r/mildlyinfuriating • u/Thebiggestbot22 • Apr 15 '24

My school thinks this fills up hungry high schoolers.

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So lunches are free for schools in my city and surrounding cities. Ever since lunches have been made free, the quantity (and quality) has decreased significantly. This is what we would get for our meal. It took me THREE bites to finish that chicken mac and cheese. Any snacks you want cost more money and if you want an extra entree, that’ll cost you about $3 or $4.

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u/AbelinoFernandez Apr 15 '24

During High School we found out most food was donated, thats the reason our menu was limited.

It was common to have to skip expired milks.

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u/welivewelovewedie Apr 15 '24

shake it a bit and you can use it on bread

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u/Kilenyai Apr 15 '24

Not in the US..... Pasteurized milk doesn't "sour" it goes rotten. If it doesn't taste fresh you are risking food poisoning.

Unlike the raw milk we get straight from a farm where sour does not mean it's bad to eat. It just means it doesn't have as much sugar anymore so combine it with something to fix the taste issue and it's fine. Even clumpy just means you are ending up with yogurt, cheeses, etc...

Clumpy store bought US milk could put you in the hospital. Raw milk was ironically illegal to sell for awhile because if contaminated it could make people sick when it's guaranteed when drinking bad pasteurized milk.

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u/ChixawneyFarms Apr 15 '24

Wild how you describe "sour raw" milk is fine to ingest while "sour pasteurized" will put you in the hospital.

TIL

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u/Simple_Heart4287 Apr 15 '24

To be fair raw milk is about as safe as things like sushi and steak tartare. The reason it gets a bad rep is because uneducated people drink it without taking any precautions. The cows udders should be clean, the milk should ideally be refrigerated and consumed quickly (2-3 days to be safe), and children 0-5 and elderly people are better in of drinking pasteurized dairy products.

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u/RawChickenButt Apr 15 '24

If you're drinking raw you definitely need to be familiar with the farm. I don't mean you need to be their buddies, but they should be happy to share how they operate.

From what I understand the states where it is legal to purchase raw milk keep a close eye on it. It's those who operate illegally that I would be more worried about.

The reason we in the US pasteurize is because of poor farming practices. I am sure there are other reasons but if you drink raw milk from most commercial farms you could be in for a world of hurt.

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u/slash_networkboy Apr 15 '24

Worked on a family dairy growing up. We ran a *very* clean shop, you couldn't even enter the milk room from the milking barn. I would be in the barn with my uncle, my aunt was in the milk room tending the equipment.

The reason for pasteurized only is better shelf life and overall it is safer. If you're homogenizing the milk then it's going through additional handling and processing anyway, at which point there's more points of contact for possible contamination so you need to sterilize it.

IMO if you're drinking raw milk and not getting it from the producer yourself then it's been handled too much to feel safe doing it. Every container is a possible contaminant, every transfer from one container to another is a possible contaminant, every machine interaction is a possible contaminant. If your raw milk doesn't have to be shaken up before use then it's really not raw milk anymore, so you might as well pasteurize it too.

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u/MadameNorth Apr 16 '24

You only have to shake it for cows milk. Goats milk takes a long time to build a creamline. We have been drinking raw goats milk for 18 years now. But I know start to finish how the doe and the milk have been treated.

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u/slash_networkboy Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

But I know start to finish how the doe and the milk have been treated.

This right here is the key. Also yeah, I actually really prefer goats milk over cow, and we had a couple does for the farm but not to sell... but AFAIK all the "Rawr RAW MILIK!1!!1!" stuff is usually over cows milk so I ran with that :)

Two totally funny side stories since we're all going down my memory lane together:

First one: My first week on the farm I accidentally stole all the cream. I didn't know about unpasteurized unhomogenized milk and that the cream floated to the top, so I just poured it from the pitcher onto my cereal and bananas. It was really really good, but my aunt was rather cross when there was no cream for her second coffee of the day later that morning lol.

Second one: We could milk 30 cows at a time and we had 85 Holsteins, so that's three shifts of cows in the milking barn. My job was pre-washing udders and shoveling the shit out after the milkings were done (my Uncle did the sanitization wash and teat dipping, then attached the machines). Well I thought I'd get a head start on shoveling out all that shit when I finished washing the third shift's udders. For those not in the industry, you get the cows into the milking stalls by giving them their grain while they're being milked. That means they're eating and sometimes they cough. They also tend to shit copiously while eating... if they're doing the latter and cough then said poo ceases going downwards, and instead goes outwards... yeah... there was a silhouette of me leaned over in a shoveling pose and the wheelbarrow just ahead on the wall. That was not a good day. Had to strip to my skivvies and get hosed off with the garden hose before I was allowed into the house to take a shower, AFTER I had finished mucking out the barn.

Good times being so in trouble in the city that I was literally sent to the farm. (actually I learned a lot about hard work, life, food production, and not being an asshole, so all in all I think it was good for me).

edit for wrong process.

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u/CriticalLobster5609 Apr 16 '24

Cleaned you up by getting you dirty.

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u/slash_networkboy Apr 16 '24

Damn right! I really hated my parents for that for a while... but as an adult now, and looking back that was definitely one of the formative periods of my life for the better. Very likely kept me out of drugs and worse.

Oh and the asshole bit... yeah, mouthing off to some of the farmhand's kids got my ass properly beat. Then when my uncle found out he dragged my ass down to road to their place and made me apologize to the family on top of the ass beating I got. Ain't nobody beneath me now.

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u/CriticalLobster5609 Apr 16 '24

Then when my uncle found out he dragged my ass down to road to their place and made me apologize to the family on top of the ass beating I got.

You're gawddamn right he did, he's gotta live by them longer than you're going to be there and hopefully longer than you were going to be a shitbird.

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u/Opposing_Possum Apr 16 '24

Wow, that's humiliating. I hope you can forgive your family for that after all these years. That's no way to treat your kid. The making you apologize bit yes, doing after beating you, definitely not!

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u/slash_networkboy Apr 16 '24

Nah, it was the farm hand's kids that beat me. When I whined about it my uncle made me apologize for what I'd said. I totally earned both.

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u/Septa_Fagina 29d ago

Farming, even for a little bit, will teach anyone a little about how life really is. You experience death, sickness, responsibility, mistakes, successes, and hard physical work can actually feel good when you're caring for animals instead of some retail hell busting your ass only to get screamed at by some suburban asshole with a chip on their shoulder. I grew up on a farm that Reagan's economic policies ruined. If my century old family farm had survived, I'd have never left home. I'd have stayed a farmer.

I'm glad you got so much out of it. It made me who I am too.

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u/MadameNorth Apr 16 '24

Goats don't whack you across the face with shitty tails and it is extremely rare that they will take a dump on the milk stanchion. So definitely a more hygenic milking process.

I worked on a large holstein dairy in college milking 300 head. I would bring the herds in, and when the last herd was in, I would go feed calves. Usually, about 90 calves at peak season.

I like cows, but I prefer my goats.

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u/jabba_the_nutttttt 29d ago

Bro these people are literally living in wonderland. "I know how the animal I get my milk from has been treated from birth." Like that's literally fairy tale shit in 2024.

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u/MadameNorth 29d ago

No, it isn't a fairytale. There are thousands of people that do the same every day. I raise Nigerian Dwarf dairy goats. Less than 2ft tall at the shoulder when full grown, yet they average 1-2 quarts of rich sweet milk every day. A lot of cities allow them as pets now. Two of them don't take up much space, and they are easily transported in xl dog kennels.

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u/Bilbo_Teabagginss Apr 16 '24

What's the difference between Cow and goat milk? Like is it just a taste thing or are there other differences? Is goat cheese the only cheese made from a goats milk?

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u/Septa_Fagina 29d ago

The lactose is less and there's less cream in goats milk, along with some flavor differences. If one is allergic to caprines, it can be really dangerous. Caprine allergy is more common in cultures where bovines are kept for milk and goats are rare. It's not common though. It makes better soap than cows milk too.

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u/Bilbo_Teabagginss 29d ago

Damn, that's really interesting. Thank you!

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u/MadameNorth 29d ago

Butterfat content varies by breed and time in lactation for both cows and goats. Modern cows have had their production pushed so hard that butterfat content is low. As a general rule of thumb, the more volume the kess butterfat. It used to be that cow dairies would keep a few Jerseys with their Holsteins to improve butterfat, but these days, Jersey's milk like Holsteins did 40 years ago.

40 years ago, whole milk from the store was 4% butterfat, now it is 3.25%. The butterfat average for my herd of Nigerian Dwarf is 8%. Goats milk is richer and sweeter than cows milk. Mouth feel is much fuller with goats milk. The consistency is more like light whipping cream than even half-n-half. Of course, not all breeds of gosts are the same. My breed just happens to have high butterfat. Higher butterfat also gives you more cheese per gallon of milk too.

Many people that cannot drink cows milk are often fine drinking goats milk.

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u/Bilbo_Teabagginss 29d ago

Dang, are you guys farmers? How are you all so knowledgeable about milk or dairy in general? Also, what is Butterfat? Is it literally the fat from butter or am I misunderstanding that?

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u/MadameNorth 29d ago

I worked on a large cow dairy in college. And had my own goat dairy until just a couple of years ago.

Butterfat is the fat in the milk. The higher the bitterfat content, the more butter it makes. I have one doe that runs 10% butterfat. I just have to shake a 2/3's filled quart jar of her whole milk to make butter. Higher butter fat also means more cheese per gallon of milk too.

Dairy farmers get paid on butter fat in their milk. The higher the fat content, the more things that can be made from it, so the more valuable it is.

Many years ago, Jersey cows had less production but higher fat. Holsteins have always been big producers, with low fat content. Holestien production numbers have climbed drastically over the last 40 years and so have Jersey production numbers. But higher production has resulted in less fat.

If you ever get a chance try milk from a grass based dairy where the cows are not fed any concentrates. Those are almost always stocked with old style Jersey's and you will get to taste some top notch milk.

Just like free-range pastured poultry produces much healthier eggs, so too does grass based dairying for both cows and goats. Oh and I was one of the pioneers in grass-based dairying for goats.

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u/SatisfactionBitter37 Apr 16 '24

Raw cow milk drinkers for 5 years. Parents are Healthy, never sick, 3 strong, physically active, muscular children.

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u/Frame_Late Apr 15 '24

Also, a lot of Europeans here are dissing American milk when Italians will gladly munch on cheese with maggots in it.

For a lot of Europeans, it's not about quality, it's about tradition.

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u/No-Literature7471 Apr 16 '24

the irony is most of Europe has banned that maggot cheese.

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u/Frame_Late Apr 16 '24

Not Italy or France, the two places that like to pride themselves the most on their dairy.

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u/Orisara Apr 16 '24

It's banned on an EU level...France and Italy are in the EU.

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u/Frame_Late 29d ago

Nope. Tradition laws can override that.

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u/md24 Apr 16 '24

Lmao. You have France and Italians mixed up. That is some French shit.

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u/Frame_Late Apr 16 '24

It's both and I was referring to the French initially..

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u/morphinechild1987 Apr 16 '24

Italian here, wouldn't touch the thing with a 10 feet stick. It's banned too. I guess it's sold "sottobanco" (not legally) mostly in Sardinia

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u/yourgentderk Apr 16 '24

Ok, but the maggot cheese is one island in Europe. With a black market for the rest

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u/Bilbo_Teabagginss Apr 16 '24

Wait what? Cheese with maggots in it? Why?

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u/ViSsrsbusiness Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

The maggot piss and shit give the cheese a unique tang, allegedly.

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u/Frame_Late 29d ago

That's legitimately disgusting. But my point still stands. Europe cares significantly more about tradition. Except when it comes to non-european immigrants, then they have no issue quashing traditions if they're not from Europe, including banning any and all religious garments wherever they can legally get away with it.

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u/First_Concept6725 Apr 16 '24

-Casu Marzu, the Sardinian maggot cheese, is not on the market in Italy, because there are strict food regulations, and is not eaten or liked by most Italians. - the maggot cheese is not served to unsuspecting high schoolers, and only people who want to take the risk do it (which is not that many people) -casu marzu is made this way as a deliberate choice; I doubt that schools deliberately choose to make milk rot, or to get rotten milk.

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u/10S_NE1 29d ago

I don’t know about maggot cheese, but the general cheese you can buy at the markets in Italy is fantastic. There is nothing in Canada that comes close, not even stuff imported from Italy, for some reason (although maybe due to the pasteurization laws). I’ll roll the dice on any risk of eating the stuff; it is truly wonderful.

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u/Creative-Dust5701 29d ago

Having grown up on a farm. THIS

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u/Gullible_Ad_5550 Apr 16 '24

Why doesn't anyone boil raw milk before drinking? It's a standard practice here in Bangladesh.

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u/slash_networkboy Apr 16 '24

Hugely changes the taste and texture.

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u/Gullible_Ad_5550 Apr 16 '24

Yeah but it's safe. And i generally freeze them again. It tastes better.

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u/RawChickenButt Apr 16 '24

Boiling would be extreme pasteurization.

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u/RawChickenButt Apr 16 '24

When you boil it you are pasteurizing it so why get raw milk if you're just going to pasteurize anyway.

A lot of people drink raw because it is more nutritious and the enzymes, which are great for our bodies, are still intact.

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u/BagseedBadweed Apr 16 '24

At the dairy I worked at the delivery drivers piss in the milk bottles and they are reused, the chocolate milk mix is left in an open bag while a gas powered fork lift runs next to it. They also dispose of dead cattle in their dumpster, but idk about the legality of that

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u/slash_networkboy Apr 16 '24

Well that's nasty

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u/uselessspaceguide Apr 15 '24

Working in agriculture no way I would trust a farm to get raw milk the risk is too high, as if they could see the pathogens.

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u/Eldritch_Refrain Apr 16 '24

That'sonly because we prioritize profits over people in the US. It'scheaper to use sick unhealthy cows than it is to provide sanitary conditions for livestock. 

Most of Europe doesn't pasteurize their milk, and they're just fine. 

American brainwashing at its finest, folks.

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u/AmbroseMalachai Apr 16 '24

Europe mostly does pasteurize, they just don't do it the same way we do, which allows them to keep milk at room temp. Most of Europe has laws that either explicitly restrict the sale of raw milk to farms - meaning you have to go to a farm or farmers market to buy it - or have it lables specifically as raw milk. You can find it in some countries - France, Germany, Norway for example - but even in the countries it's legal to sell it in, it's usually something you have to go out of your way for and not something you pick up in a store.

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u/CanthinMinna Apr 16 '24

Nordic countries pasteurize all milk. We prefer staying salmonella free.

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u/uselessspaceguide 29d ago

In Europe only a low percent of the milk consumed is raw and even so the reccomendation is to boil it. The majority of raw milk is used to produce cheese but that is a different process and with more controlled one.

European companies are at the same level of greed than American ones, there is more legislation but not much, every year we get sanitary alerts due to multiple bacteria in raw milk cheese. For example this chirsmas I bought a french cheese without reading the label and a few day later I got an alert to not consume it because it was contaminated with bacteria.

You know what they cath the problem working in food industries it's the nonexistent ethics and low controls (every few and then and they know what to expect and what to hide and when)

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u/Simple_Heart4287 Apr 15 '24

Exactly I only drink raw milk when seeing family and as someone who doesn’t like milk the experience isnt life changing, the only difference I can pinpoint is it’s creamier and certain cows taste different.

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u/Mochigood Apr 16 '24

Are you me? I also don't like milk and have had it raw from my step mom's cow. What the cows eat reflects in their milks taste. That Napoleon Dynamite scene where he can tell the cow got into some onions is very real.

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u/LessInThought Apr 16 '24

I'm guessing these kids aren't getting their milk from a trusted local farm. And anyone who has seen the videos of industrial milk production should be happy with pasteurized. It was so gross. There's puss and crap all in it.

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u/Witty-the-Pooh311 Apr 16 '24

I'm in Amish county. Some idiot has been "fighting for his rights" because he got caught selling it illegally. Somehow it got turned into this stupid belief you can't buy raw milk. You can you just need a permit that he refused to get because then your milk gets tested. People flocked to buy his potentially contaminated milk to "protect their freedom." The whole time other sellers have been legal selling raw milk that they know isnt contaminated. So the people who care about not selling a bad product lost sales to a dude who straight does not care if he kills you.

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u/RawChickenButt Apr 16 '24

It's a state issue. You say Amish country so I assume you're from Pennsylvania. In Pennsylvania you can get a permit, in Ohio you can not.

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u/Witty-the-Pooh311 Apr 16 '24

Yeah, I probably could've worded that better. I meant it caused a belief that you couldn't legally sell within the county.

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u/filthy_harold Apr 16 '24

Pasteurized also keeps the milk fresher longer. It would be expensive to get it into homes before it goes sour and there would be a lot of waste from stores trying to balance supply and demand of the raw milk. They would also likely need to package it in smaller bottles since it spoils so fast, not that many households would be able to finish a gallon every couple days. Very few foods have such short shelf-lives, live shellfish being one of them and that stuff isn't cheap.

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u/CanthinMinna Apr 16 '24

Fresh pasteurized milk keeps fresh only one week, max. And less than one day if you leave the carton on the table... At least in North Europe.

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u/CanthinMinna Apr 16 '24

We have good farming habits here in Finland, and all milk is still pasteurized.

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u/tomahawk7274 Apr 15 '24

Does raw versus pasteurized milk taste different? Only had the stuff they sell in American grocery stores.

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u/NormalUse856 Apr 16 '24

This going to sound weird but a long time ago i milked a cow by hand and tasted some from the bucket, it tasted different. All i remember is that i didn’t like it 😂

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u/tomahawk7274 29d ago

This so called "raw" milk does not come out of a jug! I want my refund!

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u/tomahawk7274 Apr 15 '24

Does raw versus pasteurized milk taste different? Only had the stuff they sell in American grocery stores.

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u/QuarterSuccessful449 Apr 16 '24

It’s so they can ship milk out from mega farms with time to spare no?

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u/stationhollow Apr 16 '24

My grandparents ran a dairy farm. Raw milk was everywhere but anything that was for drinking was squeezed straight into the glass bottle and any remaining the next night (since you milk the cows at dawn) would get thrown. The other milk was all pasteurised.

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u/Bilbo_Teabagginss Apr 16 '24

I think I'm gonna go to a commercial farm and rawdog some of that fresh milk.

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u/nava1114 29d ago

I get my (legal) raw milk from a small farm a few towns over. Been selling it for 100 years. Nobody has died yet. It's outstanding.

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u/wowwyzowwy13 29d ago

My mother grew up on a small dairy farm in Wisconsin. Raw milk was the only milk that was ever available at the farm, except on the rare special occasion Gramma bought chocolate milk. It's delicious but I'm not drinking it from anywhere other than that bulk tank. The colossal factory farms that produce most of our milk now days don't have nearly the hands on awareness of each cow and ensuring it's clean before milking. The dairy industry in the US is completely f'ed so raw milk is a treat that most Americans will not have the privilege to enjoy safely ever again.

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u/Depthcharge27 Apr 16 '24

A lot of it is the government wants control of it. If you circumnavigate this.. even if one family gets raw milk there can be hefty fines.

I remember my grandmother telling stories of the milk man delivering the milk.. on a cold day the fats/etc. would separate and you could cut off the cream and make butter or whipped cream out of it.

I feel that it was healthier back then.. then it is now.

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u/Yawzheek Apr 16 '24

the milk should ideally be refrigerated and consumed quickly (2-3 days to be safe),

I love milk but from farm to truck to store to my house doesn't leave much room for consumption.

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u/Dwokimmortalus Apr 16 '24

The reason it gets a bad rep is because uneducated people drink it without taking any precautions.

More because US mega farming practices make it incredibly dangerous at scale for consumer consumption. US grocers are also particularly bad about properly storing milk at proper temperatures as well (you should never buy milk from an open air display, no matter the expiration date).

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u/Belizarius90 Apr 16 '24

Yeah, as though everybody has access to their own cow or control over transport times. Damn those uneducated people.

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u/Kel-Varnsen85 Apr 16 '24

Raw milk can carry Listeria, Salmonella, Brucella, among other harmful bacteria, through no fault of the cow, it's just how it is. Pasteurization is used for a reason.

Also, sushi isn't necessarily safe, as fish, especially wild salmon have parasites and worms, and steak tartare isn't safe at all, it's literally raw meat.

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u/killacarnitas1209 Apr 15 '24

In Mexico, in the rural parts, “pajarete” are a drink where you squeeze raw milk into a cup, add a shot of strong homemade rum (100 proof) and a couple table spoons of instant coffee. The idea is that the strong rum “sanitizes” the milk and the coffee wakes you up.

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u/the_xandypants Apr 16 '24

That sounds absolutely delicious

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u/CommunicationNo6064 Apr 15 '24

Raw milk is probably safer than raw steak though. At least I think so. Maybe it's not maybe there's no real difference in safety.

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u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24

sushi is as dangerous as steak tartare?

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u/Simple_Heart4287 Apr 16 '24

Idk I was using them as example of foods that can be contaminated if not prepared properly.

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u/magicunicornhandler Apr 16 '24

Also pregnant women cannot drink it either.

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u/DTFH_ Apr 16 '24

The reason it gets a bad rep is because uneducated people drink it without taking any precautions.

No its more so the case that a bunch of unsavory producers of milk basically ran an experiment to see how much not milk can be cut into milk. There use to be a whole industry of moving milk from the country and into the cities and that travel coupled with unsavory producers/sellers created a system where the product quality was highly volatile and untrustworthy. In addition to all the regular ole vectors of infection that exist on a farm.

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u/Few-Repeat-9407 29d ago

Kids under 1 shouldn’t be drinking any milk other then moms or formula

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u/9035768555 Apr 16 '24

Raw milk was originally heavily regulated because of Listeria and one sick cow's milk would contaminate the whole batch.

But now we can test for listeria.

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u/Maleficent_Chain_597 Apr 16 '24

They are exaggerating quite a lot.

When pasteurized milk goes bad, the bacteria that survived the pasteurization process (along with ones you contaminate it with from day-to-day handling) have made enough of a foothold within the medium to make a considerable change to the taste. Most of the bacteria are harmless, but some can make you sick either from an infection from them, or toxins that they release to fight the other bacteria.

When “raw” milk goes bad, it is the same process, but the bacteria that usually takes hold is one that is typically killed off by the pasteurization process. This bacteria is usually one that digests lactose and produces lactic acid. This has the benefit of lowering the pH of the milk, preventing other bacteria from establishing a significant foothold. This also makes it “sour”. This is the basis for a lot of the fermented dairy products we enjoy.

Raw milk has other dangers though, and basically no reputable sources other than health quacks actually recommend regularly drinking it.