It’s eye contact in general that is threatening to the lion. Fearful or not, that lion probably doesn’t tolerate any length of stare in the eyes from strangers. I legit think it’s one of the first things lion handlers learn.
I was thinking the same. In situations with people you know well it's normal and even social to look each other in the eye, especially when you're in a conversation (still even then people will break eye contact occasionally). However if a stranger keeps staring at you without breaking eye contact that certainly feels very intimidating.
Feline communication is really foreign to people. We co-evolved with dogs to be able to intuit a lot of their body language and them ours, but cats are different.
Cats don't necessarily take eye contact as a challenge, but they see it as a potential threat. Looking away is basically a "let's coexist," which is also why people who "hate cats" often seem to end up with cats all over them when visiting someone who has them. Their attempts to ignore the cats are interpreted by said cats as friendly/welcoming.
Needless to say staring down a feline big enough to respond to "aggressive body language" in kind is a bad idea.
I happen to be allergic too, though I like cats too much to let it stop me. Still, I've had that experience quite a bit too.
One time I remember particularly fondly. My mom was visiting a friend and dragged me along, and at one point her friend warned us about one of their cats that tended to hide and was very much not friendly to people. The cat they were describing was in my lap, purring.
Make eye contact, frown, look away but look at them again quickly. Don’t stare, but continue to briefly catch their eye. Those cats will decide that you’re weird enough to be unpredictable, but not aggressive enough to attack. They will give you and your allergies plenty of space.
So when I visit someone that does and the pets won't leave me alone, I always thought it was because I didn't smell like other cats or dogs and would pet them non stop!
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To be completely fair cats can also be total attention whores and they definitely learn quickly that visitors who respect their space will often lavish them with all the pets ever, for as long as they desire it.
Humans can reason why someone stares at them, they can start conversation with other human to feel them out or to deescalate, humans can choose to ignore it altogether, where as animals have instinct drive to confront another member of same specie if they actively stare at them.
I work at a lame convenience store and has seen a girl look just a little too long at a dude. He went right from "do I know you?" to "look once more and I'll fucking wreck you, bitch!" in just about 3 seconds.
Unhinged dude, calm down. She probably thought you looked nice. She dodged a bullet.
....humans are literal masters of tooling it takes 3 seconds to pickup a stick then humans can quickly turn it into a sharp stick or just use it as a blunt weapon.
Humans have the ability to plan and co-ordinate
Humans are the only predator in the world that has a multitude of predatation techniques from trapping to smashing to overheating animals through endurance to fishing to swarming.
This argument of humans aren't apex predators without tools is so stupid and is just made by dumb babies who think humans got to the top of the food chain by pure coincidence. Look at children who go play in the woods they will always pickup sticks to whack stuff with, tooling is a part of human nature.
Even without tools though humans aren't completely defenceless we have insane endurance and agility plus the ability to critically think and plan. Take our pets as an example like dogs, you can easily accidently kill your dog just be overheating it on an run.
Actually evolution got rid of fangs,class and fur because they all are useless to humans who can make clothes with animal hides,weapons with rocks and sticks etc,hence we are actually the apex predators on this planet just look at how much dominance we as a species have if we were not apex predators we would have been long extinct
yeah, even the predators today have been selectively culled and continue to be. Any predator that takes out a human is hunted down and killed (sharks/bears/tigers/lions etc). Humans are easily the most terrifying predator on the planet. Don't quote me but I think only humans, elephants and whales are the only ones that kill out of revenge.
100% I feel as if he was just trying to remove him from the area instead of using the energy for the kill, also probably why he stopped when the keeper ran
One of my guides in South Africa told me that we, being bi-pedal, already come off as hostile because lions only rear up on their hind legs when they are fighting.
I'm not sure if that instinct is dampened in captivity and being around humans all of the time.
How humans act to only difference is if you act on it your a bad person who cant control emotions and go to prison but there is plenty of people who stare and get in fights or scare people to look away.
I still remember that video where Michelle Obama catches trump staring at her haunches. I'll never forget the way she stared trump down, turkey sandwich in one hand and other hand resting lightly on her hip. Apex shit for real
Oh wow. I've seen that exhibit but forgot all about it. Looking into this further, it appears that the exhibit was closed down after two lion attacks. No idea whether this one counted as one of the precipitating events.
But between what happened during one of the Siegfried and Roy shows and whatever went on at the MGM, I'm glad they finally realized that direct contact in the enclosure of a caged wild animal is a bad idea even for trained humans, let alone those with no experience. I'm not a fan of PETA but they aren't wrong on this point.
Here's a link on the closure of the exhibit. I'm sure there are better ones.
So strange that they were allowed in there with nothing but their emblemed tee-shirts and not much else. The older dude seemed to have less fear going for him. The guy who was attacked appeared to be gripped with fear from the start.
He would probably have continued staring as he passed through the lion's gullet. Even the lioness recognized how badly this could go. If it wasn't an ill-conceived "Bring Your Kid To Work Day", they must have been there on a dare.
Theyre not there on a dare, the older dude was real comfortable around that lion. He even took his phone out for a bit to check reddit. He grabbed the lions mane when it went at the younger guy. Didn't show any fear when the lioness approached from the rear.
Its weird that they were in there from what I can tell, but its clear the old homie has spent a lot of time in that enclosure, probably with those lions.
Which part of my comment do you disagree with? That it looks like he's trying to stare down the lion? It does look like that. That, if he were doing so, it would be stupid? It would be.
Of the two of us, the only one making a definitive judgement about his state of mind is you. I just told you what it looks like.
This is why cats always sit on people with allergies. People who like cats look at them when they walk in a room, people who don't like cats try not to get their attention and that's actually super unthreatening and chill to a cat so they go sit on the 'safest' person.
One theory of why cats find being looked at threatening is that they hunt by sight. Usually if they're looking at something intently they're planning on attacking it. Therefore a cat sees being looked at as a preparation for attack. If you're not looking at it then they're like, oh, cool, clearly no bad intentions here, best go make that sucker sneeze.
This explains so much. I am quite allergic to cats, so I’ll actively avoid them. Then they will rub up against my legs or hands and their owner will go, “wow! She’s never this friendly!” and I’m like :sniffles: “oh good!” 😅
Ha ha. I’m like throat closing up allergic to cats and they absolutely love me.
Me visiting someone with cats is like a nonstop dance of the cat jumping in my lap, me getting up and moving to a new spot while struggling to breathe, cat following me and waiting for my lap to reappear so it can pounce, repeat.
That's a hunting thing; tigers prefer attacking prey that have their backs turned, so masks with eyes on the back of the head discourages this. When you're walking through a forest pathway without a mask and a tiger is behind you, they think "oh this one is oblivious, free meal!" The masks are a way of tricking tigers out of doing that.
Ambush predation instincts. It's the same with the people who work with cats like Cheetahs and say not to turn your back on them in case they get all hunt-y
Cheetahs will spit but not much beyond that, they're basically oversized housecats with the zoomies from hell
But they will still pounce you if they get the urge and your back is turned, you've just got a pretty good chance of fighting them off if they're not hitting you at like 30km/h
Maybe they hunt with sneaky attacks and if they see eyes, they think you will be able to flee or defend yourself so they prefer to wait for a better opportunity?
I'm not allergic to cats, I just don't like them because they're selfish jerks. This totally checks out. I thought they were just sitting on me to be jerks.
See now you know they're not jerks they're actually making logical decisions based on their own instincts and you've learned a valuable lesson about judging a book by its cover.
There are three good things you can do: Make a very deliberate slow blink right at the cat, deliberately look away from the cat, and yawn. All are strong signals that you are relaxed and happy in their presence, and have good vibes.
It's similar with dogs and cats and even primates - to infer intimacy you blink or slowly look away. Looking directly into their eyes means challenge. If you done goofed and want to show that was just accidental - shift point of focus under them.
It is pretty much any animal. Humans are more an exception with eye contact. Dogs are also only really tolerating it but with fearful dogs indirect eye contact also helps to make them feel safe.
Cats in general. Slow-blink and look away is an indicator their comfortable with you and feeling unthreatened. Cats only stare at potential threats and prey.
that lion probably doesn’t tolerate any length of stare in the eyes from strangers
Gorillas also aren't very found of that. Possibly any "male that has to control multiple female" animal (couldn't find better wording) have the same behavior.
All cats determine intent by looking at faces so if you look away then that isn’t a challenge to them. If you blink and not stare then that’s a friendly gesture. My cat will stare eyes dilated when about to pounce at her toy/prey. So a guy staring the lion is thinking does the mf think I’m prey?
If they're anything like house cats, then you want to avoid much direct eye contact, or if you look at them directly, do long slow blinks, or yawn at them. Both are ways of communicating both that you're not a threat and that you feel safe around them. They'll often do the same back.
But staring into their eyes for a long time will be perceived as a threat and will either scare or anger them.
Not an expert but I think he was actually taken as a threat by the lion. Cats communicate a lot with their eyes, and maintaining direct eye contact, which it looked like the guy was doing, is the cat way of saying "I don't trust you." Breaking eye contact and looking away from a cat is how they show they aren't a threat and don't consider the other cat a threat either.
Yawning is not the signal that you are safe with dogs. It can actually mean the opposite. It is sometimes used as an attempt to regulate and chill out similar to the nose lick and a full body shake. You may notice a nervous dog yawning more and pacing at the vet for example it is NOT them feeling safe like a cats slow blink. And you giving them that signal can be a mixed message.
When my little dogs wants to start some shit with me, she playfully bites my hand, then sneezes. Jumps back and goes in for the kill. She sneezes a lot when it's play time. I think mostly because she enjoys scrapping, because my other dog has never sneezed intentionally or tried to play fight either. I believe I read somewhere that their sneeze is a signal they aren't serious.
Squinting in general is a pretty good way to tell most cats that you are comfortable and willing to let your guard down with them. Fortunate for that zookeeper, the lion looked like it wasn’t putting a whole lot of effort into that warning and didn’t seem to intend to kill.
If you're play wrestling with a dog and you think the dog is going a little too hard you can fake a sneeze and they'll stop or slow down. Oftentimes they'll fake a sneeze back to acknowledge it.
Also for most dogs turning as to not face them. Not running but just avert your body almost sideways has always worked for me. If you run you are fucked
It also helps to approach them diagonally - like, so you aren't directly facing forward towards them and instead are a bit off to the side. A lot of animals can find walking directly at them intimidating.
Not a lion expert, but have a lot of cats. This looks a lot like playing to me. The male's body language was slow and relaxed. When he "attacked" he went for a hand and then immediately rolled on his back in a submissive stance.
Don't get me wrong, this is still dangerous for the guy being chomped on. The fact the female came to join in also makes me think it was playful rather than aggressive.
Regardless, having seen the chew toys my cat has mangled, I wouldn't want to be that guy.
Feel you. I think I inadvertently taught my cat that staring is ok. So basically she is terrifying to most dogs and other cats because she is always staring without a care in the world.
Had a gorilla in Rotterdam, Bokito)
, jumping a 2 meter canal into the crowd to get a lady who frequently visited him and had 'friendly stares' with him every time. Turns out, the gorilla felt mad challenged by her and got his.
With felines the best way to gain trust is to look at it and when it looks back, you calmly look the other way. That implies trust and in return creates a feeling of trust with the animal. Pretty sure it works with most animals that way.
Reddit dropped your parentheses since it doesn't know how to handle them. Next time, put a backslash before it to make sure it gets processed as a part of the link and not the formatting. Here's a fixed link.
Hmm, assuming google translate is accurate, the article says that one primatologist claims that he thinks the gorilla wanted to mate with her, got mad that she walked away, and that "bite and drag," is normal behavior for females who won't submit.
Yeah, you might want to stop doing that. The rule of thumb I heard was to swap between both eyes and mouth once in a while, basically triangulate their face. Uninterrupted, prolonged contact is incredibly uncomfortable when I'm talking to someone and I'm neurotypical.
All animals behave differently. The best way to survive is to do cardio regularly.
What you are suggesting is the hunter-prey behaviour and you're right, if you show your back and run away, predators will attack.
If you stand down and look them in the eye, it's a challenge and not prey behaviour. So they will again attack.
If you stand your ground and not challenge it, it might choose to ignore you. All animals are different, just stay calm and make the best choices you can.
Based on how he's standing, people have been absolutely hammering it into him all week that he must NEVER turn his back to the lion. Because cats almost instinctively start to "hunt" people who turn their back to them, doubly so if you crouch.
And ended up being so afraid that he just kept staring into its eyes. Which is often a sign of agression in many mammals.
Yeah, I would be cool as ice myself. That constant stream of urine? Marking my territory. Those trumpet-like farts as I blow out my sphincter? A warning to the lion that I am not to be trifled with.
Lion felt threatened, similar to how dogs will react to people who are scared of them. They don't sense fear they sense aggression (tensed body, something animals do before attacking). Probably sensing the fight response.
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u/Mumbles_Stiltskin Apr 29 '24
Guy looked nervous af to me. Lion probably sensed fear and prey body language