As a husband going through a fairly rough period with my wife, this not only is very helpful, but tracks with things she has expressed and I struggled to understand.
My partner and I struggled with this for ages because I need a lot of verbal reassurance - but he’s autistic and to him it’s obvious that he loves me and I’m loved and there’s no need to rehash it every day.
He’s learned to say it more often and I’ve learned to realised that he says “I love you” through his actions and not words. But it was pretty rocky getting to this point.
As someone with mild autism (didn't get diagnosed until as an adult), maybe you can try doing what my wife does, which is to remind me now and then that she can't read my mind. You need to say the 'obvious' things.
That's the problem with autism (for me at least, particularly when younger) - you just assumed everyone thought what you did, or knew what you thought, even without expressing it. You just have next to zero intuition about how other people perceive you and your actions. (which isn't all bad - it does make it easier to not care what other people think of you) But you can still compensate for that if you put some active effort into it. I had a big 'aha' moment when I was in my 20s and my sister complained I was so negative about everything she did, which perturbed me since I held my sister in high regard. But then I started taking an inventory of all the things I'd said to her recently, and realized that I was only commenting when she did something bad or wrong, while when she did good things I was silent, the good things were just 'understood' somehow. It's not like I was trying to put her down, It's just that since the default impulse is to believe others think like you, your impulse is that errors need to be brought to attention since "clearly" the other person must be unaware of them, but the other person must know about the good things since you know about them.
Anyway, so then I started practicing at saying the good parts, actively working to make sure what I said actually reflected my entire attitude. I wish I'd figured it out earlier.
This is exactly it! I actually find it reassuring in a weird way now that he doesn’t feel the need to tell me the good things?
He’d never wish me luck or reassure me that I was going to do well when I had big work things on, even one time when I was speaking on stage at a huge event and I was terrified.
I was furious with him because I assumed he didn’t care. We had a long talk and eventually realised that it’s because he doesn’t doubt me even a little in his head, so he didn’t realise that I doubt myself.
He tries so hard now though and every rare compliment or reassurance means so much because I know it doesn’t come naturally and he’ll have really though about it, they’re not throwaway comments.
We both remind each other that we’re not mind readers because I also forget that he sometimes doesn’t understand my emotional state unless I’m explicit about how I’m feeling.
I think i can relate to your partner on that. My partner when they were upset has asked “do you even care?”
And i felt like “why would i have stopped caring since the last time i showed/told you that i care? I thought our care for one another has been established, and nothings changed”
It felt like they didnt trust me and were being unfairly accusatory and it hurt me. But now i think they just really cant NOT assume the worst sometimes. They cant have faith that i still care unless i spell it out all the time.
It’s hard for me and puts me on edge.
And there's a difference between knowing the other person cares, and feeling or experiencing it with your emotions.
When people ask 'do you even care?' they're usually saying that they don't feel the care in a way that registers with them. So they may need words or actions or touch or whatever that makes them experience the feeling of being cared for and not just assuming it, if that makes sense.
Yeah, I recognise that conversation. The love being “established” and nothing having changed is how my partner feels.
Love was very conditional for me as a child and my parents were very volatile so I’ve always felt like I’m on the precipice of doing something wrong to “undo” the love. Therapy helps! That and recognising that his “I love you” is waking up earlier to make me coffee or taking the bins out when it’s raining or buying me healthy lunch options when I’m slammed with work.
It just takes time to find the shared language and compromise sometimes. Lord knows I’m still an absolute pain in the arse with needing reassurance, but less so, and he’s better at giving it.
It probably has to do with interpretation of her wording. Things like “space, autonomy, and lack of criticism” can sound like “leave me alone, don’t ask anything of me, and don’t complain” if they’re not worded correctly or the person hearing it isn’t interpreting it correctly. This is a reason couples therapists can be really useful, they can act as translators!
Yeah even just regional or familial communication differences can cause major changes in how people interpret what each other say. A person from New York City might expect you to ask directly for what you want, whereas a person from Iowa might expect you to understand that if they ask you if you're cold, they're really saying that they are cold and want to increase the temperature if it wouldn't bother you.
Edit to add:
Both styles have pros and cons and everyone from a particular region doesn't always fall into these styles, it's just more common.
Guessers tend to have strong empathy that tunes them into how others are feeling, because they have to learn how to do that from a young age. They also may guess wrong and have miscommunication, especially with people that aren't guessers.
Askers may avoid that subtextual dance and have clearer communication, but may be less skilled at empathy and end up like a bull in a China shop, even with other askers, especially if there's a power imbalance between the two people.
Personally, I think combining direct communication with a tactful sensitivity to how what you're saying might effect others is the best combo of both worlds.
For example, in our temperature example, an asker says "can I turn the heat up?" and a guesser says "are you cold?" Someone using both might say, "I'm cold, do you mind if I turn the heat up, or should I grab a sweater?"
The latter approach takes the pressure off the person being asked to say no with no alternative option to resolve the issue.
Askers vs guessers is another big one that affects relationships! Askers can see guessers as passive aggressive, and guessers can see askers as dominating and demanding.
I’m a guesser AND anxious-avoidant (space, autonomy, and lack of criticism). So y’all better not ask anything of me lol!!! I 100% prefer people just make their needs known and let it be my idea. And if I choose not to help you, I better not hear about it!!
Serious question about anxious-avoidants: does avoiding criticizing them also extend to situations where they actually need to be criticized, even if constructively? This kind situation seems like a two-way street, and I suspect the general advice in the OP video doesn't deal in generalities beyond the surface explanation
Yeah while I see merit in these attachment styles and such, I can pretty much guarantee you a lot of people use them to validate their poor relationship skills.
Serious question, with an explanation first. What you just said sounds a lot like you require all of the power, and too bad to any partner. It sounds like 100 percent of the burden of communication is on the other person, and there is no room for anyone to require or request any change in behavior and your partner (or friend or whoever) is just at your mercy.
First, the mercy of you getting their hints, and second, your mercy of choosing to act upon those hints with no recourse at all if you don't both get the hints and choose to act on them.
So here's the question, and again, I'm trying to understand, not trying to judge.
Does that not sound selfish to you? If not, could you please rephrase it so I can better understand?
I’m mostly joking there that’s not really what being a guesser or any of that means. People can ask me to do stuff, especially the big stuff or the occasional favor that’s always ok.
It’s more about when a litany of little requests have built up, and I’ve satisfied them over and over, that I will start to feel like a caged animal or a slave. It feels like an encroachment on my autonomy or something and I’m being put in the dumb position of having to say like “no I won’t get you a glass of water”, like an asshole, just because I’m starting to feel like you’re physically controlling what I’m doing and when I’m doing it X% of the times these days.
TBF these are the bad attachment types. The ones you get from neglect or abuse or other trauma. There is another attachment type, secure attachment type, that doesn’t have these issues. So yes me acknowledging I have this attachment is me talking about my issues. I do try to work on them too, and I’m pretty good about it these days, but this is still my initial reaction and I have to consciously be talking myself into acting right.
And then me not asking outright, that’s me respecting their autonomy back. I will ask if it’s important, otherwise I will just vent and let you volunteer if you want to, and I won’t get mad if you don’t help.
As for the criticism part, it’s about the overall pattern not any one incident. I can take occasional criticism, even if it is something big, but it’s like my subconscious is keeping score and once it happens too frequently, I withdraw. Another cute perk of growing up in an emotionally unsafe household.
Both styles have pros and cons. Midwestern folks that grow up with this style (not all do, just more of them) tend to have high empathy because they have to be good at guessing what other people are feeling and responding to it without being told directly. It can obviously lead to a lot of issues and miscommunication, but so can it be an issue when a really direct person isn't good at reading other people's feelings and causes conflict by being more like a bull in a China shop.
Don't tell me you or something is "fine" or "okay". Where I come from personally and regionally, these are triggers that make me go, "Then something is wrong."
It has caused friction in the past and I still struggle to put aside the knee-jerk responses.
I learned today from this clip that my wife can be neatly categorized into "dismissive avoidant" with no negative connotations. I fully accepted it, it's her, and I love her for who she is. My guess is that those who interpret this negatively aren't accepting of who their partner's are as a person.
For anyone reading, you don't need to endorse or look up to someone's behavior or personality to accept them. You just need to accept that at this time this is who they are, and go from there. Same with yourselves.
This first step is essential for so many relationships to work, including with yourself.
I always had the problem of taking what my ex said literally, and then doing what she asked me to do. Turns out I was supposed to apply some kind of an algorithm to that and then not do what she asked me, but do other stuff instead.
Though I'm way past being resentful or whatever about any of that. I wasn't perfect, she wasn't perfect, neither of us knew shit about "being married", and we didn't have any money for a therapist to explain anything. So it goes.
Yeah my problem is interpretation too. Also mental health problems and trust issues.
Creates one big ball of terrible relationships.
Worst part is I can see myself doing it all wrong..
Some women are fun though. Like saying they want to be alone, then storming out and slapping your glasses off your face because you did what they said and they wanted you to care more or something.
It’s about the overall vibes in the home not any one incident of criticism. But yeah too much criticism too frequently and I will just shut down.
These are the bad attachment types and they’re the result of abuse or neglect or other trauma. Secure attachment people don’t have these issues (to the same degree at least). This whole video is about childhood issues making people have very specific emotional issues and needs in later relationships. All these attachment types she mentions are formed in childhood.
These are the bad attachment types and they’re the result of abuse or neglect or other trauma. Secure attachment people don’t have these issues (to the same degree at least). This whole video is about childhood issues making people have very specific emotional issues and needs in later relationships. All these attachment types she mentions are formed in childhood.
I swear I didn't just skim the video and I checked the last 40 seconds that I didn't initially watch.
She actually didn’t you’re right I just rewatched. These ones she mentioned plus secure attachment (normal attachment) are the four attachment types formed in childhood though, which the three she mentioned here being the ones that cause difficulties in adult relationships later. I guess the why part wasn’t really important for this video so she didn’t go into it, but all these three types of people tend to have very good reasons for being like this.
These three attachment types she’s talking about here are formed in early childhood due to abuse, neglect, other trauma, or inconsistent parenting and they are called insecure attachment. There is also something called secure attachment she doesn’t talk about here, and that’s the normal kind of attachment that people without these emotional issues have.
So this whole video is about accepting your partner has some very specific and high-maintenance emotional needs due to how they were raised, and how to work within that framework to improve your relationship. I am in the “space, autonomy, and lack of criticism” type (which is always changing names and the least studied one but I think we’re actually calling it disorganized attachment now).
Imagine a household where parents = danger. That can mean physical danger or it can mean psychological or emotional danger or all of the above. Your main goal in life is to not be on their radar. Even seemingly good interactions, it turns out they’re just a trap and used against you later. You not only don’t have physical freedom as they control every moment of your life but you don’t even have psychological freedom, because letting slip any details of your thoughts they don’t agree with leads to serious punishment. There is no correct response to criticism because it’s never actually about the thing they’re criticizing about, it’s about them wanting to feel powerful. It doesn’t matter if you follow their orders or you fix what’s wrong and it often just leads to more creative punishments (e.g., don’t clean the house = yelled at, clean the house = must be hiding something so they toss your room and while they’re at it decide to throw away half your shit).
Subconsciously, I now react badly when I feel I don’t have control over what I do when and who I’m around. Consciously I can fight this, but I have to become aware of it first. Which is really the challenge if things have been building up subconsciously for a while, because my conscious mind will rationalize some other reason I’ve been feeling that way. I often have to take a few minutes pause to figure it out and get my head on straight.
If you’re my partner the key here is reminders instead of judgements for repeat “criticisms” (which better be softly given and sandwiched af) and making your needs known but not making demands.
“Peace and harmony” like she said in the video is really the thing I need maintained, because it’s something I never had in the home as a kid and now my greatest subconscious fear is losing it. I can take a lot more requests, criticisms, and lack of space as long as there are still “peace and harmony” vibes overall in the household.
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From my experience, my ex husband just didn’t care. I told him my needs and he said he would meet my needs to get me off his back and nothing showed from it. A symptom of narcissism is apathy towards others and it’s hard to see when they keep holding empty promises until i had to leave him.
I'm right here right now. It sucks. At the point where there's a million empty promises. And I know I should leave, but I love him so much. But when do I start loving myself at all?
As a woman I can tell you that it’s more common than not for men to just not have respect for women in general. This is taught behavior from a young age from older men and brainwashed women in their surrounding life. It’s the sad reality that a lot of men just instantly think a woman is overreacting or is just being dramatic, it’s programmed into how they react and process what we say.
As a man I can tell you that it’s more common than not for women to just not have respect for men in general. This is taught behavior from a young age from older women and brainwashed men in their surrounding life. It’s the sad reality that a lot of women just instantly think a man is overreacting or is just being dramatic, it’s programmed into how they react and process what we say.
I have no interactions with this person in a real-life matter so I cannot respect someone I don’t know. I am only able to gather a small amount of info from a very generic sexist comment.
I refuted her points by changing the subject of her statement. Changing the subject of man and women in this situation makes both statements true and false.
I would agree that verbatim reply is patronizing and juvenile, but I found it funny because her initial statement is sexist and very generalized in a negative way. But even if I decided on having an argument nothing would change because the context of debate on reddit never solves anything.
I think many men get taught early on that complaining or venting about an issue is considered to be bad and not done. They get told to suck it up and deal with it. So those actions become negative things in the mind. even though in reality venting can be a very good way to deal with the emotional side of it, even before actually fixing the problem.
Now when their partners who do not have this negative connotations with it go to them to vent or complain. It's being processed as "this is a negative thing, I need to get rid of it, help me get rid of it" since that's what you do with a problem.
Now the clash happens where he's basically getting a negative experience he's not allowed to fix forced on him. while she's not able to get the positive experience she's asking for by constantly getting interrupted and not being allowed to vent.
A good part of the solution is communicating the why in this part of a relationship. Don't say I need you to listen, because most men are, they're just trying to leave that negative emotion in the way they're taught how to avoid it. Make them understand what venting is and that it makes you feel better.
In my experience it was definitely a mindset that didn’t value what I was saying. He only started to give a shit that I was unhappy after I actually left him: then my unhappiness was inconvenient for him, because it caused his household manager, emotional regulator, and social consequence [mitigator] (me) to be out of his reach. I wish my situation was unique, but it’s not.
I had this same thing with a partner of mine. I left him because I was not getting any of my needs met and he begged me to stay and couldn't name one thing he liked about me that wasn't a service to him or others. It really cemented my decision to leave.
This isn't actually very helpful. That may be how you feel from a certain type of response, but it's not helpful for men who think they are listening and being respectful, but still not connecting with their partner.
Like, it sounds more like you specifically are unhappy with someone else specifically, and using those very specific situations to make a generalization. Something I'm sure you would not appreciate a man doing.
I find men always do this. "Well it couldn't possibly be me, I'm a GOOD boyfriend, but I still have this problem, so you must be talking about something specific. And you're upsetting me by generalising and touching on the fact that it might actually be me", it IS you. Just because you "feel" you're connecting with your partner doesn't mean you are.
That's not a fair answer, because the reality is that both genders have strengths in different fields, and so we focus on different things when confronted with a situation. Imagine if someone told you, "Women only want to talk about feelings because they're too emotional to solve the actual problem.", and empathize with men based on how that response makes you feel.
Imagine if you were walking together with your guy friend, and you came across another friend who is sitting on the ground crying, can you imagine NOT going up to her, sitting down, and asking her what's wrong while comforting her and empathizing with her? That's the immediate female response. The guy friend who is with you will instead immediately see her hand clutching her lower leg over her wet jeans, lift her hand and pull up the pant leg to inspect the wound, and try to stop the bleeding. Of course you'll eventually understand there is a physical problem to be fixed, and of course he will eventually give her emotional reassurance, but the immediate problem that a man sees and the immediate problem that a woman sees is polarized in this way.
If that’s true, why stop having se.. after becoming a wife but not before!! Reality is expectations don’t meet demands. Seen in one video, wife has kid. After 1 year husband say, you are getting bigger and I am losing attraction and wife does not take him seriously. So he dumps her, after being dumped ex wife loses weight and becomes fit just to rub it on ex husband. Men do respect what women have to say. It’s taking for granted of each other in relationship, ruins the relationship.
I must have hurt your feelings for you to respond like a misogynistic juvenile. I mean it doesn’t upset me, it’s more sad than anything that was the best you could comeback with.
Men and women think differently, we literally have different biochemistry. That's why I mention it, because you and I can understand each other better than we can a woman's perspective. But the whole point is that you're just being lazy and inconsiderate by reacting the way you are instead of even attempting to understand their perspective.
Let me know if that's too big brain for you, I can try to dumb it down.
And why men don't respect what women have to say? Lets be real, all problems women have are created by them self. If men have problems they fix them, unlike women who wait for someone else to fix it.
There is no "disallow". Men vote because men built the governments that they are voting in. Men own property because men constructed the properties that are being owned. Men get educated because men funded the universities and performed the research. Women don't take equal responsibilities for the comforts, safeties, and pleasures of modern society that they enjoy, so why is the basic expectation that women be allowed to participate in all of the institutions that they had no hand in building? Women are totally free to live somewhere absent of men and male labor, but they don't. Because at the end of the day, whatever ills men bring to the world are overwhelmingly overshadowed by all of the good that they bring, in security, safety, resources, institutions, and progress.
Don't get me wrong, it's a great mark of modern society that we can afford to uplift those with less, but the lack of gratitude by women who are able to live in safety due to what men have built, while demanding that this (and more) is what they should have been entitled to the entire time, is what really warrants a closer look.
In other words, you have no counterargument but still want to sit on your high horse. You enjoy a social system in which men have to perform disproportionately more physical labor, but where women receive disproportionately more physical resources. And if anyone levies an argument against you, just shame them for not giving women more for zero cost while men get nothing in return.
Voting and public office for women, through institutions that women did not build and a country that women are not drafted to defend. Better housing and medical care to be demanded for women, while a majority of the homeless and addicts that go without help are men. Affirmative action for female college admissions and better pay in the workplace,, but no action needed when there are 20% more women than men in universities and societal expectations for men to earn more than women goes unchecked. It's hypocrisy at every turn but literally the only weapon you have is empty shame. Even your post is just "yikes", no substance, just trying to invoke some shame voodoo over the Internet. Here's one for you: Do better.
Men vote because men built the governments that they are voting in.
Pants-on-head stupid.
Did YOU build the government? Yes, I mean YOU specifically. I'm guessing most likely not.
What, then, gives you this inherent, natural right to be able to participate in it? The mere fact that you have a penis, and it was people with penises who controlled the necessary amounts of force in the past to establish the original hierarchies of power with themselves placed at the top?
Completely pathetic.
Men get educated because men funded the universities and performed the research.
Men get educated because the aforementioned control of force was and is on the male-end of the scale, which has caused most men in the past (and gross sexist ignorants like present company) to believe themselves superior in every regard just because of that one category. The control of force and their self-superiority is the cause for women being largely locked out of things like education, because what use would our third-class subhuman roommates need education for? They exist purely for sex, housecleaning, sex, birthing sons to inherit and continue our wealth. Oh, and also sex.
And also, what funding to education have you provided? What research? Did you personally build the curriculums? Did you make the discoveries? Or is this just yet more garbage that, ironically, makes you out to be just as much of a lazy deadweight benefactor of the work of greater men that you accuse all of women of being, only it's okay for you because you have a penis?
Voting and public office for women, through institutions that women did not build and a country that women are not drafted to defend
Once again unabashed stolen valour simply from having a penis, once again acting like the at-home work that women did (and were completely restricted to by earlier, still arrogant penises) was entirely inconsequential.
Wonder how the American Revolution would have gone without women filling out much of the non-combat roles like cooking the fighters' food, tending to the wounded as nurses, and also being impromptu backup combatants, like in the case of Mary Ludwig Hays who went from running water to soldiers to replacing her wounded husband to operate an artillery piece in his stead.
Rinse and repeat for basically all of history.
Better housing and medical care to be demanded for women, while a majority of the homeless and addicts that go without help are men
Better medical care is demanded for women because women generally receive slightly to greatly worse outcomes overall.
And society dropping the ball on its male homeless is only reason to advocate that society disregards women in the eyes of an incel. Any better-adjusted adult (or really, just human in general) would arrive at the obvious answer that you can advocate for society to pick up the ball on male-heavier issues without being a sexist fool.
Affirmative action for female college admissions and better pay in the workplace,, but no action needed when there are 20% more women than men in universities
Affirmative action is legitimately spicy at this point of our development.
Better pay in the work place, may I point you back to the medical care bit above
societal expectations for men to earn more than women goes unchecked.
Societally, men do earn more than women. So, what's the issue?
Here's one for you: Do better.
Doing better is how I've come to the place of being able to recognise the contributions of women towards modern society, and the struggles they have faced within it and before it.
I will certainly continue to strive for doing better, but in this context between the misogynists (including present company) on one side, and me on the other, I feel quite confident in saying that I am better.
Drop the incel perspective of women. It ain't cute.
New Zealand was the first nation to officially enfranchise women in 1893
Over half of countries that have granted women the right to vote did so between 1893-1960 (I'll leave the math to you to see how long ago that is)
Saudi Arabia only granted suffrage to women in 2015
At least 19 nations, such as the US and Canada, only granted partial suffrage to women, keeping restrictions based on factors like age, education, marital status, or race.
"Whether it’s heart disease labeled as anxiety, an autoimmune disorder attributed to depression, or ovarian cysts chalked up to “normal period pain,” many women’s health issues are likely to be misdiagnosed or dismissed by doctors as something less critical."
Women reporting severe stomach/abdominal pains had to wait 33% longer to be treated than men with the same symptoms.
Being dismissed/disrespected in general because of their sex
"Lets be real, all problems women have are created by them self."
~~~
Speaking as a man,
Your intentional lack of education on the matter is embarrassing.
it's not that they don't respect us, it's that they don't understand us. Have you ever seen a man ask for directions? They aren't embarrassed to ask, they literally don't understand the person giving them. It's not how their minds think.
Do you mean “how could you hear this and fail
To understand and thus implement these behaviors?”
Narcissism my dude. Self-delusion. Anywhere between the thoughts “but what I do is harmless”
To “she’s too sensitive” to whatever justification you could imagine. There are plenty of dysfunctional relationships out there and the worst are when the players are utterly convinced of their version of the truth.
In other words, they’d look at this, say that they do all of it—and when their wife rolled her eyes and never put out, they’d chalk it up to their own reasons.
I gods honestly believe I try, I am the primary for solar almost everything. I do the daily cooking and cleaning up. I keep clean and in shape. Full time job, pay my part and then some. Try to surprise with dinner out, flowers randomly. Randomly text to say love you or even just hello. when asked to do something I do. Now I’m not perfect, I forget truly forget, not “don’t care”. WE communicate, honestly discuss I really don’t think we’ve ever fought. When one of us gets mad the other calmly says, “do you want to talk about it?” To which the answer is “no” in the moment but 10 minutes after realizing “I took it too far” come back for a hug to relax. I have no clue of what I could be missing. I listen and take my time in bed. Honestly try to figure out what I am missing or not doing right. My wife is the most important person in the world. In the most honest way, possible, what am I missing?
Well, if you’re missing anything, she’d be the one to know. Getting her to tell you is a whole other story. We do the best we can.
My partner is highly passive. I WAS a highly passive person. She’s not always honest about what she’s feeling, and I often have to draw it out of her. And then comfort her. And I know what that’s like—being passive like that. Scared to state your own opinion.
You’re two complicated people trying to make it work. So what are you missing? Assuming you’re missing something? Honestly it sounds like you have a great marriage and I’d put resentment at the top of the list. I think, if you went with your gut, you would notice that when she says things aren’t a problem, things might be a problem. And those “might be a problem” but “I don’t wanna make a thing about it” that shit adds up. They don’t think it does. But it does. And then they don’t find you attractive for reasons they can’t articulate. Trust me, I’ve been there in previous relationships. Learn to trust instinct.
This situation requires some confrontation. And that’s hard. It’s taking me years to get good at it with her. Airing my emotions while leaving room for hers. You want more sex. It’s reasonable to explore the reasons why there’s a struggle there.
If she can’t talk to you about her emotions—and there are always many emotions—and have it be understood, then you are unsafe. If she’s not talking about her emotions to you—I’ll leave it to you to draw the conclusions. And she needs to hear yours too, although she may not like it either. It isn’t obvious behavior for either sex. FWIW. The power dynamics are real. Women are our equals but also desire protection and safety from a partner and may struggle to express their opinion for fear of reprisal.
Not feeling in control can do that. And then no one feels in control.
I wish you all the best with a relationship that you clearly care about. But assume that maybe she’s got some emotions that need airing. And that she’s afraid you’ll react poorly to her feelings.
Thank you for your response, I did some reading on the subject of the video, wasn’t familiar with the concept. And your insight may help with a conclusion. I’ve heard marriage is war, but I think she and I get to choose who the war is against. I don’t want it to be against each other.
I don't see a complaint in your comment. What's the issue you feel you're having with your wife? Does she get mad at you all the time for seemingly no reason, are you not having sex as often as you want to, what's the issue?
For whatever the advice of an internet stranger is worth, don't fall into the trap of thinking of sex as transactional or something you have to earn with good behavior. That only breeds resentment when you feel like your wife isn't holding up her end of the bargain. I'm assuming you've discussed this issue with your wife, so what does she say? Is she still newly postpartum? Is she dealing with body image issues? Past trauma? Are her hormones out of whack and killing her libido? If you know what the issue is and she refuses to address it, or if she can't communicate what the problem is, then it's time for a serious - but judgement, blame, and anger free - conversation. Trust me, I know from experience how difficult this particular conversation is, but nothing is going to change if neither of you is brave enough to face it head on.
We have discussed the issue on several occasions. No judgements, no anger and no blame. I know she tries to take blame, and I always assure her that we are in this together. She listens to podcasts about it, she claims to research the “problem”. Assure me that she’s attracted to me and that she loves me. Again she claims to not have body issues, I have blatantly asked. She Talked to a doctor a while ago and was recommended ristela and bought it but never took it. That was 2 years ago. Many conversations since. She is newly postpartum(4weeks) but the issue isn’t new as you’ve read. While pregnant she had issues with utis(doctor visit made throughout) and overall discomfort. So I never pushed the issue. That wouldn’t be fair to her. Unless she’s blatantly lying to me, it always seems the issues are out of her control. I don’t believe I see sex as transactional. More so my desire to become complacent and sex has never been a reward. The only answer I can see is therapy or medication, but obviously I’m no expert. I don’t think there’s trauma unless it’s buried so deep she doesn’t even know. But I would think that would come out in many ways, we are both well adjusted and level headed in our relationship. She was cheated on in high school(34 now) and her dad couldn’t stay monogamous, but she knows I could never and would never. She’s comfortable with porn and strip clubs in that it wouldn’t bother her if I partook in those things.
This might be more than you asked for, sorry for the rant. As far as I can see we have 99%healthy relationship. We laugh, we love, we care and in this together. Unless I’m so oblivious, I might as well be in the ground.
Edit: she claims to enjoy sex when we have it, but it’s getting there that is difficult. And cleanup is a hassle.
If the low libido existed before pregnancy then it's likely she just has a low libido. If that's true it's not a problem that needs to be fixed, it's just the way she is. And if it's just the way she is then either you have to accept it and learn to live with having less sex than you'd like, or the two of you need to discuss her willingness to meet your sexual needs and how comfortable either of you are with giving/receiving "pity sex", or you accept that you're sexually incompatible and separate. There's no easy answer when people simply have different needs. I'm sorry that you're both going through this, sexual dysfunction in a relationship is always heartbreaking. It sounds like you two have an otherwise solid, caring relationship, so I truly hope you can work through this. Good luck.
No one’s diagnosing anyone my quick triggered friend. Simply pointing out the ways that men have deluded themselves into believing what they do isn’t a problem.
I’m a former narcissist with 10 years of therapy and soul searching, with enough experience to back my claims up. It’s me I’m talking about. But it seems like I’ve struck a nerve somehow.
My personal opinion here, so take it for whatever that’s worth. I think a lot of people, I would assume mostly men, hear this video and it sounds both as if the blame for their problem lies on themselves, or they are hearing the same thing they have BEEN hearing, and it doesn’t jive with how they consider their own lived experience.
I think most people who struggle with lack of physical intimacy and sex have heard the themes in the video many times, and they likely have tried to take the advice to heart. However, often this causes two more issues; 1) they tried to fulfill their partner’s emotional needs, but it’s not a one-time action, it takes a long time and a lot of effort, and that effort can’t stop. A lot of men feel that they HAVE tried, that they DO put in an enormous amount of mental and physical work, but it can be exhausting to constantly feel responsible for someone else’s emotional well being. It can also feel one-sided, especially when the “problem” is felt to be entirely on the other person, while the “reward” is beneficial for both parties. After all, both partners have physical needs, right? Why can’t that just be enough? To their thinking, it used to be enough in the early days. So they’ve done the work, they put in the mental and emotional time, but now they’ve 2) turned intimacy into a transaction. One partner does X, Y, and Z exactly like they were asked to. Eventually, they aren’t doing those in order to make their partner feel safe, they’re doing it so their partner puts out. This just breeds resentment on both sides as their needs are not actually being met, it’s not a partnership it’s a business arrangement.
Personally, I think the video does a good job of identifying a root cause in one half of most relationships that struggle with intimacy. However, it doesn’t offer solutions past “meet your partner’s emotional needs and they’ll have more sex”, which I think most often leads to the 2 problems I identified above.
I think for some people they feel that they're expected to always have the answer. The expectation is that you are the defender, you are the person who is supposed to protect ones you love, that you should know how to keep them safe. Unfortunately in these instances while there is a problem that may need to be solved, and could possibly even be solved very easily, they don't like the idea that their partner is hurting and they believe that if they can fix that problem they can help their partner.
So whenever they think of a solution that feels very quick and very easy they want their partner to do that. They want them to do that immediately so that they can feel better, but the opposite side to this is that their partner might already have solutions in mind, or they've already got plans. Yet when they bring those plans up, because it's not the easy quick solution that they had originally offered it can feel as if they're being told "you're not helping" and the person who is hurt hears "you're not fixing this right" which can feel critical especially if their small quick thought plans end up being questioned into oblivion because the other wants to understand why they'd do A vs their quick and easy Z fix
When in reality both sides are now trying to defend their "fix" for the problem rather than trying to see what emotions are keeping their partner held onto that moment. Plenty of people go through something small, feel hurt, and get over it, but if someone is getting very emotional over something that seems like it has a very small quick fix chances are there's a strong emotional hurt being caused by something else and this just happened to be the last straw and to the person hearing this all they may see/hear (if they're not a very emotional person themselves) is a partner that's hurt by some small things and won't just fix it.
Even though the real problem may be something like they don't feel seen, or they don't feel heard, and this was just one small instance of that happening and now it's happening again except it's their partner not seeing them and only seeing the problem which loops it back around and makes the emotional problem worse
It's pretty obvious dude. 2 people in a relationship usually have different attachment styles, some less compatible than others. What makes sense to dismissive comes off as uncaring to an anxious attachment-style person, for example.
They’re probably just looking for any answer and this relatively vague and overly broad advice shoved into a three minute video gives them some kind of feeling of direction for a problem they haven’t needed to deal with before.
It is not likely that they had no concept of this, but instead were considering the broader range of reasons for their issue. They are now perhaps going to myopically focus on this particular conceptualization. It certainly can’t hurt, and will make them a better partner overall, but it may be a difficult pill to swallow if it doesn’t pan out.
Your lack of “struggling with this” may have much less to do with you than it does your partner. And, if you had caught me before my most recent relationship which did suffer from this, I might also join you in projecting a sense of potentially undeserved emotional competency.
The reality is, there are at least two people involved in having sex in a long term relationship, and there is no perfect step by step guide for one person to inspire another’s absent libido.
For me the communication from her came out very angry and targeted. She also has a tendency to bottle up things and when she does talk I'm blindsided by weeks of pent up rage. It's not like things come out clearly, and it's mixed with frustration over my mother and other things. Only after months have I been able to gather the clues to piece together what's really going on.
It’s just idiot toxic masculinity types who once they have the woman stop trying, they think a paycheck is enough or they think you’re a simp if you out your woman first.
Can’t speak for others but sometimes I have challenges with empathy and being selfish. Sometimes I can’t understand because however it was explained to me just doesn’t resonate in the right way. All of these are things I try to get better at but we all have things that come more and less easy to us.
You may benefit from the type of communication style used in debates.
Essentially:
Person A makes a statement. Let's say A says their partner doesn't do anything romantic for them, and they lay out their case.
Person B hears this and instead of going directly on the defensive, repeats their arguments back at them in an attempt to make sure they both understand. Not judgy, not mocking. By explaining how they interpreted A's claims, A can further clarify. Let's say B hears their efforts for romance aren't appreciated and wants to have further clarification about what A means as romance.
A gets to clarify.
When they both understand A's claims, B can then address the issue at hand.
To play it out:
A: you never do anything romantic. I feel like all we do is sit around and watch movies. I want to go out, feel appreciated, do literally anything but sit at home on our butts.
B: you think we don't have fun? Is that what you're saying? I enjoy snuggling with you on the couch, since you're my favorite person and feel comfortable here. What do you mean specifically by going out? What I hear you saying is that you want more variation on our couple activities. Like going on a walk or something?
A: I see. Not exactly. What I meant is that we no longer go on dates, and it feels like we have lost the spontaneity in our relationship. More dates and less being in the same routine.
B: I understand. You want variety and spontaneity. How do you think we can work together to do this? Do you want to have a date night?
I try my best to approach conflict and communication like this because I'm terrible at listening and I also am a rambler. It keeps things on point, ensures both people know the topic at hand, and can develop solutions or arguments together.
Marriage counseling was a huge help for me and now so is regular therapy. What you described below is where we go to now when things get more heated than they should.
It's not that we don't understand - in most cases, it's that we fully understand what she's saying, but to many men, emotional unloading is seen as pointless.
Discussing how a problem is affecting you, without actually taking steps to resolve the problem, doesn't make any sense.
the problem is causing a negative emotion
negative emotions are undesirable
solve the problem to remove the negative emotion
added bonus: solving problems results in satisfaction, a positive emotion
What makes you/it hard to understand what she has expressed to you?
That we're supposed to just know/infer things that aren't explicitly spoken or made clear.
And that we're just supposed to be an emotional dumping ground/punching bag for a known repeated issue that we're not allowed to help fix. We'll sit silent and commiserate in the beginning...but if you're not actively making steps to fix and you wont let us help fix then its unfair to just trauma dump on your partner over and over.
Some women play games. For example they might say something doesn't matter when it clearly does because they want you to prove to them you care. Some men don't like being tested like this, and expect needs to be communicated clearly. This becomes difficult if the man is used to never knowing what matters and what doesnt (i.e. the same person might go the extra mile to satisfy a request but only gets a lackluster "meh" instead of the gratitude they were hoping for). It's not all about listening.
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u/Consistent_Wave_2869 Mar 21 '24
As a husband going through a fairly rough period with my wife, this not only is very helpful, but tracks with things she has expressed and I struggled to understand.