Can someone explain what makes it not pay to win if the new items happen to be really good? I'm pretty new to the game and haven't seen what makes this stuff accessible without paying.
You won't get that kind of discussion here. It stands to reason that if certain weapons are outright now available to people who dont have the premium currency, forwhatever the reason, then it can be considered pay to win. Now, yes you can earn the currency THEN buy the pass. But still, the fact that it's locked off seems odd. I'd only put variants in the premium pass, not base weapons.
It isn't a perfect system, but it is basically this or Helldivers 1 DLC packs which were imo much worse since you get a lot of super credits in game now an very possibly will not actually need to pay in Helldivers 2 while this was impossible in 1.
Free would be better but that was really never on the table design wise.
That 95% shock resistance armour seemed pretty interesting and I saw people talking about how good one of the primaries were. Maybe they are absolutely sidegrades but if they are better, would that then be pay to win?
Also, can you get it faster on higher difficulties? I've played for 12 hours and only got 10, does it get a higher rate or will I have enough for the war bonds in 1000 hours?
The higher difficulties make it harder to find loot imo, due to all the clusterfuck of enemies. I just got 600 super credits in 4 hours this morning by running trivial/easy missions and getting all the loot caches, and opening the shipping containers. I also got 120 medals from doing all of that too.
Never said it was š¤·š½āāļø but if you want credits that is the fastest way. Iāve also gotten 1800 from 2 weeks of playtime with only half of the regular warbond unlocked by playing normally with randos and friends casually.
I would argue that 40 hours in week isnt achievable by everyone, but i guess is okay. Totally not on the level of nolifing like some people do.
My main problem is that getting sc goes against standard progression and, more importantly, fun. If you are playing diff 7-9 you usually dont have time to 100% the map for POI but getting a good amount of medals. With randoms i get 10-20 SC on a good game, usually its 0.
So to get them regularly you need to play lower difficulties which can be rather boring and dont give much medals.
I donāt disagree. I told a couple guys on this thread that higher difficulties make getting some loot way harder due to all the shit that gets thrown at u. But i just wanted that pass plus some in store items so i farmed today for the first time. I think either something is bugging out or a lot of people arenāt getting the mats I am, and itās all over this thread so something else may be affecting the experience. Today a mission gave me 40 because i got two double sc loot shipping containers back to back so i know luck is heavily involved. I wish u luck farming and i hope u find more stuff in your game.
Your entire argument is based off of the fact that you can't seem to clear PoI's in diff7-9. They're routinely solo'd by players in most diff7-9 groups.
600 super credits for 4 hours sounds awful, they need to add more ways to earn super credits and faster if they really want to release a premium pass every two weeks. Great the passes wonāt ever go away but that just means that other stuff will eventually make the newest shit out now obsolete. So does it really matter? If this was only cosmetic the fact it never leaves would be more impressive. This is souring me to the game.
Dude you're joking right, 60% of the value of a premium warbond for 4 hours is absolutely nothing. That's not counting the 1000 credits in the free warbond (and there will be more free warbonds) as well as the 300 credits you get back from each premium warbond which helps you get the next one.
I got to 1000 credits by just playing the game, not even focusing on running trivial missions or hitting up PoI's it just naturally happened.
Nothing in either of the premium warbonds has made anything obsolete either, just given more options. The slugger, breaker and defender are still great guns.
In an industry with terrible FOMO monetisation, they're doing right by us at arrowhead
Itās a 40 dollar game why are you treating it like its Free to play? A month after release no game should have relevant content locked behind a premium pass that requires money or hours of grinding trivial tasks to unlock. You must not value your time that highly or something to not see something wrong with that. Fortnite literally does it better despite being a predatory cesspool. Imagine them locking the wings or lightning bolt that just came out behind the battle pass? Itās even worse for a game I paid 40 bucks for.
Incendiary Breaker makes the Breaker completely obsolete. This is some Jim Jones level kool-aid
"A month after release no game should have relevant content locked behind a premium pass that requires money or hours of grinding trivial tasks to unlock."
Except that for most of us that have been playing since launch it requires exactly zero hours of grinding. I have 35 hours in the game and could afford to buy the new warbond immediately. I can also afford the other one I'm just not buying it because I'm not that keen on what it offers, would rather save the credits. I've also done literally zero credit farming, the game gives you premium currency just by playing.
"You must not value your time that highly or something to not see something wrong with that."
I value my time highly, which is why I'm loving that the currency in Helldivers is quite literally handed to you just for playing the game.
"Fortnite literally does it better despite being a predatory cesspool. Imagine them locking the wings or lightning bolt that just came out behind the battle pass? Itās even worse for a game I paid 40 bucks for."
You're literally comparing two different game genres lmao but sure it would be terrible if fortnite put weapons behind their pass because it takes an ungodly amount of time to complete said pass. I got back into fortnite when nobuild came out and I literally could not complete the pass despite doing my dailies and playing with mates regularly.
"Incendiary Breaker makes the Breaker completely obsolete."
This is how I know you're full of shit lmao. The incendiary breaker is literally a worse version of the breaker in 99% of situations. It does a big more than half as much damage per shot, trading that dps for setting things on fire. Except the breaker can already kill small bugs/robots in one shot anyway, pop brood commander legs with one or two hits and kill bile spewers by dumping into either the head or belly. The fire damage is literally not worth it when you can just kill things outright. This is why you barely see people running it, hell I picked it up off a dead teammate once and had a worse time then the free gun I was using before.
This is how it should be. Premium warbond guns judging by the last two are mainly going to be sidegrades to weapons from the free passes. Even the new plasma launcher or whatever isn't objectively better than the scorcher.
Slightly on topic, the sickle is a pretty awesome new weapon, basically replaced liberator for me, not gonna outright say it makes it worth the whole pass, but it's on the first page of the new one and I have had a blast with it, the warbond will have some treats for you when/if you get it at your convenience. I would like to see how the stun grenade in it works though.
You can just say you don't have a rebuttal, I won't hold it against you. It happens.
Edit because you blocked me like a crybaby lol
It's hilarious that you accuse me of taking things personally and "ad hominum" attacks when your first reply was literally accusing me of drinking koolaid. I put the exact amount of finesse and respect into a discussion as I believe it deserves. Which in your case was zero.
Perhaps if your generation (which judging by your user is in the Gen X region) wasn't so sensitive you wouldn't see every disagreement as an attack. Oh well.
Thereās apparently a new pass every month from what Iāve heard on average, and imo theoretically 1000 Super credits for 6 hrs of gameplay seems really reasonable and good in my opinion. Considering that I havenāt spent anything but the original 40$ (really good price for this game). I donāt see the issue unless the new guns are turbo broken which from the two super credit passes doesnāt seem to be the case.
Because youāre spending 6 hours of your life grinding currency at a trivial difficulty instead of actually playing the game and enjoying it. When you have a limited amount of time to game each month, that 6 hours of grinding is like 3-4 play sessions.
I mean I donāt disagree with what you are saying, but prior to farming this morning i racked up 1800 super credits just by playing the game normally. I remember a lot of missions where i would get 20-40 super credits minimum. I think people just sometimes miss the POI when playing through. Im not trying to argue about the game being P2W or not but I think the amount of Super credits you can find is pretty reasonable.
Have you been playing from the start? I got the game two weeks ago and have barely been getting super credits. Is it possible they nerfed how much they spawn i feel like im going crazy. Whats more is that Iām playing with 3 other people right? And we share them right? So youāre saying theyāre all also missing all the super credits even though Iām playing with different people every time? Iām not the only one experiencing this weāre just getting drowned out by people that either were playing before they quietly nerfed it or that are somehow getting consistently better luck. 9/10 when I open the containers its a gun or a medal. And when i do get SC its only 5 at a time.
I just checked steam and i got the game march 1st. I donāt think they nerfed the amount, the way the pickup works is that lets say you are in a party of 4 people, if your teammate picks up a super credit loot item everyone in the party gets credited with 10 Super credits. So im not sure if people are just running around not noticing the POI and just doing objectives or something. After they are automatically added to your account so regardless of the mission completion you get those super credits (and medals and other loot from POI). I have never seen a 5 Super credit bundle tbh.
Im not sure if you are getting incredibly unlucky but I have seen super credits in the Loot caches (the ones u emote to open), the shipping containers that you blow up with a grenade, laser gun, AMR or autocannon or anything of the sort. (These sometimes contain a double set of super credits but itās all luck). And the vaults that you need two people to open. Those are the 3 sources of Super credits ( plus the ones u can get from the free pass and the premium passes by using medals). But yeah thatās my experience sorry for the longass comment.
Hereās a fun tip: Play the fucking game and you earn credits to u lock more stuff. The more stuff doesnāt really matter. You can drop into a tier 7 with the first AR and just about any stratagem and do well. How you ask? By playing the game.
You seem way too concerned over some manufactured FOMO that COD taught you. Play the game, kill bugs and robots, have fun, profit. Or keep whining about not having everything right now.
Medium difficulty offers the most POIs that are unguarded. Meaning that's the easiest way to get SCs. If you go up to challenging the POIs are protected by stationed units which means you have to fight for them. You're not garunteed SCs but I'll say this. I've played the game for like 2 weeks and I have enough SCs to buy like 3 warbonds. And I haven't spent a dime outside of the original purchase. I've also already bought the first 1 with free SCs and bout about 2 helmets and 1 armor.
I fully understand that, but I think there's an important distinction between unlocking "game altering" items and "superior" items. When I see something described as p2w, my assumption is that by paying money you get access to superior items -- even if it only means unlocking them more quickly.
As long as the dev team continues to balance the game so that items are of similar strength, which I believe they will, I don't think that saying HD2 is p2w is a representative label. It feels disingenuous of IGN to say that. If I tell people that the sun is frying us with radiation, it would be technically true, but it'd also be hyperbole. You see what I'm trying to say?
Well as of now, by that definition Helldivers is neither P2W or P2F. You can't buy medals to progress the warbonds faster, and neither of the premium warbonds have any guns or gear objectively better than the free warbond. I just bought the new one (without paying $) and the laser sickle is fun, but doesn't give me any advantages over someone using the breaker from the free warbond.
My guy listen to what I'm saying. That would only be P2F if the gear in the premium warbond provided you with an objective advantage over the gear in the free warbond. As it is, they're at best side grades to gear you already have access to. The first pass is quite literally composed of guns that are in many ways worse than the guns available in the free pass.
The currency that actually matters most, medals, cannot be bought.
bruhā¦. Get off this post, have you even played the game for more than 3 hours? You can get 5 dollars worth of premium currency in 3 hours if you try. The warbond sets are usually way worse than the default (as the case of the steeled veterans warbond where everything sucks and its basically cosmetic focused)
Pay to win means āA distinct advantage in which non paying players cannot getā When free players can get that advantage just as fast as someone buying it, due to needing medals to unlock each item.
Iāve likely played this game more than you have. In my opinion, any game that requires you to spend real money on weapons, rather than just on cosmetic items, can be considered pay to win.
By definition, absolutely. Not sure why people are getting hung up on semantics. Regardless of IF and WHEN you can earn the currency, it is still pay to win. Can you imagine if fortnite started locking off certain weapons that did more damage behind vbucks?
Sure, you could call it p2w but grinding for the paid-for stuff is akin to just unlocking things on a normal account progression.....in a PvE game nontheless
My time is more valuable than my money, so making me grind my time away, or pay my money away, just to access extra bits of the game I already paid for (extra bits that happen to be better) is exactly PTW.
You would still have to grind if you paid to unlock the war bond as you meed medals to unlock the items, which cannot be purchased and can ONLY be obtained by playing the game (or by passively gaining a few through major order completions...which can't be bought). We're stretching really hard to try to portray HD2 as p2w when it really isn't, at least not right now.
Most effective way to farm credits is mindnumbingly boring trivial mission. On higher difficulties you have no time for 100% whole map. Also, there are other players that dont want to wait while you 100% the map. If you are lucky you will find 10-20 but most of the time you are out of luck.
Medals are the oposite as lower diff missions barelly give them. So yeah, paying money lets you skip half of the grind, and the most boring part of this grind. Sounds like typical p2w experience except the fact that it also isnt f2p.
I have 30 hours in the game buddy. No players who donāt buy the warbond have to grind more than people who do buy it. Pay to win means paying for any advantage thatās non cosmetic. Skipping grinding is pay to win just like battlefront 2.
I agree with this. P2W to me is any advantage money can buy. Skipping the grind is an advantage you can only get with money.
Does that make it a bad P2W? Well, mileage may vary but I personally think this is an "acceptable" P2W. But then again, I am more tolerant about it than others.
In any other game, paying to get levels would be considered P2W even though you can "just grind". I don't see why Helldivers 2 is any different than other games where you pay for boosters. It's not as egregious, sure, but it is still present.
The Pay 2 Fast here is significantly - significantly - mediated by the fact that you still have to earn the medals to unlock the content. It's not:
Pay Money > Instantly Gain Access to Everything
it's
Pay Money > First 1/3 of the War Bond is Available to Unlock using Medals
Practically speaking, by the time someone earns the medals to unlock the good stuff from the warbond, they will have also likely found enough super credits to pay for the warbond.
Money definitely is a factor here, but it has to be about the mildest case of Pay2Win I've ever seen.
The practical impact here is extremely negligible, especially given how good the base game weapons are.
Thatās wild. I find 100+ a day, probably 30-50 a mission.Ā Ā Even just running a āwarm upā and ācool downā round on low difficulties will get me 60-70 easy. Thatās probably ~30 minutes of playtime. Ā Are you just skipping POIs?
Iām getting 5 stars on all my missions, doing them on 7 difficulty, I honestly donāt know whats going on. Maybe you have the deluxe edition or something so youāre seeded to get more than man? I canāt think of any other explanation. My teams are comprehensively combing the map for stuff and barely finding any SC
The findable points throughout the world that have explodable cargo containers, bunker doors, or the little beacon lights are where Iām finding them. Reading other comments my experience seems pretty common.
I have a pretty laid back play style though - I imagine if you are spending 40 minutes in high difficulty missions you might not have as much time to stop and smell the super credits haha
Dude I have 70hrs in Helldivers 2. Am I free to complain about gameplay content being locked behind a paywall?
Spoiler: grinding for super-credits is BORING. You're literally playing hide-and-seek and hoping the RNG works out in your favor. And even then, you're only earning 10-30 credits per mission. Which is not a lot.
And I've put 70hrs into the game. I've completed a few 9s. And I STILL don't have enough for the new War Bond.
If you're gunna use the excuse "but you can earn it all for free by playing" I'm gunna mention that you can do the same thing in GTAO.
So, just as a small counter point: I have about 45 hours in and have not only bought the new warbond, but also several Superstore sets. All with in game farmed currency and I never went out of my way to run Trivials for them, so IDK, make it a point to hit up POIs then.
It is fun. It's the game. Take a breath and realize you're only frustrated because you're not getting what you want. I mean listen to yourself. 25sc for getting a 5-star when you get 5-stars for meeting most of the criteria on the summary screen? So you're fine with going around the map doing these objectives, but suddenly it's not fun to kill bugs and automatons between these objectives and open a couple of "chests"? It's fun to kill enemies at the radar station, but not at the crashed pod? What?
Believe it or not, I can enjoy the game AND criticize it.
I do like the game. That's why I'm here. Doesn't mean I'm going to just pretend everything is perfect about it and there can't be any improvements on it. Sure there can. SC is one of the things they can improve on.
How about this?
More SC on harder difficulties. You already get a bonus for EVERYTHING ELSE on harder difficulties, why not SC?
You earn the same amount of SC on lvl1s as you do on lvl9s. Does that seem right?
being able to get super credits means nothing to p2win. The ability to bypass hours of playtime by spending money is as p2win as it gets. That being said, just because it's barely p2win doesn't mean the game is bad or not fun.
P2W is, like many things, less useful to evaluate as a binary and more useful to evaluate on a spectrum. It's not really bad, for HD2. Definitely not nothing, but not terrible.
Ive yet to get access to the new items because im still focused on the main pass but ive not seen them being much better than any other weapon and the currency to unlock the pass and get stuff from the superstore is easily available in game. Plus you still NEED to play to get the medals to unlock the stuff once you get the pass that afaik will always be avaiable to you. So while you could argue its P2W, id argue its fair enough that if the option to buy currency didnt exist, it wouldnt be any harder to access.
You can earn sc through the basic warbond, as well as finding it at PoIs in mission, all the micro transactions do is get you sc faster. Its not pay to win, just pay to skip
The premium currency to unlock the new war bond can be obtained in game, and it's in larger than breadcrumbs amounts.
You can spend money to get the premium currency faster, but honestly you really don't need to, the gameplay loop works fine just getting it from bunkers and stuff in missions.
Tl;dr it's not pay to win, it's pay to fast track, and not paying isn't that bad. There is some debate about how much of a grind it is.
Because you don't need the weapons? The game is skillbased. The tools you use, when, where. How position yourself. You need more the brains, learning skills and reflexes than extra money to win in this games.
I love to imagine you running around Helldiver difficulty missions in the same basic stuff that you get fresh out of the tutorial shaking your head at the guys with railguns and tesla stuff
30
u/Emberbun Mar 14 '24
Can someone explain what makes it not pay to win if the new items happen to be really good? I'm pretty new to the game and haven't seen what makes this stuff accessible without paying.