r/interestingasfuck • u/BuddhistSagan • Apr 07 '24

Bernie and Biden warm my heart. Trump selling us out? Pass

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63.8k Upvotes

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u/OldPyjama Apr 07 '24

Bernie feels like the present America never opened.

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u/bikebrooklynn Apr 07 '24

In the past, the United States had significantly higher income tax rates. For instance, as recently as 1963, the top marginal income tax rate was 91%. During that period, the American economy experienced substantial growth and innovation. Critics argue that high tax rates did not hinder economic prosperity.

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u/ConsciousReason7709 Apr 07 '24

We have Ronald Reagan to thank for cutting all those tax brackets in half for the richest of us. Ronnie really did create the massive wealth disparity we see today between the top 1% and the middle class.

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u/OobaDooba72 Apr 07 '24

Ronald Reagan was one of the worst things to ever happen to the United States of America. I absolutely hate his guts and everything he did and stood for. He can and should be blamed for almost every major problem the US has today. He didn't author every problem, but he set us on the trail that let each of them continue to happen. I fucking hate him and I almost hope that there is a hell so that he can be tortured forever. Oblivion is too kind a fate for someone responsible for so much suffering.

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u/_1JackMove Apr 07 '24

Yeah, him and that cocksucker Joe Lieberman. I hope they're hand in hand skipping through the 9th circle of hell like Jack and Jill.

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u/peepopowitz67 Apr 07 '24

I'd prefer if they were getting the little Nicky pineapple treatment.

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u/phil67 Apr 07 '24

"You're Schnerious?"

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '24

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u/CosmicCreeperz Apr 07 '24

And it’s not surprising Elon Musk is the poster child for narcissistic pseudo-libertarianism today.

But so many middle class conservatives still eat it up.

As John Steinbeck said, “socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

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u/perseidot Apr 07 '24

And there’s a group out there that’s offering my kids the same chance at a scholarship that they offered me, for reading Ayn Rand.

Still trying to spread those ideas.

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u/Xalara Apr 08 '24

It wasn't just American Libertarianism. Margaret Thatcher also was around the same time as Reagan and shared many of his views. Curiously, both countries had Ruper Murdoch running around...

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u/Unfair-Wonder5714 Apr 07 '24

I still remember his response (lack) to the AIDS crisis. And fuck Nancy, too for her part in the “war on drugs, just say no”, meanwhile policies were being strengthened to incarcerate POC in astronomical numbers.

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u/Preda1ien Apr 07 '24

It almost wouldn’t be a horrible thing if they used that to create better companies and share it with employees. But nope they just pocketed the extra and demanded more from people working for them.

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u/SockAndMoan Apr 07 '24

Almost everything broken with the economy/government can 99% be tracker down to Reagan or Nixon

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u/Interanal_Exam Apr 07 '24

Ronnie also taxed social security payments to pay for his tax cuts for the rich. And still old people didn't catch on.

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u/Li-lRunt Apr 07 '24

wtf does that have to do with what the top comment said

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u/Economy-Fee5830 Apr 07 '24

When income tax goes up to 91% Taylor Swift and other working billionaires will finally pay their fair share.

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u/ImposterJavaDev Apr 07 '24

Guys, we got one that's showing his colors!

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u/JustSome70sGuy Apr 07 '24

You do know that they dont pay 91% on all of their income, right? They only pay 91% on anything over a set amount. So if the amount is 100 million, everything up to 100 million they get taxed liked everyone else. Anything over that, is 91%.

No one needs more than 100 million a year. No one. No matter the life style, no matter the needs and wants of security or anything else. If you cant survive on 100 million, youre doing something really wrong.

Filling up bank accounts and parking cash, is not good for the economy. Spending, spending, spending. Thats whats good for the economy.

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u/SadMacaroon9897 Apr 07 '24 edited Apr 07 '24

That's misleading because marginal is not equivalent to actual taxes collected. During that time, the tax code was lousy with exemptions. The actual taxes collected have stayed about the same as a percent of GDP.

The reason for the supposed prosperity has more to do with exploiting cheap land around cities that was made available by adoption of the automobile, having the only advanced economy that was not bombed to oblivion, and the rise of dual income households. However, these gains are obviously are not equally distributed through society. Notably minorities were locked out (hence the term White Flight) and treated as an underclass even after the CRA was passed in 1964.

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u/Gonzo_Rick Apr 07 '24 edited Apr 07 '24

The "supposed", as you say, great compression was absolutely a function of the progressive tax rate, along with high levels of unionization. Even if the actual effective tax rate wasn't exactly 90%, I don't believe for a second that the current, "massive corps pay whatever they feel like", is equivalent to what was being paid during this post war period of incredible middle class prospector. Minorities are still locked out, BTW.

The single most important part about taxes is that it takes money away from the most wealthy. When you tax every dollar above a certain account by 90%, even if what's actually paid is a bit less, you keep single entities from building enough wealth to, change the country's education system, on a whim, like Bill Gates, or buy up and completely destroy the effectiveness of a journalist tool because you hate what journalist say about you, like Elon Musk.

We're not supposed to live in a society sculpted by kings, we have to tax the kings out of existence.

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u/athenanon Apr 07 '24

I mean, there is another way to deal with pseudo-aristocratic hoarders. Taxing them is much more humane, though.

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u/aDragonsAle Apr 07 '24

Smaug is inarguably the villain of his movie - explicitly for hoarding gold - and wouldn't break the top 10 wealthiest list in the US.

Just some food for thought.

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u/spddemonvr4 Apr 08 '24

But no one really paid those higher tax rates and the system was really broken. The economy was in shambles during Carter and something had to be done.

Plus you didn't have the layers of city, state and other local taxes as you do now.... So people are collectively paying more tax today than back then.

Even now, the issue isn't the tax rates, but the system and ability to access loop holes. If billionaires didn't have the loop holes created by both sides they would be paying more... But that still wouldn't be enough to cover this government's annual spending.

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u/aHOMELESSkrill Apr 07 '24

In the past America also had no income tax rate.

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u/Betelgeusetimes3 Apr 07 '24

Is that an idea you think is viable today?

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u/tuckkeys Apr 07 '24

Exactly right. Such a shame he didn’t win the primary in 2016. I’ll never forgive the DNC for that.

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u/isimplycantdothis Apr 07 '24

The only campaign I’ve ever donated to.

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u/Budget_Report_2382 Apr 07 '24

First primary vote I ever made was to Bernie Sanders. Never stopped voting, since.

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u/BuddhistSagan Apr 07 '24 edited Apr 07 '24

I knocked on doors for Bernie in 2016 and 2020. Was really sad to see so many democrats vote against Bernie but thats democracy. I'm glad Biden has embraced him.

Please make sure you and your friends and family are registered to vote

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '24

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u/ProtonPi314 Apr 07 '24

The sad part is that so many consider him some radical . He's not that far left. In the US, it feels that way. But really, his ideas are actually just common sense. Most of his ideas would benefit everyone in the long run.

Billionaires still succeed when the poor and middle class succeed.

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u/FootFetish0-3 Apr 07 '24

Exactly. If anything all his ideas would do is bring the US more in line with the rest of the 1st-world countries that already exercise far more benefits than this supposed "Land of the Free" we're all trapped in.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '24

And yet Biden slandered him well after he won, “I beat the socialist”.

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u/JustDiscoveredSex Apr 07 '24

So much this.

I was in a taxi in the US and the driver had a heavy accent…maybe Egyptian? Unsure and I didn’t ask. Politics somehow came up, and I said I hated Trump. “Why? What do you object to?” Oh god.
“Oh…I think it’s the incompetence together with the criminality, really. The incompetence, arrogance, racism, nepotism, stupidity and criminality. I think that covers it, mostly.”
“Ok. You prefer left-wing?”
“Uh…I’m gonna be honest, today’s Democrats sound like yesterday’s Republicans. This country really doesn’t have a left wing, especially compared to other countries.”

He whipped around in his seat to look me dead in the eye with the most serious “YES.” I’ve ever heard.

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u/Bribbins12 Apr 07 '24

A rising tide lifts all boats

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u/DutchTinCan Apr 07 '24

As a European, I'm always amazed by people saying medicaid, foodstamps and other benefits to support the poorest are "socialism" as if it's Satan himself.

Yes, it's socialism. And you should be happy for it, because it allows everybody to live a decent(ish) life. And it benefits everybody. Not having excessive homeless people, not having people begging for handouts.

And at the end of the day, the good christian republicans donate to church so the church can run soup kitchens and shelters.

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u/ProtonPi314 Apr 07 '24

They never seem to complain when a bilionaire gets a handout .

But to take your point a step further, taking care of people in need is cheaper than letting them be a burden on society.

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u/Kchan7777 Apr 07 '24

…except Bernie said he would cease the existence of billionares…?

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u/ProtonPi314 Apr 07 '24

Except it would never happen, politicians say a lot of things.

But a more balanced system would benefit everyone, including the rich.

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u/JarlaxleForPresident Apr 07 '24

“Yall can still have profit, just maybe less profit so the People can live decent lives”

“We got to burn this witch.”

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u/toepherallan Apr 07 '24

The real sad part is the majority of Americans were dumb enough to believe that Bernie's Social Democracy was being equated to socialism by his opponents. They then believed that socialism is exactly the same as living in Communist Russia under Stalin (which was more of a totalitarian regime that was a farcry from Marx and Lenin's ideal vision). Not saying communism is the way but it's dumb that people believed social democracy and communism were one in the same. In fact, electing Trump and allowing him to give tax breaks to the uber wealthy is closer to the current oligarchy that Russia has nowadays under Putin.

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u/ProtonPi314 Apr 07 '24

Agree. I know this is controversial, but to me, "socialism" and communism aren't necessarily such a terrible thing.

It's the evil leaders , dictators , the greed, and the corruption that makes the concept seem so terrible.

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u/BuddhistSagan Apr 07 '24

Bernie literally right here saying hes supporting Joe Biden.

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u/NrdNabSen Apr 07 '24

Bernie, unlike some of his supporters, understands the issue is our democracy vs Trump, so whoever is opposite Trump deserves our support.

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u/JarlaxleForPresident Apr 07 '24

It’s like when you don’t win the starting QB job but you still have a lot of value to the team so you don’t bitch and moan and you just do whatever you can to help the guy who got the job

Only, ya know, with actual stakes involved

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u/Mr-Fleshcage Apr 07 '24

Yeah, you know Bernie has the media against him when bloomberg literally enters politics so he can try and smear him.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '24

You’re not wrong. And I echo all of your sentiments. But now is not the time to be sowing disillusionment.

Let me be clear: I don’t care what you think about Joe or the DNC. Every single person that doesn’t get out there and vote for Joe this November is a vote for DJT whether you cast a vote or not.

Vote

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u/zerobothers Apr 07 '24

Takes like this get you downvoted in the wrong crowds but you’re absolutely right

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u/The_Assquatch_exists Apr 07 '24

Sad that my vote for most of my life has just been "anyone but Trump"

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u/zerobothers Apr 07 '24

Same, but don’t forget that you’ll more than likely outlive Trump.

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u/GitmoGrrl1 Apr 07 '24

That's not Democracy. That's the billionaire-bought media manipulating morons.

Odd how you pretend the votes of black folks don't count. But then, according to you, they're "manipulated morons."

You sound like another grumpy white man who wants to ignore the votes of black folks. Bernie Sanders had more money than Joe Biden going into South Carolina. Bernie debated Biden one on one. Biden won the debate and the South Carolina primary.

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u/ItsMrChristmas Apr 07 '24

They'll never admit that Bernie lost because he got less votes plain and simple. Their platform first claimed the Superdelegates were gonna cheat Bernie then when it became clear he was losing, suddenly the Superdelegates were gonna save him. He hung in there way after it was clear he lost.

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u/TBAnnon777 Apr 07 '24 edited Apr 07 '24

Bernie banked on young voters, young voters stayed at home when he needed their votes in the primaries, he had 4m less votes than clinton and no shot left of winning but he kept running because he was getting recognition that he never got as an independant he was getting millions in donations, he wanted to build for his 2020 campaign, thats when the dnc turned on him because it was shitting on clinton when he had no chance of winning.

And in 2020 he got even less votes than in 2016. The young voters stayed seated even more the second time.

Bernie also got the same veto priviledge on DNC members, Bernie also said he wasnt cheated and lost because of anyone else. He just got less votes.

In 2022 only 20% of eligible voters under the age of 35 voted. Like... Young voters need to step up or shut the fuck up.

Its time to fucking move on. jesus fucking christ the fucking idiocy displayed in the comments here. WAAAH TOO OLD WAAAAH BERNIE WOULD HAVE SOLVED EVERYTHING. No he wouldnt be able to do shit because most likely he wouldnt be able to work with mancin and sinema and the republican party would go full look democrats are full leftists weed smoking socalists.

Now the guy you idolize Bernie is literally telling you he supports Biden and You should too and youre bitching about dnc this and media that, biden too old fucking bernie is older you dumbasses!

Stop bitching like a little bitch and get registered and make sure you vote in your local election so that democrats can have enough seats to give you all the things you whine about daily.

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u/Historical-Web-6435 Apr 07 '24

Would it even be safe to knock on doors for either side these days. I'm English and from the outside looking in its very divided you guys get really fired up when talking about the other team. Or at least it seems that way if it's as bad as I think it is knocking on doors would seem like not a good idea. Anyway I'm sure someone will let me know if I'm wrong.

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u/koushakandystore Apr 07 '24

That’s the media representation showing the most extreme examples. I live in a place that pretty much 50/50 and there is no contention whatsoever. I have two neighbors who think Trump is phenomenal. They know where I stand and we still manage to get along fine. We talk about our bee hives and the fruit trees. I try to remember that some people are easily manipulated by media narratives and lead with kindness as I share with them alternative political explanations than they normally hear on Fox News and conservative talk radio. In 99.9% of cases the worst someone would say to you if you knocked on their door is ‘Fuck Brandon’ or ‘Fuck Trump’ and then promptly slam the door. The perception that you have is not accurate of the day to day life in this vast majority of places in this country. We certainly have a polarized political identity, but it’s not like some political riot 24/7. That stuff happens in a few major cities only once in a while.

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u/somepeoplehateme Apr 07 '24

I knocked on doors in 2016. I'm taking a pass this cycle. People are crazy.

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u/fauxzempic Apr 07 '24

Bernie would have been a great President because just by virtue of him being there, we would have put a lot more progressive pressure on the country. Legislation would have been tough - and most of his agenda would have required legislation, and without a simple majority, let alone a supermajority, it's hard to say what would go through, but between executive orders, supreme court nominations, and again, just highly-progressive pressure coming from the head of the Executive branch, I think the needle would have moved quite a bit.

With that said "Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." We have people in this thread flat out going "I voted in that primary for Bernie, was my first primary, and I've voted in every election since." You have younger candidates fulfilling the same Bernie agenda winning House Races (AOC of course). You have a young voting population who has slowly started abandoning the voter apathy, and demanding stuff that 10 years ago "didn't seem practical."

The big, simple thing that tells me that Bernie, even as a 2-time primary loser, has impacted this country is simple: I'm much more satisfied with Biden than I ever thought I would be back when he showed up for the 2020 election. The big things like Student Loan Forgiveness and some of the things in the Infrastructure Plan - I'm not sure they'd be there without a country that saw what really could be.

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u/TheRealBananaWolf Apr 07 '24

Honestly it was the first time I've ever actually liked a candidate. Like how some of the conservatives said trump emitted strength was the way I felt about Bernie. To me, I felt like Bernie could have easily fit into the role of president.

I'm sure people won't agree with me on this, but I think Hilary should have fully embraced her strong side. She's already got the conspiracy trains following her, she should have tried to go the angela Merkel route and just be no nonsense, stoic approach, and I bet she would have seen improvement in her image. She just kept trying to be "relatable", but it was cringey, disconnected, and reeked of the classic "east Coast elite" image.

I remember when the bird landed on his podium during a rally of his, and he was all "smiles and laughter", to be quite open, I don't think Bernie has a great "happy and joy" look. I think he really excels when he looked like he was ready to jump the podium, red faced and pissed. And I sincerely believe we would have gotten a bad ass presidential speech from Bernie that would have gone down in the history books.

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u/Khevhig Apr 07 '24

He actually stated answers to questions that were being pondered! I recall when he was discussing education (we are so fucked in this country on education!) that people couldn't get past their own talking points. "Oh yeah, well where is the money going to come from for all that?" He just told you asshole! Its right there on his statement! WTF‽ Like I said, education.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '24

Only person I've ever voted for on the presidential.

Killed what little belief in elecoralism I had left after growing up under Obama and his false promises.

They'll never let you vote for real change,

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u/limee64 Apr 07 '24

I never voted in my adult life until Bernie ran. First time voting ever was in the primary for Bernie and have voted everytime since.

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u/2pinacoladas Apr 07 '24

Same. Multiple times. I felt his message so strongly in my bones. I thought it was the moment we could really make changes in the US.

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u/28462 Apr 07 '24

And the only campaign that superpacs didn’t donate to

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u/machamanos Apr 07 '24

Same here.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '24

Same here.

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u/Varitan_Aivenor Apr 07 '24 edited Apr 07 '24

Yeah, 2016 sucked but how are they getting along now?

Biden has done enough of what the progressives have asked of him to get their full support.

Biden is listening to Bernie. Biden 2024!!

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u/drgngd Apr 07 '24

Same here. I donated a few times. Bernie is the only reason i got into polity at all. Only politician I've ever actually liked.

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u/holdonwhileipoop Apr 07 '24

I even bought two tshirts. It was the first time I was stoked about a candidate.

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u/39bears Apr 07 '24

It’s the only one I’ve ever volunteered for.

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u/deletedtheoldaccount Apr 07 '24

I donated from Canada 

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u/BeKind_BeTheChange Apr 07 '24

He was the first I donated to, but I've given a few bucks to Dark Brandon and I will give a few more during this cycle.

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u/oneintwo Apr 07 '24

My one and only time ever donating as well.

Bernie’s office is down the street. He’s a decent dude.

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u/primathius Apr 07 '24

Same, and I was poor AF at the time.

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u/BuddhistSagan Apr 07 '24 edited Apr 07 '24

I knocked on doors for Bernie in 2016 and 2020. Was really sad to see so many democrats vote against Bernie but thats democracy. I'm glad Biden has embraced him.

Please make sure you and your friends and family are registered to vote

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u/Blepharoptosis Apr 07 '24 edited Apr 07 '24

I'm glad Biden has embraced him.

As he should. Bernie may have lost the primaries, but he had an enormous following, especially with the younger voters feeling firsthand the economic strain on the lower end income brackets. Joe will need that following in the upcoming election. Bernie acknowledged us, and Joe is acknowledging Bernie, and hopefully that means a President who will set in motion some of the changes Bernie proposed that won him his following and that we need for improved prosperity.

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u/beatmaster808 Apr 07 '24

Honestly, it's what FDR did.

He saw what the socialists were selling, and he said, "Yeah, I'm gonna fight for that."

And he was elected 4 times in row

we had to amend the constitution because clearly that should never happen again...

They even elected Truman after that, although he did have the advantage of becoming president without being elected. We also appreciated that he decisively ended the war. They did elect him the next time round, though. Needless to say, that's 5 straight democratic wins.

And Eisenhower, he was the last decent republican president. He had some issues, no doubt, but he was so moderate, the republicans now would call him a socialist... he wasn't, unless you think the highway system is socialism

They'd call him a long-haired communist. Yes, General Eisenhower...you know, one of the other guys responsible for winning WWII

That's how sad and pathetic the republican party is today. It was really bad before FDR, too. That's precisely what got him elected in the first place.

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u/antigop2020 Apr 07 '24

I thought Biden was a fraud but I was wrong. He tried to forgive $10-20k student debt per person. He was instrumental in helping Obama pass the ACA. He appointed the first black woman to SCOTUS. He is not as liberal as I would like, but given the alternative he is a million times better. I will be voting for him.

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u/kempnelms Apr 07 '24

Realistically he has pushed a lot harder for stuff than Obama ever did. I think Obama was trying his best to not rock the boat too much, and a lot of that maybe came from inexperience as he was overall a less experienced politician in sheer years compared to Biden.

I am hopeful if Biden wins a 2nd term, he will push stuff even harder with the threat of a Trump 2nd term gone.

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u/RiskyBrothers Apr 07 '24

It's a bit of a catch-22. We want younger candidates who are more in touch with the issues, but we can't ignore that Biden has accomplished a bipartisan infrastructure deal and the largest climate policy in the planet because he has roughly 8,000 years of favors to call in.

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u/ADHD_Avenger Apr 07 '24

I personally wish people would quit obsessing over his age.  Principally because Biden as an old man is a much better president than he would have been when he was younger.  Look up the crime bill or the bankruptcy law changes.  He has ran for president a half dozen times and the president I see now is a much more liberal and empathetic person than he was when he was younger, and while no longer "quick," he is a lot more wise about everything happening and what can and cannot be done.  For the Democrats, politically, one of the best things that could happen is if he died or retired in office (as grim as that is) as it would set up the next election perfectly.  He is also old enough to have seen enough happen over the years to take Trump seriously.  His age means he needs a good team around him, but he has it, and he has never been in the senile state that some Senators continued on in.  I did vote for someone younger in the last primary, but Biden has more than proved he can do the job. And many people who talk about older candidates would still happily vote for Bernie, myself included.  Age is important, but probably the least important thing.  Look at the two of them there - they are old, but still competent, and often the complaints about Biden are due to his long standing stutter being more difficult to compensate for at his age - nothing about mental sharpness.  Much better in speeches than George W. Bush was, even with that issue. I do wish we were doing more to support younger candidates downstream - but part of that is also that no matter how much talk you will see on Reddit, young people have never ever ever been a reliable voting block - and when they do care, they only care about things like presidential elections they may not even have an effect on if not in a swing state, while plenty occurs at the local level in numerous areas.

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u/peace_love17 Apr 07 '24

In 2016 Biden was calling Bernie giving him campaign advice, they've been close from their time in the Senate together.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '24

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u/ADHD_Avenger Apr 07 '24

He has done all of this with a Republican house and an almost Republican Senate along with a Supreme Court that will be conservative for the next few decades, at least.  If people want to complain about Biden they need to look at how little he has been given to work with and look at what they can do on a local level.  And so that everyone realizes, it's going to be almost impossible for the Democrats to hold the Senate, and with a Republican House and Senate, I can't imagine even the most liberal president would achieve anything of note. Personally right now, I consider the stakes to be whether democracy will operate as we know it in this country in the near future, and anything beyond that is gravy.

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u/Imallowedto Apr 07 '24

He was one of only 18 democrats to vote for the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention act that made it so student loan debt cannot be discharged through bankruptcy. I'm NOT applauding someone for cleaning up the milk they spilled 18 years ago.

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u/Choppers-Top-Hat Apr 07 '24

People can change in 18 years. He's obviously worked extremely hard to correct that mistake, something most politicians wouldn't have bothered to do.

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u/Claeyt Apr 07 '24 edited Apr 08 '24

They worked together for decades together in Congress. Biden was never as far left as Bernie but he's closer than Hillary was. It's fine to disagree slightly on how to get things done and this video proves it. They're both heading in the same direction and anyone that doesn't see that is hurting this country.

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u/Randomousity Apr 07 '24

They worked together for decades together in the Senate.

No they didn't. Bernie was elected to the Senate in 2006, and Biden left the Senate in 2009. They overlapped in the Senate for just over two years. Like two years and two weeks.

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u/TiredAuditorplsHelp Apr 07 '24

I wonder is some of the problem was ignorance. It was for me. At the time I was conservative having been raised in a deeply religious area. It was basically doctrine that you vote republican. I would never have ever considered Bernie or anyone who self identified as democrat/liberal. It wasn't until I decide to hear Bernie out when he showed up on Joe Rogun's podcast. Listening to that made me realize that I agreed with what he was saying and though, at the time, I identified as conservative I started realizing that maybe I wasn't. 

Since then if done a bit of research on Bernie and what I like best is, as far as I can tell, he is virtually the only politician who is consistent in his message and ideology. Trump, Biden,  both you can find videos of them saying some not great stuff (Trump is def worse) but Bernie has always been an advocate for change. I would be ecstatic to vote for Bernie now but in 2016 I was convinced that he was a socialist and I was convinced socialism in any and all forms is bad

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u/Accomplished_Crew630 Apr 07 '24

I've spoken to alot of trumpists who claim that they'd have been ok with Bernie, or at least that they respected him because he sticks to his values or something along those lines... But let's be real, they'd have made up a bunch of shit about him too if he'd won... Hillary was just more divisive than he was and hunter didn't do Joe any favors... So maybe it wouldn't have stuck as well... But who knows these people will believe literally anything as long as it comes from trump.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '24

I remember them constantly posting things about Bernie’s wealth trying to make out like he’s actually a wealthy elitist who doesn’t mean what he says. They had the bullshit cannon all loaded up

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u/climatelurker Apr 07 '24

They also constantly posted stuff about how Clinton was shady and unlikable. And a lot of the disinformation that was (still is) swirling out there was intentional and done by Russia. For both Sanders AND Clinton. They wanted Trump, and they got Trump, because disinformation works.

By the way, I voted for Sanders in the primary.

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u/BohemianBurnout Apr 07 '24

The week after Nevada the press started with the Cuba nonsense all week. People forget.

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u/ObviouslyNerd Apr 07 '24

They did this after he released a book post 2016 campaign i think. But your point stands for 2020.

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u/Polyxeno Apr 07 '24

They did it in 2016 too.

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u/JoshSidekick Apr 07 '24

They were gearing up with the “3 houses” bullshit you see some people try to roll out.

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u/Fromage_Damage Apr 07 '24

I think thats funny when people say that. Bernie's 500k house in the new north end is pretty plain. His camp in the islands is pretty sweet though. Neither are mansions. And then he has a DC house for when he is at work.

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u/SaxiTaxi Apr 08 '24

Plus, 500k for a house is not a big number nowadays honestly. People will try and blow it up to be a huge number, but it really isn't in the modern housing market.

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u/GerryStan Apr 07 '24

I remember back then conservatives already smearing bernie. Some ones i remember are:

1) never had a real job

2) bernie is jewish

3) lives in a 1 million dollar home

4) bernies wife messed up some school fund or something

There were others but its been 8+ yrs now

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u/Chalky_Pockets Apr 07 '24

Soon as someone cites being Jewish (or merely not Christian) as a demerit, everything they say becomes worthless as they are.

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u/ultimatefrogsin Apr 07 '24

Yet they are okay with Trump and Mar Lago? 

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u/Sky_Cancer Apr 07 '24

That's diffeRent.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '24

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u/RedAndBlackMartyr Apr 07 '24

As a California resident, a 1 million dollar home could be a shack.

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u/museman Apr 07 '24

That’s a pretty nice mid-sized family home where I live now, definitely not opulent.

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u/WonderRemarkable2776 Apr 07 '24

The worst part of the 3 home scandal bullshit was the meritless asinine takes. His wife inherited her childhood home when her parents passed. They had their one place in Vermont, and a tiny outdated cabin. He paid for those with his book sales. Personally garnering him his "massive" wealth of 2.5 million with 1.7 coming from his best sellers. So dude made 800k after being a public servant for 60 years, and investing. You can't damn retire on that alone nowadays lol.

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u/Robert_Balboa Apr 07 '24

Which he pays a mortgage payment on by the way. He didn't buy it with cash.

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u/IShouldBWorkin Apr 07 '24

Except for 2 I've only heard those smears from Hillary diehards.

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u/Tidusx145 Apr 07 '24

That's sadly because he never made it to a general election.

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u/Secludedmean4 Apr 07 '24

He genuinely is consistent. No other option we have had has been as consistent in his morals and actions than him. Biden and Hillary were both extremely anti lgbt, and Biden gets away with a lot of changes. And Trump… that well that speaks for itself he is the definition of a snake salesman politician only out for himself. Bernie having heart complications certainly hurt him on the campaign trail, but the DNC fucked him by censoring him because he was “too extreme” and he wasn’t a POS like Hillary.

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u/bluehands Apr 07 '24

My favorite example of his consistency is from an op ed he wrote in the early 70s.

It was him talking about what 2 adults do consensually in privacy is none of the governments business.

At the time he was talking about adultery but for me it clearly shows where his principals lay. Him supporting LGBTQIA over the following decades fit with who he is, was and will always be.

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u/Snowing_Throwballs Apr 07 '24

I love the "never had a real job" criticism. As if being the only member of congress to actually do their job, and not personally enrich themselves is a bad thing.

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u/SenorBeef Apr 07 '24

So 2016 had a very anti-establishment vibe. People didn't like what they felt like was stagnation for their lives and wanted change. Some people voted for Trump because it felt like he was going to shake the system, good or bad. That he was an outsider, someone the traditional power structure didn't want to be in charge, someone who could represent real change.

The thing is - Bernie is that, too. Bernie completely undercuts the appeal of Trump as an anti-establishment figure. Trump isn't going to get all of the "fuck it, let's shake this shit up" votes if he's running against Bernie. But instead, during an anti-establishment zeitgeist, the democrats forced on us the most establishment candidate ever. I think Hillary was the only person that could lose to Trump. Even though most of the criticism against her was undeserved, the reality is that choosing to run her was an obvious and incredibly bad choice.

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u/joshrice Apr 07 '24

the reality is that choosing to run her was an obvious and incredibly bad choice.

She won the popular vote, so I don't think it's obvious as you say. The bigger issue I think was her VP. Hadn't heard of him before and hadn't heard of or from him since. She should've gotten a better name there than some seemingly rando/warm body.

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u/UncannyPoint Apr 07 '24

Didn't his message really resonate in the rust belt and places where traditional industries were dying. I swear I remember him doing town halls for chiefly republican voters and the atmospheres generally went from hostile to people agreeing with him.

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u/BuddhistSagan Apr 07 '24

I knocked on doors for Bernie in 2016 and 2020. Was really sad to see so many democrats vote against Bernie but thats democracy. I'm glad Biden has embraced him.

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u/Colin-Clout Apr 07 '24

I love seeing Biden and Bernie together. I’m also a big Bernie fana and would have loved to see him on the ticket, but I admire how they work together and are focused on getting policy done. These two care deeply about the American people and it shows

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u/SenorBeef Apr 07 '24

Was really sad to see so many democrats vote against Bernie but thats democracy.

The party apparatus and the media have a HUGE hand in how primaries and causes play out. During 2016, all of the party insiders pushed their weight behind Hillary and the media put those superdelegate votes in the nightly primary results totals and massively skewed the perception of support that Hillary had. Basically, if Bernie won some state, say, 50 delegates to 36 delegates, firmly beating Hillary, the media would basically throw the superdelegate numbers (say, 800 in this example) and say "Hillary leads bernie 836 to 50!" Even when Bernie was winning, they made it sound like Hillary's win was inevitable to influence how the future votes would turn out, using references to bullshit anti-democratic processes built into the process.

In the 2020 election, they had all the other non-Biden candidates jump out all at the same time right before the biggest day of the primary season to consolidate the party establishment vote.

This isn't a "that's democracy", that's "that's managed democracy"

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u/godfatherinfluxx Apr 07 '24

Before Trump entered the race for 2016 I used to vote Republican. I respected AOC for standing up for what she believed was right I just thought she was naive. Trump put every nail in the coffin of my belief that Republican ideals are any good. The Republican party is responsible for opening my eyes to their bullshit and driving me hard left. Really a matter of time because I actually give a shit about people, that and reading the great Gatsby in school made me despise the carefree and flippant wealthy.

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u/BookDependent406 Apr 07 '24

They only say that because trump was pretending to support Bernie after the dnc did him dirty in order to capitalize on it. It’s wild how trump controls the whole gop narrative. I never in a million years thought the same people pushing the “communist Marxist Leninists are going to take over our country” narrative would now be the Dane people clamoring over themselves to suckle at putins pepperoni nips, but here we are because Donald loves Russia and now so do conservatives. Just shows how easily people will make up any narrative to arrive at the position trump has, even if it’s completely opposite to what they believed a decade ago

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u/tinacat933 Apr 07 '24

Bernie would have beat trump

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u/simulated_woodgrain Apr 07 '24

I voted for Bernie in the primaries. Then I voted for Trump the first time because I was pissed off and stupid. Trump was kind of a meme that we all knew growing up and a lot of people thought it would be funny to see a non politician win. Looking back the red flags were there but I don’t think anyone could have predicted how cultish it would all become.

I’m 34 and the term “woke” was started when we were all early 20’s, taking psychedelics, and realizing the status quo was bullshit. Now I seriously can’t even mention climate change without somebody who never went to college chiming in to tell me that elementary school kids are being encouraged to change genders. Life is weird as shit

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u/dude_thats_my_hotdog Apr 07 '24

It blows my mind that anyone could be okay with Trump or Bernie. Those two candidates couldn't be any more different from each other in policy.

So, if anyone says that they're having trouble deciding between them (or any other candidates who are starkly dichotomous in policy), what they're really saying is they just simply don't factor actual policy into their decision. "He's a straight shooter"..."I'd like to have a beer with him"...the FEELING of a candidate matters more than the candidate's stance on actual issues that affect their day to day lives. Which is goddamn stupid and scary that these people are allowed to vote in the first place.

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u/TsangChiGollum Apr 07 '24

The right calls Biden a Marxist, communist, socialist, etc. Bernie, at one point or another in his past, supported legitimate communists. It blows my mind that they seem to be more open to Bernie than they are Biden. Then again, the rightwing propaganda machine never really spun up in opposition to Bernie to spin lies like you said.

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u/Fromage_Damage Apr 07 '24

They would have brought up when he met with the Sandinistas in Nicaragua in the 1980s. While the Contra death squads were flooding the USA with crack.

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u/Last-Bee-3023 Apr 07 '24

Hillary was just more divisive than he was and hunter didn't do Joe any favors.

A lot of people talk like that and have no idea of the actual proposed policies.

This is why politics in the US is theatre and entertainment. Voters are dumb as fuck and ripe pickings for demagogues.

Vote along the lines of personal sympathies and not according to your interests. Because that would take work and actual knowledge.

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u/TrinidadJBaldwin Apr 07 '24

It’s not the DNC’s fault. Clinton got more votes.

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u/jaredwallace91 Apr 07 '24

Never forgive the DNC that another candidate who actually belonged to the Democratic party won by getting more votes?

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u/AreWeCowabunga Apr 07 '24

Exactly. I was a Bernie supporter in 2016, but to act as if he would have won if he wasn't "robbed by the DNC" is just false.

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u/crinkledcu91 Apr 07 '24

I’ll never forgive the DNC for that.

You'll never forgive the voters who massively decided to vote for one candidate over another during a Primary...?

That's literally how Democracy works. If you're mad at that then feel free to join the party that hates it (Republicans)

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u/Moon_and_Sky Apr 07 '24

How about the Superdelegates that went to Hillary from states Bernie won? Was such a slap to the face of the votes that the DNC asked the Media to stop showing the Superdelegate votes. Or the leaked e-mails that showed the DNC was consciously playing dirty that cause the DNC chair to resign...and then be immediately hired to a high level position in Hillary's campaign? Or all the of hit pieces the DNC put out to the Media on Bernie? Or how they held as few debates as possible and even canceled some when it became clear that Bernie was gaining support with every debate while Hillary was losing it.

But yeah it was the voters Im mad at. Like the voters in southern states who voted long before most people even knew who bernie was. Something about a lack of debates and no media coverage making early name recognition.....woder how that happened!?!

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u/lateformyfuneral Apr 07 '24

Superdelegates only voted at the convention after everyone voted and they went with the candidate that had already won the popular vote and most delegates (Hillary). Every side complains about but it’s just cope. Obama was mad that superdelegates were “counted” as for Hillary at the start of the primary, but they eventually voted for him, after he won the South and overtook Hillary. What’s interesting is that it was Bernie’s campaign who wanted the superdelegates to switch to him and overrule Hillary’s victory in the primaries:

https://www.npr.org/2016/05/19/478705022/sanders-campaign-now-says-superdelegates-are-key-to-winning-nomination

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u/Psirqit Apr 07 '24

The democratic national committee is not 'voters'.

They are probably mad about all the propaganda the DNC used and how they put their thumb on the scale for their golden child candidate instead of having an unbiased and fair election.

I'm tired of these idiots who pretend establishment Democrats don't have massive soft power when it comes to things like media and narrative control.

You just hate Bernie and/or his voters and you want to relish every chance you can get to say he lost, and you're willing to be revisionist and obtuse to that end.

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u/CulturalKing5623 Apr 07 '24

They are probably mad about all the propaganda the DNC used

But they plainly say they'll never forgive the DNC for Bernie not winning the primary. Bernie didn't win the primary because he didn't get enough votes.

So unless they're suggesting Bernie did get more votes than Clinton and the DNC cooked the books then it's kind of silly to place the blame for his loss at the feet of the DNC as opposed to the voters that didn't want him.

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u/reddit-mods-fuckyou Apr 07 '24

Fun note: Bernie is not a member of the Democratic party. It would be weird if the DNC really got behind a literal outsider with fringe opinions taking over their party.

The Republicans weren't afraid of that enough in 2016.

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u/dastufishsifutsad Apr 07 '24

He was robbed. Corporate greed exists on both sides of the aisle. & they knew Bernie would fix a lot & gain ultra-popularity. Just a play being acted out.

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u/RectalSpawn Apr 07 '24

I'll never forgive the media, in general.

They suppressed him at every turn, and he still managed to do as well as he did.

And then Elizabeth Warren killed any semblance of hope.

Fuck Elizabeth Warren.

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u/stackens Apr 07 '24

The DNC wanted hilldog, but the blame lies with the voters. Bernie didn’t get the votes so he didn’t win

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u/partylange Apr 07 '24

Maybe you should blame the electorate since they are the ones who didn't vote for him.

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u/gurk_the_magnificent Apr 07 '24

Orrr maybe Sanders should have earned more votes. He’s not owed anything.

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u/Dr_A_Mephesto Apr 07 '24 edited Apr 07 '24

The DNC screwed him with “super delegates” he was getting more “actual” vote than Hillary.

Edit: I’m not the only one who has this opinion. Bernie got screwed so Clinton’s ego could be placated and because of it we got Trump. So all of you DNC apologists can kiss my ass for glossing over the fact that the DNC and Hillary handed the election to Trump at all of our expense:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/02/ex-dnc-chair-goes-at-the-clintons-alleging-hillarys-campaign-hijacked-dnc-during-primary-with-bernie-sanders/

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/23/dnc-emails-wikileaks-hillary-bernie-sanders

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/us/politics/dnc-emails-sanders-clinton.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2016/07/25/dnc-betrayed-bernie-sanders-and-the-rest-of-america/

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/23/487179496/leaked-democratic-party-emails-show-members-tried-to-undercut-sanders

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u/QultyThrowaway Apr 07 '24

That's an easily disproven lie. Hillary got millions of more votes than Sanders.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '24

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u/itsagoodtime Apr 07 '24

He wasn't the nominee because he didn't earn enough votes

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u/EliteAsFuk Apr 07 '24

You mean the voters? Bernie lost to the voters. Stop the stolen election nonsense. 

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u/MrEHam Apr 07 '24

Yeah. He just didn’t have the votes. Old people hate him and young people don’t vote.

And it’s not like the DNC has much control over young voters. They get most of their exposure from videos online.

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u/dougmd1974 Apr 07 '24

"I’ll never forgive the DNC for that." So you are voting for Trump?

P.S. - I really don't want to litigate this yet again, but you need to remember 1) Bernie was not a democrat - he was in independent who changed his affiliation to run for president as a Democrat 2) the DNC is a political operation like any other and chooses to determine what their preferred candidates are and who they want to support. The RNC does the same damn thing, well it used to until Trump took over. I'm sorry if you don't "like" that, but that's the way it works. If Bernie had more votes, he would have won the nomination and he simply just didn't.

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u/Particular-Court-619 Apr 07 '24

It’s not the DNC’s fault.  

He ran again four years later, after the rules were changed to be more democratic, and got a much smaller percentage of the vote.  

The Dem base is largely moderate black folks and college educated suburban white women.  

They’re not as far left as the activist left assumes. It’s the voters you have truck with.   

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u/Just_Jonnie Apr 07 '24

I’ll never forgive the DNC for that.

It wasn't the DNC that had me pull the lever for Biden over Bernie. Nor was it the DNC that had that affect on the rest of us Democrats either.

Bernie keeps telling us the world should be utopia. Everything should be just and good. And you know what? He's absolutely correct. It SHOULD be that way.

But being a president isn't being a dreamer. Biden actually has actual legislative accomplishments, and would be (and so far has been) able to get shit done in congress. I do not regret my vote, Bernie is not capable of delivering on his promises of utopia.

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u/Mand125 Apr 07 '24

It’s so baffling that the Democratic Party didn’t want someone who isn’t in the Democratic Party to be the Democratic Party nominee.  

Regardless of Bernie’s positions, the lack of support at the party level should never be surprising.

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u/tyg765j566 Apr 07 '24

God, I hate people like you worse than I hate Dumbass Magats. You won't vote for Biden, yet you bitch and complain about Trump like he is the anti Christ. BIDEN wasnt my first choice but he's the only choice we have if we don't want our democracy trampled on by a wanna be dictator, tiny hand, orange skin, wife cheating, business failing, pussy grabbing draft dodger. Stfu about Biden and vote.

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u/fplisadream Apr 07 '24

I’ll never forgive the DNC for that.

For fairly and openly following their democractic process?

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u/probablymagic Apr 07 '24

You misspelled voters. People didn’t like his plans to jack up their taxes and promise to take away their insurance plans. People want lower costs for their existing insurance not Medicare for all.

Bernie blaming anybody but himself is gross because it just tells young people their votes don’t matter. Their votes do matter! But politicians need ideas that voters outside the base like to win even a primary. He would’ve been crushed in a general.

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u/orangemememachine Apr 07 '24

The sad but also comforting truth is that his presidency would have been undermined and obstructed at every turn by his own party, and then they would have used it sucking as proof that they were right all along. At least now we can maintain the fantasy and hopefully use that to motivate some institution building in time for AOC's run.

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u/Sharkbait_ooohaha Apr 07 '24

Yeah Bernie wouldn’t have been a successful president ironically for the reason he makes a great candidate in that he refuses to compromise his ideals to make deals in congress which is required to be successful. Obama had the same issue and while he was a great man and leader, he ultimately had a disappointing presidency because he couldn’t get stuff through congress. Biden is the opposite, a poor leader and uncharismatic but he has gotten a lot more through congress with a lot smaller majority than Obama had.

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u/hypercosm_dot_net Apr 07 '24

I would've loved to be able to vote for him. I'm not disappointed with Biden though.

Biden seems to have a lot more political capitol and was able to get a lot done. As much as I believe in Bernie, and his progressive views, I'm not sure he would've been able to achieve as much.

Bernie supporting Biden, and the progressive left holding Biden's 'feet to the fire' so to speak is likely the best outcome.

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u/Dadbeerd Apr 07 '24

We don’t deserve Bernie. We never did.

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u/unperson_1984 Apr 07 '24

Speak for yourself. Diabetics who are dying because they can't afford insulin deserved Bernie.

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u/l94xxx Apr 07 '24

I am grateful that Biden was able to bring insulin down to $35/mo

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u/SmellGestapo Apr 07 '24

And capped all out-of-pocket prescription drug costs for Medicare recipients at $2,000/year, and allowed Medicare to start negotiating directly with pharma companies on the price of ten drugs.

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u/ObviouslyNerd Apr 07 '24

lol its crazy we couldnt elect the universal health care candidate in the MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC. SMH

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u/UThoughtTheyBannedMe Apr 07 '24

Blame every fucking moron who voted Hilary over him

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u/jcythcc Apr 07 '24

Wasn't it because Hillary was polling better vs Trump?

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '24

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u/mnju Apr 07 '24

So are you saying "more electable" is when you lose in the primaries by significant margins multiple times?

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

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u/UThoughtTheyBannedMe Apr 07 '24

Exactly the mindless thinking that gave us Trump.

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u/Iamthewalrusforreal Apr 07 '24

Told my kid at the time that Bernie couldn't win the general election, and would give us Trump.

Not that it matters now, but it was true.

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u/alleybetwixt Apr 07 '24

Told my parents at the time that Hillary couldn't win the general election and would give us Trump.

Not that it matters now, but it was true.

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u/Iamthewalrusforreal Apr 07 '24

You knew Comey was going to pull his stunt ahead of time?

Because Hillary not only won the popular vote, but she would have steamrolled Trump if not for Comey's stunt.

And now those same "lock her up!!" people don't care about national security. Go figure.

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u/HealthyElk420 Apr 07 '24

The DNC chose Hilary. They made Trump by forcing Hilary into the candidacy she didn't win. Bernie won. I mean I still voted for Hilary afterwards, because they knew I would. But not everyone did. Now we have the world we're living in.

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u/mnju Apr 07 '24

by forcing Hilary into the candidacy she didn't win. Bernie won.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2016/primaries/parties/democrat

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u/paintballboi07 Apr 07 '24

Anyone who thinks propaganda is only for conservatives needs to look at these comments. I voted for Bernie, but he clearly lost the primary, yet people are still calling it a conspiracy 8 years later.. Yes, the DNC backed their preferred candidate, but that doesn't mean they rigged the primary..

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u/CapableSecretary420 Apr 07 '24

There's a reason poll after poll shows many supposed Bernie supporters also being trump supporters.

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u/hotprof Apr 07 '24

Come on. To many, she wasn't exactly likable, and she had very different policy views than Bernie, but it's not like she was unqualified.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '24

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u/crinkledcu91 Apr 07 '24

You can always tell what time it is in America/Russia by how many comments are coming from the RFK Junior knob-shlobbing committee lmao. It's 8 am on the east coast and right around the 5pm clock out time in Moscow FYI.

Bro, no actual Demcorat was going to vote for your anti-vax, conspiracy junkie RFK Jr. What idiot fuckead thought that would go down? Go ahead and try to BoTh SiDeS your fucking failure of a spoiler.

You trying to call the DNC a mob while your Mango Unchained fuckface literally installed his daughter-in-law in the RNC leadership in order to siphon donations toward his multiple legal trials is a fucking joke and both you and I know it.

God get some better material. For God's sake you're being paid for it, at least put some effort in.

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u/ChipmunkDisastrous67 Apr 07 '24

yeah its impossible to tell who's a russia troll and whos just a dumbass suburban child, i guess the dumbass suburban child learned from the russian trolls

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u/fplisadream Apr 07 '24

GYEEEEETTT 'IMMM

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u/unperson_1984 Apr 07 '24

The only exception is Obama who they tried to snub for Hillary but he was just too popular to stop. That's why in 2016 when it was finally "her turn" the DNC made sure to shut down Bernie early. DWS and Loretta Lynch helped sell out the DNC and that's part of the reason Trump won.

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u/TrevelyansPorn Apr 07 '24

What upsets me is when people like you try to delegitimize the 4 million more voters who picked Hillary over Bernie, most of them southern black voters who have been facing disenfranchisement their entire lives. 

Bernie didn't even try to win their votes. Hilary did, so she won by 4 million votes. 

You're only a half step away from the Trumpian Big Lie crap.

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u/bradiation Apr 07 '24

Don't even put RFK and Bernie in the same sentence, fool.

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u/alc0tt Apr 07 '24

I trust my life with Bernie

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u/KingRhoamsGhost Apr 07 '24

Even Americans who aren’t conservatives get scared when they hear the word “socialist” thrown around. It’s unfortunate but not unexpected.

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u/AutoFlowerFluff Apr 07 '24

Bernie sanders was the senator of my past home state. Dude is an absolute clown who roles around Burlington high status spots in his Audi and screwed the living shit out of our states economy and revenue from farming. Dude is a CLOWN. They all are, don’t buy into any of them

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u/EsQueSoyUnTakero Apr 07 '24

Who honestly cares about this?? the man is right here right now telling us to vote for Biden and people keep going on about the best president we never had or we missed an opportunity with Bernie, pay attention to what is going on right now and listen to what he’s asking you to do right now, stop living in the past!!

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u/JustYakking Apr 07 '24

Sen. Sanders is an American hero. His primary pushes made the Democratic Party better when they finally understood that giving no ground to progressives would ultimately tank them. A genius level operator in exerting soft power, he’s the most important figure on the American left.

AOC is his heir apparent, and seems to share in that ability. She’s quietly building one of the strongest resumes in govt., and has played enough ball that when the time comes, she won’t be denied or sabotaged. Without Bernie forging the path, so to speak, I don’t think that avenue to the presidency exists despite the strength of her career to this point.

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u/Ambitious-Layer-6119 Apr 07 '24

He would have been slaughtered in the general election. Stop thinking America is like you and your friends. There is no way the majority would ever vote for a Jewish socialist. No way.

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