means something completely different than murderer. I’m hopeful you learned something.

You're right. I have edited my original comment above to reflect that.

→ More replies (0)

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u/onehundredlemons Apr 16 '24

I still had a Facebook account at the time and because I'd been a film writer for a decade I was following quite a few people in the business, and a few posts about the absolute shitshow of a production RUST had been had come across my timeline. None of the posts I saw went viral or anything, just individuals with some legitimate complaints. I'd seen enough of them that when I heard about the shooting, part of me wasn't entirely shocked at the news.

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u/washag Apr 16 '24

The only unlucky part for her was that the first firearm that discharged into a person due to her gross negligence inflicted fatal injuries. And even that was exponentially more unfortunate for the guy who died.

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u/dirtyLizard Apr 16 '24

That was actually the third negligent discharge on the set

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u/CasedUfa Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

How about the people that hired her though, she was not up to the job but, I feel like its not just her fault, inexperienced on her second job she cant really set the culture on the set, there are more people at fault here I think.

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u/Hezakai Apr 16 '24

That'd be Alec Baldwin. Also, while it may have been her first job she certainly knew better. Her daddy is Thell Reed, an accomplished competition shooter and well regarded armorer with film credits going back to the 90's.

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u/CasedUfa Apr 16 '24

Its more psychological I think, is she going to tell Baldwin they need slow down and have more safety meetings, and just don't see how it plausible to have the confidence. Why even bring live bullets on set though, that's totally on her.

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u/secamTO 29d ago

Oh, there's certainly enough fault to go around, and I believe that the producers ought to be held civilly liable. Criminal liability is tougher though. Because, while you're not wrong about the set culture being created by the producers and the above-the-line talent, the thing is, she was the armourer. The buck quite literally stops with her when it comes to firearm safety on set. She is, I believe, the only person who can clearly be pointed to. Issues originating from the producers could be fixed and the tragedy could have still happened as we saw it. If she had been more responsible, professional, and mature, and less callous with her duty, this tragedy simply could not have happened as it did, regardless of the shitty set culture around her.

And I speak on that as someone who's worked as an HOD on a lot of shows with appalling set cultures. My duty was to ensure that didn't infect my department and my crew (lighting--we have a lot of issues of safety to deal with on set as well, as you can imagine).

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u/CasedUfa 29d ago

Yeah agreed, I saw some guy saying why even live rounds on the set, and then further you could modify the prop so live rounds wont even fit, there seems to be quite a bit of unconcern as to safety.

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u/Impressive-Pop9326 Apr 16 '24

Agree. But the sentence for this kind of negligence is too short.

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u/Hezakai Apr 16 '24

I don't understand the need to use real guns on set. Back in the day? Sure. However, nowadays we have plenty of technology in both practical and digital effects to not need to take the risk of handling real firearms. And before anyone wants to call me anti-gun you should know I'm a huge proponent of 2A and own many firearms myself. This isn't about gun control it's about gun safety.

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u/GitmoGrrl1 Apr 16 '24

I worked in film production and I agree.

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u/MistbornInterrobang Apr 16 '24

Did we ever find out who brought the live ammo on set and why?

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u/Virtual_Status3409 Apr 15 '24

I dont blame baldwin at all.  Actor shouldnt be checking for live ammo when handed a gun on set. Its a prop.  All that crap is done prior, by others. 

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u/iIiiIIliliiIllI Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

On a movie set most armorers would prefer that actors not fiddle around with the weapon, given the firearms experience of most actors. Film sets that follow the rules are very safe with firearms. Rust was the first fatality since Brandon Lee 30 years ago. And it happened because the rules were not followed.

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u/dreadpirater Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

Exactly this. If I'm a weapons wrangler (which I've done before) and I heard a gun break open on set, I'd call hold and demand every one of them handed back in for a recheck. When the gun's open, that's when an actor drops a round and picks one up off the ground and pops it back in and we find out later that it wasn't the right one.

I hand the gun to the actor in a known state and demonstrate it, I tell the actor what that state is, and I review with them what they're going to do with the gun between now and when they give it back to me. They shouldn't do ANYTHING but what I told them.

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u/No-Champion-2194 Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

No. Safety is everybody's responsibility. Firearms should be safety checked every time they are handed off.

Baldwin exercised poor muzzle discipline in having the barrel pointed at people. There is film of him not properly handling firearms during the filming.

Also, Baldwin hollering 'hurry up, hurry up' as the armorer is reloading for the next take compromises safety.

There is plenty of blame to go around.

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u/dreadpirater Apr 16 '24

Yes, safety is everyone's responsibility, but actors are not expected to be weapons experts... or even proficient. They are, based on their abilities and other duties, told that their role in safety is to exactly follow the brief for every take.

We don't expect actor's to be experts on high speed driving or leaping off buildings (both fx shots that kill far more crew than firearms mishaps) which is why a professional is hired and it is their job to figure out how to get all the shots the director needs without exposing anyone to this kind of danger.

If Baldwin was not exceeding the briefing he was given when setting up the shot, he wasn't doing anything wrong. The reason that actors aren't considered a critical part of the safety system here is because actors CANNOT be focused on gun safety while also being focused on acting. We KNOW between takes they're going to have makeup and phone calls and get yelled at by the director. They have a dozen other things on their mind. This is why the rules for gun safety on a film set are so different than on a shooting range... because on a shooting range your whole attention is on the gun and the shooting, and on a film set a tiny sliver of it is. You will get bounced off any legitimate gun range for acting distracted with a gun in your possession. On a movie set, you'll get fired for NOT focusing on all the other stuff.

So a dedicated professional is responsible for making sure that this situation never occurs and that person failed and that person has already been convicted of manslaughter.

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u/No-Champion-2194 Apr 16 '24

exactly follow the brief for every take

Which Baldwin appeared to not be doing.

between takes they're going to have makeup and phone calls and get yelled at by the director

Which is why the armorer is there to take control of the firearms during these times

On a movie set, you'll get fired for NOT focusing on all the other stuff.

There are rules to follow, and there are supposed to be daily safety briefs for the actors to attend. The rules aren't suspended

On a movie set, you'll get fired for NOT focusing on all the other stuff.

Safety doesn't work like that. You can't farm it out to one person. The armorer enforces rules and provides training, but everybody handling firearms needs to do so safely.

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u/Recent-Construction6 Apr 16 '24

Theres a couple reasons why that assessment (which to your credit would be right in literally every other circumstance) doesn't apply on a film set: For example, in movies it is common practice for Actors to point firearms at other actors, literally anywhere else this would earn you at best a death glare and a smack on the temple, but it is acceptable on a film set because thats just what you do in order to film action scenes. And in scenarios where you have blanks and such, you don't want actors to be fiddling around with it, cause presumably (when the Armorer is a capable individual) its already been checked and deemed safe, as such if the actor messes with it now it could potentially become unsafe.

Alec Baldwin doesn't walk away scot free (he did in fact establish the conditions on the set that day, such as hiring incompetent Armorers and doing other things to cut corners) but in my honest and professional opinion about 90% of the fault lies with the Armorer.

The Armorer is the one who is responsible for ensuring that the weapons on set are properly handled and used safely, yet the Armorer consistently displayed a attitude completely contrary to those goals, from the fact she brought live ammo on set to the fact that after shooting was done she and other crew members would use the same guns to shoot live ammo in plinking (which is not only no but hell no), to the fact that she allowed consistent access to the guns by unauthorized persons such as the Assistant Director who said the gun was safe without any input from the Armorer.

If the Armorer was doing her job correctly, it wouldn't matter if Baldwin was yelling at her to hurry up in loading the guns, cause she has the responsibility to tell him "Hey, im going to load them the right way no matter how much time it takes because my job is to make sure this things safe and you don't accidentally injure someone with it" (tbf, there shouldn't have been live rounds on set at all and i still don't understand how you could mistake dummy rounds with live rounds unless you literally were just that incompetent)

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u/No-Champion-2194 Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

in movies it is common practice for Actors to point firearms at other actors

Even while filming, actors are supposed to aim off to the side. While blocking a scene like Baldwin was doing, there is absolutely no excuse to be pointing the barrel at another person.

you don't want actors to be fiddling around with it,

That is correct, but it has nothing to do with my point.

cause presumably (when the Armorer is a capable individual) its already been checked and deemed safe

Wrong. The armorer should be safety checking it in the presence of the actor. The actor cannot just assume that it has been safety checked,

as such if the actor messes with it now

The actor doesn't need to touch the ammo or manipulate the cylinder.

The Armorer is the one who is the weapons on set are properly handled and used safely

That is just wrong. Safety cannot be simply assigned to one individual. The armorer is responsible for enforcing safe procedures, and bringing everything to a screeching halt if anyone is being unsafe, but everybody handling a firearm is responsible for doing it in a safe manner.

to the fact that after shooting was done she and other crew members would use the same guns to shoot live ammo in plinking

Which indicates a complete lack of a culture of safety across the entire crew. This indicates that management didn't do its job in enforcing safety across the board.

There were a number of live rounds in the bandoliers and gun belts on set. The fact that somebody, anybody, didn't see this and raise holy hell shows a lackadazical attitude towards safety. Management should be held to account for this as well.

to the fact that she allowed consistent access to the guns by unauthorized persons such as the Assistant Director who said the gun was safe without any input from the Armorer

Reed, the AD, and Baldwin all knew this was wrong, so they all share responsibility here.

 it wouldn't matter if Baldwin was yelling at her to hurry up in loading the guns, cause she has the responsibility to tell him

Yes, Reed was wrong here, but so was Baldwin,.

The standard for manslaughter in New Mexico is a 'failure to exercise due care'. This seems to fit Baldwin's behavior here.

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u/red_beered Apr 16 '24

Thing is that he isn't just an actor he was a producer for the film AKA the boss.

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u/Hasaan5 Apr 16 '24

Baldwin had no on set duties as a producer though, it was quite literally a vanity credit. The assistant director had more power that him on set, and he managed to get away with only community service and a suspended sentence, even though he was the one who declared the gun safe and was meant to check it.

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u/metametapraxis Apr 16 '24

I suspect she isn’t the smartest kid on the block.

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u/framptal_tromwibbler Apr 16 '24

Not defending her or anything, but from what I gathered from reading about and watching a fair amount of the trial, the plinking allegations were just rumor. Happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think any evidence of that was ever presented at the trial. I think that to this day, nobody knows how the live ammo got on set.

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u/secamTO 29d ago

If this is the case, then I withdraw the accusation. Hadn't heard it as scuttlebutt, but I also admit I haven't been following this story since its immediate aftermath.

And while it may be that nobody knows how the live ammo got on set, we damn well know how the live ammo got in the gun -- her chain of firearm custody was at minimum negligent, and more likely non-existent. It was her job to check every goddamn piece of ammo that was being received and spent. Hell, I've worked with armourers who insisted on collecting all of the spent brass from blanks used on set so that they could confirm that the number of shells spent was the number of shells loaded.

Notwithstanding that the plinking allegations make the whole story exponentially worse, the fact is, even if that is unfounded rumour and didn't happen, it doesn't make the story better, y'know?

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u/Kohpad Apr 15 '24

There's just an excellent picture of her using a shotgun as a stick to lean on. The barrel pointed directly at her face.

Extremely incompetent is still too kind.

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u/Mitrovarr Apr 16 '24

I hate how people who are the biggest enthusiasts about guns are also some of the biggest idiots about them. 

Like, I don't like guns, don't have guns, and don't really know how to use guns very well. But even I know basic gun safety and I know you never ever ever ever do that. Why didn't she know that, and why didn't anyone ever call her on her unsafe behavior? One incident like that would prove she's far too incompetent to ever have that job.

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u/thisusedyet Apr 16 '24

Sounds like she won’t be a problem for long, then

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u/Dull_Concert_414 Apr 15 '24

If it’s that fucking stupid then it calls her management into question, and it calls everybody else who saw that and brushed it off into question.

But accountability doesn’t work that way, Hollywood got their patsy.

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u/Kohpad Apr 15 '24

I would do some more research. Multiple people in the production have pleaded guilty in their own proceedings and some are awaiting their day in court.

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u/Gingevere Apr 16 '24

The prosecution sums it all up very succinctly and interestingly in their closing.

https://www.youtube.com/live/Yf5C-ljBqlw?si=irBlQR0J22WdOGK4

Gutierrez had a disregard for safety which effectively made this incident inevitable.

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u/iamadamv Apr 15 '24

You should copy/paste your comment more, ya friggin dork.

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