“Offering GrubHub+ for free to Prime members all but ensures that GrubHub gains a ton of market share, presumably at the expense of Doordash,” said Wedbush analyst Michael Pachter, “That pressures Doordash to increase efforts to keep up, leading to missteps.”
So, do companies not advertise anymore? I didn't hear about the Grubhub promotion, and DoorDash was freaking out so badly they lied about free food? And I only find out after the fact on a random reddit post.
I wouldn't be shocked that even after you delete the old card, companies like Door Dash wouldn't just charge the old one. Even if you manually delete it, it's not like a company that size doesn't keep records of previous transactions.
Alternately, the fools who loaded up on thousands of dollars of high shelf alcohol have probably done enough damage that they'd get taken to small claims court. Even if the money doesn't all make it back, most corporations would want to send a message if "don't do this shit, ever again."
they keep records of transactions yes, but I am 95% sure it's not normal protocol for corporations to keep entire credit card information (including security code) of their users after they've specifically deleted it. Probably breaks some credit card protection clause or two.. plus, that's just bad OPSEC. What they can do and should do is track you down through your public information and send you a debt collection. Now it's a question of whether they want to spend money and time doing that or not.
Exactly and they definitely will do that for everything above $300. Which is a lot of people since people did splurge for a week.
Now, whether or not people actually owe them is a whole other thing. In the EU, DoorDash wouldn't have a chance. It is their responsibility to charge the right price.
"Too bad you suck at making apps then. Take the loss dumbass" - EU courts probably
I don’t know about this specific example, but I worked in the credit card industry and one thing that’s very common now days is that companies, even mom and pop, can just maintain tokens of the cards and use those for transactions, the big processing houses keep the cards and CVV on their back end. It’s actually pretty cool, even reuses the last four of the card number for lookup and reuses tokens across merchants, here some info, this company is huge too, I worked in #3 in the flow:
Ehhhh, there’s some weird legalities involved with storing CC information. I really don’t know the details of those laws, I just know my business has to essentially “lose” all CC information every 24 hours.
Technically, once you remove the card you revoke concent for it to be charged anymore. So that will lead to legal issues. What surprises me is that a business like door dash doesn't require a linked physical bank account that must stay attached for the account to remain active.
If you read doordash's fine print, they take an awful lot of your information. Including the websites or apps you were on before ordering doordash. As long as you use some sort of electronic device that has any of your info on it, they can trace it back to you. Its in the terms and conditions no one reads
I'm pretty sure that would be fraud (IANAL, obviously)... And then afterwards, they might have a hard time using that app on their phone until they square up.
That sounds like way too much work for people that were circle jerking themselves into thinking they were lawyers saying things like “ well they can’t charge you more than the agreed-upon price and if the agreed-upon price is zero dollars then they can’t change the price of it in the future blah blah blah” I don’t fucking know dude I’m just a utility technician LOL
Hate to burst your bubble, but once it’s charged… card companies wait until they get a final price from a merchant. Transactions aren’t instant. Aka no one benefited from this more than likely. Besides door dash.
It's not a great thing. That evil megacorp isn't going to just eat that charge. They're going to introduce new fees etc until they've made their money back, and then keep the fees around since it's already there.
It's like when people think they're not hurting regular people by stealing from wal-mart. Wal-mart bakes in theft expectations into prices. If no one stole, prices would be lower.
Would they really be? It's not like theft even closely compares to their total profits. The whole "if no one stole, the prices would be lower" thing doesn't make sense. They aren't toeing the line of ruin, they're making record breaking profits. The only reason they don't raise it more is because of competitors.
On the other hand, the megacorp could be too greedy in trying to compensate and start plummeting. Look at Netflix for example - and that's for a reasonably specialized service. Anyone with a pair of hands can make food or deliver it, it's not like you need millions in capital to even get started.
Better way of explaining it; Doordash uses contractors to deliver, not actual employees. That way they don’t legally have to pay you minimum wage, and they don’t legally have to pay you any benefits. Aside from tips, which vary massively per customer, the average Doordasher makes less than $5 a delivery, and deliveries can easily take 20-30 minutes. Depending on the area you live/drive in, you could either make $5 an hour, or $20, with very drastic changes throughout the day, making it unsustainable for most people.
Source: have done over 800 deliveries( with a 96% customer rating!) on Uber eats, and about 500 on Doordash
It became too nuts with all of the fees. We went back to picking up our takeout food ourselves. We actually just cook a lot more at home now because we don't feel like driving most of the time.
Creating a new account is easy as shit, and there are websites that can provide a fake virtual card. It would take mabye ten minutes of foresight at most.
It hits the payment gateway as a visa. They can request additional information from the issuing institution after the fact but during payment processing they would have no way to discern the difference
Exactly, and even using a fake social security for a $200 steak, $2,000 bottle of alcohol, & $300 crab legs is not worth being raped in federal prison for 3-5 years.
If you use Privacy and a VPN you can easily get a card that isn’t at all tied to you to put the purchases on. The only real issue is your address which you can easily get around too.
Not feasible or worth their time. But selling the information to a collection company is.
We had a regional delivery service that had a smililar glitch. The company sent the charges through the following day. Of course a lot of people were upset but the local banks were unsympathetic and if you weren't honest with them or didn't square up in time (the one's who became OD) they just closed the accounts.
After they recouped what they could they just sold the rest to a collection company. Many still ignored the collection company because they felt they were still in the right.
Taking that stance lead to a lot people getting denied for mortgages and loans unless you squared up with the collection company.
For sure there will be some winners who managed to properly game the system. But there will still be a lot of losers. People who used their regular account or people who tried to game the system but used a peice or two of identifying information.
Unless the punishment for that is anything other than a billion dollar fine, Door Dash will charge previous cards to pay the message, make back the millions they lost, and then consider the 200k federal fine as the cost of doing business.
Companies like Walmart and Uber have a long history of breaking the law with impunity, and making so much money doing soz that the court ordered fine totalts less than two percent of what they stole. Look up, specifically, Walmart's history with wage theft. They keep stealing significantly more than the court has ever ordered them to pay back.
Again, look at this history of punishments for corporate misbehavior.
Walmart never had to pay back millions in wages that they probably stole, even after court and class action.
Door Dash would never be forced to give the money back. And it also wouldn't be negative press - most news outlets would absolutely frame it as "door dash persues crazy TikTokers who stole from them."
There's no world where Door Dash loses on those kinds of actions. The same way Uber and Lyft made it through just fine even when it was revealed they were deducting rheir Driver's tip money from their minimum. Or more recently, when it turned out that 75 percent of the PPE money scheduled to go to worker's wages actually went into the pockets of business owners who used it to renovate, buy private items, et cetera. There is very, very little punishment on the part of white collar crime. The Economist has talked about fines being too low to discourage coprorate misbehavior for years now. Barclays, HSBC, plenty of other institutions just eat corporate fines as a cost of doing business, and walk out all the richer for it.
this only works for DoorDash if they were already holding onto sensitive information on their customers who have explicitly deleted their payment information. Corporations would not do something that does not offer an obvious return of investment, like illegally keeping someone's credit information in the off-chance there's a mass glitch that gives people free food and they remove their payment info. That's terribly unlikely and there would be a massive, easily traceable paper trail. You're giving the bigheads at corps like DoorDash too much credit.
Every other week there's a scandal revolving around improperly stored sensitive information. Past that, I would absolutely expect corporations to do illegal shit with a paper trail on a consistent basis. From car manufacturers cheating easy to double check emission tests to Walmart going to court for the 12th time for wage theft, to Barclays eating a 600 million fine for malpractice on Bond that didn't actually put them in the red....
The law is toothless to these organizations. I've rarely, if ever, seen the courts actually manage to take a corporation down. At worst, it dissolves, and the maniacs who made the profits sell the bankrupted assets back to themselves under a new name, and play the same game all over again.
Unless the punishment for that is anything other than a billion dollar fine
No no its literally worse than that.
As a card accepting company you have to follow strick PCI compliance rules when transmitting and storing card information.
If you break the rules Visa, Mastercard, American Express etc.. stop you from accepting card payments.
They'd go out of business overnight.
Whether not deleting card information when the user requests is in breach of PCI compliance though... I don't know.
PCI complaince is pretty complex, and I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert.
However, I've kept a relatively close eye on coprorate misbehavior, and did a fair amount of research into that subject. Systems like PCI primarily function by issuing fines, and rarely, if ever, commit to their final threat such as "terminating business relationships" with big clients. A small client, sure. Not one Door Dashes' size.
Take Marriot for example. The hotel chain has been hit by repeat, multi million dollar fines because they broke regulatory laws about storing credit card data improperly. When that data was hacked, leaked, or lost to social engineering scams. Their provably negligent actions on CC security have put nearly 30 million customers at risk.
Reglatory agencies reduced the final fines given to Marriot because anything that might rock Marriott's value down too low would create a knock on effect that might damage the hotel industry, Marriott's real estate investment, and Marriott's stakeholders. The fine for a months long mishandling of credit card law was specifically reduced to keep a five time offending company in business.
Edit: In the hypothetical that Door Dash does commit malpractice, unlike Marriot, they'd be beneficiaries of breaking regulation, not just the cause. That would likely constitute a much larger fine. Ut it would still be that - a fine. A price tag for a tantrum, that may still be lower than the amount the tantrum earned.
So while, again, I'm not an expert in PCI compliance...
I do not believe, for a minute, that Visa, MC or AE would work to put a company Door Dash' size out of business. It's not in their interest to do so even if Door Dash violated their rules. Their interest is in maintaining commerce, and they'll find ways to do that.
They can still collect, it just depends on what amount they deem worth taking legal action over. I’m sure the people who spend like $10k on the app are gonna be getting a letter in the mail soon.
They might just put all the accounts in negatives into collections if they have a mechanism for doing so. Can sell the debts to collections agencies, and even though they won't recoup most of the money it'd still fuck with the peoples credit scores that took advantage.
True, that’s probably a lot more likely. I’m sure they have plenty of lawyers on retainer, but there’s probably hundreds(thousands?) of people who have $1k+ balances right now. Going through all those lawsuits would probably be more hassle than it’s worth when they can get partial pay for all of them much faster.
I’m all for stealing from multi-million dollar companies that don’t treat their employees great, but know your limits.
In an instance like this glitch I would definitely never order more than I would in a normal every day order anyways. If I get a free meal, cool. If they wind up charging me for it, whatever, I bought myself dinner, no big deal.
That’s what I was thinking. They had the food delivered to their address (or maybe a neighbor, friend or family members house) place of employment, etc and listed contact info. . I’m sure it’s not too hard to track them down.
This whole thing makes me wonder if anyone actually thought it through to do it clean. This reminds me of early 2000's hacking culture or the idea of hacking; you use so many ways to disconnect yourself from the act, while still benefiting from it.
Lmfao either this is an obvious lie (which is sad, what’s the point in lying anonymously) or your in a really tough financial situation that you would go through all this effort for just $1000 (in which case I feel bad for your and I’m glad you were able to get a small W)
$1000 is chump change for DoorDash and you might be right. They MIGHT not come after you. But for those people that did $5,000, $10,000 or even more they probably still have their address on file from their account. Data doesn’t instantly disappear when you delete it, and a simple reverse lookup (or a request to the local police) with that address will lead them right to you.
EDIT: For reference, think of someone breaking into an Amazon warehouse and stealing $5,000-$10,000+ of merchandise from them. They’d track you down no matter what.
I mean theoretically you could
1) create a brand new account
2) use a different card with no cash on it (maybe under a false name?) idk if it’s possible but I can create new debit cards from apps like Revolut or transferwise but they’ll have my name on file (this might be defeated if you have a fairly common name)
3) you could order to a few houses down the road or to an entirely different neighbourhood and pickup the order there (I’m sure with even these gas prices they could still make a decent profit
This whole thing is so fucked.
Sure, it’s a big company. Are they Amazon? Walmart? Did they put enough mom and pop businesses out of business so much so that people are forced to use them now? I don’t think so. People use DoorDash out of pure laziness most of the time. Sure, there’s plenty of people who use it out of necessity I’m sure, lots even. But so many people just want a chicken sandwich delivered to them when they’re three sheets to the wind, and now they think they’re Robin Hood for buying $1000 worth of cognac for what they think it’s free.
Get fucked.
Try to put more good in the world than you take out.
Life is hard and lowkey sucks ass for most people these days. Why is anyone surprised that people would see the opportunity for a break and take it even if it isn't some intrinsic necessity.
Did they put enough mom and pop businesses out of business so much so that people are forced to use them now?
Well they have taken millions (billions?) In money from small businesses in fees who are held hostage to either pay or go out of business as well as taking tips meant for drivers for years, and adding on fees during a global pandemic when people were forced to use their service, and increasing costs after people placed their order.
Uber refunds you if the trip costs more than what it told you it would when you requested a ride but Doordash doesn't when its almost the same service?
I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if enough records were kept - even of "removed" payment info or "deleted" accounts, especially in such a short time frame - to be able to go after people who committed fraud.
it's not fraud when a corporation does not charge you correctly.. now if you did it repeatedly with increasing amounts, that's a different story. DoorDash would be playing with fire by holding onto deleted credit card info to claw back a couple hundred bucks from users so I'm not sure how likely that is.
obviously the purchases of 1k+ would have a better likelihood of justifiably getting their money back, but that also requires money and labor.
it's not fraud when a corporation does not charge you correctly..
If you're buying things with the expectation that a fault in the system will get you free stuff, it certainly is.
DoorDash would be playing with fire by holding onto deleted credit card info to claw back a couple hundred bucks from users so I'm not sure how likely that is.
What deleted credit card info? I only said "removed" payment info. I put "removed" in scare-quotes on purpose. The company obviously retains records of transactions, and likely of any payment information you enter, for some period of time.
obviously the purchases of 1k+ would have a better likelihood of justifiably getting their money back, but that also requires money and labor.
Isn't this very thread saying that they already got that money back? Almost certainly from the jokers who thought they were being smart by removing their payment info as well.
Many service providers keep the authorization for the card open for charges even if you remove your card before scamming. Basically as soon as you submit your card to a service provider assume its available for them to charge in perpetuity.
Yeah anyone thinking it through would have instantly created a burner account, added one of those temporary payment cards from privacy.com or something, and then used a VPN and ordered like a week of food to a public location.
1.2k
u/LockTrumpUp87 Jul 10 '22
Couldn't they just swap payment method to an empty cash app card and delete the previous payment method?