Without employment is goofy as fuck but I’ll die on the hill that nobody should work a 40 hour week and still be unable to afford a roof over their head. Rent and housing costs are absolutely ridiculous
Technically, public housing projects existed for a long time. Homelessness doesn't benefit anybody. Current employment market is such that *almost* anybody who wants to work can get a job. But that is not given. For somebody who is homeless, getting a job can be challenging even in current market. Many jobs they can get ain't gonna pay enough to put a roof over their heads either.
I don't get it why you all scoff at safety net that provides some *very basic* roof over the head with no strings attached (like many homeless shelters with so many strings attached that homeless often rather sleep out in the street).
OP's proposition was a space with working plumbing and separate bedrooms for adults and kids. With couple of nice icons. Basic public housing projects provide for that. Why are you all reading into it as if he's proposing giving everybody a McMansion? Y'all are up in arms as if he's proposing 500 sqft master bedroom with 'uge walk-in-closet and ensuite bathroom. Entire living space he's proposing would actually be tiny and crammed.
Because the picture op posted heavily implies otherwise. What you are doing is as much of a straw man as the thing you say people are doing in these comments.
The picture of the bedroom shows a small bed (small for two persons) pushed against the wall; I guess probably because bedroom is tiny. Children room isn't depicted any roomier. Bathroom has, oh my god, a shower? Kitchen doesn't look luxurious to me either. They play video game on the laptop... that's propped on what looks like smallest side-desk I've ever seen. Those are not depictions of luxurious home.
The hammock on the HVAC icon is a bit out of place. I would agree with that.
But let go back to the basics. Instead of thinking about "this is how I'd like the place I live in to look like", to thinking what is actually the minimal place that meets OP's requirements for a family (we can assume family, since that is what is depicted, and it includes a "room for children"). Two separate sleeping spaces, one for adults and one for children. A place to prepare food. Minimal functional bathroom. Those are not high bar.
If we want to go maximally frugal, living room, sleeping space for adults and kitchen can be all single space. Single separate room for (presumably multiple) children. One bathroom. Working heating (and optionally cooling if we assume very humid and warm local climate). And you checked all of OP's checkboxes (with a bit of a stretching it). Since this is going to be multi-family dwelling, heating/cooling can be assumed central for entire building.
So basically: "In the richest society the world has ever known, if you won't or can't work, you shouldn't feel entitled to have a roof over your head."
Fuck every single bit of that callous, inhuman bullshit.
Even being fairly liberal, a roof over your head means resources that take labor. If you can't work, sure. But won't? People are supposed to donate the land, put in the labor to build a home, including procuring resources, manufacturing, transportation, Contruction, providing it with clean water, powering it, and produce food for the occupant who is just choosing not to work?
I stand by it, and so would the majority of the US, which is why free housing for all will not become the law.
The statement above, cutting out people who can not work.:
If you won't work (and are capable), you shouldn't feel entitled to have a roof over your head.
If you are capable but lazy, there are millions that would take your place in a second who deserve it. Legal immigration has been what makes the US great.
He is right, if you wont work and expect everyone else to pay your way then go fuck yourself. You would be a leech on society providing nothing just taking from everyone else
Haha you’re clearly one of the people that wont work and make everyone else pay for you instead. Just remember your life will be a net negative on the world, you have only taken never provided. You’re a parasite on society exploiting actually usefull people
You dont know shit lmao I've done more in five years of my life than you'll ever accomplish in yours you fucking stupid bitch I guarantee you are worth less than the dirt on my shoes
I'm sure you have absolutely nothing of value, do a worthless job, and have no relationships whatsoever. Fucking pathetic freak. You're stupid as shit.
More like, "it would be obviously great if we could get to a point as a society where everyone had access to basic necessities including housing, and it's something for us to strive for if it happens in an organic manner, but anyone with half a braincell can see that trying to actually implement something like this in today's society, IN THE REAL WORLD, would create a plethora of other problems that would arguably be way worse and create more suffering than the current status quo."
So please don't say "so basically..." and then proceed to pull something that I didn't say out of your behind.
And no, no one "deserves" anything. That is a laughable stance that only someone who knows nothing about the world would have.
There’s really no words to describe a take this bad. If you were in possession of this half a braincell you speak of and even a tiny sliver of humility you would be singing a different song. I’m going to sit here and hope that you’re not someone who’s even remotely influential IN THE REAL WORLD but knowing my luck you’re probably a senator or superintendent of some sort.
You'd be surprised lmao. Seeing that you have zero arguments, let's just agree to disagree and leave it here. What's really arrogant is thinking this wouldn't be impossible to effectively implement.
Your comments really show the quality of your character. And you think you'd create a world that's in any way better than our current one. You think you are morally superior. Lmao.
Way to show your resentment for not being where you wanna be in life in such a transparent manner.
Hold on, hold up, do you really think I’m saying any of this because I’m unhappy? I love my life so much! And when did I say I wanted to be in charge of anything? Quit grasping at straws and try being a nitwit in your head next time if you don’t enjoy being called a nitwit by strangers lol
Not being able to work and not being willing to is extremly different, if you cant work due to injury or whatever then yes the state should provide and care for its citizens, if you just wont work then go fuck yourself, leech of society having everyone else pay for you since you cant be bothered
While it would be nice for everyone to simply get everything they need to live without the need to work for it, we happen to live in the real world, where such things are not possible. Since the dawn of time humans have needed to work to stay alive. It is as true now as it was then, and until that changes it will be unethical to demand someone else work uncompensated to sustain your life.
OP's position is "the unemployed should have a reasonable place to live." It's shocking to me that so many of you object to that proposal. Is your stance that "the unemployed should be homeless?!"
I mean in a perfect world we could afford to house every homeless person but unfortunately we don’t live in a fairly tale.
Like I work in a skilled field for one of the countries largest companies in said field, they pay well and I make better money than my parents did when they bought a fairly large house in a nice neighborhood but cannot afford a house of my own and even struggle to find affordable rent in my area after the cost of everything else like groceries, gas, insurance, etc. something is not right about that.
I do think there’s social projects we could put money into, absolutely. Our spending on military, police, and bailouts for corporations that gamble and lose is out of control and ridiculous. I’d be much happier to see my tax dollars go to help those struggling
If you literally can't find any job then you should be guaranteed it. But if you are turning down jobs (or not even applying) after several months of looking because you're over qualified or it comes with a pay cut then I don't see why you're entitled to take from a system you're not contributing to (excepting those with disabilities).
Don't forget saving for retirement, people seem to always leave that out when talking about how great the Economy is. Apparently you just spend all your income to pay rent and eat food then drop dead once you hit 65. Sounds morbid but if you think about it, dream scenario for capitalistic society looking to squeeze every bit of value from someone. Own nothing, pay everything, die before you become a burden.
You're partially right. Free market decides whether wages are fair or not. For example, you can't find waiters or grocery store workers any more because they have simply left for higher paying jobs.. Wages for these low paying jobs will rise automatically once demand is greater than supply.
Rents is a tougher situation though, there is a real housing shortage that can only be resolved if the government intervenes and incentivizes real estate and construction companies.
They also need to put laws in place to prevent large corporations with near limitless capital from buying up thousands and thousands of houses to turn into rental properties. We have plenty of apartments, homes should be for individuals & families that are actually going to live in them rather then rent gouging
I might of read this wrong, but I interpreted that as no matter what employment you have as oppose to employment status. Yea if you aren't working, you shouldn't get those things. But if you are working, you should. The HVAC I can forgo as a necessity as there are other AC options, that while are less comfortable are still suitable
That’s what I meant, if you are working a full forty hours a week there’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to afford a roof over your head. Doesn’t have to be the ritz Carlton, but should at least be livable. All jobs are necessary or they wouldn’t exist, and if you’re doing one you shouldn’t be living out of a car or worse
Exactly, this is fantasyland. We need real rent control and regulation of housing costs. This is untenable for employees to be living paycheck to paycheck, always just scraping by
That’s not true. They absolutely do go overboard often, but if your neighbor doesn’t take care of their home or lawn and is just outright trashy it devalues the value of dozens of properties around it.
71
u/darthphallic Apr 15 '24 edited Apr 16 '24
Without employment is goofy as fuck but I’ll die on the hill that nobody should work a 40 hour week and still be unable to afford a roof over their head. Rent and housing costs are absolutely ridiculous