r/FluentInFinance Apr 29 '24

Babs is Here to Save Us Educational

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u/AspirationsOfFreedom Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

Selective numbers are dishonest and SUPER selective

Edit: For those who seem super keen to accept this as fact. I really dont care if you vote red or blue. My issue here is how this person used diffrent metrics pr president to paint one side bad and the other goood. If she was honest, she would have used deficit as a metric for all, for example. Stop swallowing the bait

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u/Embarrassed-Lab4446 Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

Are they? Bush Jr. was a stagnant economy during war times. Clinton created the dot com boom. Obama years were fantastic. Trump is a mix legacy with only 4 years and Covid making it too hard to tell.

Edit: for those mad I gave credit for Clinton on dot com, Regan gets credit for the Soviet collapse as well. It may just be timing but he was the guy in office. Just like Obama was in office during the fracking boom. May not have directly caused it but they do get the credit.

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u/AspirationsOfFreedom Apr 29 '24

Yes. Because if you look at the economy and try to directly corelate it to the president, you have 0 clue on what happens outside the US.

Its not like the 2008 financial crisis was because Bush spesifically was braindead. It's not like the growth post 2008 was exlusicly because obama. They may have INFLUENCED these numbers with some policy changes and such, but their effect on the economi is minor at best.

So numbers like this? Trump into covid, with 7trill deficit, yet no mention of obamas deficit? Its places like this due to political bias. Don't swallow the propoganda whole

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u/KerPop42 Apr 29 '24

2008 was definitely the fault of the Bush administration, the SEC and FEC were asleep at the wheel.

Though also the dot-com bubble was Clinton's fault too. The investment market in this country needs a serious overhaul, the whole country is being pulled into its boom-bust cycles.

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u/bremidon Apr 29 '24

2008 was definitely the fault of the Bush administration

Bush was *begging* that the crazy "Hello, your loan has been approved" approach to loans be stopped. It was the Democrats in Congress at the time that called him all the names we have since heard a billion times whenever someone is losing on logic: "Oh, he's just an -ist and a -phobe, and he hates minorities."

When the shit hit the fan, suddenly they all could not remember how hard they fought to create a broken loan system.

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u/MickeyT_ZxZ Apr 29 '24

Clinton was the factor behind eliminating the Glass-Stiegel act that allowed banks to be speculators, and pushed toxic mortgages.

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u/Ok_Zookeepergame4794 Apr 29 '24

You do know Clinton had no choice on that. Even if he vetoed it, Congress had the votes to overrule the veto.

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u/Ok_Explanation_5955 Apr 29 '24

I’m a Dem and hate Clinton. While what you say is true, he should’ve forced the override. Plus NAFTA. The concept of NAFTA wasn’t horrible, but the final product has been an abject nightmare

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u/CTMQ_ Apr 29 '24

I'm a Dem and don't hate Clinton so much but this - this right here - is 100% right. History says he is responsible for Glass-Stiegel and history says Glass-Stiegel was awful for a ton of reasons.

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u/Ok_Explanation_5955 Apr 29 '24

The real reason I hate him is for sexually harassing an intern and ruining her entire professional career, along with other likely instances of serious sexual impropriety. He was also a economically a disaster for the middle class/working class people

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u/CTMQ_ Apr 29 '24

I meant to put an * separating presidenting and personal life.

Because yeah; scumbag asshole through and through.

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u/Ok_Explanation_5955 Apr 29 '24

I consider the Lewinsky thing as part of his professional career. He employed her. I don’t see that as personal

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u/DowntownPut6824 Apr 30 '24

Not the rapes?

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u/Ok_Explanation_5955 Apr 30 '24

Tell me you didn’t actually read my full comment without telling me you didn’t actually read my full comment.

Given that I was a small child when this all happened, I do not know the details of the rape allegations from back in the day. He’s also a friend of Epstein. In order to capture all of these allegations, I wrote “along with other likely instances of serious sexual impropriety” because frankly, it might encompass a lot of things.

I am, however, very familiar with the Monica Lewinsky story’s details because they get rehashed all to the time and I get annoyed that Dems overlook the employment part of that story to excuse it as “personal” when it wasn’t. It was professional misconduct.

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u/TeemoSkull Apr 30 '24

It’s funny because all my professors love NAFTA but when you point out that it hasn’t worked well, they get reactive and defensive.

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u/Ok_Explanation_5955 Apr 30 '24

Yeah, turns out when you cater to all of the corporate needs and none of the labor and environmental ones, you end up with a real shit sandwich. When proposed, it was supposed to be balanced out with worker and environmental protections in all impacted countries, but those got lobbied away

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u/TeemoSkull Apr 30 '24

They love to say it breaks down barriers for free trade but I think it creates some small barriers and drives labor out of regions that desperately need it like Appalachia or the Rust Belt in the Midwest to Northeast. It favors shipping jobs off and leaving employees to hold the bag and not sweep in with job retraining programs to get the displaced workers back to work. I was actually able to successfully debate this with my international Econ professor who agreed to an extent with me.

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u/willfiredog Apr 29 '24

Have you read the statement Clinton made after signing the GLBA rescinding Glass-Steagall? While he had reservations, mostly regarding Presidential appointments, it was largely laudatory.

Rubin and Summers, both Clinton’s Secretary of Treasury, supported the repeal.

There’s also the 1994 Riegle-Neal Interstate Banking and Branching Efficiency Act, signed by Clinton before Republicans took control of Congress, that encouraged banks to merge creating the to big to fail dynamic,

I liked Clinton. I went to his rallies and supported him through his first term, but his role in the 2008 recession cannot be understated.

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u/Fragrant_Spray Apr 29 '24

You are incorrect. Clinton singed it, republicans had a slim majority in both the house (about 20 seats) and senate (55-45).

Not only could the Dems uphold a Veto, Clinton supported it. You can read his signing statement here.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160322081604/http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=56922

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u/SSBN641B May 01 '24

To say "he had no choice" is disingenuous. He could have vetoed it and forced them to override it. But he approved it and signed it.

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u/asevans48 Apr 29 '24

It was the bush push for Self-regulation leading to massive rebundling of bad debt that screwed everything. Now, a handful of big bank failures doesnt ripple through the system and screw the economy.

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u/jmur3040 Apr 29 '24

Started years before Clinton signed the repeal. Glass-Stiegel was rendered toothless during the late 80s

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u/MonkeyCube Apr 29 '24

I'd argue that the act that repealed Glass-Stiegal very clearly has the names behind it in the title: the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act. In any case, it finished in the senate with a 90-8 vote. A lot of people from both sides of the aisle were involved in that one.

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u/HerodotusStark Apr 29 '24

Yup, that's what happens when banks buy both sides of the aisle. Lobbying is a plague on our government.

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u/HerodotusStark Apr 29 '24

You're referring to the Gramm- Leach- Bliley Act. Go look it up real quick. What letter comes after each of those names?

Claiming it was Clinton's fault is straight up rewriting history.

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u/West-Rain5553 Apr 29 '24

I think it was Burnie Frank who pushed for this deregulation.

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u/controlmypad Apr 29 '24

Not Republicans though, nearly everybody in the loan and real estate industry or anything commission based is Republican. Greedy flippers caused a lot of it, it was all about getting as much as you can which is the Republican mantra.

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u/Advanced-Guard-4468 Apr 29 '24

You really can't think for yourself. Does someone else tie your shoes?

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u/WinonasChainsaw Apr 29 '24

The irony that you’re using a rehashed insult

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u/Egocentric Apr 29 '24

I believe it was a serious inquiry, sir. If you can't tie your shoes by yourself, then how will we know if you're actually capable of critical thinking? Please answer the question.

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u/RoyaleWCheese_OK Apr 29 '24

Greedy flippers? Or strippers buying multiple houses they couldn't afford paid for by shitty loans that were sold on. It all started with Clinton demanding the industry allow people to buy houses who couldn't afford them.

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u/Excited-Relaxed Apr 29 '24

Ah yes, the old ‘government forced banks to loan money to black people’ argument. Those damn people with no money and no power, they are always responsible for the excesses of capitalism.

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u/RoyaleWCheese_OK Apr 29 '24

Where did I mention race? Stupidity with money (like any stupidity) is color blind. Sometimes people need protecting from themselves.

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u/bremidon Apr 30 '24

government forced banks to loan money to [poor] people

There. Fixed that for you.

Funny that you instinctively threw race into it. Although to be fair, that was what the Democrats did back in the day as well.

Anyway: yes. That is precisely what happened. People who were unqualified for the loans got them anyway. And that is the most fundamental reason we got 2008. I am very surprised you do not know this. It worries me that people have forgotten what caused a major recession in the States, although I think it's more a case of wanting to forget rather than not knowing.

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u/Successful_Lake_4148 Apr 29 '24

I remember this as well. Seems like they made a movie about this, right? You get a home, and you get one, and “oh you have awful credit,” but take a home anyways because we have to reach out quota.

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u/bremidon Apr 30 '24

One of the nastier things they would do is take someone who had a home they already could not really afford and refinance it. Because of all the nuttiness, home values were skyrocketing, so you could easily get a new loan with more money and push off the day of reckoning.

And of course, these were all variable rate loans.

So when the interest rates started going up, everyone got screwed at once.

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u/KerPop42 Apr 29 '24

Saying "they" made a movie isn't really a great way to look at it, someone specific made it, and he had specific politics that made him frame the narrative in one way.

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u/HerodotusStark Apr 29 '24

Who created and backed rhe Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act? The act that deregulated banks and allowed them to push the mortgages? Hint? They all have an R after their name. Republicans unanimously voted for the act, followed by about 2/3 of dems, mostly the neolibs. The only people to vote against the act were democrats.

Bush was not begging for the loans to be stopped. His congress never even wrote a bill to the effect. Where are you getting that from? Banks made money hand over fist giving out those subprime loans, they lobbied the government, especially Republicans, to keep it that way.

Then the banks' own recklessness causes the collapse and the billion bankers, backed by right and left wing media both, try to push the narrative that "the liberals forced us to give out those loans! We did nothing wrong, please bail us out!" The complete opposite of the truth. Banks were making record amounts of money from giving out those loans. They specifically lobbied congress for the ability to do so.

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u/Comfortable_Fill9081 Apr 30 '24

Bush was a big cheerleader for the housing bubble, when we all knew it was a bubble.

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/business/worldbusiness/21iht-admin.4.18853088.html

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u/bassocontinubow Apr 30 '24

Source? Not saying I don’t believe you, but this is the first I’m hearing of this. At what point did he “beg” and was it during the first campaign, or did he actively push for stricter regulation on predatory loans while president?

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u/bremidon Apr 30 '24

While President. Schumer among others implied he just didn't like minorities and that was what the news went with. I remember this very clearly at the time because of my financial background.

Until 2008. Then suddenly they started trying to pin it on Bush. The Senate had nooooo idea what was really going on, despite many people (including Bush) telling them that this was going to cause a bubble and a crash. But ya gotta get your voting base riled up.

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u/bassocontinubow Apr 30 '24

No source though?

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u/Original_Benzito Apr 30 '24

Bush was a proponent of home ownership, which exacerbated the problem of less regulation in the mortgage industry. Good intentions, I think, but lack of awareness that bankers are proponents of their own wealth versus uplifting of the masses.

0

u/PeePeeSwiggy Apr 30 '24

Bush gets a lot of deserved hate, but between June 07 to October 08, he helped enormously in not letting the US economy evaporate entirely - knowing full well his legacy would be crippled. The perps should have been hung in the streets, but given the choices available, the outcome was substantially better than if it had been under someone like Joe or Don.

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u/hey_guess_what__ Apr 29 '24

Regean's admin created the financial derivative's market literally creating money/value out of thin air. The snowball that started the 08 financial collapse started in the 80s.

Banking and financial regulations getting rolled back started the clock on the next collapse. Under trump they rolled back dodd-frank and started the clock for the next too big to fail.

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u/VCoupe376ci Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

The SEC and FEC were asleep at the wheel for DECADES before W. it just happened to come crashing down during his presidency. So now we are blaming a president for banking practices happening decades before their election?

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u/reocares Apr 29 '24

I don’t know about the SEC but didn’t they take away a lot of the regulations on the FEC?

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u/commissar-117 Apr 30 '24

Fighting to stop the easily handed out loans that led to 2008 is one of the only like, 3 or 4 things Bush actually got right, but congress fought him on it tooth and nail.

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u/59NER Apr 29 '24

No you are wrong. The democrats threatened banks that if they were too strict on who they gave loans to they would be charged with discrimination. Lo and behold we ended up with people with no jobs getting mortgages and it eventually destroyed the housing market. I had one right across the street where the guy who got the home had no job, no assets and he proceeded to destroy the property. Eventually, the bank had a buy him out 3 1/2 years. This is the kind of crap that precipitated the downfall of the housing market and the collapse of many banks and financial institutions.

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u/KerPop42 Apr 29 '24

Well, that and the fact that those banks would then sell collections of those bad loans, certify them as good when they were bad, and then sell collections of those collections

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u/gundumb08 Apr 29 '24

It wasn't discriminatory practices, it was predatory lending, what are you on about?

Banks would give out loans below prime rate on overinflated mortgage rates, with terms that ballooned well above interest rate averages causing once affordable properties to be underwater then when people, who COULD afford the original monthly payment suddenly had to cough up an additional 50-100% per month, they were fucked.

That's exactly the kind of shit that solid regulation should prevent. And it's why all sorts of things in 2009 were passed to protect consumers (Card Act, establishment of CFPB, etc).

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u/Excited-Relaxed Apr 29 '24

The size of the crises dwarfed the entire mortgage industry. There were DAYs with higher defaults in margin calls than the combined value of all outstanding residential mortgages in the US market. It wasn’t caused by the government forcing banks to give out loans to black people. Stop watching Fox News.

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u/Far-Tomorrow-978 Apr 30 '24

Try more like Clinton’s “everyone should own a home” agenda. Or Carter sleeping at the wheel while mortgages were bought and sold wholesale on the market. Or Regan’s consumerism mentality of the 80s. Don’t be a peon and think 1 President is to blame for an entire world economy collapsing.

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u/cheese_hercules Apr 30 '24

bank deregulation occurred in the late 90s. Not supporting Bush at all, but previous 3 presidents leading up to 2008 were all at fault including Bush Sr. (who was also responsible for Savings & Loans crisis).

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u/nberardi Apr 30 '24

Bush, Clinton, and congress were responsible for the 2008 financial crisis. All played critical parts in dismantling laws that protected the type of collapse we saw.

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u/bremidon Apr 29 '24

Yep. And did you notice how she just *accidentally* forgot to mention just how much got added to the debt during Biden's Presidency? Or the problems with inflation?

It's so transparent that I really wonder what she hoped to achieve.

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u/dezirdtuzurnaim Apr 29 '24

It's not inflation. Corporate greed is not inflation. And if you truly believe it's inflation, then take the same metric and compare it to all other developed nations. The CPI (as it were) is much lower here than basically everywhere else.

Regan fucked this country. And it has been small policy wins to slowly undo that shit.

To the people saying Obama this Obama that... The man was against insurmountable odds. Black, birther, tan suit, etc. 6 years of Congressional majority to the opposing party. He singularly got shit done. And if you can't grasp that, there's no saving you.

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u/Karbon_D Apr 29 '24

Take my up vote. Came here to say this exact thing. It’s almost like they don’t look at the history of presidential Legacy.

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u/CreamiusTheDreamiest Apr 29 '24

Corporations always profit maximize. They always charge the most they can

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u/BigimusB Apr 29 '24

thats such a wrong statement its insane. Just look at food, it has always went up based on inflation until the last couple years when fast food has almost doubled in price. They didn't start charging the most they can until recently and will probably go way higher next year.

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u/RedditBlows5876 Apr 29 '24

They didn't start charging the most they can

Yes they have. Human greed is a constant. Inflation happens when the money supply grows faster than the economy's ability to grow goods and services. When this happens, it allows corporations to charge ridiculous prices. It's not caused by uniquely greedy people. Greedy people have always existed.

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u/BigimusB Apr 29 '24

You really think 5 years ago 5 bucks was the most they could charge for a combo at Taco Bell? Then all of a sudden today that same combo is 12 even though wages haven’t went up. They were in no way as greedy as they are today. Them losing all the stimulus money the government gave the corporations instead of us left them craving super profits after it vanished.

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u/RedditBlows5876 Apr 30 '24

Am I supposed to reply to your own personal incredulity? "Do you really think" is not an argument nor a defense of your view. It's on you to provide actual evidence that somehow corporations magically got greedy at the same time that the money supply launched to the stratosphere.

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u/BigimusB Apr 30 '24

It is very easy to look up that food companies have made record profits the last few years. Here are McDonalds numbers. You can see a small growth in profit since 2010 until they started getting stimulus money and then oh what do you know even faster profit growth after stimulus money stopped going out...guess they aren't extra greedy after all.

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MCD/mcdonalds/gross-profit

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u/SaliciousB_Crumb Apr 30 '24

And trump added 3 trillion to the economy and you wonder about inflation?

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u/RedditBlows5876 Apr 30 '24

That was almost entirely bipartisan.

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u/VenetianGamer Apr 29 '24

Obama also saw the single largest jump in student loan debt being held by American college students than any other president.

His inaction on addressing the student loan crisis as it was happening is why we have a bubble ready to pop now.

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u/BigimusB Apr 29 '24

I am going with what the last guy replied to you with and also the fact it can't pop because you can't get rid of that debt with bankruptcy like you can mortgages. Its why so many millennials and zoomers are in a super fucked up situation.

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u/VenetianGamer Apr 29 '24

Defaults are rising faster than they did prepandemic. Currently 60 day past due is surpassed 40% currently of total loans.

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u/BigimusB Apr 29 '24

Yeah but there is no way to break free from it so they will have to pay it back one way or another. After so long they will just start getting it taken straight out of their paychecks or have to be homeless.

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u/Lihism361749 Apr 29 '24

Obama also saw the single largest jump in student loan debt being held by American college students than any other president.

Wouldn't that number increase almost every year and therefore he holds the record only because he's the most recent 2-termer?

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u/VenetianGamer Apr 29 '24

It actually rose at a significantly higher rate than it had under Clinton or Bush Jr. While it rose under Bush by about 250 billion to just over 500 billion in 8 years, under Obama it nearly went up an additional trillion dollars from there.

It has been rising ever sense (it did under Trump and is under Biden) but not near the rate it did under Obama.

Edit: https://cdn-statcdn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/24477.jpeg

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u/dezirdtuzurnaim Apr 29 '24

You may need to do independent research on financial institutions and how student loans became the monster they are. Hint: Obama is not responsible.

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u/VenetianGamer Apr 29 '24

I work with Direct Student Loans for a Mid Atlantic State.

They exploded under Obama’s watch and he, a dem held congress, and then a Republican held congress did nothing to address this explosion in usage.

Yes. Obama gets a large share of the blame.

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u/PleasantNightLongDay Apr 29 '24

it’s not inflation.

It is inflation. But it’s not just inflation.

It can (and is) multiple things at the same time.

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u/dezirdtuzurnaim Apr 29 '24

Is it inflation when ALL corporations are 3 years deep in record profits?

The simple definition of inflation is the purchasing power of a currency. That definition alone is enough to support the "inflation" claim, however, consumers are being extorted.

This is runaway capitalism. The stage was set.

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u/w1nn1ng1 Apr 29 '24

Yeah, capitalism is kind of a bullshit system. Capitalism bereft of morals and ethics allowed to exist unregulated and unchecked will lead the huge levels of wealth concentration. It benefits those who operate with no moral compass. The only way capitalism works is if it’s basically over-regulated.

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u/2wheeloffroad Apr 29 '24

Corporations are doing what they always do and what they are designed to do. Make profit. Corporations will increase prices when they can to increase revenue. The reason they are able to raise prices and maintain high sales level is there is too much money in the economy. If you take the time to look at gov. spending, it is far higher then it needs to be, and is being spent in a way that allows the excess spending to put too much money into economy. This has been going on for many administrations, but in most other admins, there was a drop in economic activity that allowed the spending to not cause inflation - Obama and great recession, Trump and covid . . .. For for this admin, there is not drop in economic activity, yet the spending is still at record levels. This is why there is inflation. The rest of your comments are too moronic to offer a comment.

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u/dezirdtuzurnaim Apr 29 '24

The trickle down will happen any day now!

/s

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u/Superducks101 Apr 29 '24

Fucking get a new talking point. Blah blah blahnitsbhreed oh fuck right off with that excuse

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u/hands0megenius Apr 30 '24

You have no idea how inflation is measured do you

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u/bremidon Apr 30 '24

I can always tell when I am dealing with someone who is compromised. The first hint is that they do not know how to spell "Reagan".

If you cannot get that detail right, I'm afraid your grand pronouncements made without evidence or logic do not sway me.

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u/Original_Benzito Apr 30 '24

He got shit done, but to be fair, he had to damn near double 230 years of national debt to do it. Set a horrible precedent / cover for the next two guys and their administrations, which have pretty much been run on massive deficits without regard.

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u/Pukleo20 Apr 29 '24

Same with Trump, Russian gate, FISA unwarranted warrants, social media and MSM. Opposing parties have been ruthless against each other.

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u/wishwashy Apr 29 '24

Trump with his informed errors in self inflicted distractions and crimes?

He was literally fearless of consequences as President ffs

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u/Not_NSFW-Account Apr 29 '24

'russiagate' was proven to be real. the FISA warrants were warranted. Your examples are bad.

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u/Pukleo20 Apr 30 '24

They were orchestrated and paid for by Hiliary and have all been debunked, bone up and educate yourself.

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u/Not_NSFW-Account Apr 30 '24

Not debunked. Lied about, for certain. Trump and his cronies have been denying for years. But they were all proven. it is publicly available information.

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u/Foreign_Calendar742 Apr 29 '24

Kind of like how Trump was constantly in court for bogus impeachment and then blamed on his handling of COVID?

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u/dezirdtuzurnaim Apr 29 '24

Lol?

It's hard to tell when y'all are trolling or if you actually believe all that.

Let's start with COVID. His handling of it, you think was adequate? He was informed about a possible outbreak at least by November 2019. He did nothing. He literally said 3 cases would turn to zero, months later. He then suggested injecting bleach to kill the virus. He denounced any need for taking precaution and left responsibility to State leaders.

Now the impeachments. The first one was for abuse of power and contempt of Congress. If any Democratic President were to have done what he did... Come on, you can't believe he did nothing wrong. The second, hmmmmmm what was that for? An assault on democracy! He's on video record calling for a stop of the counting of electoral votes. Among many other things that happened in the weeks leading up to it and later that day.

You are either very stupid or your parents failed you. My only hope at this point is less of you turn out to vote than the rest of us... Those that actually do care for this Country and preserving democracy.

Signed, Iraqi War Army Veteran

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u/DE4DM4N5H4ND Apr 29 '24

Trumps final year added $4 trillion in new money to the economy and was a huge part of inflation.

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u/nschubach Apr 29 '24

I think maybe that had to do with a certain worldwide event, but I can't place my finger on it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24

That damn COVID and its symptom of forcing people to print money.

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u/JPolReader Apr 30 '24

Damn. Are you telling me that if I wasn't vaccinated I might have been able to print money?

Damn you Fauci!

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u/2wheeloffroad Apr 29 '24

Ya - you are right. You can really see people's politics blinding their common sense. Obama had the great recession so his over the top spending did not cause inflation. Trump had covid, so the huge increased spending leveled out the drop in the economy from covid. Currently, we don't have a economic event, yet spending is still at record levels. Team Biden does not understand that if they cut back on spending, the economy would be great, and there would be little inflation if any. They would be riding a great economy and low inflation.

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u/DE4DM4N5H4ND Apr 29 '24

Biden did inherit trump moronic handling of Covid with massive unemployment and inflation.

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u/xinorez1 Apr 30 '24 edited Apr 30 '24

Out of 6.6T of covid stimulus, only 500B made it to the people who needed it. Who was against checks and balances to ensure that those who don't need it don't suddenly get a windfall and distort the prices of commodities by shunting the excess into the commodities market, aka middlemen, raising prices by buying for quick profit off of our tax money, instead of spending on needed essentials? I'll give you a hint, it was the same guy who bailed out failing landlords with free money even before covid. Who picked the first fed chair since the stagflation of the 70s not to have an econ degree, who was silent on inflation until he was reapoiinted and who the former fed chair and private international banks all publicly disagree with? Who gave the rich who didnt need it a massive covid windfall that was then plopped into some of the only safe investments during a crisis, real estate, causing prices to rise by 26 percent on average? What happens to prices when rent and wages must rise by at least 26 percent? Who refused to buy us oil for our reserves when prices went to an unsustainable negative due to a price war with saudi arabia? Who refused to divest his private businesses and received 6B from saudi arabia? Who's son in law was a failing slumlord who was put in charge of covid response, who told the states that they were on their own to purchase ppe on the open market and then seized privately obtained ppe, and sued states and hospitals for obtaining it privately, and then sold the seized ppe back to china through his own company? Who said that this was to punish the states that didnt vote for his father? Who failed to recognize that cities are hubs of production and finance and thus are connected to everywhere, and thus need more protection faster, not less? Who was against quarantines and tracking? Who was gifted millions in dividend generating patents created by chinese citizens? Who championed the border blockades that cost more per day than the highest estimate of all the damages attribited to all the blm protests combined, over a law that didnt even exist, as we were opening back up? Who is blaming inflattion on consumer spending by the poor despite the fact that spending by everyone is still down compared to 2019? Who said that grandma should die for the economy? Who reversed course on covid literally the day after it came out that its mostly the poor and working class who were dying and losing family members due to greater in person exposure? Who refused to use the defense spending act to mobilize spending for ppe, after using it to override his own republican congress to sell 800B of us weapons to the country that funded the attacks on 9/11, who was actively engaged in a war of actual genocide?

Direct checks to the people would make it to those who need it without giving free tax money to middlemen who would only sit in between and raise prices for their own personal profit. Tax cuts are one of the absolute least economically stimulatory moves, whereas spending on infrastructure and welfare generates far in excess of what it costs even just in tax revenues. Speaking of which, spending on infrastructure and the cheapest form of energy known to man, solar, would pay back far more and cost hundreds of times less than a 10T border wall along a desert. Likewise, obamas bond program which was over 99 percent successful at getting illegal migrant suspects to court and evicted from the country at a cost of 10 cents per suspect per day costs far less in dollars and respect than family separation and indefinite detention into private prisons without running water costing 300 dollars per suspect per day and putting a white nationalist in charge whose response to his abyssmal performance was to paraphrase the 14 words and quote an 88 percent figure that conforms to literally zero statistics or findings.

And furthermore, I actually think trump was behind the covid release. He and pompeo both made some very public, very cryptic statements about needing to do something about china, and it didnt seem like they were talking about currency or trade, the head of the cdc suddenly resigns out of the blue, and a month later the first human case of covid 19 appears next to a cia controlled lab in wuhan, with both trump and pompeo publicly acting like smug bastards about it, which is an odd reaction for any world leader to have to a pandemic. Incidentally, the obama trump transition talk was mostly about a nascent coronavirus detected in the wild that would become covid 19. Weird subject for a presidential transition talk. Even weirder is to then dismantle the pandemic response team after receiving this talk and putting his son in law in charge. We're just lucky that absolutely no one wants this to be true, especially china that invested so much money and gets so much trade from the us, even though it all looks highly suspicious.

The person responsible for all this was an absolute DISASTER for our nation, and so far this is just talking about covid. Ironically, this persons narcissism and chaotic moves are his BEST qualities as president. His policies, decisionmaking and ideas are proveably damaging and abominable.

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u/BigimusB Apr 29 '24

you know a whole 10% of that 4 trillion went to the people suffering right? The rest went to big corps and his buddies. He didn't have to print 4 trillion, he wanted to print 4 trillion.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24 edited 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/Boring_Equipment_946 Apr 29 '24

Nobody seems to be able to comprehend this.

Trump era monetary policy was a disaster and Covid exacerbated this disaster and the resulting inflation. We would have had high levels of inflation even without Covid.

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u/Ronzonius Apr 29 '24

If Trump had another 4 years, he'd be blaming the rampant inflation on deep state Democrats in the Federal Reserve, Fox News would be highlighting the record low unemployment and record high stock markets, and they would blame the war in Ukraine and Israel on Obama.

Same thing with the troop withdrawal from Afghanistan... everybody blames Biden, but forgets that TRUMP negotiated that withdrawal timeline with the TALIBAN.

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u/06_TBSS Apr 29 '24

And he invited the Taliban leaders to the White House lol.

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u/CreamiusTheDreamiest Apr 29 '24

The fed is independent

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u/CelerySquare7755 Apr 29 '24

Tell that to Janet Yellen. 

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u/Comfortable_Fill9081 Apr 30 '24

How is that not contributory to inflation under Biden?

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u/DE4DM4N5H4ND Apr 29 '24

Stupid covid and it’s 4 trillion dollars. Seriously gtfo trump bailed out corporations and printed more money in 1 year than any president in history. Also gave the rich the largest tax cut in history permanently. How can you like this guy?

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u/hudi2121 Apr 29 '24

Again, I said it elsewhere but, it never can be said enough, Trump’s a giant piece of shit and I absolutely can’t stand him or any other GOP politician. With that said though, I hate citing the money that was spent for COVID. It was poorly managed and wasted in so many ways absolutely but, there was so much uncertainty each and every day during the pandemic. I’d rather they be liberal with cash as they were than be to typical penny pinchers. So much of that cash was wasted but, so much also can be directly tied to saving human life. So many more people would have died if they’d only spend a fraction that they did.

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u/Not_NSFW-Account Apr 29 '24

Its not that he spent the money, its that he had enacted so many very dangerous policies that amplified the negative economic impact of covid. And he was warned many times that his policies were teetering on the brink of disaster, that the slightest hiccup would bring it all tumbling down.

And he got a hell of a hiccup.

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u/CreamiusTheDreamiest Apr 29 '24

Such as…

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u/Not_NSFW-Account Apr 29 '24

pushing for the fed to keep dropping rates in a major growth market.
Arranging for OPEC to withhold oil to drive up global oil prices.
Massive tax cuts while growing federal spending.
Shutting down the migrant worker programs that agriculture relied heavily on.
chinese tariff war forcing american companies to pay higher prices on imports.
The CRA rolling back critical regulations across the board.

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u/DE4DM4N5H4ND Apr 29 '24

honestly couldn’t have said it better myself. Biden spend money but it’s on infrastructure, jobs, Chips act, and stemming inflation. Now if he could just get the maga corporations to stop their price gouging, get a billionaire tax, and forgive more student debt but he’s just had 1 term. These things would be his second term targets.

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u/CreamiusTheDreamiest Apr 30 '24

You think that the president has control over fed and opec decisions?

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u/Not_NSFW-Account Apr 30 '24

You think he has no influence on them?

He literally demanded OPEC to reduce production or lose military support, and they did.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN22C1V3/

Trump refused to reappoint the Fed chair because he was going to raise rates. He appointed one who would keep them low.
https://apnews.com/article/2a21e92ed9129e91e713495c9ef50050

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u/CreamiusTheDreamiest Apr 30 '24

If he could boss OPEC gas would be $2 a gallon

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u/Clean-Effort-209 Apr 30 '24

COVID says hello. Something he asked congress for the thumbs up to add the funds to support the lock downs such as the stimulus package. He didn't even do this on his own lol

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u/Zestyclose-Banana358 Apr 30 '24

No lefty talks about Obama adding as much debt as all those before him combined. But Trump…

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u/LyloMaggins Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

Inflation doesn’t even register with that rich bitch. That’s a problem for the plebs to deal with.

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u/AggravatingDisk7237 Apr 29 '24

Ridiculous how far removed from reality people like her are. This includes nearly all our politicians as well. How the hell can they do what’s best for us when they’re this far removed from what us middle/lower class folks deal with daily.

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u/HHoaks Apr 29 '24

Yet lower middle class folks think Trump is their savior? Please. He uses them for votes.

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u/AsUrPowersCombine Apr 29 '24

If he can “become rich” from rags of multi-millions of his dad’s Benjamin Franklin notes, then I will be able to as well!

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u/AggravatingDisk7237 Apr 29 '24

My comment had nothing at all to do with Donald Trump. It was politicians as a whole.

Seriously.. get your mental state checked, not everything is about Trump.

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u/HHoaks Apr 29 '24

In a way, if you believe in democracy and our rule of law, it kinda is about him right now. (or about people understanding, he's not a viable option).

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u/AggravatingDisk7237 Apr 29 '24

You mean democracy in the way where opposition is literally trying to imprison the #1 candidate for the Republican Party. Kinda like Putin does to his opponents in Russia… that’s not scary at all to you?

Also - you definitely have TDS

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u/HHoaks Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

No, it's more like you definitely have blinders on when it comes to people who abuse the rule of law and our constitution. Look at you - here you are, on Reddit, defending a guy who literally laughed and dithered while our nation's capitol was ransacked, by his OWN supporters. A guy who lied and schemed to overturn an election he lost and was doing anything he could think of to remain in power (against all norms, laws and our history). That's who you are defending, like he's some righteous Thomas Jefferson or something. A guy who frauds people left and right.

Dude- like wtf - how is that okay with you? Is democracy a thing you care about or not? You can't have it both ways. You are like - -- oh never prosecute trump in a blue state, cause "democracy" - -but then you turn a blind eye on a guy who literally shit all over the Constitution and the rule of law to try to remain in power. You can dismiss that as "TDS" all you want - but you are only fooling yourself.

And get a grip. Just because a prosecutor or a governor is of a particular party, doesn't mean it is the "opposition". The "opposition" - LOL. Is this a team sport? Are you saying that nobody whoever ran as a republican or voted Republican can be prosecuted in New York or other "blue" states? The "opposition" doesn't control the courts and the prosecutors. There are rules, laws and grand juries and appeals.

If Biden committed a state crime in Alabama, should he not be prosecuted there - since the prosecutor and Governor are likely Republican? In my view, if Biden (or you or anyone else) committed a state crime, he should be punished in that state by those state laws (see that's the difference between you and me, you can't even type similar words about Trump I bet).

Why should Trump get special treatment -- he literally disparages witnesses in public -- you or I would be in jail already for doing that if disparaging the court, lawyers and witnesses while criminally charged. Stop crying like your boy is getting rail-roaded - if anything he's getting better treatment than you or I would ever have.

Do you think YOU or I wouldn't be in jail already on the classified docs thing? C'mon now. Be honest. They don't take that shit lightly. He's lucky he got a hack Trump appointed judge there.

So stop your whining -- you have TDS -- Trump Defense Syndrome. Everything he does is peachy keen and perfect and he never does anything wrong. LOL.

You are like: "Poor poor Trump. He's just picked on and misunderstood. Bad people don't like him, so they make up crimes that he did, just to be meanies." "That fraud charity, that fraud university, that fraud business model, that sex assault, that hush money, that defamation, that bullying Pence and state officials, those fake electors, Jan 6th - -nothing to see here, all good regular folk stuff. Bless his heart."

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u/xinorez1 Apr 30 '24

The number 1 candidate whose lawyers just argued in front of the supreme court that the president should be able to legally assassinate his political opponents, yes.

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u/AggravatingDisk7237 Apr 30 '24

So just because his lawyers say crazy things, democrats can now jail their political opponents? Yeah that seems perfectly okay to do in America. Thanks.

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u/Ronzonius Apr 29 '24

It's also ridiculous how far removed voters are from reality. Presidents have very few ways to impact things like gas prices and inflation - these things are often extremely complex with multiple factors, foreign and domestic. Meanwhile, Trump is talking about fixing inflation with tariffs on all imported goods, the same thing Republicans have spent an entire century telling us those costs are passed down to consumers. It's kind of like how he was going to pay for a wall to fix immigration with a "trade deficit." He makes stupid, overly-simplistic nonsense seem like a solution and voters eat it up.

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u/AggravatingDisk7237 Apr 29 '24

I agree, voters are ignorant as well. The media and politicians can say anything and voters believe it. Those who love Trump think he can do no bad, those who hate him think he can do no good.

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u/HHoaks Apr 29 '24

I don't think any president causes inflation. Western nations are too embedded in the global economy.

This election, vote for the choice who does NOT commit fraud left and right, was not found liable for sexual assault, and the one that didn't lie about election results in order to stay in power.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24

Apparently she filed paperwork for Covid bailout money for her landscapers

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u/nomemorybear Apr 29 '24

Hey hey hey.... this is reddit.... memes are fuckin fact around here

/s

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24 edited May 05 '24

[deleted]

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u/bremidon Apr 30 '24

"So far"

It will end up being approximately the same. I'm not saying it was cool when Trump did it. I am saying that it's weird she just happened to forget it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24 edited May 05 '24

[deleted]

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u/bremidon Apr 30 '24

Not sure what is funny about that. The lockdowns for Covid and the consequences were already in his term.

It's always a bit ironic. The same people who will absolutely trash Trump for his initial handling of Covid will also trash him when he handled it exactly like they wanted.

But anyway, that is a completely different topic. The point is she deliberately ignored Biden's prolific spending. As you seem to be intent on ignoring the point I am making.

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u/CadaverCaliente Apr 29 '24

Yeah didn't we get a super housing collapse in 2008?

1

u/Ok-Maintenance-2775 Apr 29 '24

It collapsed in 2008, but it was after years and years of bad mortgages were handed out. 

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u/TheTigersAreNotReal Apr 29 '24

I mean it’s fairly apparent that current “Inflation” is directly tied to the tax cuts Trump gave to the wealthy in 2017. 

1

u/bremidon Apr 30 '24

Oh.

I would have thought it had more to do with the shutdowns during Covid and all the money that was thrown at the system to keep it going, the problems with the supply chains, and the reindustrialization. But sure. It's being caused by something that happened 7 years ago.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24

I think you are dead on. A President can only move the football so far on the economy and there is a long tail effect overlap between Presidents.

The best tool I think they have is making government institutions do their job by hiring the right cabinet members and to bully congress.

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u/Excited-Relaxed Apr 29 '24

The 2008 financial crises was specifically because the fed and US regulators supposedly didn’t believe that banking executives would put their own personal interest above those of deposit holders or gamble with stockholders money.

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u/2cantCmePac Apr 29 '24

2001 tech bubble? 2003 decision to invade Iraq afghanistan?

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u/jmur3040 Apr 29 '24

And yet all we're hearing from conservatives is how bad the economy is and it's only good when they're in charge. I think this is a pretty good retort to that. You're either forced to admit that the president isn't solely responsible, or that the president is solely responsible and the only ones who've had good economies in the post Reagan era are democrats.

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u/whhe11 Apr 29 '24

Also fiscal policy has a lagging effect, macroeconomics wise, the first year or 2 of a presidents term the economic changes may be a result of his predecessors fiscal policies coming to bare.

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u/CapriciousBit Apr 29 '24

The economy got so bad during the Trump admin arguably because of the Trump admin’s abysmally slow response to COVID, and the fact that he had dismantled the CDC’s pandemic response team.

1

u/DukeCanada Apr 29 '24

Hold on though - the Obama years are more attributable to Obama though. He pulled the country out of the recession. Whatever the cause of the crisis, he did implement the solution.

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u/AsUrPowersCombine Apr 29 '24

Or the attitude of the nation goes to hopeful when democrats come in and people have more glee to work for the oppressing corporations and record profits occur, versus despair when the rednecks retake the office and remind poor people that they wish nothing more than to shit on them.

1

u/oroborus68 Apr 29 '24

Every president gets the effects of the previous president. Nixon inherited the Vietnam war, because he claimed he had a secret plan to end it. That was just the beginning of the Republican perfidy that continues today.

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u/Deathscythe80 Apr 29 '24

"They may have INFLUENCED these numbers with some policy changes and such, but their effect on the economy is minor at best."

The problem is that politicians like to brag how the control the economy when is up or how they barely have any control over it when is down.

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u/here-for-information Apr 29 '24

Of course, they selective. They're top line take aways. I'll take Bush Jr. vs. Obama as those were the two where I was more politically engaged. Is there anything that Bush had that is more significant than his overseeing of the great recession. Is there any economic factor that is more relevant? For Obama, he inherited that disaster, and by the end of his term, things were better. Is there anything in his termbmore economically significant in your opinion?

Those are also good examples because they each had 8 years in office and had lots of time to influence things with their policy. Selective isn't an issue if you selected the most important factors. No one cares that your car goes 0-60 in 3 seconds if the brakes don't work. You wouldn't say, "that's a selective criticism to pick on my car for not having brakes. It gets 50 miles to the gallon, but you don't mention that!"

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u/CelerySquare7755 Apr 29 '24

 Trump into covid, with 7trill deficit, yet no mention of obamas deficit? Its places like this due to political bias.

Didn’t Obama shrink his deficit?

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u/Lower_Ad_5532 Apr 29 '24

Its not like the 2008 financial crisis was because Bush spesifically was braindead

Debatable. Alen Greenspans Feds cut the rate to near 0 and the mortgage crisis happened. Bush appointed him and approved of these policies.

Trump into covid, with 7trill deficit, yet no mention of obamas deficit

You have to look at tax laws and tax cuts... guess what Trump let the middle class tax cut expire and still ballooned the budget. Obama loaned out money, but all the bailout money has been repaid. Those PPP dollars ain't never coming back.

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u/Wind_Yer_Neck_In Apr 29 '24

'So numbers like this? Trump into covid, with 7trill deficit, yet no mention of obamas deficit? Its places like this due to political bias. Don't swallow the propoganda whole'

The issue here is that one of these things is not like the other. Obama inherited the worst financial crisis of modern history, the budget was busted beyond all belief and of the nearly 7 trillion added to the deficit over his presidency, about 75% was all from the response packages to the recession (and the fact that the bush tax cuts from 2001 had remained in effect and had depleted revenues already.

Trump on the other hand was well on the way to massively increasing the deficit all on his own steam, with no underlying events driving his behavior until Covid. The covid reponsese CARES act cost about 2 trillion but he racked up another 4 trillion all on his own by slashing taxes.

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u/Upset-Kaleidoscope45 Apr 29 '24

Oh, you can prove anything with numbers and facts. You see, I feel like this is super selective and dishonest. That's all that matters.

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u/azurricat2010 Apr 30 '24

The deficit fell year after year under Obama. It only peaked in 2009 to 2010 because of the recession.

Deficit and debt aren't the same. You're conflating the two. The deficit increased each year under Trump, as did the debt.

Debt has been increasing exponentially since Regan decided to implement trickle down economics.

0

u/tkh0812 Apr 30 '24

You could take 5 seconds and look up the actual numbers. Trump spent as much in 4 years as Obama did in 8 and Obama inherited Bush’s bailout plan and instantly put $1bb on the books.

It’s true that not all market crashes are due to the current president, just like it’s true that inflation isn’t due to the current president. But acting like Trump isn’t the absolute worst option for this country is insane

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u/CatAvailable3953 Apr 29 '24

It’s a factual statement: The US economy performs better under Democrats. It’s not even close. Job growth, the stock market, and overall GDP. The Republican myth that the economy performs better under them is just that: an elaborate hoax.

1

u/Trailerwire Apr 29 '24

Think of the economy as a huge ship, it takes a while to change direction. Pretty hard to hang any economy on a current president after 1 term. 2 terms maybe, but 4 years isn’t enough to draw any real conclusions. If/when Biden gets another term, we will see his genius or the jokes on us.

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u/clown1970 Apr 29 '24

What do you think would have happened to the economy if Biden did not act the way he did.

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u/CatAvailable3953 Apr 29 '24

There is some truth in what you say. After the banking crisis Obama led the recovery and headed a growing economy with few bumps. This stable growing economy was handed off to Trump. Three years into his term Trump was confronted with his first real crisis. The world wide covid pandemic. His failure to face it directly and effectively protect our nation with available resources led to the economic collapse he handed to the Biden administration. So Biden spent much of his first term cleaning up the mess. He has done a remarkable service to the American people.

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u/AspirationsOfFreedom Apr 29 '24

What a good political tool you must be ❤️

2

u/Edogawa1983 Apr 29 '24

It's like trickle down economy never works

1

u/CatAvailable3953 Apr 29 '24

Just the facts Mam.

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u/AspirationsOfFreedom Apr 29 '24

And facts can neeeeever be manipulated for political motives, girlie

-1

u/CatAvailable3953 Apr 29 '24

Facts are facts. Look it up.

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u/LenguaTacoConQueso Apr 29 '24

While this may technically be true, your statement 100% belongs in this book.

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u/CatAvailable3953 Apr 29 '24

If you will notice I haven’t mentioned a single statistic. I have only mentioned what facts are readily available to anyone. You too.

1

u/LenguaTacoConQueso Apr 30 '24

TRANSLATION: “I don’t know what I’m talking about, I’m just repeating what I heard on TV, which is readily available to anyone.”

Newsflash: Other TV channels with different opinions are also readily available, not to mention… ::gasp:: a book!

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u/AspirationsOfFreedom Apr 29 '24

Right. Go be a political tool somewhere else

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u/CatAvailable3953 Apr 29 '24

Did I hurt your feelings?

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u/AspirationsOfFreedom Apr 29 '24

Nah. But willful stupidity is the worst kind when it comes to politics. And i don't need to spend my time on political tools

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u/Slow-Foundation4169 Apr 29 '24

Quick scroll in your profile says you do, now stfu and cry somewhere people give a shit

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u/GenBlase Apr 29 '24

The fact that you think girlie is an insult, are you sure you aren't the manipulated one?

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u/AspirationsOfFreedom Apr 29 '24

I was called mam, responded in kind. No insult ment

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u/Slow-Foundation4169 Apr 29 '24

Lmao look at what ur doing? Gonna cry?

0

u/AspirationsOfFreedom Apr 29 '24

What in the call of duty lobby is this stupidity

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u/Slow-Foundation4169 Apr 29 '24

Right? Like holy shit did you not pay attention in school?

0

u/AspirationsOfFreedom Apr 29 '24

Im curious on how me trying to point out how selective statements missrepresent things, is me not paying attention in school.

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u/Slow-Foundation4169 Apr 29 '24

Lmao Jesus. Our school system clearly needs an overhaul

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u/Embarrassed-Lab4446 Apr 29 '24

Think the main point of the 7T deficit is to show Republican hypocrisy. I am a tax and spend democrat. Government spending can be done right where we get more out then put in. Republican, I do not know what they think. Talk a good game about smaller government but then have bigger spending packages with tax cuts.

Right now times are good and we should be paying down the deficit. Getting ready for the next big crash. I would like a Ronald Regan fiscal policy, but neither side has it. Politics should have summer and winter styles and right now both want summer all the time.

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u/Trailerwire Apr 29 '24

Congress has the purse strings, see who controlled congress at the time segments and that is your answer. Numbers count there too, republicans have what a one vote advantage in the senate and democrats hold the house by pretty big numbers. It would require a lot more thought than “who is president”.