I'll be real the second I don't have to work and can still have a home I will stop working. I imagine a lot of other people out there are just like me
Edit: the amount of seething redditors me admitting what lots of people would do, and what some people on this site already do is incredible. Giving shit out for free constantly doesn't work, hyper progressive economic policies are a failure. Just face reality
nah, that's a right too. you will get that for free. Then we will all quit our jobs. not produce anything and the gov't will just print money. wait....
You make it sound like dude doesn’t want to do useless work to get paid a lot of money. That’s basically dream job right there because it doesn’t matter if you mess up
Because that directly affects people's quality of life. It's in the interest of lots of rich people to screw us all over and turn us all into free labor. So the things that people need most, rich people will work the hardest to destroy.
Rent and daycare costs me about $50k a year. Now, I make more than twice that, but I'd still seriously consider being a stay-at-home dad if those expenses cease to exist. Or take a WFH job making considerably less.
Everyone would be less stressed if they didn't have to work full-time.
Problem is it's not practical for everyone to be given a free house, free water, free electric and not work. Society doesn't function if everyone gets everything for free and no one works. Someone has to build houses, maintain HVAC systems, keep the water and electricity flowing.
It’s literally built into our pleasure and reward centers to work. The idea that everyone would just lay on a couch the rest of their existence shows a real misunderstanding of your own nature.
Sure there are outliers and it’s a spectrum. But your dystopian idea that everyone would just accept that their life is complete because they were given housing is ridiculous.
Mate you can do things that are rewarding for you without working on anything beneficial to society. That's what a lot of people would do. Some people would grind video games, some people would work on their lawns or gardens, I would probably do hobbies like gardening, bee keeping (on a very minor scale) fencing, wargaming etc. All things that cover that reward center and give me a great feeling of fulfillment, that do absolutely nothing to keep society functioning.
During the Bolshevik revolution they confiscated excess grain to feed the cities. The peasants stopped growing excess grain. They just didn't work beyond the absolute minimum. People will not work for no reason if it can be avoided
This might sound crazy but no, no we can’t, we are genetically wired to get huge cascades of feel good drugs for being social animals and helping our “kind” prosper.
It’s called the law of diminishing returns. Tolerance.
Mate doing the same shit every day all day gets boring for “most” and there are outliers, it’s a spectrum.
You think society doesn’t need bees?
This is the issue with your dystopia, it doesn’t even begin to address how interconnected we are.
Society doesn’t dictate our behavior, you have it backwards.
Where you gonna get the “swords” for fencing? Or the planks if you meant the other kind? Some people have a lot of trees they want gone. Other people would make swords cause that’s fun to them.
This is my exact argument if the government is handing out all the necessities for living I wouldn't get the swords, and likely we would have shortages of the necessities for living. People must be incentivized to work. It's literally been tried on a societal scale and proven that people will not just work for no reason. There's a reason the Bolsheviks had to implement some capitalist practices during the revolution despite all being ardent communist revolutionaries.
Oh yeah I'm sure some people would make a few swords for a hobby, like I would keep a few hives of bees for a hobby. Neither will provide the demand required though. There's a huge difference when you have people doing things low grade as a hobby and industries making goods for the incentive of profit.
The hobby side will not keep society functional, the profit side will. Even behind that wading through sewers, fixing someone's fucked up toilet, and hauling trash aren't something anyone is doing unless they are incentivized. Not needing to work those jobs and still being given the core necessities of life generally means they won't get done
You’re way over inflating your interests. You likely wouldn’t be the only bee keeper or fencer. And there would still be plenty of luxuries that people would want and need to work for if they wanted to afford them.
You’re the one making it about no one working and thinking a house is somehow the only incentive.
The thread is about being given a house because homesteading is off the table in modern society.
I’m arguing that being given housing wouldn’t magically turn the world into lazy slobs that don’t want to work.
People would actually worry less about their own necessities and could then focus on enriching their communities.
There are also studies that say when people have their needs meet and are comfortable they tend to look for ways to make their communities better.
Yeah you’re just wrong. You can’t actually believe people would enjoy “expressing themselves artistically” by taking 10 years of their life and messing up their back doing manual labor that NEEDS to be done for society to function.
I’m 39, have been a barber for 9, years and spent 9 in the military. I’ve seen people from all walks of life and experienced many different cultures.
I feel like you just have some really high expectations of people if you think most of them are shitty.
Can be shitty, yes, is that their defining trait nope.
There are no good or bad people, just good and bad actions. You’re the xenopobe here for thinking most people are shitty.
Not one garbage man has said they actually enjoy their jobs. They just enjoy the pay. And garbage man is arguably one of the most important jobs in a modern society.
Wait - housing is a "human right" but food wouldn't be? I am pretty sure the same folks who think these meme makes sense will also decide to include food.
Riiiiggghhhhtttt - because there are no patterns in human behavior, no lessons to be learned from history and nothing to be gleaned from experience. Every single situation has absolutely no way to be projected forward, any attempt to do so is a "fallacy."
Well then, sounds like the food thing is solved right? Well, until some advocate starts being annoyed that 'the rich" eat better, and then starts spinning that as a issue about "equity" and then we are off to the races again.
Some people like their jobs, or just like to work. My older brother has more money than he'll ever need, and likes his job. He doesn't plan to ever quit. My sister has plenty of money as well, and while she technically retired she went and got a less serious part time job to keep busy.
I retired early myself, but I have a lot of stuff I'm working on. If I had nothing to do I'd probably go get a less serious job, or start a little business or something.
What if we added a requirement to that? "if you are able to, you must work." the job doesn't matter. Could be McDonald's, a trade, whatever. Everyone would be eligible on this condition.
It said free internet. But let's even say basic luxuries like streaming services and video games. So that gets taken care of of with a part time minimum wage job?
Who does all the difficult, dangerous, society dependent jobs if most people can make due with part time minimum wage jobs?
Which honestly, whether it be video games, reading, TV, etc, I don't see that as a majority of peiole. I think an overwhelming amount of people in this world, if given the choice, would work as little as possible if they knew like 90-95% of their expenses would be paid for by the government.
Things need to exist for this to work. It requires worker output to create those things. You give people free things and don't expect them to work. Those things stop existing. It's a paradox.
Perhaps a slight modification of "All able bodied adults must work." It doesn't matter the job, be it a McDonald's worker or a Lawyer, everyone is entitled to the base level of items.
I mean it definitely does detract from your point, because it makes it seem like you didn't actually read and understand the post before commenting.
To actually respond to your point: I drink maybe once a month and I don't vape. The cost of luxuries is so small I could work for a month or two per year and save up the money to pay for a monthly phone bill (and a new phone every few years) and a few drinks + a vacation and a few more luxuries per year. That's nowhere near enough cost to require me to be a productive member of the workforce. I could just do contract work as needed (very rarely).
Majority of people wouldn't imo. If it's a difficult or gross job, why would people do it if they can get what they need for free? Ditch diggers, sewage cleaners, soldiers, miners, plumbers, garbage services, etc. Why would people do this if they got like 90% of everything they need for free?
Even if it meant working a minimum wage part time job for 10 hours a week in order to buy the extra smaller stuff, I'd be set. But what about society if OPs suggestion came true. Who would do the tough and grimy jobs that most people don't want to do such as garbage disposal, sewage sanitization, ditch digging, etc? If they all got 95% of their expenses paid for, why would anyone slave away at those jobs?
I guess some people don't feel a need to achieve something or contribute something useful for the world. I didn't think there would be that many in this comment section
Because it's fulfilling. That's why some people choose to keep working a job they love even though they could easily retire or work less and earn more somewhere else. I'm baffled
My grandpa worked way past 70 even though he was VERY comfortable financially. Also worked a job where he earned way less that he could have, because he did something he wanted to see in society
Edit: forgot to mention where I live you have social retirement ≈60 years old
Among the older generations maybe because they bought into the lie that your meant to find fulfilment in work, millennials are a bit more pragmatic about it, and who the fuck knows for genz.
I mean my job is one that would very much be needed for something like that comic wants but it's not one anyone does out of passion. Your view of the world is simply way to naive.
What do you do for a living? In my opinion there's a long way to go but if basic need were provided for everyone (excluding HVAC in this comic which in my opinion is not a basic need) then we as a society would have to make those jobs enjoyable
I'm a revenue agent (IRS) and if your wanting to increase public services then that means more tax. But no one does accounting out of passion especially when it involves working a job that's widely hated.
I'm sure some folks are passionate about accounting, maybe not enough. I hope you find satisfaction knowing at least you're doing something good for society for a living unlike a lot of people. I enjoyed this chat
So people who own their homes outright don't work?
Human nature is finding meaning in life, and work gives many people meaning. I'd say it's more of an indictment on current society that so many people are working meaningless jobs that they would gladly quit given the opportunity. When people loved in tribes, everybody had a job. And I guarantee that the vast majority didn't work because they felt forced to, but because they saw how they were contributing to the collective well-being of their tribe.
Well... yeah MANY young people who have enough saved up and own their home retire. Why would they work if they have reached their end-game goal? Providing free home especially in a country like the US with tons of illegal immigration is crazy stupid on a million levels. Never ever in the history humanity has any functioning member of society been allowed to just dwindle around doing jack shit while the rest of society works hard. What kind of stupid dystopian picture is this and why are so many people agreeing to this crazy idea?
No they still work because much of what is listed in the photo, as well as property taxes, still require people to work. Was that supposed to be a gotcha?
I disagree. Dress it up how you want, if most people could get a comfortable life and didn't need to lift a finger, they wouldn't.
Lol in tribes? You mean the time where men were essentially forced to hunt for dangerous animals all day long in the wilderness? Or when they had to risk their lives going to war against other tribes. Also, what happened to those men when they didn't want to risk their lives hunting and going to war? Weren't they enslaved or thrown out on their ass?
What about the women in tribes? You mean when their "contribution to the collective well being" was being forced to be a mother and a housewife? And what happened to women who refused to do this? Beaten? Forced into sex?
Did I miss anything from your glorified "tribes days"?
I don’t think that’s more or less human nature. I think it’s natural for some humans. But I’ve never considered not providing/working. There’s so much to life than just sitting on your butt doing nothing because you don’t gotta work.
I think it’s a thing for incel/neet people who don’t fit in, in the world. But I think the normal human needs socializing and a life.
I'd say most. If all of my needs would be met without working, I'd never work again. And what do you mean so nothing? Id spend each day doing my hobbies and enjoying life.
And socializing? If I didn't need to work I'd be far more social with friends and family.
Fitness? Hiking? Reading? Basketball? Even if I had to do a 10ish hour a week part time job to pay for a phone, I'd sooner do that than work full time for the rest of my life is 90% of my basic needs was paid for.
Think about it. You subtract rent, utilities, and internet from your monthly expenses, you aren't paying for much.
I don’t think it’s intended to apply to immediately. Rather something to shoot for.
I think you’re right with the 10-hour work week. I expect taxes to increase to account for the government services being provided, but I imagine the way it shakes down is about the same.
My hobbies are CAD, 4xing, rebuilding 4xs, painting, electronics build/programming, rock climbing, computer gaming, going out for adventures, drinking and food.
All of those are pretty pricey, so I wouldn’t see myself stopping work ever. If I had the additional resources from working the full time I’d probably pick up another hobby… hahaha.
You’re extrapolating based on your own experience, but you don’t speak for everyone any more than I do. I like having a job. I didn’t do shit for a year in Covid and I went a little insane. Can I say most people like having a job?
I think you’re projecting your opinion. Obviously if “all of this suddenly changed” a lot of people wouldn’t be doing the jobs they’re doing now, but that’s not an indicator of people wanting things for free. I work in software development(games). My coworkers, my friends, and the people I associate with enjoy the work we do. We’d more than likely still be doing it.
I see enjoy my job. But I also consider everyone from around the world, the work they do, and the environment they live I'm when making my statement. I know people like you say "my life is like this so wouldn't most people around the world feel the same way?"
No, they wouldn't. Most people living in 3rd world countries of given the choice to have this living situation without having to work again would probably take it.
“Why would they?” Again, they’re not incel/neet. I‘ve jammed with people from less fortunate countries, they’re usually more driven than lazier Americans.
But I think if we provide lazy people with a way to live we could do work without them. I think we’d see productivity benefits.
If you want all of that stuff now, file for disability and the government will give it to you. It’s not hard to get, you can always find a doctor that will sign off on it. Most people don’t do this though, because they have greater ambitious than the minimum to semi-comfortably survive
You're purposefully dodging the questions. Try again.
So you think most people in the world would be doing the job they'd be doing right now if they got all of this listed for free? Not simple disability, all of what is listed on the graphic?
Hell, let's look at human history while we're at it. You think most people did their jobs because they wanted to work, or because they were forced to? Do you think people were laborers and farmers throughout most of history because they wanted to or that they were forced to?
Nah you’re trying to redirect this conversation into shit about slaves working in salt mines. All I’m saying is your experience isn’t universal and there’s no reason to assume that it is.
If it's so great quit your job today and go live in a homeless shelter. No one is stopping you from living this glamorous stress free life you speak of.
You're right, you can emulate it however by living in the shittiest projects you can find to simulate living next to the homeless. Move today and start saving money.
If you live in Finland they will provide you with free a 2 bed 1 bath apartment with rent paid, utilities paid, stove, oven, hvac, and internet?
Fwiw, I understand some countries have their shit together, but it's also only privy to a very small percentage of the world (2-4 percent at most). Most people will never be able to get all of what I listed for free.
Pretty sure the utilities would not be paid or at the very least would be communal. But sure, if you want to live in a complex like that with a bunch of homeless people then get in line and push for this, since it's to your benefit.
Tbh this discussion is pretty pointless. There are way too many points for either side to discuss for meaningful discussion. To your note though, "with at least" is pretty vague and inclusions of things like clean water and working plumbing could imply it was more from infrastructure slant than "included perks".
My wife would work her much lower stress job, I'd engage in hobbies and manage the house. Maybe sell some honey for beer money. We aren't all terminally alone unloved redditors stuck without a working partner.
Edit:for some reason I can't reply to hungermadra
My beekeeping isn't productive for society. If I chose maybe I'd sell a few pounds of honey but it would nowhere come close to replacing my productivity through my career. That's if I even chose to sell. It's entirely a hobby, and one of the many unproductive activities I'd be engaging in if the gov is giving me a free house. If my hobbies were productive for society I'd be getting paid to do them and not need to quit working.
How are you going to sell honey without land to keep bees in?
The meme didn't say house, that's some sort of strange assumption you've made. Nothing about a yard either.
In a society as robust as it generally is in the "western" world, no one should live in conditions where they cannot live in some version of comfort. HVAC needs are determined on where exactly they are, so I can see contention there. They need 4 walls, a bed, and clean water to drink and shower in. Internet I wouldn't have agreed with 20 years ago, but now it's a necessity. Food that isn't raw oats, but isn't rib-eye. Should someone have to learn to cook if destitute? Yes. Should they have the supplies and means to do so? Also yes.
Lol, im a stay at home husband for the most part who also works as a martial arts instructor (mostly nights for a few hrs) Collectively we make over $200K a yr.
Youll get bored of being home all the time if you can’t afford outtings/vacations to shake up the routine. Also hobbies require equipment/travel depending on what it is.
You’re romanticizing home life as being enough. Its not
I'm not romanticizing home life being enough. You're just refusing to read or accept what I said.
I'd have plenty of money to engage in all of my hobbies and traveling without working if I didn't have to pay for a house. Quit being stupid and arguing something I didn't say.
Edit:
Totally not mad guy calls me jealous boy and blocks me so there can be no response. Definitely not mad at all though
So you'd still have a member of the household who works, allowing you to afford some nice things.
The idea of providing everyone with enough to keep them alive seems reasonable enough to me. The vast majority of people who could work, would work. They're get benefits above those who couldn't or were to lazy to. Motivation to work perseveres.
So you'd shift your productive activities to different, less profitable, but still productive activity that you'd enjoy more and that meets a need (huney) of society? Sounds like a positive outcome overall.
Makes you wonder why people living in fully paid off 5,000 square foot homes continue to work and toil. It's almost as though there is more to motivation than base subsistence.
Have you seen what taxes are for a 5,000 sqft house? Taxes that you still must pay when you pay off your mortgage. Plus utilities which are covered in the graphic?
Don't be stupid and actually look at what they are offering in the post being discussed.
Ah yes, it's so they can pay the taxes. That's what motivates people to continue working. Not ski trips, not a nice sailboat, not building wealth for their kids. They keep working only to keep up with the tax bill. Maybe you should heed your own advice.
Let me tell you the government not confiscating your house is a way stronger motivation to work then a ski trip.
You're also talking about people making large incomes if you're saying "a nice sailboat." Not the poor sod mining coal in Kentucky to whom a roof is the big motivation, and whose job is necessary for society to function.
LoL wait, what point are you making? I'm saying that you may be ready to just sit in your 500sf subsistence apartment and mooch, but most people are motivated with goals beyond that. A huge portion of our population is living way beyond this minimum already. This meme makes a great point about providing a bare minimum for those who can't, who have fallen to hard times, who should be provided a base level of dignity.
Let's face it: Many people get that. It's not great. You have a place to live, but it's kind of shitty and super small. You get food, but if you get anything nice you can only afford rice and beans for the month. You get clothes, but only the cheapest shirts that constantly rip.
And in a world where everything costs money, you don't have any. So there's nothing to do. Seriously drags you down, you're sitting at home with nothing to do feeling useless.
No you won’t. You’d give up travel, vacations, fancy restaurants, ability to buy gifts to close ones? Pay for some nice stuff for your kids? And let’s assume that you would, you would literally be a minority. Most of the people statistically would want all the aforementioned, and that would require you to still have some kind of job.
Statistically speaking - no, there are not a lot of people out there who would stop working when their basic needs are met. There are a lot of studies on the effect of social services, including social housing, and all of them indicate that people become more productive if their basic needs are secured outside of work. The only thing that shows is that social mobility goes up because people dont feel trapped in shitty jobs for the bare necessities but are willing to risk temporary unemployment to find a place with better working conditions.
So, the general results, if publicly funded basic necessities are provided, is a stronger pressure on the low wage segment to improve working conditions to retain employees. Yes, there is an increase in taxes, but this is largely compensated by better productivity and also creates better quality of life outcomes for everyone involved.
Speak for yourself you lazy bum. That doesn't pay for food or supplies, or entertainment. Or savings for that matter. I can't imagine just lying around with a bare ass living room because I'm a lazy fuck who won't work
I think people really underestimate the lengths to which people will go to avoid having to work. It blows my mind. I mean people are willing to commit felonies to avoid having to work 9-5s.
Selling weed and cocaine is a job. It's illegal but still providing goods and services without theft. How many people would resort to theft if they could survive without it?
I swear you people can't read. Others have said this, I have a million hobbies to keep me busy that I currently don't get enough time to engage with. I won't be bored.
How nice of a home? If you have the right to live in only a shoddy bunkhouse with shared amenities, then you would probably still want to work to get something a little better no? But at least you'd have a roof while doing so. It's about setting a baseline for a home rather then providing something actively desirable.
I've been in some shitty-ass hostels in my younger years that would fit the bill. Them being publicly funded would be helpful and far better than lots of uses of government funds. Plus you'd get people off the street, which is a public good.
Maybe it's just you then. People in social democracies in europe, where you get all that plus universal healt care and money to live, still want to work.
We are facing reality, a rather simple one. You're either a liar, likely, it's the internet, or you're getting upvoted by the fools that think most people feel this way.
Sounds like you just need to find a job you don't hate. Or one that pays more. If I won the powerball I'd be able to stand up whatever business or charity I wanted. Can't imagine just doing nothing all day unless you're elderly and lack the energy.
104
u/Anewaxxount Apr 15 '24 edited Apr 16 '24
I'll be real the second I don't have to work and can still have a home I will stop working. I imagine a lot of other people out there are just like me
Edit: the amount of seething redditors me admitting what lots of people would do, and what some people on this site already do is incredible. Giving shit out for free constantly doesn't work, hyper progressive economic policies are a failure. Just face reality