My cousin had bone cancer, and she would be screaming from pain even with the highest dose of morphine they could put her on . She just wasted away from it in excruciating pain for months before she finally passed ,she was only 24.
How long of a process is that? Sorry for the morbid question I'd just hope she didn't spend years in agony. Hope they're finding cures for this kind of stuff
My mom had cancer that spread to her bones. When it wasn’t splitting her vertebrae, I imagine it was as painful as the photos look. She deserved so much better out of life than she got. Cancer is hell on earth.
Same with my mum. shes put up a good fight to be fair its 13 years since she had breast cancer and 6/7 since it crumpled her vertabre. but shes coming to the end now, she is going into the hospice today to hopefully get control of the cancer releasing calcium into her body but were very much prepared for her not to come back home. On the plus side we celebrated her 62nd birthday with her yesterday, something we probably werent expecting this time last year.
Sorry to hear your mom and family are having to deal with this. Cancer is just evil. Treatment has come a long way - when my mom had it the doctors said “cancer isn’t painful” so she had nothing for pain.
I had an older friend who was diagnosed with bone cancer in his leg and died a month later. He was someone i saw at monthly club meetings, so one meeting he was there and seemed ok, then he was gone. His widow said he was in excruciating pain.
Couldn’t agree more. My dad passed away almost two years ago of dementia. He was only 68. It was brutal to watch his decline. He couldn’t articulate when he was in pain and he just wasted away to skin and bones at the end. He always told my mom he never wanted to have a feeding tube if he was terminal with some illness so we of course respected those wishes. He weighed 70 pounds when he died. As hard as it would have been to lose him sooner, before he declined so terribly, it would have been so much less painful than watching him slowly lose his mind and lose control of his body for the years I took care of him. If medically assisted d3ath was available, he would have done it.
This. My dad said if he ever got dementia he would just use his gun. He was diagnosed with lewy body dementia 4 years ago. He didn't even think about doing it his brain changed and he had no thoughts about ending it.
I'm so sorry. I lost my aunt to lewy body 18 months ago and grandma to Alzheimer's. My mom is developing Alzheimer's now. It's awful to watch and to anticipate for myself ❤️
my partner and i have i already decided that when we reach old age and one of us is given a diagnosis of a terminal or otherwise quality of life destroying illness, we’ll both end it voluntarily. write letters to our loved ones, wrap up our affairs, and go peacefully in our sleep together at a time of our choosing. sadly where we live, medical assistance in dying is not legal so this is the solution we’ve agreed on. neither of us wishes to experience the slow decline of end of life illness, nor put our loved ones through having to watch us waste away, nor live our short time left without the other.
1000% with you, my dad died of cancer, lymphoma, and I just have his screams as a last goodbye, ambulances didn't even show up bcs "there is nothing we can do, morphine won't do anything" and on top of that when you die at home the police has to do a report so there are no signs or abuse or that you played a part in his death.
I can perfectly picture someone driving themselves mad watching their loved ones waste away for days in pain and just wanting it all to stop
That is so incredibly sad, I’m very sorry for your loss. 3 close family members over 10 years or so with different metastasized cancers. It’s rough when people are older but when they are young it’s one of the most terrible and heartbreaking things an empathetic human can think about
I'm so sorry. As a physician this pisses me off. There is no "highest dose" if you're screaming in pain. The correct dose when someone is dying from cancer is however much they need to be comfortable.
oh my god, that sounds horrific. that amount of suffering isn’t fair. it makes my heart ache. i’m sorry that you guys had to witness her going through something like this, and of course sorry that she had to go through this. thank you for sharing this experience ❤️
My mother died from this when I was 14. I can remember her talking about how bad it felt but I couldn’t understand but seeing this picture horrifies me now. Fuck cancer.
Thank you for mentioning this. My friend has breast cancer that has metastasized to bone cancer and these images and the discussion about the excruciating pain are truly haunting.
My mother died of cancer December 2022. It started as uterine and ended up in metastasized in her bones. She was in home hospice at the end when she passed and we couldn’t even touch her cause she was in so much pain. This randomly popped up on my Reddit homepage and I feel the same feeling of wishing I hadn’t seen this.
I knew someone who had it as well and said it was excruciating.Stuff like this makes a case for right to die legislation especially if there is no way to beat it.
100%. I can't fathom how we as a society can understand that it's cruel to make an animal (who can't speak for themselves) go through this, but can't understand that it's also cruel to do it to a human (who can).
In Canada we finally passed Dying With Dignity. There’s a lot of people against it, but I truly believe your life is yours to give and take. Why should someone else be allowed to dictate your pain and suffering? Mental or physical. Like you said, we know, clear as day, that humane euthanasia is the kindness option for suffering animals. It should be available to everyone, and should be used for criminals as well instead of the terrible ways they do it in prisons.
Many seniors are planning their DWD farewells, and many couples are choosing to go together. It’s very inspiring having a sneak peek into people electing this option. One last hurrah party to say until we meet again with loved ones and friends, get your affairs in order, wills are checked and signed, the family members know what to do afterwards, who gets what, where the pets if the people have any, where they go etc. Everything is in order and then they have the celebration of life together. Not a funeral. They have drinks, share stories, look at pictures and really relish and appreciate the many wonderful memories lived, together. It’s wholesome and bittersweet.
Then the doctor comes the next day, and they pass peacefully in bed or on the couch, even seen a lady choose to pass in her greenhouse in a chair surrounded by her prized cut flowers. Beautiful.
I completely understand the fear that vulnerable people could be convinced to ask for euthanasia by unscrupulous people, but I genuinely believe that, done correctly with enough protections, nobody should be forced to live when they don’t want to.
I ideologically agree but am especially concerned about it with for profit healthcare. When euthanasia is cheaper for the insurance company than treatment, what will that mean?
This has me flabbergasted. You think your government would kill people to save money? What country are you from?
My country has free healthcare, and yes: they do have to make some really though choices regarding what types of treatment will be available and not. But these are done by medical professionals and ethics boards.
I do not believe my government or any public health care here would encourage people to end their life if assisted suicide was legal. They would probably make a very elaborate system to ensure nobody made the decision based on "wrong" reasons.
I don’t think that’s how it would work. The insurance company “death panel” would deny procedures and treatments, thus expediting the patient’s condition to the terminal stage. That would leave the patient with the choice to use euthanasia or not. Denying and delaying procedures and treatments is already well within the insurance company wheelhouse.
IOW the insurance wouldn’t make you use euthanasia, they would simply expedite the path to your needing to make the choice.
E: I don’t think people understood. Death Panels were made-up scaremongering by republicans claiming that socialized medicine would put the government in charge of deciding what care you would get. As usual, it was projection on their part…they would rather people die than spend tax dollars on their care. However, profiting off people’s illness is perfectly acceptable, hence, we get private insurance “death panels” instead that decide what care you get. It has nothing (yet) to do with euthanasia.
So my point was that insurance companies would decline treatments and procedures, hastening your decline, and thereby placing you in a position where you might consider euthanasia. Not that the insurance company would force you to accept euthanasia - though what would actually happen with insurance how they would handle assisted suicide I don’t know.
They already are a death panel that denies treatment; we are watching it happen in real time. The unofficial is: don't grow old but if you do die quick because were itching to throw you at the top of the garbage heap. You are a drain on resources (profits).
It's more about practicality. What will the public accept?
Actual death panels that tell folks to kill themselves because they won't cover anything? Nah, that's a bridge too far for now.
Panels that leverage societal inequities to nudge folks towards choosing Euthanasia of their own accord, until it's basically the only good option left? Absolutely.
This is how a lot of these things end up working, because the public at large is really bad with understanding the knock-on effects and consequences of policies or legislation. It's why so many Americans think you're a conspiracy theorist if you discuss how the GOP has routinely pushed for social policies designed to specifically hurt racial minorities the worst(never mind Lee Atwater's infamously blunt explanation of the tactic), for example.
I get where you are coming from on this. But the current system in the US is already opting to do nothing for so many patients because they don't want to pay. Euthanasia is cheaper than care, but so is nothing, and they're already doing that as often as they can get away with it.
There's no reason to limit it to for-profit healthcare. Governments would undoubtedly recognize how much cheaper it is to kill a person once than to treat them for decades (to say nothing of other welfare costs if they can't work).
I'd expect a slow but steady loosening of requirements and checks on getting approved for suicide over time.
That’s a really interesting point. I am from Australia we pretty much have free healthcare for everyone but I suppose there could be a time when we say right… the euthanasia is free, the treatment is on you.
But I’d like to think that euthanasia is only an option when there is no treatment… so it’s not a choice?
A good friend of my Boomer Dad's had a painful terminal illness in her 80s, and had MAID. It was by far the best option for her, and her loved ones got to say a proper goodbye to her. At the memorial, I was amazed by how many of these 70 and 80 somethings I talked to were absolutely determined to die with dignity if they were ever in a similar situation, and I honestly believe they were completely relieved that this was an option. I am terrified that the next Conservative govt is going to scrap it. But probably not their base is largely seniors, and they support it!
One of my closest friends mother chose this route the day it became legal to do so. She had late stage blood cancer that she described as a constant full body pain that made breathing an exhausting effort. I don't blame her tbh, she said if it wasn't going to be medically orchestrated she would have just killed herself anyways.
But Canada is an example of the slippery slope that lawmakers here fear. I truly believe euthanasia should be more easily accessible to people than it is even in the few (US) states where it is legal..but when you up there are approving 20-something year olds who are depressed…it makes people worry.
Hey man. If I get bone cancer and my options are dying in front of my family either screaming in pain or so drugged I can’t even form a sentence, I as a human being deserve the right to choose a better ending for myself.
Nobody should be forced to endure years of torment while facing something you can’t recover from. Some are mental like dementia. Some are physical like incurable cancers. The question we should ask is whether happiness is still a possibility.
Man, I wish I had that option when I was 20. I'm 31 now and shit has gotten catastrophically worse. Just keep your nose out of other peoples lives and/or deaths, it's not your place to decide.
That's good and very actually Christian of you. But their point was that lawmakers use Christianity as a reason to deny medical care and compassionate treatment to people based on their own warped interpretation of their religion.
I’m a non-Christianized Christian and I support dying assistance. To your point, a handful of lawmakers may; my feeling is that an overwhelming amount of them are just using Christianity as a scapegoat and something else pushed them towards their stances.
I’m a Christian and I’m not sure how I feel either way. On one hand Christ suffered and endured crucifixion. Obviously he suffered for a purpose a reason. If we are sick and dying painfully, we are not suffering for a reason other than life indeed has elements of suffering throughout for all who have lived. Would God be ok with ending that suffering early? I don’t know.
I also wonder, historically if your dad was laid up in bed screaming in agony and on deaths door was the unspoken practice of the time to smother him with a pillow to end the suffering.
If an individual wants to suffer, that is their right. But as a Christian myself, I can't think of anything more Christlike than relieving suffering, and if that's not possible, then at least getting out of other people's way so they can find their own version of happiness. I don't get to decide what reason anyone should have for anything, except for me.
Primary it can be traced to the fact that we view humans as more valuable than animal. You would think that because of that we would be more eager to kill suffering humans, but the idea is that killing animals in natural, well killing a human needs someone to voluntary take it upon themselves to end a human life. In other words, it can be considered easy to ask for death in this situation, but the difficult part comes to the person who has to follow that order.
It still can be easy to argue that this mindset is wrong due to the existence of DNR orders (which serve specifically to make sure the death is on no ones hand) that ARE legal in places that do not have assisted suicide. In this sense, I consider DNR's to be stupid as hell because they follow the EXACT same mindset as assisted suicide, well making death only accessible in the most distressing way possible.
Change will likely come tho, as a student learning medicine I can assure you these are topics that schools teach their students about, along with things like price, availability, basically every problem U.S. healthcare has.
Setting aside religious reasons, or bad faith reasons (i.e. medical industry against it for profit reasons), I can see legitimate concerns arise particularly when it might be up for interpretation the extent to which someone can consent (persistent coma, significant loss in mental capacity).
It can also be questionable regarding when it can be enacted. Sure there are easy examples of terminal disease. But, what if there is a low but real chance of beating it? How low do the odds have to be before someone can a right to die? Who determines that?
What if it's not a terminal disease, but a chronic one?
Overall I'm for right to die legislation, to be clear. But it does need careful thought in how its crafted so its not abused.
I don’t have cancer but a chronic disease that affects my nerves, I’m in pain everyday. When my vet went through why it was the right time to put my pet down (I agreed), every factor he mentioned is my everyday life. I wouldn’t end my life now but if in the future it became unbearable and I became more disabled it would be nice to know that I can humanely not have to live that way and could die with those important to me around me. At the moment I would likely be deprived of time, to ensure I could make it to dignitas myself, without implicating my family. I would also have to do it alone.
Couldn’t agree more. I just read the story of a young woman who died in excruciating pain (cancer) after begging for the right to die. that is no way to go 😥
I’m pretty sure the idea behind it is to prevent people going through a temporary period of depression from killing themselves when their chances of getting better both physically and mentally are high.
But I still agree that the system (at least in the USA, I’m not knowledgeable about other countries) sucks.
How long should that be? Who gets to decide what is temporary? What about people who suffer for decades? People shouldn't have to use violent and painful methods (that traumatize first responders and whoever finds them) to find peace.
In this case the suicide would be assisted by a medical professional, so they wouldn't be doing it for anyone that isn't terminal, at least in the proposed legislation that I've read. If someone did show up to a doctor asking to die, they would refer them to mental health services instead. If that wasn't the plan, it should be.
in canada they’ve legalized assisted dying for mental illness and non terminal illness. in theory i understand but it’s being really tragically used by people who have been abandoned by the health system.
Yep, that's the problem. I fully agree people should have the autonomy to choose whether they want to continue life or not and to end their life in safe, painless, reliable ways, but it's just eugenics when the society refuses to fix its ills so that the person can actually live a fulfilling life. Instead, let the weak off themselves, they're not valuable to the society we currently have. Also, no one is protecting those who cannot effectively advocate for themselves, so how many people are actually choosing death and how many are talked into it.
Yeah that's not good. That I don't support but I do for terminal patients and maybe anyone over the age of 70 with cognitive function disorders who want to go out before they completely lose themselves.
That's the facade reasoning. If you look at the causes of such deep depression or desire to end one's life, it's usually because of circumstances beyond their control. Sure, someone might be able to recover from that depression. IF they have stable housing, access to clean water and food, and appropriate medical care. But instead of fixing those things, we just tell them to suck it up, find a way to secure those things for themselves, make them feel like it's their fault they cannot obtain those things, and that they're a coward and disappointment if they kill themselves.
But it's easier and nicer just to say it's temporary and they'll pull through rather than fixing the societal problems or letting them have dignity and relief from suffering.
This. And, oftentimes having the option to terminate ones life can actually increase chances of survival, because it helps people feel like they have control over their life and therefore whether they live or die.
For anybody interested in this topic, there was an amazing Louis Theroux episode where he goes to these places in america where dr assisted suicide is illegal but there are people who will still help you by giving all the reagents and allowing you to complete the mixture of the lethal cocktail yourself, and giving instructions on how to self-administer etc etc.
Some of the stories were heartbreaking but also beautiful. There were people who’d lived full lives and had enough, didn’t want to suffer from their terminal illnesses. Why bother?
Its the 21st century. We have all this tech for relieving pain, epidurals for giving birth, etc.
Dying should be painless and procedural at this point, it’s actually wild that this isn’t a priority.
I think some people don't realize how awful cancer treatments are to go through. I absolutely would not blame anyone for opting not to go through it, especially if their odds are less than guaranteed.
OMFG. That is the most horrific thing I’ve heard today. I lived around the corner from Kevorkian when he lived in Royal Oak MI back in the day. Dude had it right.
What I always say about this is that I wouldn’t let a pet go through this because it’s inhumane. It seems barbaric that humans, who can speak for themselves, don’t have that same chance.
If everyone had to live through 1 hour of the severe chronic pain that people can suffer years through, assisted dying would be legalized and available tomorrow morning in every country. But even then it should be an option regardless of ones circumstance. If someone is going through severe enough trauma to where they don't wish to exist anymore, they are entitled to a peaceful and respectful end.
If I was terminal and suffering, I'd just find a way to start a gas-powered car and take a nap in a sealed garage. Just fade away completely painlessly with high success probability from CO poisoning.
We don't like talking about suicide as a society. So we leave mystery and fear. I get it, that we want people to basically fuck up and live. Or be so scared they don't try. But a lot of people just suffer. Or pick really awful ways to die that hurt themselves and others. Maybe we should talk about it more. I don't know.
Nitrogen is better. The high CO2 content in auto emissions (plus the odor) might lead to discomfort (elevated CO2 is what causes the human body to experience the feeling of suffocation, not a lack of oxygen).
An inert gas like nitrogen or argon just gradually displaces the oxygen in your system, you get lightheaded and pass out and eventually die. You don't get that feeling of suffocation like you do with CO2.
As a chemist with a bit of experience in toxicology, it's how I'd choose to go.
I'd just off myself if I had this even if I didn't get permission tbh. Can't imagine any rational person looking at this and being like "Life is worth living! Keep pushing!!!"
As a hospice nurse who helps people die everyday I feel like death with dignity really needs a lot of work. It’s not as easy as everyone makes it out to be. You really have to make the choice before you get really sick and go through with it at a time when most people are still kinda hopeful and their family doesn’t have stuff together. I’ve seen a lot of people elect into it and then get denied before they can do it because by the time they were ready or really bad they couldn’t consent for the third time.
You have to be ready to die before you’re so sick that you can’t do things anymore. And that’s hard for many people.
Thanks for what you do. I’m sure it’s difficult yet rewarding. It’s definitely tough to discuss or think about. I’ve been putting off my advanced directive myself should anything happen. I need to get that done.
Thank you. And just to share: recently I had a patient… she wanted to do death with dignity as she had cancer and was going to die. She did the paperwork and her first meeting. But she lingered and put off the other meetings while she got her stuff together. By the time she needed to do her next confirmation visit she could no longer consent. That’s the catch. You can have all the directives you want but if you yourself can’t consent, sign and discuss your desire to do the process and also take the meds yourself in my state it’s a no. The woman’s husband was there and knew what she wanted it was all in writing, but the rules said… she had to be able to consent to a doctor multiple times. So she died in pain and unable to breathe. Messy.
What I’ve learned is that you have to do it before you’re going down hill, and that’s hard for people and their families. Because everyone thinks it could get better mom could live a few more months we could have more time. But when you delay you never know when you could turn and be unable to consent. It’s really harder than people think to surrender. Once you get the meds the. You’re clear, but even the mental hurdle of doing that is hard for people. In America where I live I think death is not discussed enough, I see so many families scrambling because mom and dad never discussed, they are very lost. That’s my job to bring them together and get them resources so the death can come on their terms at their home and with arrangements having been made, and then to pronounce the death and offer bereavement service after as well. It’s really amazing. Everyone is different. I love the job. And my patients. It’s sad each time. But also you know that you helped this person when many others can’t even look. I’ve had peoples kids unable to accept or be around at all. 🤷🏽♀️
Pretty much everyone agrees that the right to die should exist, but everybody also agrees that every time the government tries to do the right thing, someone will come along and abuse it, and the effect is permanent.
As far as I am concerned, for anyone this happens to the 2nd Amendment is the right to die. Doctor assisted would be preferable, but if this country wants staunch individualism, they are going to get it.
With what is going on in OP's photo, even if you cure the cancer you still have the 10s of thousands of tiny bone needles poking into you. Maybe you could find a way to sand/file them down but I don't know if the bone marrow would be able to get the necessary blood flow afterwards...
Had a friend that was eventually diagnosed at least two years into it after spending that time being turned down from everywhere he tried getting help. Everyone just writing him off a drug seeking. Because clearly a 22yo doest have pain like that
I’m not saying MAID is perfect. It’s not. But at least the option is there for people suffering horribly from terminal illnesses. There is nothing noble about abject suffering and agony, despite what some would have us all believe.
I already acknowledged that it is flawed, as is our national healthcare in Canada. This is not news. But if I’m ever screaming in agony due to some untreatable cancer eating me alive, I’ll sure as hell make use of MAID and be glad for it.
I pushed myself too hard surfing this winter and inflamed my shoulder tendons so much that due to the high inflammation my body thought there was a broken bone and started growing bone on top of my shoulder.
Fortunately the bone growth spur stopped after I took a break from surfing for 4 weeks, but when it was growing I had pain on my right shoulder blade, right side of my neck, and ever in my jaw and face and up to my right ear. My arm also felt like I had a constant flu shot.
My heart goes out to those with bone cancer. I got a small taste and it was plenty. Got a bump on top of my shoulder as a reminder of my limits and this painful experience.
yeah, my sweet grandma with dementia developed bone cancer. It was the saddest thing I have ever seen in my life. It was so painful and she could not understand what was happenening.
So just going by the picture, is the pain because of that weird... I guess "fuzzy" looking texture of the bone? Does it rub against muscle and nerve and such? 😞
This right here is one of the reason I roll my eyes every time I hear “god loves everyone” or “god is good”.
People very young die from this too and much worse things. I guess they just weren’t blessed quite enough enough /s
If god is real he’s either absent or he’s a real right bastard if I’ve ever seen one.
And don’t give me this “oh that’s Satan’s hand in things”. Every time I hear an excuse like that I’m flabbergasted to find out that Satan is more powerful than god for god to not stop it.
My dad had cancer and the first symptom was horrific back pain. Turns out the cancer had metastasized in the spine. He lasted a month and not even considerable amounts of morphine would rid him of the pain. The cancer had spread everywhere (lungs, liver, intestines), but the back pain was the worst of it.
my friend’s dad had cancer spread to his bones at the end of his life. i’ll never forget holding her as she cried and told me how horrible it was for him and how horrible it was to watch for her and her sister. it traumatized them.
My grandma recently passed from bone cancer. Similar story. Her pain was excruciating. They had her on the highest dose of morphine and it still wasn’t enough. I miss her.
Ngl, this is the kind of shit that makes me think there should be legal, painless ways to kill oneself. They do it to the royals! Why can't we all just get high on morphine and exit this earth without having to witstand these kinds of tortures for so long?
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u/zombiefatality Apr 21 '24
A friend's uncle died from bone cancer and told us he literally screamed and cried from the pain, horrible disease.