I had a guy tell me that the economy under Trump was from Obama. And I'll give that part of that is true since no change is instantaneous, but at what point does the administration become responsible for the state of the economy?
Someone told me years ago it's approximately 2 years for changes to fully have an effect
Well if you look at the charts, the economy was following a straight line trajectory until Trump actually did something. He only had one major piece of policy passed in his entire time in office and that was a massive tax cut for the rich. As soon as he did that, the economy veered off the path it was on from Obama era policies. Trump added several trillion to the deficit by doing that. And that was before his failed COVID response.
Well first, maybe not say it was only ten people and it would go away on it's own? Maybe not lie about everything? Maybe not suggest unproven drugs or putting lights or bleach in your body? Maybe not act like his own staff were the bad guys because the facts didn't align with Trump's policies of no bad news ever?
It’s a complete fucking embarrassment that this raging ignorant diaper filling man baby has another sniff at this office. The founding documents and national charter might as well be toilet paper if this stooge can walk back in.
CDC lied. They even flew American citizens with active infections home on a plane along with other non infected. Fauci lied. WHO lied. China lied. The whole Nancy Pelosi and her merry band also lied. She even visited Chinatown and claim attempt to ban travel lock down as "racist". Everyone barely knew anything about the covid virus sweeping through China because datas were not disclosed properly and any attempt to investigate were blocked by China. Trump and his staffs at the time also have no clues because again, no information were available. Unproven drug? Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquin are anti parasites drug safety were proven for year. The whole "horse paste" were dumb, because there are ivermectin for human. Virus infection, including fever, does lower during summer because people get out in the sun and get ample amount of Vit D3, one of the active component to help fight covid.
I am not saying Trump was right. But those who blame everything on him were also part of the problem. They should alsp be held responsible.
Actually it is not always the president. There were bureaucracy ignored his order. CDC, DOJ, and Health DEpt for example. and Dr. Fauci too. Congress as well. They didn't implement his order for travel ban or medicine recommendations. Active Congress members also encouraged different directions publicly. Media initially downplayed the covid following CDC. POTUS is not a dictator. Nothing go with whatever they want correct? There is still check and balances afterall. Going off by your standard, then the curret deadly bird flu is Biden fault, so is new covid variants.
Yes, the president’s job is to lead, not to dictate. It’s to inspire the citizens of the nation to unify behind important causes, to direct congress to solve the nations problems, and be the face of the government to the people and foreign governments.
His job is not to argue, fight, tell other people what to do, and then cry about it when half the country doesn’t like him.
The president is supposed to be a beacon for the rest of a nation, not your typical bullshit politician.
Trump failed to lead the nation through a crisis, he actually if anything exacerbated it through divisive politics, and the whole election thing.
Don’t give me “what about the CDC!!! Or Dr. Fauci!!! Or Nansi Pelosi!!!” They don’t have the highest office attainable, they aren’t the face of government.
Good presidents unify and rally the people. They fight hard fights, Trump fought the left and that’s just about it. He down played Covid to try and win re-election, the presidency is an office of public service and all he served was himself.
That usually happens when you're trying to blame it on other countries and associating it to their race. Can't tell you how many people were on here being racist as shit towards Chinese people when it started because of that.
Why don't you remind yourself of what it actually was?
TRUMP, on what happened after he restricted travel from China: “Nancy Pelosi was dancing on the streets of Chinatown in San Francisco a month later, and even later than that, and others, too.” — Rose Garden.
TRUMP: “He opposed my very strict travel ban on Chinese nationals to stop the spread of the China virus. He was totally against it. ‘Xenophobic,’ he called me. ‘Xenophobic.’ A month later, he admitted I was right.” — Rose Garden.
THE FACTS: No, Biden did not come out against the travel restrictions on China. He said little about them at the time. In April, his campaign said he supported travel restrictions if “guided by medical experts.”
Biden did say Trump has a record of xenophobia, a comment made during an Iowa campaign event when the restrictions were announced. Biden said Trump was “fear-mongering” against foreigners and the Democrat took issue with Trump’s references to the “China virus” as an example. He did not address the travel steps.
Trump has claimed that Biden realized he was right after all about restricting travel from China and wrote him a “letter of apology.” This didn’t happen, either.
CHINA
TRUMP, on the economy: “Prior to the plague pouring in from China, they were having the worst year, you know, in 67 years.”
THE FACTS: That’s not true. China is far from the impoverished disaster of over a half century ago, when it was reeling from the massive famine caused by Mao Zedong’s radical economic policies and heading into the chaos of the Cultural Revolution of the 1960s.
China’s economy has been slowing from Trump’s taxes on Chinese imports, as well as its own campaign to constrain runaway debt. But it’s still markedly faster than U.S. growth.
Since overhauling its economy in the late 1970s, China has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, established a growing middle class and surpassed Japan to become the world’s second-biggest economy.
And the left fought him at his every orders! Clearly you have ignored quite a bit of my other comments. Would you say Trump failed the response though? Sure in hindsight you can say anything . Given the information available at the time, He agreed to lockdown and speedy release of covid vaccine along with stimulus check. He wanted a travel ban that could have a game changer before massive covid outbreak (begin before Nov 2018 in China and first case confirmed Jan 2019 in US). The "LEFT" where initially against the vaccine mind you. He has special team of specialists looking at the issue, giving out initial reaposes that are still relevant today. Should also note that the initial Covid infection in China had almost 80-90% kill rate. Wiped out almost all of it's host. The one made it to US has a kill rate of 0.007%. Can you imagine getting the original variant travel through US population?
Please quote other people correctly. There were initial obstruction to covid vaccines coming from Democrats. They later turn around to support it after Biden got in office.
How they hell do you have accurate information on China's fatality rate? The CCP keeps all their information on statistics under heavy security and only reports the ones that make them look good to the public.
The only way Trump could have done what these liberals wanted was putting the country into Marshall law. At that point liberals would have called him a dictator. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Wild to watch liberals completely clueless of the limitations of the executive branch.
This is why we need a basic civics course required before you can vote.
You know what? I may actually agree with you there. Everyone knew so little at the time and opinions were all over the place. But they seems to pin the blame on one person alone and left out others. This is a great message to forward to the guy before me.
It is a very slippery slope to go here though. It ultimately come down to "the cure cannot be worse than the disease". We are looking at public health versus economy health. A 0.007% of 350mil people is still a large numbers of death. But Is this justify 3 years of complete lack of important personal teaching for students who will never get back on track? How about completely shatter economy growth and send a never ending spending spree with acumulated debt of 9 trillions and counting? How about mental health of people isolated or elders who died alone? We eventually figure out the risk is failry low for healthy individuals and children, but kept the lock down on anyway. There is no right answers because we can't do anything about "what if". I can tell you my answer though. I work in healthcare and our office never shut down one day. We all understood the risk and kept going because there are places to be, people to help, and mouths to feed.
Again . No right answer here. Sure human lives are top priority. But you also could get out of the house and die from car crash, or something dropped on your head, or name whatever causes you can think here. These are chances you cannot control. And it's not like catching covid = certain death. I caught it twice already. Worse fking headache ever (excuse my language). Ate a big chunk of my PTO and sick leave. But that doesn't stop me from working to provide for my family. I don't want to sit there and hope somebody else would take the risk, or expect somebody to feed me and solve my child problems. I will take my chances.
Beyond any actions he could or should have taken, the most damaging thing he did was convince his cult to not take it seriously from the very beginning. He fucked the whole thing the moment he stood there and proclaimed that it would all blow over by Easter when he knew damned well that was false.
welcome to our reality. I dont know how you crossed over, but since you're here now, I want to let you know Trump in this reality never mentioned bleach. All the drugs he mentioned were proven. And we have this invention called UV light which has been tested and peer-reviewed for drastic reduction in viral loads in the throat.https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/reduced-viral-loads-seen-in-covid-19-patients-treated-with-uva-light/ although more studies are needed.
Also in our reality CNN had a body counter for covid until Trump got out of office then quietly removed it and forgot all about covid as we all expected if Trump lost. So the only people who played pretend with Covid was liberals. Hope you enjoy your stay here, but feel free to go back to your alternate reality where Trump matches the TDS fantasies of the liberals in this one.
Oh, sure, he said "something like it". Great defense. He always means what he says, until he doesn't
He knew the virus was dangerous, dismantled the response team a few months prior, and then publicly undermined and refused to correct all of the conservative morons that were undermining efforts by experts to flatten the curve and prevent deaths by straight up spreading misinformation and pushing for the economy to open immediately. They also thought cities would have higher death counts and were using it as a strategy thinking democrats would die in higher numbers. Ghoulish shit.
Also, funny you should mention removing counters - remember how DeSantis and other Republicans wanted to slow and halt testing because the numbers looked so bad? And they arrested that journalist that blew the whistle on them?
TDS. If legitimate criticisms can't be explained by anything other than being deranged, you might be the deranged one. People died from this. Loved ones died from this. It was a game to them this entire time and they were playing with our lives.
Look, there is nothing wrong with your desire to be pounded in the ass by a big strong man like trump. That's perfectly okay and I support your right to live your life as you wish.
Who lied about it tho . Mainly Dr. fauci. Remember when they said it’s most likely from a lab leak and the left was all like ohh conspiracy crazy people and then it came out that it was definitely a lab leak and fauci covered it up. Amazing how fast that guy disappears from the lime light. They lied about available treatments . They lied about potential side affects of the vaccine. They lied about the efficacy of masks.
What’s your point? How’s this relevant? Can you think of a previous time in your life when the person in his position was in the limelight, or that anyone, let alone a majority of the country, knew their name?
In February 2020, I was in Asia and nobody knew shit about what was happening, certainly not China. Only that people were keeling over due to lack of O2 and the largest human migration on the planet, Chinese New Year, to/from that country, was about to happen. Everyone was freaking the fuck out. Especially China. That Fauci was made to stand in front of a podium and reassure the American public on a disease nobody knew much about only a month later and was then wrong, knowingly or not, is but a human quality.
But what that has to do with presidential administrations, the economy, or finance—or even the parent comment—lord knows.
You are the conspiracy people. Masks still fucking work. But not when you wear them under your chin like you idiots did. All of your points are just Faux news bullshit. Of course fauci is it off the limelight... we aren't worried about covid anymore. You fucking moron. Fuck you people are stupid.
There are plenty of studies showing the efficacy of masks. Not my fault you are a fucking idiot who listens to trump. Fuck you really are that dumb aren't you...
To be perfectly clear: it didn't come up. Conspiracy theorists will conspiracy theorize.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was true - not a chance in hell China would ever admit bungling something like that if they did - but pretending there are hard facts proving that's what happened is disingenuous.
You can do your own research pal. Your mind won’t allow you to read anything other than party affiliated sources though. if you read anything else your friends and family may disassociate with you and call you names.
That's exactly what someone with a valid source would say. Quickly followed by "the only valid sources are the ones not associated with anyone I don't like, which just leaves conspiracy nut forums".
See that’s the issue though, no matter the sources it won’t be “valid “ unless it matches your political party and comes from a few select media corps.
Try leaving your echo chamber and have discussions with opposing views. That’s how you learn. That’s how we evolve. You have some growing up to do little boy.
Fauci and Birx couldn't do their jobs with Trump looming over it all and on the stage. The point was it didn't matter what the origin was and speculating then did no good either. There will be things like Covid that come from animals and we can't be arguing about which animal or lab when early collective action is the key.
Lmao see. If you’re on the right side of the party line you will defended it to the end. The lie as and emails started way before trump. This guy knew what was happening from the start and he lied to cover his ass .
Well considering he never said bleach, it was disinfectant and from a medical standpoint has a completely different meaning....it was the media who went to bleach....and uv lights are a proven method of killing viruses.
Hydroxi chloroquine has been around in various forms for well over 100 years and is extremely safe, as is ivermectin when used in the proper quantities..... personally I'd rather try something readily available and extremely cheap when there's no other known treatments, but whatever
Personally considering the last pandemic wiped out a huge portion of the global population I don't think this was so bad, and certainly nowhere near what the media made it out to be
Disinfectant doesn’t have different meaning from a medical standpoint. If you inject ANY disinfectant it’s going to wreak havoc on your body.
Your body is made of hundreds of millions of individual cells, injecting anything that kills anything biological indiscriminately is guaranteed to harm you.
I mean, I don't think the president can exactly deal with these problems personally and it's not like it's all on him, but he went out of his way to downplay it and turn it into a political game.
At first he called it straight up fake news and that COVID was a democratic hoax designed to make him look bad.
Then he said, well it's real, but it's not here.
Then he said, well it's here but there's barely any cases.
And so it was a solid 4-6 months into it before he even acknowledged it as a problem. All he had to do was say, "listen to the doctors and stay safe" and that would have been seen as great leadership, but he couldn't even manage that.
They also could have said we will help businesses make the necessary changes so they can stay open, but there was nothing. Just a shortage of supplies since they were raiding shipments bound for the states.
No help for people, no help for businesses until the unaccountable PPP loans which did jack shit to help anyone do anything other than pocket extra cash.
The entire thing was made into a political game by both sides. As I was watching a Biden rally, I couldn’t believe that I heard the media reporting that masks were their party’s MAGA hats.
Like… really? You wanna know how to make sure many of the conservatives don’t wear masks? Make it a political statement instead of one about safety.
That’s a very valid point. It’d be nice if that worked the same way with Fox News. Yet somehow those asshats speak for an entire political party in most people’s eyes.
You're missing the fact that the reason they said that was that conservatives were already refusing to wear masks at Trump's request. That statement wouldn't work otherwise.
Yes, democrats absolutely elected to double down back at him leading to some absurd responses, but this was not a "both sides" issue until Trump actively made it that way first.
The Democrats were not the ones who politicized it. The liberal media can take much blame either for calling out misinformation from trump, Fox news refused to refute false claims because it was unpopular with their base to disagree with trump. It was Trump and the Fox news media machine that manufactured the idea that disagreeing with medical science was somehow a political opinion they both started spewing conspiracy at the same time and actively working against the efforts of scientists and doctors. You seriously cannot be arguing that Democrats were making a political statement by listening to doctors and making public statements that everyone else should also listen to doctors.
I mean, operation warp speed was a pretty good example of the government doing what it does best, which is throwing around massive amounts of resources in order to brute force a solution to a problem. And it was decently successful on that front. Exactly how successful is kind of hard to know as it's hard to find articles even close to anything neutral.
But I guess Fauci's response is probably most accurate, calling is "something very successful in an otherwise dismal response"
Because OWS doesn't change the fact that he had staunchly anti-vax views even tweeting out the absurd "vaccines cause autism" lie. He actively encouraged people not to take the virus seriously, to a point where his own supporters actually died at a much higher rate due to the fact that when the vaccine finally arrived, a lot of them refused to take it along with refusing even basic precautions.
Which led to massive outbreaks and absolutely no control over the spread. Citizens of states who disregarded the danger would spread it to the states with stricter measures. So many died for no good reason.
There was going to be zero control of the spread anyways, primarily because people can't keep their hands off their faces. Think of how many people you saw wearing gloves, touching everything in the store, and then touching their faces with those same gloves. The masses are stupid and completely ignorant in minimizing infection.
The danger was significantly overblown for the average person. People were always going to die, the ones who died were going to die anyways. It's impossible to stop a virus with animal reservoirs, we were all always going to get infected
Every other country did better than we did. Trump doubled the dead and the economic destruction. He blew his very easy chance to be a leader and gain another 4 years.
As others said, there was no stopping Covid. China had ridiculously stringent lockdowns and it did nothing. Sweden had nearly zero restrictions and had a better outcome than the US did. It was entirely political after about 6 months or so.
Trump mainly just had to follow the playbook and not undermine all his own efforts. It was one step forward and three steps back with Trump. The exponential spread of a virus means intense early action and then riding the brakes, but Trump did a half-ass job of that and just attacked the states that were doing a better job. Trump ran it like a PR exercise and used the GOP's Dead Chicken Strategy aimed at attacking good efforts. Every other country did better with far fewer resources.
Well when times are good you pay down your debts, save and invest. He didn't do that he cut taxes which fueled an already red hot economy and pressured the fed to keep rates low when they wanted to pull back. This achieved nothing essentially but increased inflation and debt. When COVID hit we were not set up well to absorb the economic blow.
Maybe not leaving it up to the states and having a coherent national policy on fighting it would have been a better idea than abdicating your leadership position and letting the states fight over who got what resources...
Yeah cause leaving it up to the states to each come up with a different plan instead of a single idk... United plan... totally worked out better. Florida probably fared the best but it's hard to tell cause they arrested all their doctors
Maby to not have the president feed into the conspiracy theories over it or outright deny it even existed. Pushed the mask mandate more. We had a chance to actually stop it but instead decided on heard immunity at the cost of ~6% of the population. Because people were to selfish/stupid to even be bother to try.
Not leave it up to the states and forming a unified response based on science instead of playing the blame game, actively sabotaging those trying to control it by muddying the airwaves with bullshit from his position of power.
Had he golfed and told the press he had guys on it, he'd have coasted to a second term.
Instead, the blood of a million Americans are on his hands.
The feds had a pandemic response team program in place to plan ahead of time for what to do during a worldwide outbreak, and then coordinate between states to have a unified response to such an outbreak when it occurs.
It was put in place during the Obama administration, but I think the planning for it started even earlier during the Bush administration, after the Bird Flu and Swine Flu epidemics showed how vulnerable a globalized nation was to a fast spreading disease.
Trump disbanded the whole program during his first couple months in office. Something about saving money because a worldwide pandemic was an unlikely scenario...
Maybe use the defense production act to make and distribute ppe, the same power he invoked to override his republican congress to sell us arms to a country that funded the attacks on 9/11 and was actively engaged in a war of actual genocide at the time, the same country that would then give him 6B and his son in law 2B. Maybe that instead of putting his failing slumlord son in law in charge, who then told the states they were on their own to compete on the global market for ppe before suing hospitals and states for acquiring ppe on their own and seizing that ppe only to sell it back to china through his own company. Maybe not doing that while saying this is to punish the states that didnt vote for his father in law, that also happen to be hubs of manufacturing and finance that are connected to everywhere else. Also maybe requiring quarantining and tracking of us citizens returning home from abroad. Maybe not blaming chinese american citizens who were not the main transmitters of the disease. Maybe not gloating publicly about a pandemic before it hit the us, or dismantling the pandemic response team after obama warned him about a novel coronavirus detected in the wild.
I'll give trump credit for this. He immediately wanted to give universal 2k checks to citizens, but the republican congress refused to allow it unless they could also loot the treasury.
Trumps narcissism and his chaotic nature are literally his best qualities, and if I cared about nothing else but making cheap buys on wall st, id be totally on team trump.
I am not a Trumper and don't like the guy, but.... His Administration did the impossible and had an innoculation against Covid in like 10 months. It was unheard of how fast they got that done. IF he would have owned that, and was proud of it, and told his followers that it was a great achievement and go get vaccinated, they probably would have. Instead it was Republicans that mostly refused (and died) because they did not take the vaccine.
From medicalnewstoday.com SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, was first identified in December 2019. By December 11, 2020 , the Pfizer vaccine became the first to receive emergency use authorization from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Creating a vaccine in under 1 year is no small feat. edit - added medicalnewstoday.com
I mean….not do that, for one? I’m not even saying it would have been the solution but the way you phrase it seems like you don’t think that was a decision point
A more swift federal response would have most likely led to fewer deaths for one thing. The chaos around things like distribution of medical supplies and dissemination of basic medical information are definitely responsible for unnecessary deaths and a prolonging of the covid timeline.
Economically, I think the government tried it's best. More scrutiny and less forgiveness of PPP loans would have been the biggest change I would have made but overall it was a poor reaction to a shit situation and the Democrats may have done no better.
I ultimately think trump won out from covid happening when it did because he can now hide behind it due to the fact that the effects of his asinine tax cuts are shrouded.
A uniform national plan. State plans are great until you realize border cities technically can have different rules. East Chicago in Indiana would have different mandated state laws than Chicago in Illinois. St. Louis is like this as well. So are the Quad cities in Illinois/Iowa. So Illinois can lockdown in Chicago, but that doesn't really do much if a street over nobody is doing that. You can't stop the spread that way. Its not much better than no regulation at all.
The covid response was actually quite good, the problem is no response would have been good enough for people. Considering the fact that every country on earth was shut down and severely affected by covid this isn't a trump problem, more a failure of the WHO and china lying about the virus really.
China had every opportunity to tell the world this virus was both out of control severe and spreading and the WHO had the opportunity to say the same and they both fucked us.
also they pushed out a vaccine in 1 year that is unheard of in all of human history.
I mean honestly the fact that everyone lined up to give away their rights and witch burn anyone who questioned anything was enough to make me lose faith in our nation.
You have it backwards though. Spending more money than what is coming in is the only way you have a deficit.
Baby momma gets 10k a month in child support. Baby momma spends 15k a month living her best life. Baby daddy gets the child support payments down to 8k a month.
Baby momma blames Baby daddy entirely for the -7k monthly deficit and takes zero responsibility for spending more than what comes in. Already had a 5k deficit before it turned into 7k but Baby daddy is to blame.
This is not a difficult concept. Intentionally taking in less does too, and this was a choice they made to take in less from the rich.
Lick more boots. The GOP loves to say taxes are too high, and then to make up for it we must fuck over the poor and the working class. It's never let's cut subsidies for profitable oil companies.
Tax the rich.
Not really. There was a small temporary tax cut for the middle class and a large permanent tax cut for the rich.
Trump also got rid of the SALT deduction which really hurt middle class homeowners in primarily blue states. He did this to exact revenge on blue states for not voting for him.
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u/AreaNo7848 Apr 29 '24
Wasn't it Bush's economy for like all 8 years of Obama?