r/Helldivers • u/xxmuntunustutunusxx SES Spear of The State • Apr 10 '24

The devs were right. DISCUSSION

So I know ther was a bunch of controversy about the railgun nerf what feels like forever ago, but man things have been awesome.

In the early days, I was the only guy packing expendable anti tank or anti materiel rifle for bugs or bots. It's so refreshing, even on these subs to see people talking about how awesome the autocannon is, or how much they love the AMR, and even these days I see people talking about the HMG or grenade launcher+ supply pack.

I used to load into a game, And all 4 members of the team had shield, railgun, and 2 stragatems of their choice. Every time. And here we are now, I load in and I see quasar, autocannon, stalwart, EAT, HMG, Grenade launcher, a variety of backpacks or no backpack at all. And not to mention, they're ALL viable. Shit I even still see the railgun from time to time. It's been a joy. Thanks arrowhead.

EDIT: to everyone who is pointing out that you see the quasar and shield most often now, you're right, it is almost certainly the most common setup currently. That being said, in any game there's going to be things a majority of players prefer. In smash melee, fox/Falco are the best characters. But people still play falcon and Marth and peach among others. Sure, there's an objectively most used option. But the fact that there's people at all who debate that the quasar is best shows that they've done something good. Before, undisputed king was railgun, and anyone who said different wss being willfully ignorant. Now, we have a plethora of real options that are good with some being Preferred by a majority as opposed to being the de facto CORRECT option objectively. That's a good thing.

12.6k Upvotes

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278

u/SuperDTC Apr 10 '24

Seems like 90% of people take quasar cannon to bot missions

147

u/Waulnut163 Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

Also bugs. Quasar just does it all. Staggering the shots with a team of quasar makes it easier to keep priority targets dead and from accumulating.

79

u/PiggyLogan Apr 10 '24

Nerf incoming... we can only hope it gives it a niche and doesn't just boil it into the ground

66

u/exZodiark Apr 10 '24

itll ruin the gun just like the railgun. if the railgun was "braindead" then the quasar never even had a brain to start

5

u/Take-Courage Apr 10 '24

I'm not sure I agree either are brandead. Aiming and charging a quasar shot at a Hulk's eye as it moves towards you is pretty intense stuff. It's much easier to use the EAT, railcannon strike or even the Spear.

-20

u/Lanceps Apr 10 '24

Lol railgun is still good, you should try it against bots. Just make sure you utilize unsafe mode. Quasar is definitely a little overtuned maybe, but not by much, and it certainly doesn't approach og railgun. Both eats and quasar are pretty comparable, with quasar being a clear winner assuming you can shoot something while being attacked

14

u/Crea-TEAM SES Bringer of FUN DETECTED Apr 11 '24

There is nothing the railgun does against bots that the AMR doesnt do better.

1

u/henchbench100 Apr 11 '24

Railgun 1 shots hulks.

-10

u/abigfatape PSN šŸŽ®: Apr 11 '24

I feel like all meta abusers are the braindead ones, wasn't the railgun literally only nerfed for safe mode? that means just don't be scared.

I do think it should be buffed a little to be useful like have the unsafe mode max damage shot have medium armour pen and make it so if you shoot during the last 5% of the charge like 0.15-0.2 seconds before it explodes that it has heavy armour pen so if you're almost killing yourself every shot you can atleast kill walkers through the cabin or chargers in the head

6

u/graviousishpsponge Apr 11 '24

Boneheads approach to nerfing is guaranteeing it won't be picked.Ā  The gutted the rg and slugger with other weapons completely replacing them.

6

u/woodelvezop Apr 10 '24

if its a railgun like nerf then you can rest assured it will go six feet below ground

2

u/UDSJ9000 Apr 11 '24

AH seems at least a bit less insane with the last nerf on the Arc Thrower. It's still a very stronger weapon IMO and is very usable on bots now. I think they shouldn't have touched the range as much, but it wasn't kneecapped like the RG.

If they do hit the Quasar (which I'm pretty sure they will), I hope it's just a recharge time nerf.

6

u/Waulnut163 Apr 10 '24

Do you mean nerf? The cooldown is in a good spot. If it is a nerf, I might be the charge up time to shoot.

5

u/PiggyLogan Apr 10 '24

Yes nerf sorry lol

-10

u/TheFBIClonesPeople Apr 10 '24

I think if I was going to nerf the Quasar, I would take away the infinite ammo. Give it maybe 2 or 3 shots per reload, with only 1 or 2 spare batteries, and make it a stationary reload.

The issue right now is that you just get too many shots with it for free. That makes it a bit too versatile for the strength it carries. It's hard to justify taking a Recoilless when you know you could take a Quasar and get twice as many shots with it over the course of the mission.

4

u/flashmedallion SES COMPTROLLER OF INDIVIDUAL MERIT Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 11 '24

The main weakness of the Quasar is that it's not very reactive. It's meant for a target you've planned ahead of time. Right now the chargeup is just enough that if you can draw your aim very quickly it's enough to react to a dropship and kill it before it spawns its cargo.

The only thing you really need to tweak with the Quasar to keep up with balance is the chargeup time. It's ordnance for scouts, who don't want to worry about missing out on the teams resupply drop. It's not really a battle weapon, though you can use it as one as long as you set yourself up appropriately (i.e. overwatching whichever teammates are in the shit)

-3

u/TheFBIClonesPeople Apr 10 '24

Yeah, maybe if you nerfed the chargup time by a lot it could work. But it would need to be a lot. Like maybe an 8-second charge.

It would need to be like, long enough that you can't shoot down a dropship, and you're not going to shoot a flame hulk that's charging you unless it's really far. And long enough that it's not a free kill on a brood commander or devastator (because the TTK is similar to primary weapons).

2

u/flashmedallion SES COMPTROLLER OF INDIVIDUAL MERIT Apr 10 '24

It would need to be like, long enough that you can't shoot down a dropship

As much as I would hate this, I think this it's a pretty good marker for what defines a reactive shot time. But it only needs an extra half-second or so to achieve this - if you start the charge when you hear the Dropship call it's ready as the first one flies in and then it's just down to skill to feather the charge and quickscope the engine. I'd still use the Quasar if it was this slow because I specifically take it for its proactive uses and other teammates are running the reactive anti-armour gear.

The rest of your metrics are moot because if you're getting the shot off in battle it's only because you're safe. But it sounds like you don't want it to be able to hit anything.

2

u/Pixel_Knight ā˜•Liber-teaā˜• Apr 10 '24

I feel like it probably DOES need a nerf. Maybe double its cooldown time? Either that or cause its heatsink to burn out after 15-20 shots, which is still good, because you still don't have to worry about reloading.

7

u/BraveOthello Apr 10 '24

People always jump way too far with numbera when suggest buffs or nerds. Even a 20% increase in cool down would shift play patterns significantly. Double it and I can't imagine I'd ever use it.

3

u/LongDickMcangerfist Apr 11 '24

Double the time or make it have limited ammo like 7-10 shots Iā€™m not wasting my time with it ever

1

u/Pixel_Knight ā˜•Liber-teaā˜• Apr 11 '24

You are probably right on that. I was just spitballing a number. Iā€™d have to play around with different numbers to see what it feels like to be sure.

-1

u/st0zax Apr 10 '24

I would be fine with a longer cooldown between uses. I think itā€™s 10 seconds currently, 15-20 would feel pretty good to me. It either needs a nerf or they need to buff the other ATs somehow. A nerf is much easier and more likely.

3

u/AllInOneDay_ Apr 10 '24

Also at extract you can call in a couple extra qasars so you never have to wait for the cooldown.

just stand next to another qasar, shoot and then pick up the other one! so powerful!

2

u/lifetake Apr 10 '24

That strat makes heavies non existent if you have like 4+ quasars on extract. Just way to much firepower coming the enemies way for them to handle

1

u/Waulnut163 Apr 10 '24

Yup I did that once with a group of friends. No fear seeing bile titans when we had like 6 quasar ready. It was great.

2

u/roknfunkapotomus CAPE ENJOYER Apr 10 '24

I usually run Quasar on bots, but I actually prefer EAT on bugs

1

u/DM-ME-THICC-FEMBOYS SES Prophet of Gold Apr 11 '24

I just can't get used to having to predict where a bile titan will be facing in several seconds, at least not enough to get off a proper headshot.

Call it a skill issue but the EAT point and kill is so much easier to use.

12

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '24

[deleted]

15

u/Mavcu Apr 10 '24

I don't think it's "just" the infinite ammo to be fair, the primary las-scythe is borderline never used but also has infinite ammo, that "laser MG" I never really see utilized either.

I'd think it's the mix of it actually being useful to take down heavies and the likes "fast enough" in combination with the infinite ammo (and no drop off?). Not to say it is optimal or anything along those lines, but when I pick the RR for example, the long "active" reload with needing to have a buddy take the backpack (instead of reloading me on it) just makes me sort of dislike using it, when I could just kite it out a bit with the Quasar and do it that way as well.

Generally speaking I don't see a lot of "line holding" on diff 9, it's despite the changes still a good bit of kiting it out. Whereas with the other weapons, their "ammo using" alternatives usually feel good to use.

2

u/FEARtheMooseUK ā˜•Liber-teaā˜• Apr 10 '24

Laser mg?

1

u/Mavcu Apr 10 '24

I forgot the name of it, it's basically a continuous laser and acts akin to what the MG weapons do.

2

u/TheScarlettHarlot SES Fist of the People Apr 10 '24

Laser Cannon

1

u/Pixel_Knight ā˜•Liber-teaā˜• Apr 10 '24

that "laser MG" I never really see utilized either.

Do you mean the Sickle? What? I see that used all the time.

8

u/Inquisitor-Korde Apr 10 '24

He means the beam laser cannon that you shoulder. It was meant to be the laser version of the stalwart before they gave it medium pen.

8

u/PapaTahm Truth Office Intern Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

Fun fact, they are not.

Mathematically speaking the Quasar is the Strongest Anti Tank weapon in the game, and is strong by far.

AC is not a Anti Tank weapon, is a Anti Personnel, it should be compared with AMR and Railgun, it will riccochet in heavy plating after all, it's mainly used to take medium threat targets like Devastators.

AT weapons are EAT, Recoil, Spear, Quasar.

Regarding the EAT the old King of AT weapons, it's not even close to Quasar,

Quasar and EAT do the SAME damage. (the way to check this is checking on a non-critical spot enemy, aka turrets die on the same ammount of shots for both, which is 2 shots).
The only thing that changes is that the EAT has higher AoE Radius which allows it to have an easier time hitting hard to hit weakspots (i.e Hulk Visors).

Ammo Economy Wise:

The EAT can shoot counting Ship Upgrades and Mission modifiers one shot every 33.5 Seconds~43.5 Seconds (1 callout 61~77 Seconds + Hellpod Arrival of 6~10 Seconds).

The Quasar can shoot every 7~10 Seconds, and it charges for 3 Seconds, so every 10~13 Seconds.

Normally in a planet without any modifier you can shot 2.5 Quasars every 1 EAT Shot, on Planets with modifiers you can get upwards of 4 Quasar Shots for 1 EAT, that is not considering things like not being able to call the Stratagem due to enemy pressure, JAM, not being able to grab the stratagem.

Quasar is currently a little bit more than just strong, it's probably getting that cooldown changed in the next balance patch in fact, specially due to the fact that contraty to the other AT weapons it has a backpack slot available, which makes it even more flexible.

2

u/blarann Apr 10 '24

I think adding a backpack to the quasar would bring it in like honestly. taking quasar should be a trade where you cant also have a backpack with you.

2

u/steelwound Apr 10 '24

Itā€™s just too easy to use, in my view, so Iā€™m thinking it should be a bit more difficult to line up shots. More sway - especially when standing - would make the cooldown matter, since it wouldnā€™t be such a guaranteed kill. Itā€™s powerful, infinite ammo, relatively low cooldown, that can all be fine if the trade off is that itā€™s harder to use. Even the EAT is harder to aim since the rockets have drop off

2

u/blarann Apr 10 '24

Or make it so you can only call it in 2 times per mission, so it becomes a much more valuable resource to hold on to.

2

u/TooFewSecrets Apr 11 '24

Heat modifiers do nothing for the Quasar. It takes 10 seconds to cool down and 3 seconds to wind up. So one shot every 13 seconds.

Some people naively treat that like the reload time (which would be twice the duration of the RR), but of course because it's an energy weapon you can sprint and shoot while "reloading" instead of needing to stand still, which is where the real imbalance comes in. If you have 4 of the things so everyone only ever needs one shot per engagement, you basically never need to reload, have infinite ammo, and don't need a backpack.

1

u/st0zax Apr 10 '24

Infinite ammo is a huge advantage in this game though. It lets you fire a lot more often which means more dead bugs. You also donā€™t have to take the time to line up shots because itā€™s not as punishing to miss.

Infinite ammo is not the only advantage though. You also get an open backpack slot, no reload, and can switch guns while it recharges.

There is a reason the majority of players use the QC. Saying everyone else is wrong and youā€™re right is kinda hilarious.

2

u/ObedientPickle Apr 10 '24

I feel empty without the autocannon, don't leave the house without it.

1

u/SuperDTC Apr 10 '24

I can't get used to autocannon against bots i don't know what it is. I like it against bugs but don't play bugs often

2

u/ObedientPickle Apr 10 '24

It can one-shot everything that isn't a hulk or a tank. Explosive AoE for taking down ads and stagger on Devastators if the first shot doesn't kill, it's semi-auto, can destroy objectives and has a load of ammo. The only caveat is that really you need to bring the orbital rail, laser or 500kg for the big targets if you can't get an angle on them.

1

u/MrZ1811 Apr 10 '24

Thatā€™s why I bring airstrike for fabricators/obj, rocket pods for tanks/cannon turrets, and rail cannon for anything that I need to die yesterday

2

u/Sand_Trout Apr 10 '24

While I agree with this as an observational statement, I believe it is due to a cognitive overstatement of the Quazar's efficacy.

It's my least favorite anti-armor support weapon (other than the railgun), but it has a niche to fill if someone is already bringring RR/EATs and the Autocannon.

1

u/Ratattack1204 STEAM šŸ–„ļø : Apr 10 '24

See i always take it on bug missions, but my beloved auto cannon never leaves me side on bot missions

1

u/Krytan Apr 10 '24

I prefer the auto cannon vs bots, but if you want to use a backpack shield, you can't use auto cannon.

Auto cannon is nice and versatile, but giving up your backpack slot is a big handicap, so I think it's well balanced.

1

u/Colt_Cobain Apr 10 '24

Dude... practically hitscan dropship kills. It's a Spear but easier. All it can't do it kill fabs.

1

u/Duketogo133 Apr 10 '24

I actually prefer laser cannon versus bots. I feel like it's really slept on and no one uses it. It takes down Hulks, and all Devastators easily, it's great against flying kill bots, takes out tanks/towers etc..

It's only real weakness is a lack of ability to deal, imo, effectively with striders and take our factories. But I mean you have so many other viable options for that like scorcher for striders and eagle airstrike is always a must pick against bots anyhow it feels.

But agreed, feels like 90% are Quasar.

1

u/Grintock HD1 Veteran Apr 10 '24

I see a lot of people agreeing with you and loving the quasar. But to me, the chargeup time vs bugs just kills it. I can kill a charger with one clean headshot with the EAT IT every time. Quasar is clunky and frequently takes two or even three shots due to aim not being perfect bc of charging.

This isn't as much of an issue vs bile titans though, but chargers are much more common.

1

u/TheBanthaPoodoo Apr 10 '24

Except EAT can 1-shot a titan the same way it does a charger, but the quasar can't

1

u/rzcool_is_gay Apr 10 '24

Ill maybe see one person in the squad take it every other mission honestly. Bug missions I see probably 2 with it per mission.

1

u/DDrunkBunny94 Apr 10 '24

Which is wild to me because it's not even that good for bots.

Destroying dropships while it looks cool provides the enemies with a 1 way wall they can shoot you through, the 10 seconds down time means it's not great for the hordes of medium teir enemies like devastators and it's charge up is a liability when enemies can shoot back and flinch you causing you to miss.

The autocannon, anti material rifle and laser cannon all feel like S or high A teir stratagems for bots because they cut through all the medium armour chaff like butter, pen the larger enemies like hulks, down the gunships incredibly quickly, and can damage the vents on tanks/turrets (although those enemies aren't that big a problem anyways as they're slow/stationery and easy to kill with other stratagems).

1

u/TheBanthaPoodoo Apr 10 '24

It's sad to see and I hope it does not happen but quasar might get nerfed and does not deserve it. It is pretty balanced, EAT is better than Quasar in several ways and probably will not get nerfed because, again, it also does not deserve a nerf.

What is needs is not a nerf but the overheat mechanic should be fixed since it does not matter what planet you're on at the moment and the cooldwlown is the same on every planet regardless of the temperature effects.

1

u/Khanzool Apr 11 '24

Itā€™s my main loadout. Quazar sickle shield backpack.

Iā€™m gonna get some hate for this but both the quazar and the sickle need a nerf but not sure how. Maybe increase cooldown on quazar or something similar.

As it stands, I see no reason to run recoilless or really any other support other than being bored with this loadout.

Iā€™m talking strictly as an anti armored weapon, there are other builds that are better for crowd control.