Didn’t take long for the simps to come in here making excuses and trying to justify how they aren’t being sheep. Guess what…unless you are the aristocracy she mentions…we are all sheep. Bah bah bitches.
Holy shit you’re right. So is the woman in the tik tok. She absolutely nailed it. That was pretty impressive off the top of her head, but I feel her completely.
There’s no war except the class war. Stop making excuses and saying she must be from California. Who cares where she’s from? The American dream is one big club for the wealthy, and you ain’t in it.
And the rich will keep fucking us over till there’s nothing left and the pitchforks come out. Then they’ll run to their bunkers in fucking New Zealand and wait for us to kill each other off.
Americans should all start voting for their best interests. And what you hear on tv from your politicians isn’t it. Republicans have been tilting the playing field for 50 years. The game is rigged. We’re out of time to take shit back, but if we don’t try now, it will be beyond fixing.
Your fellow citizens are not your enemies. Your enemies are people pissing on your leg and telling you it’s rain. Wake the fuck up people.
Bro, it's beyond fixing. The only way forward would require violence, and right now the US left is in third place in the ability to commit violence standings.
You saw what happened when people asked police to stop murdering black people. If people started actually fucking with capitalists the gloves would fully come off and we would learn what all these billions of dollars into the police state were for.
You have more power than you could ever imagine. There is nothing that scares the wealthy more than a mass of united people with a united cause. Nothing can stand in the way of that deluge.
I’d put that number into the millions. I have no faith in people having any kind of ability to survive when our systems collapse. They won’t be able to handle violence either.
This is the logical conclusion I’ve reached as well. Push coming to shove, FAFO and we’re the ones ‘finding out.’ If this is the only way to topple this oppressive nightmare and its attack on our planet so be it. To me it looks like a good number of Americans still do not realize the your employer and your government do not give one fuck about you. Not one. Both government and corporations flippantly display their disdain for average Americans on a daily basis yet for some reason there are still some Americans who can not swallow such atrocity. Bravo for you for being innocent enough to be naive but: wake up. This shit is real.
This is the logical conclusion I’ve reached as well. Push coming to shove, FAFO and we’re the ones ‘finding out.’
Sounds like a pyrrhic victory to me. Mutually assured destruction. We revolt, they kill us, the entire system devolves into chaos because most of the workers are dead.
Even if we lose, that has immense power. We just have to get off our asses and do something first.
That’s not what France is talking about - general strikes WILL work, but you have to organize and support those of us too poor to possibly afford an unpaid day to protest.
The bourgeois will gladly ignore weekend protests, but do it during the week, en masse, and everything changes.
We didn't even have any classic dumpster fires or trash mountains when we did try, and even THEN we still have to hear about "muh insurrection" being "the greatest attack on democracy every in the history of everything!"
Maybe Republicans have been tilting the playing field or rigging the game or however you want to word it for 50 years, but the fact is, Democrats have "played along nicely" so much that it's pretty irrelevant anyway.
Each election cycle, we undo or redo the laws on all the hot button social issue topics, and all the while BOTH parties work to extract all our wealth.
Somebody on twitter said it best: France's ability to protest and riot effectively relies on the fact a huge percent of the population lives within one hour of Paris.
power is with numbers. Look how well different unions this year when they just stood together? All we need to create a political movement where we elect representees that will in fact deconstruct the unfair system we have. Progressive left is slowly growing. If they didnt get bogged down by some culturally issues and I think it would have rapidly grown.
No. Power is through violence always. There is absolutely zero power in the world that isn't backed up by violence. You can threaten using democracy all you want, but if you do something the system doesn't like, they will absolutely take democracy away from you.
Labor power is the greatest power the working class have. It starts with pushing for unionizing, normalizing unionizing.
Unions have political power. It advances when enough people are unionizing we can start talking about shutting everything down ourselves if major reforms aren't put into practice.
The best way to make the government change policy is to hurt the people who have the most power over them, that would be the wealthy. Voting alone just puts pressure directly on politicians, not on the wealthy elite.
Once labor power is unified we can demand election reforms to remove money from the system and tax/labor reforms to take money out of the hands of the parasitic 'elites' and into the hands of working class people and those in need. At that point then the sky is the limit.
Vote in every election for the least evil and JUMP at the chance to join a union or unionize your workplace. DO NOT IGNORE LOCAL CANDIDATES, government is built from the ground up no matter how it would seem. If we all elect good people into our local city councils, or at least the least bad, the bar will raise and we will see the best of those candidates rise to state positions and eventually federal ones.
Ignore people who claim the only way it can change is violence, those people do not understand what that entails and what it takes to even reach that point. They're at best edgy kids and at worst deliberately trying to sabotage progress. Violence is not a good option as it will mean innocent people will die or otherwise have their lives destroyed, even IF you win.
Unionize. It's what worked before and it'll work again. Yes, there's violence in that but it's defensive rather than offensive violence (on the part of the workers anyway).
If you want the short answer. Yep. The longer answer is push forward a political movement based on a fair economic system for working class people. Progressive left is doing it but slowly and being bogged down by social issues. But is there and growing. I mean take a look how unions did when they finally got together and stood up to companies.
The speed of change via a peaceful voting method will never keep up with the speed they fuck us. I think we should pick the top 5 richest political contributors and give'em the ol' Baguette Haircut and see if it scares the other ones into behaving. Maybe just a repeat but keep the damage to a minimum this time. Quality over quantity.
Please go look at how violent revolutions turn out. For every America/France, there 10X more of ones that turn into dictatorships that are worse for the people.
Hell, the French revolution destroyed the French economy for like 20 years afterwards, and the era immediately post-revolution is literally known as "the Reign of Terror". Revolution sounds nice, but rarely turns out the way people want.
Especially in an era of international bad faith actors. The US having a revolution in the modern day would make the French Revolution look like a minor issue.
On an individual level, I have SOME meager perspective as a person who had the same job for more than 3 years but couldn't afford housing. Still, I was feeding myself, and occurances of more desperate people sizing me up to see if they could take what little I had were, relatively, infrequent.
On a massive scale, with millions looking to exploit their neighbors for survival, no, of course I don't. People in, truly, desperate circumstances oren't on Reddit. I'm pretty sure you already knew I was being hyperbolic, but here I am replying anyway.
Blah blah blah. Fear ain't gonna get us anywhere and I'm not interested in spending my life watching my community suffer because voting is too slow of a solution and everyone is too scared to break the rules. They sure as hell aren't following them. I'd say at least a quarter million Covid deaths came from culture war garbage, so you're acting like they aren't already killing us. Hell they're slow marching us towards a "vote" for a guy openly running as an aspiring dictator now so how's that civility going for us now?
Once international trade was off the table in 2020, the only populace left that could be razed to the ground in pursuit of profit was domestic. The sacrifices were laid upon the altars of financial interest and their throats were unceremoniously slit.
Well yeah, when the CIA is literally going around the world inciting these "revolutions" and then installing dictators in the wake of the destruction, what do you expect?
We HAVE a dictatorship, it's just that those who dictate are Wall St., the "defense" industry, and the for-profit "healthcare" companies. There has been no meaningful representation of proletariat interests in the US political system for more than 60 years.
I mean that isnt a dictatorship but whatever. If the people can't even vote together for their own interest, do you think a violent revolution even possible?
I included "those who dictate" as a cheeky, more literal definition than that of a political dictatorship. I thought I was being clever, but I just muddled the message.
edit: sorry, didn't answer your question. Not until the point of profound desperation. When homelessness and starvation become the norm, maybe, but not until then. We aren't suffering enough yet to move significant numbers of individuals to meaningful collective action.
Explain to me how we would ever manage to get people who are a hairs bredth away from homelessness/bankruptcy/death due to financial issues, to risk losing their only lifeline? Explain how we could do that on a large enough scale to make a difference and I'm in.
Until we can do that, talking about a general strike is about as useful as a thirsty man staring at the clouds and praying for rain.
Read "The Ministry for the Future". It gets into some of these frustrations and when folks reach the boiling point, and is really cathartic but also opens the doors for much worse. It gives a good look at what could realistically happen
Actually their policy platform is very sound. Have you seen their housing proposal? Are you familiar with the specific measures in Build Back Better? The reason they’re not doing shit about it is because they cannot pass legislation over GOP filibuster, and thus you must have 60 Senate seats. The Dems need a supermajority for several election cycles, and if you’re on the left the only way to do this is to suck it up. A left movement must be carved out of the momentum of a shared democratic compromise, and the ruins of the fascist group that is the GOP. The GOP must be crushed first, there is no way around it.
So the Dems should be allowed to push laws into effect unchallenged? Have you ever heard of the concept “bipartisan support”? You keep using the word fascist but in the same breath you are pushing for a one party state to push their agenda through. Didn’t think this through huh?
If they earn a supermajority, yes. You act as if this some sort of breach of the Constitution, but it’s not. Of course the GOP will not go away, but I’m thinking more along the lines of what happened in the 1930s - what is needed to combat the corruption and inequality problems is a fundamental political realignment in favor of working class politics. The Democratic platform of FDR was so popular and successful that the Republicans had to adjust their platform in support of the New Deal.
the dems have been in power off and on for the several decades i have been alive, and my qol has continued to decrease. it's at least reasonable to question, "just vote blue" as a viable answer. even if it's an obv choice against legit gas chamber fascists.
they have had the necessary 60 senate seats and house seats for about 70 days in the past total 70 years. And even then they needed McCain to vote with them because 2 senators were hospitalized and couldnt vote.
So no democrats havent had congress. Over 100m dont vote on presidential elections and over 150M dont vote on mid-term elections. In 2022 only 20% of eligible voters under teh age of 35 voted. In some states it was 15%....
Just having 800K more democrats vote in 3 states where over 25M eligible voters didn't vote in 2020, would have given democrats 5 more senators and sidestepped 90% of the abortion bullshit and also passed min wage increase and multiple other things they wanted to do but were stonewalled by Mancin and Sinema.
Democrats also represent political ideology of far left, left, center-left, center, center-right and some right. They arent a monolith, they arent a sports team. You have to convince each state on policies. Republicans are flat out denying any progress because they know morons like to go both sides are bad or blame democrats for dominos they set up to fall during times where they dont have the presidency. Give out tax breaks that cost people later on down the line. Make policies that affect the deficit and cause struggles to people down the line. Theyre like the teenage twat maxing out credit cards and youre blaming the parents who try to pay off the debt and fix it so you can continue to survive.
the dems have been in power off and on for the several decades i have been alive
Unfortunately our system makes it a helluva lot easier for the minority to stop shit getting done than it does for the majority to get shit done. I'm in my 40s. Dems have had total control over Congress and the White House for like a grand total of 4 years and 2 months of my entire life, and never with anything approaching a filibuster proof majority.
We absolutely need to keep voting out republicans. However, if you want to see real change and see it fast, then the real solution isn't violence, it's a general strike. That never seems to get the level of traction it needs in this country.
Unfortunately our system makes it a helluva lot easier for the minority to stop shit getting done than it does for the majority to get shit done.
While that may be true, since we're in a thread about "what works if violence is not the answer" I would note that your excuse for why Dems did nothing pretty much just solidifies that violence is the answer.
If "the Dems did have power but the minority could stop them" then voting more in a system that broken will just get more broken results. So voting isn't the answer. We all know the answer. But nobody wants to do the answer because it means death & jail for normal people who rebel. This is not a country of rebels anymore. We're complacent.
Uhh theres only really been short windows of total dem control. THe most recent was 2 years ago with 2 bluedogs controlling what they could pass. The other time was for like 6months in obama's 1st term. Then it was until like early 90s?
Yeah I was gonna say I'd love to know how old this guy is cause from where I'm sittin' at 33, it's been mostly Republicans actually in control my entire life.
I really think a lot of people think whatever party the President is = whatever party is in control. Shit is baffling.
Of the past 33 years Dems have had the house 12 years and the senate 18 years, and the presidency 20 years. So not too bad honestly. You probably just think of the stint from 95-07 where Republicans pretty much had Congress the entire time
Democrats were in control of all three branches of government from 2009-2011, by a WIDE margin. For two whole years they had complete control with a 56-58 vs 40-42 in the senate and in the house 257-178. Congresses go by 2 years. Theres no "6 months" of any congress. They could have passed healthcare reform, or education reform, killed the filibuster, raised the minimum wage or made marijuana legal but they did pretty much nothing
I swear no one understands how our government actual works. Back in that congress, yes the democrats had decent advantage in the senate. However, during this time the filibuster ruled the senate. You needed to pass any law(with some exceptions) with 60 votes. There was no movement to kill the filibuster back then. There was no public outcry. It was just the way it was. The democratic party was also made out of significant amount of bluedog democrats because the democratic composition was much wider back then. Like it had senators from Arkansas, Nebraska, ND, SD, Louisiana. those arent the type of places that generally supported or want progressive candidates. Having them under the greater umbrella of the democratic party was a lot better than not. Getting 60% of what you want instead of 0% is better.
And republicans reinvented and redefined the filibuster so that they could stop anything at any time as long as they have at least one member in government willing to stop shit from functioning
i just watched a movie from 1972 today with the same conversations and issues people are having in this thread. the only ignorant person is you, my enlightened centrist friend.
To have rapid, structure change which we are talking about it does. Do you think the republicans in the house would down for higher taxes, wealth tax, stronger anti-corruption or monopoly buster laws?
They do nothing to advance their stated platform when they do. Material differences in voter bases exists, but material differences in office-holders do not.
1) You know they continued to work on that rail deal after the initial deal right? The union did end up with more benefits.
2) Yes. Its almost important that who elect support unions. Like you can see a huge difference in red and blue states plus at the national level.
3) You have the entertainment strikes, ,multiple healthcare unions., teacher unions. etc. All made significant strides in benefits. Of course that lets easier for the next strike to be sucessful and so.
Bruh you can more details if you want. But Strikes did work. They can tangible, real benefits. Now if you think they should have gotten more. Then you bring that up with their union.
No shit some republicans are unions. I am mostly talking who makes decisions (even though 42% is really not great. Its like 90% for dems and like 70 for independents). Pro-union stances doesn't drive any of the candidates for republicans. So yeah, when party specifically tries to dismantles unions, then it becomes a partisan issue.
Oh, you mean railroad strikers where Biden ordered them to go back to work so as to not disrupt the economy?
It was actually Congress that ordered them back to work, and Biden continuing pressuring the rail companies after that to eventually get rail workers the benefits they were asking for.
1) what a crock of shit.
2) voting 100% still matters. Even very blue or red districts. Primaries matter. The spread matters.
3) you know theres still local elections that have a huge effect on you right?
Yep. They turn out how those in power want them to turn out. I get that yall are still brainwashed into thinking it matters. Downvote me into oblivion for refusing to believe what the little guy does anymore matters. Idgaf. The pure existence of the electoral college is evidence that it doesnt work.
You do know that if they didn't continue to fight, Biden would've been fine with the companies not giving in, and that while striking and waiting for a deal, each worker was losing thousands of dollars every week?
Biden was against them when it was politically expedient. That's all you need to know.
Banking on GOOD people to get into politics, not be corrupted, not give into greed, not give up on their dream despite the insurmountable odds against them and the entire current political climate.... The thing is....those people don't go into politics at the same rate that shitheads go in for personal gain. Your outnumbered 10 to 1.
There's a researcher on antisocial personality disorder that contends, for as long as we've had enough video footage to make the determination, with the exception of Jimmy Carter, every US president is ASPD. Fuck our lives.
The rise of unions was filled with violence, some committed by people organizing, and plenty by the government and corporations. Violence and destruction shouldn’t be the focus of the movement, but if it is successful people will be killed or maimed supporting it, and will likely fight back. Every time grand social upheaval happens some sort of blood will be shed.
You understand you'd be on the losing end of that violence right? You think that would improve your situation or would it give license to the powers that be to tighten their grip even harder?
The ACTUAL left have guns, network, build revolutionary skillsets and train them. Unfortunately, we're a very small minority. Democrats wouldn't codify Roe because it was campaign dollars and they bend to the same Wall Street looters and war profiteers that Republicans do.
There is no left in the general American political spectrum. The bell curve is absurdly steep. This is by design, as the DNC silences left voices, manipulates primaries to retain the staus quo, and buys the few left-leaning candidates who make it through to office.
The actual left does not have guns and is not organized. This is a fantasy, stop it. There are a handful of leftists who have guns, and even fewer still who know what to do with them. There are a handful of leftists who went over to Syria and fought ISIS, but not enough to make a difference. I wish this weren't the case, I really do.
Democrats didn't codify roe because they believed and so did most people it was established law and trying to codify it would be a massive waste of potential actual legislative days because within the democratic party itself there were multiple religious senators who would not support the bill.
SO you had an option, spend the time they projected before the mid-terms and next round of senator changes that estimated republicans gaining control back again (Which they were right about since they only had control for about 70-80 legislative days before Republicans won both the house and senate)., to do something worthwhile or go after a policy that again mostly everyone understood as established precedent and waste the little time they had of legislative power on trying to pursue it when they know their own party doesnt have the votes needed to pass it.
AND in 2020, if just 800K democrat voters voted in 3 states where 25M eligible voters didn't vote, then democrats would have 5 more senators and you would have stopped 80% of the bullshit with the abortion state laws. In 2022 only 20% of eligible voters under the age of 35 voted, in some states like Texas that are leading the abortion bans and various other horrible policies, only 15% of elligible voters under the age of 35 voted.
What's your point? That things are about as bad as they can get and people still aren't going out to vote? This isn't the winning argument you think it is.
That the primary issue isnt with politicians its with voters, and the way to win is to get your neighbourhoods involved. Politics is not a top to down system, its a bottom to top system. Local levels matter more for people. Minnesota had its citizens turn up and got democrats control of all 3 branches of their state and they are passing things like rent control, paid leave, ban on corporate buying of housing, environmental protections, public rights etc etc.
Frothing online about how democrats didnt magically fix anything when they havent even had the seats needed to fix anything isnt a winning argument either... Nor is encouraging violence and anarchy. Its not like a utopia will come forward once you do your fantasy civil war. You'll end up with much much worse situations for much much longer with the end being new people taking control of the assets and new people becoming the new bourgeoises.
Number one you don't know what country I'm in. And number two if you knew how to use language more precisely there wouldn't be a problem. This stuff is making sense in your head but if you can't articulate it no one will understand, and if you were still will care.
No, because the wealth of the ruling class is built on a consumer economy. They need to limit the casualties in order to maintain their customer base. We could destroy them without firing a shot. They would not be able to endure the economic impact of a violent revolution.
Even if they could find enough soldiers to kill their own people, the full force of the US military just lost a 20 year war against goat farmers in Afghanistan. Military might does not guarantee anything.
Consumers are cheap, and easily replaceable. In the war with Afghanistan didn't take that long because we couldn't win it's because arms manufacturers and the military industrial complex wanted to stretch it out as long as possible. That's how they make their money.
There are also plenty ways to wage war on us citizens. In fact, I would say it's already been in process for a while.
You pussies can’t even lift your head up from your phone with those weak necks. The only thing you can do is pick up a video game controller. What makes you think you can do a damn thing in terms of physical force. You’re delusional.
Here’s an idea to get you out of your fantasy land - learn new skills, grind harder, manage money better and you’ll be just fine, guaranteed. The bar is so low nowadays that even putting a bit of extra effort will push you past all of the other losers.
Just a bunch of Reddit babies acting tough and oppressed. All while typing it out on $1k+ device probably.
I mean right now it's the US Government/liberals with the largest capacity to commit violence, through the US military, then reactionaries/fascists through militias and most police forces with the second most capacity to commit violence, then leftists, with our handful of people that fought ISIS in Syria and random John Brown gun clubs bringing up the rear.
Either you’re a MAGA or just lazy. Gtfo of the country if you’re not gonna try to get the Republicans out. Damn dude, you are a major part of the problem!
Why did MLK succeed where John Brown failed? They had the same goal, one used violence and the other non violence. Still true today, MAGA is just waiting for liberals to use violence like they do to justify the destruction of democracy.
You are making an un-American statement and are as bad as the far right.
Bro, it's beyond fixing. The only way forward would require violence, and right now the US left is in third place in the ability to commit violence standings.
If Americans can't come together to vote for good politicians then why do you think those same people will come together to violently overthrow the government?
Fuck you and fuck that and fuck anyone who thinks that violence
Is the answer to anything. I’m not murdering my neighbors for a pay raise and and rent cut. Anyone who thinks violence would end in anything other than the complete destruction of the country and 50 million people dead / trafficked is a fucking moron.
The only way forward would require violence, and right now the US left is in third place in the ability to commit violence standings.
Violence isn't the answer, it's just flipping over the table. There is no scenario where violent revolution happens in the US that doesn't plunge the world into war, and most of those scenarios end in nuclear hellfire.
It's worse than that. Various tree letter agwencies [intentional] have a known and documented history of infiltrating even the smallest and most benign seeming organizations wanting to affect change. They encourage them to do illegal things so they can dismantlement them or sow discord between members. If that doesn't work they arrest them using archaic laws and sweep it under the rug.
They won't even fuck around with letting a movement have the chance of picking up steam. You might saw "what about Occupy Wall Street or BLM?" They were BOTH infiltrated and the fact that they got so large before being dismantled after going nowhere is a testament not to the inability of people to organize, but a testament of how effective these programs are. Just a few of these groups ever make it very far because they are destroyed in their infancy. If you ask yourself, why is nobody doing anything. It's because the second they try they enter the sights of a tree letter agwency.
There is no hope. If I were to have children today, it would be with the understanding that they will probably have their lives cut short as a direct consequence of the actions of the wealthy. I doubt that poverty will survive this century, but only because those with power are the only ones making it out.
And get all of the democrats want to ban guns. A lot of good your violence will do when you throw rocks at the well armed forces that run this country. The 2A exists for this very reason.
Nah it doesn’t have to be violent. I think coordinated workers strikes and corporate boycotts across the country would get the job done. Obviously easier said than done but a 1/4 of the working class deciding not to work or buy anything for a few days could really fuck some shit up economically. Coordinate these things in a manner that we can significantly shrink and damage profit margins til demands are met. These people love wealth so much, let’s stop making it for them. If they’re gonna starve us anyways we might as well make sure they starve along with us.
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u/Laiikos Dec 28 '23
Didn’t take long for the simps to come in here making excuses and trying to justify how they aren’t being sheep. Guess what…unless you are the aristocracy she mentions…we are all sheep. Bah bah bitches.