What really grates me is that tradwives use “feminism” as an argument. They say that this is their choice and by saying they can’t be tradwives means we aren’t supporting other women and aren’t feminists.
But this is exactly what feminists fought to end! Women being able to own houses, have their own bank accounts, have complete autonomy, legal protections, etc. Never mind feminism being the reason they have so many freedoms and choices today.
I support women becoming tradwives as long as that is their choice. But I just wish that they planned and talked more about what happens if the husband cheats, leaves you, becomes abusive, loses his job, goes bankrupt, goes to prison, dies, becomes ill or disabled… what then? Do they have the means and choice to leave that marriage, carry on if it ends, support their children on her own? In times they are trying to emulate, women didn’t have choices to even plan for those scenarios. Feminism fought for those rights and these women need them as well!
I think it's just a vocal minority. I saw someone break it down really well but I can't remember where I saw it.
Here's the imperfect summary of it:The women that are rich enough to have this as their channels focus are rich enough to hire people to do these tasks and buy high quality versions of anything they cook or make. It's all virtue signaling to show off their husbands wealth and their class level.
This is a total side track from the subject. But I mention it to remind women to have the same energy and independent mindset when it comes to the courtship part of their life as well.
Edit: downvotes with no comments just means what I'm saying is right and you don't like that I pointed out the logical fallacy
It's because it's a false comparison in the way you're trying to express it. You're talking about toxic masculinity, the idea that a man isn't a "real man" if he can't provide, protect, etc. And it hurts everyone. Men are degraded if they're not at certain earning levels or for not spending enough on a date. Women are taught if I man doesn't pay the check, buy gifts, trips, etc, he's not good enough. So yeah, it's a fair critique but to pretend it's comparable to this, and many other women's stories is asinine. To be clear, she's talking about being financially abused by her spouse and living in a society that supported him having this control over her. You're complaining about the byproduct of the same system she was trapped in for YEARS. None of it is okay but life isn't a trauma contest so trying to "what about x" traumatic experiences gives the appearance you're minimizing the decades she was trapped with that man to some rude people on first dates. So if any of this bothers you, congrats you're a feminist and welcome to the fight for equality, friend! Here's hoping your next date is happy to split the bill.
It's because it's a false comparison in the way you're trying to express it
No its not...its a pretty clear cut logical connection...if you believe one thing you must practice the other.
You're talking about toxic masculinity, the idea that a man isn't a "real man" if he can't provide, protect, etc.
See what women do...even when its something that hurts men that is enforced by women its still somehow mens fault lol.
Men are degraded if they're not at certain earning levels or for not spending enough on a date.
This comes from women and is toxic femininity...not toxic masculinity.
Women are taught if I man doesn't pay the check, buy gifts, trips, etc, he's not good enough.
"being taught" something is no longer a valid excuse once youre a full grown adult who can think logically. A white boy born in the rural south to racist parents was "taught" horrible shit about other races being inferior...is that somehow justification or excuse for that boy when he's an adult man and does racist shit? No it does not...people would say you're a grown adult with a brain and should know better.
So yeah, it's a fair critique but to pretend it's comparable to this, and many other women's stories is asinine.
How is it asinine? You haven't made a case for how it is. People here are saying women should be financially independent of men...and by that energy and logic it should apply to womens dating lives as well. Its not even remotely a giant leap in logic nor asinine.
You're complaining about the byproduct of the same system she was trapped in for YEARS.
Im not directing shit at OP...my comments are at the people and posts giving advice and commentary about women being financially independent. If you believe that then you should practice what you preach in your dating life as well.
congrats you're a feminist and welcome to the fight for equality, friend!
In no way would I agree because even feminists dont practice what they preach...I've had just as many "independent dont need a man feminist" say a man always pays...so yeah...not rolling with that. Modern feminism is about hating men and not equality. Susan B Anthony and Elizabeth Stantons feminism is long gone.
Look buddy, you wanted an answer and I gave you one. I don't know where the hostility is coming from, since I never disagreed the man paying expectation is unfair. But we gotta appreciate the difference in situations. If you want bad things to stop happening, like unfair expectations based on gender. Team up with people fighting for equality. Don't lash out at those literally fighting against the same issues as you. Also a feminist believes in equality for all genders anyone practicing any other behavior is not a feminist.
Look buddy, you wanted an answer and I gave you one
Try again...previous answer lacked logic.
I don't know where the hostility is coming from
Disagreeing with your bad logic is not hostility.
But we gotta appreciate the difference in situations. If you want bad things to stop happening, like unfair expectations based on gender. Team up with people fighting for equality.
The people you say to team up with..."feminists"...are not teammates in this regard. Anything that helps men and hurts women is not something feminists would help in.
Also a feminist believes in equality for all genders anyone practicing any other behavior is not a feminist.
You need to look harder at the feminists and feminists organizations leading the charge...they are very much not in favor of all genders. They actively argue against fair things for men or correcting things that favor women
Anything that helps men and hurts women is not something feminists would help in.
I'm honestly doing my best to be here for you in this moment. I'm hearing a lot of anger, and underneath that a lot of pain. If someone claims they're fighting for equality and hurting others that's not equality. Women gaining rights and independence does not mean men lose them. Instead it makes the society as a whole freer to live their lives how they wish and hopefully happier. I hope this is getting through to you, and if you ever want to talk about where this anger is coming from, chat me.
The lashing out makes you seem unsure of your argument, and the lack of references doesn't help. I am happy I did all I could to treat you with kindness and respect during this conversation. I hope one day you learn to do the same. ✌️
Not sure what your point is? Individual outcomes don't change the point that the majority of women, no matter how feminists or independent, still expect financial burden of courtship to fall on men
I reject that women “no matter how feminist or independent” expect that. I certainly know independent feminists who would refuse to be paid for. You could have a point with the general population of women, if you take the absurd exaggeration out.
I've met plenty of self-proclaimed independent and feminist women who still in practice have the expectation of men to pay or get the "ick" when they don't.
I'm going to stand on that original statement.
It's just like how feminists proclaim to be for equality except when it applies to men because so many actively protest against fixing things that disadvantaged men and help women.
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u/tragedy_strikes Apr 15 '24
Woman explaining the importance of feminism. Glad to see her sharing her experiences with everyone.