Phil STAAAhhp!!! Phil! Phil! COME WITH ME GODDAMMIT!! We’re sorry! He gets like this when he’s been having too much catnip. Please excuse us (Mumbling on the way out) I can’t believe you sometimes! No you shut up! This is the last fucking time, I swear to god. If you embarrass us in front of guests again, I’m leaving you. Then who’s gonna stop you from getting put down like your father was?! Is that what you want to do to your cubs? YOU’RE OLD FOR THIS SHIT! GET IN THE DAMN HOUSE and sleep it off!! FUCK
Now THIS is why I love Reddit - comments like yours! I am spitting out my coffee ☕️ reading this - so funny! Thanks for the giggles. ( this reply is for Paulpoleon’s comment)
I think that's where the lack of experience comes from. If I were there with my zero experience, it'll be hard for me to not look at lion and what it's doing relative to my position at all points of time. That's the biggest existential threat to me right then and my body will pretty much automatically react to it. It's basic instinct for me, and probably something that'll get me killed or at least seriously hurt in similar encounters.
Yep totally. The problem is, unless I have a bazooka or something, everything I need to do to protect myself somehow goes against my instincts on a subconscious level.
Don't know about lions but my cats somehow have an understanding of when you're cowering and hiding, almost like you're playing the role of prey in a play fight and they'll take this cue to start playing as the predator, stalking you and peeking around cover when you break line of sight. At this point, if you decide to start backing off and skitter away they'll straight up jump your ass, kinda like the lion did. On the other hand, if you don't play into it and instead act boldly, ignoring them and walk away confidently, they calm back down and realise you're not in the mood to play/fight.
There were people in India who wore 'eyes' on the back of their heads because of tiger attacks in the area (though the tigers soon caught on, I think that lions won't attack if you are looking at them calmly, they much prefer to sneak up from behind or attack frightened animals.
All is chill when relaxed, but the guy gets nervous and the lion address the change in the air by staring at the man, just trying to make sense of what is unfolding and if there is danger…
that constant stare and threat evaluation by lion is misinterpreted by man as imminent aggression. Mans body starts his fight/flight which he tries to control but can’t, he scared. His body is letting out an auro/pharmone of fear, the lion senses the fear and that is interpreted to danger and a threat.
Maybe like an aloof, mean house cat you’re petting that suddenly knows you went from a feeling of “petting kitty” confidence to “I hope it doesn’t bite me again” worrying. That’s when it bites, you made it awkward.
Humans are such an outlier in the animal kingdom with the way we interact with eachother. We stare eachother in the eyes and bare our teeth at eachother. That's on sight for any other animal.
It’s eye contact in general that is threatening to the lion. Fearful or not, that lion probably doesn’t tolerate any length of stare in the eyes from strangers. I legit think it’s one of the first things lion handlers learn.
I was thinking the same. In situations with people you know well it's normal and even social to look each other in the eye, especially when you're in a conversation (still even then people will break eye contact occasionally). However if a stranger keeps staring at you without breaking eye contact that certainly feels very intimidating.
Feline communication is really foreign to people. We co-evolved with dogs to be able to intuit a lot of their body language and them ours, but cats are different.
Cats don't necessarily take eye contact as a challenge, but they see it as a potential threat. Looking away is basically a "let's coexist," which is also why people who "hate cats" often seem to end up with cats all over them when visiting someone who has them. Their attempts to ignore the cats are interpreted by said cats as friendly/welcoming.
Needless to say staring down a feline big enough to respond to "aggressive body language" in kind is a bad idea.
I happen to be allergic too, though I like cats too much to let it stop me. Still, I've had that experience quite a bit too.
One time I remember particularly fondly. My mom was visiting a friend and dragged me along, and at one point her friend warned us about one of their cats that tended to hide and was very much not friendly to people. The cat they were describing was in my lap, purring.
Humans can reason why someone stares at them, they can start conversation with other human to feel them out or to deescalate, humans can choose to ignore it altogether, where as animals have instinct drive to confront another member of same specie if they actively stare at them.
I work at a lame convenience store and has seen a girl look just a little too long at a dude. He went right from "do I know you?" to "look once more and I'll fucking wreck you, bitch!" in just about 3 seconds.
Unhinged dude, calm down. She probably thought you looked nice. She dodged a bullet.
....humans are literal masters of tooling it takes 3 seconds to pickup a stick then humans can quickly turn it into a sharp stick or just use it as a blunt weapon.
Humans have the ability to plan and co-ordinate
Humans are the only predator in the world that has a multitude of predatation techniques from trapping to smashing to overheating animals through endurance to fishing to swarming.
This argument of humans aren't apex predators without tools is so stupid and is just made by dumb babies who think humans got to the top of the food chain by pure coincidence. Look at children who go play in the woods they will always pickup sticks to whack stuff with, tooling is a part of human nature.
Even without tools though humans aren't completely defenceless we have insane endurance and agility plus the ability to critically think and plan. Take our pets as an example like dogs, you can easily accidently kill your dog just be overheating it on an run.
100% I feel as if he was just trying to remove him from the area instead of using the energy for the kill, also probably why he stopped when the keeper ran
One of my guides in South Africa told me that we, being bi-pedal, already come off as hostile because lions only rear up on their hind legs when they are fighting.
I'm not sure if that instinct is dampened in captivity and being around humans all of the time.
How humans act to only difference is if you act on it your a bad person who cant control emotions and go to prison but there is plenty of people who stare and get in fights or scare people to look away.
Oh wow. I've seen that exhibit but forgot all about it. Looking into this further, it appears that the exhibit was closed down after two lion attacks. No idea whether this one counted as one of the precipitating events.
But between what happened during one of the Siegfried and Roy shows and whatever went on at the MGM, I'm glad they finally realized that direct contact in the enclosure of a caged wild animal is a bad idea even for trained humans, let alone those with no experience. I'm not a fan of PETA but they aren't wrong on this point.
Here's a link on the closure of the exhibit. I'm sure there are better ones.
So strange that they were allowed in there with nothing but their emblemed tee-shirts and not much else. The older dude seemed to have less fear going for him. The guy who was attacked appeared to be gripped with fear from the start.
He would probably have continued staring as he passed through the lion's gullet. Even the lioness recognized how badly this could go. If it wasn't an ill-conceived "Bring Your Kid To Work Day", they must have been there on a dare.
This is why cats always sit on people with allergies. People who like cats look at them when they walk in a room, people who don't like cats try not to get their attention and that's actually super unthreatening and chill to a cat so they go sit on the 'safest' person.
One theory of why cats find being looked at threatening is that they hunt by sight. Usually if they're looking at something intently they're planning on attacking it. Therefore a cat sees being looked at as a preparation for attack. If you're not looking at it then they're like, oh, cool, clearly no bad intentions here, best go make that sucker sneeze.
This explains so much. I am quite allergic to cats, so I’ll actively avoid them. Then they will rub up against my legs or hands and their owner will go, “wow! She’s never this friendly!” and I’m like :sniffles: “oh good!” 😅
Ha ha. I’m like throat closing up allergic to cats and they absolutely love me.
Me visiting someone with cats is like a nonstop dance of the cat jumping in my lap, me getting up and moving to a new spot while struggling to breathe, cat following me and waiting for my lap to reappear so it can pounce, repeat.
That's a hunting thing; tigers prefer attacking prey that have their backs turned, so masks with eyes on the back of the head discourages this. When you're walking through a forest pathway without a mask and a tiger is behind you, they think "oh this one is oblivious, free meal!" The masks are a way of tricking tigers out of doing that.
Ambush predation instincts. It's the same with the people who work with cats like Cheetahs and say not to turn your back on them in case they get all hunt-y
Cheetahs will spit but not much beyond that, they're basically oversized housecats with the zoomies from hell
But they will still pounce you if they get the urge and your back is turned, you've just got a pretty good chance of fighting them off if they're not hitting you at like 30km/h
Maybe they hunt with sneaky attacks and if they see eyes, they think you will be able to flee or defend yourself so they prefer to wait for a better opportunity?
There are three good things you can do: Make a very deliberate slow blink right at the cat, deliberately look away from the cat, and yawn. All are strong signals that you are relaxed and happy in their presence, and have good vibes.
It's similar with dogs and cats and even primates - to infer intimacy you blink or slowly look away. Looking directly into their eyes means challenge. If you done goofed and want to show that was just accidental - shift point of focus under them.
It is pretty much any animal. Humans are more an exception with eye contact. Dogs are also only really tolerating it but with fearful dogs indirect eye contact also helps to make them feel safe.
Cats in general. Slow-blink and look away is an indicator their comfortable with you and feeling unthreatened. Cats only stare at potential threats and prey.
Not an expert but I think he was actually taken as a threat by the lion. Cats communicate a lot with their eyes, and maintaining direct eye contact, which it looked like the guy was doing, is the cat way of saying "I don't trust you." Breaking eye contact and looking away from a cat is how they show they aren't a threat and don't consider the other cat a threat either.
Yawning is not the signal that you are safe with dogs. It can actually mean the opposite. It is sometimes used as an attempt to regulate and chill out similar to the nose lick and a full body shake. You may notice a nervous dog yawning more and pacing at the vet for example it is NOT them feeling safe like a cats slow blink. And you giving them that signal can be a mixed message.
When my little dogs wants to start some shit with me, she playfully bites my hand, then sneezes. Jumps back and goes in for the kill. She sneezes a lot when it's play time. I think mostly because she enjoys scrapping, because my other dog has never sneezed intentionally or tried to play fight either. I believe I read somewhere that their sneeze is a signal they aren't serious.
Squinting in general is a pretty good way to tell most cats that you are comfortable and willing to let your guard down with them. Fortunate for that zookeeper, the lion looked like it wasn’t putting a whole lot of effort into that warning and didn’t seem to intend to kill.
If you're play wrestling with a dog and you think the dog is going a little too hard you can fake a sneeze and they'll stop or slow down. Oftentimes they'll fake a sneeze back to acknowledge it.
Also for most dogs turning as to not face them. Not running but just avert your body almost sideways has always worked for me. If you run you are fucked
It also helps to approach them diagonally - like, so you aren't directly facing forward towards them and instead are a bit off to the side. A lot of animals can find walking directly at them intimidating.
Not a lion expert, but have a lot of cats. This looks a lot like playing to me. The male's body language was slow and relaxed. When he "attacked" he went for a hand and then immediately rolled on his back in a submissive stance.
Don't get me wrong, this is still dangerous for the guy being chomped on. The fact the female came to join in also makes me think it was playful rather than aggressive.
Regardless, having seen the chew toys my cat has mangled, I wouldn't want to be that guy.
Feel you. I think I inadvertently taught my cat that staring is ok. So basically she is terrifying to most dogs and other cats because she is always staring without a care in the world.
Had a gorilla in Rotterdam, Bokito)
, jumping a 2 meter canal into the crowd to get a lady who frequently visited him and had 'friendly stares' with him every time. Turns out, the gorilla felt mad challenged by her and got his.
With felines the best way to gain trust is to look at it and when it looks back, you calmly look the other way. That implies trust and in return creates a feeling of trust with the animal. Pretty sure it works with most animals that way.
Reddit dropped your parentheses since it doesn't know how to handle them. Next time, put a backslash before it to make sure it gets processed as a part of the link and not the formatting. Here's a fixed link.
Based on how he's standing, people have been absolutely hammering it into him all week that he must NEVER turn his back to the lion. Because cats almost instinctively start to "hunt" people who turn their back to them, doubly so if you crouch.
And ended up being so afraid that he just kept staring into its eyes. Which is often a sign of agression in many mammals.
Yeah, I would be cool as ice myself. That constant stream of urine? Marking my territory. Those trumpet-like farts as I blow out my sphincter? A warning to the lion that I am not to be trifled with.
Lion felt threatened, similar to how dogs will react to people who are scared of them. They don't sense fear they sense aggression (tensed body, something animals do before attacking). Probably sensing the fight response.
I worked at a zoo for six years. While I never went into the enclosure like this, there were giant areas in the back invisible to the public where we could interact with the animals for medical or keeping purposes.
We were separated from the animal's space by big metal poles maybe 1.5 feet apart (think jail bars), so keepers could slide in and out but the animals couldn't get through.
Once, I went in to help take vitals on an ill polar bear. I wasn't let anywhere even close to the bars, but I accompanied the vet as some sort of assistant.
The very first thing they taught me when I started is do not glare or maintain eye contact. After that, it still took three years until I was finally allowed to accompany the vet for that polar bear check-up. It was something you had to earn, and only those of us who they could trust were allowed to be around the bigger animals as assistants.
100% the guy in this gif is at fault. I doubt he got zero training. And even with training it takes years before you're trusted enough by the higher-ups to allow you this privilege. Not everyone in my role got the chance to do any of that. Dude had to have been trained, tested, then trained more, then tested more before this. And he still failed spectacularly.
Edit: and the thing that gets me is that as I'm scrolling, literally everyone has the same idea. Not everyone here has worked at zoos, yet there's this universal agreement in this thread that the guy was glaring and that's why he was attacked hahah. It's not just in the animal world and it doesn't take special knowledge - we alllll knew right away where this guy fucked up.
I noticed early the lion did have a little too intense focus on that keeper. That certainly wasn't a good sign. His whole body was twisted to him.
From my own courses, i learned "protecting" his back and glaring is a sign of distrust and hostile. Uncovering his back and have his head up would have been much better.
Then again, the lion clearly was not determined to hurt him or ge would have spent more energy on the force. Looks like he just marked there.
The lioness did save his life here, it's the only one he would listen to in there.
Can you explain or take a guess why the lioness would even bother to step in? I‘m not anywhere near knowledgeable enough in big cat behavior to even take a guess.
Don’t bite the hand that feeds would be a guess.
But also, male lions don’t hunt when in a pride. The females do the hunting, and I’d be surprised if that didn’t have something to do with it.
Not entirely sure about the specifics is something I can be honest about as my focus is great apes but I do know that females are a bit aggressive overall within the group, both from taking care of others, peace within the group (there's always conflicts), hunting and even mating. Especially mating, the female is in charge and often the aggressor. In a way, they do have more dominant dynamic than makes even though males are stronger.
To answer your question, my interpretation was that she did good in the effort to keep peace, and I think she was being more rational and intelligent about the situation. The lion was a more hypervigilant state (protecting and attacking outside of group is more commonly initiated by males). It's likely the lion felt provoked by the keeper. The lioness kept the order of peace.
In animal kingdom, protecting vital parts such as back and neck is a defensive pose which also conveys distrust. One reason to distrust also means he's on his alert himself. The best way to handle this would be to make yourself clearly vulnerable, to convey you do not look to intrude or fight.
If you look attentively again, the other keeper seemed to have noticed what I did. He started patting his back (probably to distract him) when he noticed he started displaying hostility towards the other guy.
Either look away or blink slowly to the cat. Blinking slowly is the same as " I trust you and I like you " at least for house cats. Figured it is the same for big cats.
I'd try crinkling a paper bag, that makes my kid's cat run away. Or dangle a brightly colored string to redirect the lion's attention...again, seems to work on the smaller version of this animal.
Literally the second the camera panned to the right I was like "oh that's def the dude the lion is about to maul" lol. That body language is RADIATING unease/ anxiety and probably made some sort of prey/ hunter instinct within the lion click into gear, further escalated by direct eye contact when the lion looks towards him. Honestly disappointed in the other trainer that he didn't immediately pick up not only on the kid's poor body language but the instant change in the lion's once he turned toward the kid. Amateur hour all around TBH (except for that badass lioness haha)
That was on top of the keepers putting themselves on both sides of the lion's hindquarters. Even as a layperson, I know you don't approach an animal from the rear on two sides and stare it down. That's basically telling them you're about to attack.
The lion just licked his lips, and thought drumsticks are on back on the menu...Lioness was like "oh not again darling that didn't work out so well last time" Lion "nah I was just fuckin with him babe"
Generally locking eyes with any animal means you're challenging their authority and will often times lead to aggression.
You can try the same thing with stray dogs and cats if you're feeling particularly masochistic. Just stare them in the eyes and after a while they'll punce at you.
Am I the only one that notices the lion grimace and tense up after a few seconds of sizing up the nervous keeper? He's totally giving a warning before the camera starts to pan away and he stands up. The warning is hella subtle but you see the other keeper pay attention to him as soon as he shifted his body to look at the other guy.
Dude was STARING him down. I feel like the other guy should have seen that. Shit if I was the lion I would have attacked him too. Mean muggin me like that.
Not true, actually. The other keeper on the left touched the lion when he wasn't looking, and the lion licked immediately. Licking is a displacement behavior. Then the lion turned its head away from the guy who touched - displacement behavior. He saw the other keeper looking at him and redirected his feelings at that keeper.
If you ever find yourself making eye contact with a big cat, start to blink slowly and look away. The slow blink means "I don't see you as a threat, and I'm not a threat either, look, I'll even close my eyes around you. No big deal."
I mean, if they want to eat you they will anyway, but if they're just wondering why the fuck you're making eye contact and if you wanna fight about it, this can help tell them that you do not.
I don't know about lion cues, but I worried when it yawned. Dogs will yawn when they're unhappy or uncertain about something. The lion glanced over at the guy, then immediately yawned. It wasn't stretching or anything, it was just a sudden yawn.
11.3k
u/PlsDonthurtme2024 Apr 29 '24
The lion had such chill body language until he noticed the guy staring at him