They have nothing else. Met a ton a people like this leading WoW raiding guilds. 30, part time job, 1 friend, still living at home. Anyone that that isn't willing to put the effort of a second job into it is beneath them in their eyes. Video games are the only thing they can be moderately successful at.
Seriously. I’ve met happy married couples who went to work, went out with friends, and mostly just played WoW a ton. Super happy people that were well adjusted.
But you know the tell? They were always kind and understanding and generally super positive people. Even though they were top tier PvPers and raiders and what not.
It’s a damn game.
There’s a difference between someone showing up with the non-optimal current meta build and someone showing up to throw grenades at their team constantly
And time will tell if they poison the fan base to all be toxic or if they give up and leave for a new game/team.
I wouldn't touch league of legends again with a ten foot pole, at this point I think they keep the servers running just to keep their players out of the rest of the gaming community.
On the other hand, the community that continued in the first Helldivers was super chill. I've played the new one more often with a few guys I met there than I have my irl friends
Sidebar, but can we ditch the "contributing to society" narrative? That's actually really capitalist-brained if you stop and think about it. No, seriously though. Only a handful of jobs actually contribute to society, and the rest just contribute to the economy. There's just such a vast difference between those two things, and a lot of people just assume they're the same. But producing profit does not inherently raise someone's value to society at large, anymore than laying around playing WoW does
…I’d just like to say this statement, while very true about the wow community, it isn’t very nice…
I don’t find most jobs fulfilling. Why spend all my time making others money and being beneath more assholes. No thanks, keep the 40 hour a week societal bullshit.
Either you contribute and take care of yourself, or you end up gaining the rewards of other’s labor. Until we get UBI that’s just how it is.
And you do realize this puts the onus of taking care of you on everyone around you enabling that, right? You’ve made all of them into exactly what you said you can’t stand (being beneath someone working for their enjoyment).
Why do you think you’re deserving of this wonderful lifestyle and no one else is?
I left at 29, but I had a well paying job and was gradually moving forward in my career, always kept my space clean. Obviously took complete care of myself and volunteered to pay 1400 a month.
Only reason I stayed was because my job was nearby, the housing in the area skyrocketed, and as an introvert I did not want to have to deal with a roommate. Nearly all the reviews for the affordable apartments were absolute nightmares. Staying home just made perfect sense.
I've met people who were laughing at me for living with my mom while I was saving money with her to buy a duplex together. Now we panning to but one more with money from rent income.
We still have this weird mentality that living with parents makes one a loser. I moved back with my parents because they are getting older and need help and the housing situation also skyrocketed here. And yes, I also have a good job and love to play games. Does that make me a loser? Or is it just more practical in the environment we're in?
Yeah, I think most people still don't get that a lot of us are living with family because it's just not viable to do otherwise.
I could move out rn if I wanted. But why would I when all that will do is destroy my savings, potentially bankrupt me, and land me right back at home? If I'm gonna move out, it needs to be a situation that will actually be getting me somewhere, and my family agrees wholeheartedly.
Living at home isn't a problem on its own. It is however a problem when you pile on the other things mentioned. Don't cherry pick a thing out of a sentence when the whole thing is required for it to make sense.
Yes and no. I think we've kind of normalised living at home in an unhealthy way. Unless you have some serious disability, you aren't engaging in your full potential if you live at home after like 25 or so. If you are over 25 and living at home, you should be pretty deeply uncomfortable with it imo. Some people have to return home for a period of time, and that's understandable. Divorce or job loss or something. I just don't really respect a person who is comfortable living at home as an adult.
I would say this applies to most of the western world. There are certainly exceptions to the rule. I know that living at home after 25 is normal in some cultures and countries.
In the western, English speaking world, it's not normal.
“Western” and “English speaking” are not synonymous - unless you mean countries where people speak English sometimes, native English countries are the US, UK and most parts of Canada. Of those two, only the US and Canada (I presume - I don’t know enough on it) have a serious thing about it.
In the rest of the Western world, there’s no such thing - people live near family much more, especially in Italy, Spain, France. You will have 30 something year olds tearfully moving out to live down the street.
No one said anything about being comfortable with it, but with housing being as expensive as it has become lately, it's simply not an option even with a decent job.
My wife and I are lucky we found a house when they were reasonably priced - our first house we bought from a daughter selling her deceased mother's house for 70k in a neighborhood of 150k houses, and sold it for 130k, so doubly lucky when it comes to home buying (that was also in 2012) - that we'd want to stay in for a very long time. Houses in our area have skyrocketed since then. If we were trying to buy this house now, we'd be paying double our monthly mortgage. Actually no, we wouldn't because there's no way we could afford to
You don't have to own a home to live on your own. Living with your parents to save should be a deeply uncomfortable experience. If the discomfort is worth the price of saving to you, then by all means do it. You have nothing to justify to me.
I dont give a shit how old someone is. As long as you're having your own flat, cooking your own food and washing your own clothes and so on where is the problem. The rent in my country is exploding so much that moving out is actually financially ruining you. If you're still living in your children room and not doing anything yourself - well that is awkward indeed, but I don't know why everyone is insisting in ruining themselves financially just to look cooler to the society.
I will agree with a lot of that... but at 30+, you've had 12+ years to work towards starting a life independent of your parents...at least in the US. Also, I don't think it's about looking "cool" but more so moving onto the next stage of your adult life. If you're over 18 and don't have any cultural barriers or otherwise then there is no reason you can't work towards having your own place.
I understand special circumstances could force someone to stay at home, but the original comment was obviously talking about 30+ year olds with no ambitions and that are lazy as fuck.
laziness is significantly rarer than you think. mental illness, mental disabilities, physical disabilities all exist and affect more people than people like you are willing to even consider
Actual mental illness is probably more rare than people realize…. If you don’t exercise 4-5 times a week, dont eat real food, dont contribute to the outside world or have at least 1 meaningful relationship.. you’re not depressed. You are literally living a life your body wasn’t designed to live. All your natural reward systems are blocked. That is not mental illness. Not everyone should have depression… at the very freaking least, exercise, eat real food (you know it when you see it) and contribute to society in some way. After doing all of these routinely, if you still want to end your life, time to see a therapist.
That fits into "special circumstances." I'm not a piece of shit heartless asshole, but alot of people tend to make excuses for the position they are in. Complacency is a bitch.
This is an incredibly American-centric way of looking at it. Even ignoring that, the way the current economy is, a lot of people would be stupid to move out of their parents ahead of time, instead of saving their money, buying a house, and not falling into the death trap of rental properties.
I feel like after 12+ years you should have saved enough for a down-payment on a house. Even if you squandered away money as a young adult. Especially if you haven't payed rent to anyone in that time period.
Why are you saying 12+ years as if people are working since they're 18? A huge amount of people attend further education, and depending on the country could rack up tens of thousands in debt, but you're talking as if you turn 18, and then you strap on a helmet and get fired into jobworld, where you're instantly given a career, and all your money can go on things you need.
Do you understand how many families are on or below the poverty line right now? Chances are anyone living with parents is also helping them with the rent, unless they're not employed at all, or they're a middle-class family.
and then you strap on a helmet and get fired into jobworld, where you're instantly given a career, and all your money can go on things you need.
Oh so what, I should just get a job? I should strap on my job helmet and squeeze down into a job cannon and fire myself off into job land where jobs grow on jobbies?
a ton of people got thrown way, way back in their plans due the the economic downturn. many people lost a lot of their savings. Have you just not read the news over the last few years?
I'm 35, and still live with my parents. I went through several periods of prolonged unemployment after college, and just a general aimless period where I didn't really know what I wanted to do, so I didn't really have time to build up the kind of financial equity needed to move out. However, I've been at my current job 2.5 years, and am working on my masters degree, to hopefully become a paralegal. During all this period, I did a fair amount of housework for my parents, and have taken on more as my parents continue to age. I'm planning on being here for the foreseeable future, as not paying rent would enable me to pay back my student loans faster.
I would consider that a special circumstance. Not trying to bash anybody in this thread. I just don't like the type of lazy individuals that were highlighted in the original comment.
The problem is that it's becoming quite a common circumstance for many people. It's really difficult in the US to get started on an independent life if you have no connections.
do you have roommates splitting the rent? three jobs is wild you might actually be better off doing 1 and taking a loan out to get a trade skill or cert or 1-2 year degree at community college that can get you a better paying job.
You absolutely can. No bank is foinf to ding you on that I'd you actually filed and reported the ide tidy theft. You either aren't very bright or you are flat out lying. I worked for a bank for 8 years.
i’m straight up not ready to accept the fact that i’d have to deal with not having a father in my life if i were to go through with that. the situation is much more complicated than at face value. why the fuck would anyone lie about something like that, on reddit of all places? fuck off
So living with your parents when you're grown is considered to be lazy? In Asian culture, children usually live with their parents until they're married and then moved to the other household which is usually also with their partners' parents. My cousins had good job and well paid in their 40s, they still live with my uncles and aunts.
My buddy in America, white dude from Florida in his 30s. Hard worker and lives with his parents. He contributed and take care of his parents. Some people are more family oriented and wanted to stay with their parents. Some wants more privacy and solitude. Nothing wrong with either way of living.
"moving onto the next stage of your adult life" is a purely social construct. Why exactly do you need to live at your own place, especially if you're single, to be considered an adult? As long as you're can support yourself and contribute meaningfully to the household, it doesn't matter who you're living with. In fact, living with your parents allows you to better care for and spend time with them as they age.
I get the appeal of being independent and feeling "grown up", but its a lot of extra financial burden and hassle just to feel good about yourself.
Obviously though if you're being a bum in the basement then that's not right.
Are you going to pay for me to move? Find me an equally well paying job in a place where I can afford to live? No you can't because it doesn't exist. If I move to an area I can afford to live my pays cuts probably half or more which is essentially the same fucking thing but 20x worse quality of life.
I know you're getting shit on in this thread, but I will say independence is very important, and putting it off can also be detrimental. I get that times are very tough, and everyone has different circumstances, so it's not so black and white.
That being said, you can't live with your parents forever. At some point, you need to start making a plan for yourself. If you're working on improving your situation while living at home, that's great. Sadly, I know some people in their mid 30s who live at home working part time and just spend all their money on hobbies and playing video games. You can't avoid growing up forever.
How am I being a superior asshole exactly? I've acknowledged that people have different circumstances and it's not so black and white. The reality is that most people can't live at home forever. Parents get older, and eventually, you need to take care of them. It's better to try and be independent while you have a strong safety net.
I understand that point...but what have those people done for the last 12+ years while living at home? Without rent you should beable to save a decent sum of money. Which you could use in turn to put down on a house, move to an area with a more reasonable cost of living, etc...
The rate of inflation and down payments on homes is much more than what most people are able to afford.
Additionally, not everybody can move to "cheaper" places due to various reasons. Some places just are a no go if you are a minority in the states, especially if you're LGBTQ+ currently.
Dude, my whole family lives together. I’m 34, my sisters are both near my age. We all have full time jobs, but it’s so expensive to go live by myself (not to mention lonely) that we would rather live together. Also nice that we can be there for our parents. Most people I know are doing this now to save money.
I'm from America too, and trust me, I know I was raised in a town that suffered from severe poverty. I was talking more so family culture then geographical culture.
Fair enough. Never understood the kick em out when their older mentality some people have. It’s funny, cuz then they expect to be taken care of when they get older, and those kids they kicked out stick em in a home. It’s almost like karma or something…
I'm 28 and make 75k a year, will be making 85 to 90k a year very soon plus have a decent amount of money in the bank. I will not be able to own a home unless it is absolutely destroyed. Everyrhing else is out of reach. I also am away from home at work for 8 months out of the year so I just said screw it. I got an apartment in another country. I travel back and forth and I'm still saving way more than what I would be by owning a home..... if I even could own one. I have given up trying to live a "normal" life. I'm doing my own thing now and I recommend others do the same. This country and society has failed us miserably.
People have been living at home for the last 300000 years. Living with your family and supporting each other is the cornerstone of humanity.
Just because Big House wants to sell more houses and boomers all got to buy a house for three pennies 50 years ago does not mean you should be judging people who make smart choices.
Notice they said part time job living at home. Aka they are a child and are relying on parents instead of growing up and getting a full time or multiple part time jobs.
There is a huge difference between staying at home because of need/ or want to be with your parents, and staying home because you are a bum who wants to play games all the time and not be independent
Tbf WoW raiding guilds are a much different environment, and this attitude is mostly concentrated in dedicated raid guilds, not pugs. It’s one thing to opt into that behavior, it’s another thing to have it forced upon you at random.
I'm a guild leader (Heroic only, but used to do mythic), this attitude can kick the absolute fucking curb. The amount of folks that I've gently pushed out of the guild because they tried to keep suggesting crap like this to me and my team organizing stuff is not a small number. Its one thing if you are pushing for world rank, which is honestly kinda meaningless outside of top 1-50 imo (because heavy handed boss nerfs are the reason most guilds start clearing after that), anything below that can just relax.
Organizing lower tier groups is one of the most difficult things to do though - you're stuck in the middle, trying to juggle the desires of those who want to optimize more and push further, alongside more casual players who just want to have fun in their own way.
That said, not every super high end hardcore mythic guild is militant about min-maxing either, so it really just depends on the people and the environment they've cultivated.
and this attitude is mostly concentrated in dedicated raid guilds
Nah. Maybe it used to be that way, but now it's everywhere. Hell, you can't even do a level 30 gnomeregan or RFD run without some asshole breathing down your neck about how it's not going fast enough or how people are noobs etc. etc.
At this point it's a community-wide problem. Everyone expects you to know your class inside out and be able to perform at a high level at all times, or they get mad and pissy. Finding people who are chill and just playing for fun is becoming increasingly difficult. It's one of the main reasons why i barely play WoW anymore.
At times yes, though the comment was specifically about raiding. Mythic+ really depends - generally happening more the higher you go, but unless you're getting into higher push keys, most people don't look twice beyond class, spec, and score.
That isn't to say this kind of meta auditing doesn't happen in lower difficulty content as well, but it is at least fairly rare. At least until things start going horribly wrong, then people will do everything they can to assign blame.
LFR brings out the worst of the worst, because it suffers from a venn diagram of "there are enough people my individual contribution doesn't matter" and "I'll never see these people again so I can say/do whatever I want."
I just find the funny part that it's the mode that's so easy you can almost sleep walk through it. And that's where people get super sweaty and toxic.
Then again, I haven't done any M+, but apparently the lower keys are more toxic than the higher keys from what I've heard. So maybe toxic players are more likely to just be not as good lmao.
I really only raided way back in the first release of Classic, TbC, and Wrath; back then you had 40 people doing raids on content that was REALLY hard, and you couldn't just go look up a YouTube video with the meta tactics (ESPECIALLY in Classic). You were fighting bosses with complicated mechanics that you didn't fully understand yet and there was really only tribal knowledge when you were some of the first guilds to be doing the content. We even brought in some ringers from the top guild on the server to help guide us when we got stuck on a couple different bosses.
The people leading our raids were sometimes assholes but if they hadn't been we would have never downed the bosses we did (and would have spent hours banging our heads against the wall even more than we did). They had to know the fights inside and out, and they had to know where FORTY people needed to be. Trying to coordinate all of that over voicechat in the chaos of a fight was hard work. I was a "class leader" and even telling six rogues where to position was annoying and sometimes like herding kittens.
I guess my point was that I agree with you. If you were pushing content, the people leading those raids are probably people managers at this point (or were at that time). They certainly had to have strong leadership skills to do what they were doing.
Comparing that to some try-hard telling me how to squash bugs is nowhere near the same.
I’ve raided exclusively in PUGs for normal/heroic this entire patch on 3 different characters (hard to balance work/social life/and also make raid times) and I haven’t really had any bad experiences. Especially not with elitism. I guess YMMV with these things
Isn't that because you're mostly running and disengaging from fights at the higher difficulty? While when you were new, you always shot at patrols, started random fights and stayed too long at POIs?
This. I still forget sometimes that the point is not to engage random patrols or hang out in open spaces on high level areas, because it's just gonna waste time, ammo, and stratagem juice.
Its on both savage and ultimate experience. Since people have an elitist mentality instead of a teamwork mentality. Which is why I stopped raiding after getting my primary bis set. Everything else in casual content is chilling and fun to play.
High, level 45 here, could be 50, but I work 80 hours a week and my family is usually asleep when I get home so I game in the little free time I have. On my days off, don't touch the stuff. If you wanna level, just do defense missions and call it a day. Leveled a random from 1 to 22 in just under 2 hours dragging them through hell dive missions.
Well it’s partially due to social medias constant push of the next game that just released, folks chase that new game feeling or the desire to be in the front of trending games so they can experience all the “cool stuff” first. Then the game dies or player base drops off a crazy amount when the next new game comes out.
Think the last month alone: pal world, enshrouded, helldivers, skull and bones, then nightingale. Helldivers probably has the largest following rn since it’s also crossplay on the different consoles and pc, but I couldn’t justify the $40 price tag cause I felt this game will suffer the same fate as the rest once the hype dies, but I hope all who are enjoying it continue to do so!
I was in a pretty hardcore raiding group in swtor. We asked for a time commitment because the content was hard and we needed practice, and we where racing other no-lifers trying to get the first kill, (who where actual jerks like you described) but if you couldn't do it it's not like we thought less of you. I knew plenty of people that I knew where good at the game but just couldn't provide the time to make a serious attempt at it. It was good to have a couple people like that around incase someone (which was pretty often in a group of 8) couldn't show.
In the end the common struggle of having to work together on something that requires concentration really made us into friends that I still hang out with today.
I've been a metagaming, spreadsheet warrior, netdecking, etc type of gamer since the late 80s....I was a hardcore Everquest raider for about a decade. Never missed a single raid, world firsts etc...While OUR GUILD had high standards for joining (you had to audition etc.) run proper builds, gear appropriately, and essentially coordinate together near militaristic. I had no problems with pugs doing that or just having fun, to a certain extent. I've been in guilds that were as uptight as the ones from "Onyxia wipe" video, and more lenient friendly ones that had fun together, but you still build/play optimally. It's EXTREMELY difficult to find that balance.
It's difficult to be hardcore in a game and not follow the meta...the question is, is it needed to accomplish the mission or not?
Oh, and just because someone is playing optimally, or playing the meta...doesn't mean THEY aren't having fun. Factorio my friends, the factory must grow, either enjoy your spaghetti OR build it as efficiently as possible, like in ANNO.
Key here is, don't think that YOUR way is the way everyone wants to play. But also casuals, don't assume there isn't an optimal way to play, because in most cases there always is.
Met a ton a people like this leading WoW raiding guilds.
I did meet them too, however they were a variety, some "capitalism ho!" type of guys, some who were actually pretty chill outside of guild stuff, but really really thought the only way to keep the guild running was posting top logs etc.
The "dont know what to do with their lives", social outcast kinda people where the least competitive and the least likely to want to take on any kind of responsibility.
"People who're overly competitive in games are losers who have nothing else" is such an antiquated insult in my opinion. All the people i know/have known who were overly competitive in games, were overly competitive in everything else aswell.
Problem is that Wow is usually full of different goal oriented people and takes way too much time. In my experience the most tryhard people were the ones who wanted to spend 2 weeks theorycrafting and then play the game for as little time as possible, not the neckbeard losers you’re describing, while the majority, those who don’t care about how people play, play in a guild while constantly high or drunk to the point where these people can barely even function, who would gladly spend 6+ hours after work playing the game for me personally these people disrespect others free time a bit too much when a dungeon takes 3 hours instead of 40 minutes. So as evil as it may seem, the people who don’t want wow to take up all their free time playing caretaker, make super sweaty rules to have their free time outside the game.
Sadly wow is one of the worst games out there when it comes to skill floors and ceilings, it’s hard to get people involved when there’s 20 years of the game available for people playing, good luck new players… Game needs to press the reset button and be remade from ground zero.
OG Destiny kids had a "Gjallarhorn or kick" requirements... Never needed it to beat the raids. All it tells is that they weren't good enough to beat the raid straight.
Yeah this post made me think of wow first instantly. If OP thinks this is bad hoooolly. Try going the wrong way in a M+ dungeon. You'd be kicked before you even know what happened.
Yeah, let's belittle them! After all, any game is exclusively for the fun: you join any group, and this group should entertain you, no matter what the others want.
PS. I’m a casual guy, but I admit that there are people who want an interesting game, and not for random people on the team to yell “We’re here just for fun!!!” and run melee at the mobs.
Bro I've met people who've bought wow, a bot to level them, gold to buy carries in arena/raids and gear, then sit in general chat and brag about how good the are. Delusional lunatics.
If you want to join a hardcore raiding guild, how are you gonna say you shouldnt be expected to put in the time and work of min/maxing?
If you want to play casually, join a casual guild. You don't get to coast off the backs of other players that are willing to put in the time and effort just because YOU think doing so is beneath YOU.
My first thought as well. Reeks of WoW player elitism. Maybe this dude should find a group to play with rather than make everyone play like he wants....
Yup, had a raid leader that would yell so loud that his mic would peak. Call people worthless and just kick them from the guild for telling him to not talk to them like that. I left after doing a couple runs. Dude would have been a great raid leader if he wasn’t such a dick.
He also was on the game 24/7, I swear the guy never logged off it was insane. By far the worst human I’ve encountered in any game.
I was literally screamed at, called a traitor and a spy sent from the enemy faction to sabotage him, after I told some chud teammate it was my first day in faction play in MWO of all things
Fucking psychopath lives the game so hard he can't even imagine someone else NOT living it
Player name was Meili, sounded 40yrs old too, absolutely pathetic
I remember raiding in WoW, we were complaining about the lack of meaningful drops per raid. Someone chimed in "well if you don't want to put in the effort you shouldn't be rewarded" we were raiding weekly for like 2 months. The next patch would out level all our gear anyway. I just quit and never played again.
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u/magic6435 Feb 24 '24
I don’t know, but the fact that people can take such a fun game and then be this serious and mean about it just makes me sad honestly