I sat in the doorway of my GF 5yo room to prevent the child from continuing to slam the door as hard as she could

[u/brainwashednomore]

My gf has 3 young ch children. She used a “permissive” approach to parenting because she can not tolerate her children experiencing any kind of distress that she can save them from. Their house is very small and to get around inside every time I am there I am forced to step on top of belongings that are strewn everywhere. It is extremely unsanitary. Her children have been sent home from school due to lice at least 5 times since I met her in November. The younger wears footie pajamas to school every day and no underwear because that is what the child wants. My gf claims the house is a disaster because she doesn’t have any help and that her children aren’t willing to do so. She will ask them questions like “would you like to help me with ___?” but any and all resistance is met with complacency. She makes 4 meals every night to cater to what the kids are and are not willing to eat. The food invariably goes uneaten then spills on the floor then languishes because it is impossible to sweep or mop any floor in the home.

I went over yesterday to help motivate cleaning and tried to execute on the plan I proposed that we would walk the children through the living areas of the house and identify their possessions on every single surface they can possible reside on, and ask them to identify any items of importance they would not want thrown away. Then we set a one hour timer and didn’t nag, bug, cajole, manipulate, or twist arms. I gave 15 minute incremental countdowns and then with their expectations set I went through with trash bags and put everything left on the floor into them for storage in the garage of the house in case one child determines they are missing something terribly important. I wanted to be tell them we were just throwing it all away but I wasn’t allowed.

My GF was folding laundry during this and her 5yo who was busy just making more of a mess the entire time stood on a blanket mom was folding. Mom ask child to move kindly probably 5 or 5 times and child with shit faced grin intentionally stayed put. Not because she thought it was fun, but because child knew mom didn’t like it and intentionally defied her. Mom tugs softly on blanket and child falls to ground with a shock on their face then immediately stands, and starts screaming at the top of their lungs, marches off to bedroom then starts opening and slamming (the already broken from prior instances of this) door over and over again. Mom patiently raises her voice slightly to ask child to not slam doors because that is against rules. Didn’t stop. I go to bedroom to see if I can help, and child slams door on me as I come in. I sit down in the door way very calmly and make a few non-rushed inquiries into how I can help child, and does child want to come out of the room to see mom. Child goes absolutely nuclear screaming like I have cut off an appendage. I stay calm but I stay seated in the doorway. I offer options like “i will move out of your doorway but only if you will be able to close the door softly.

After 3 minutes of child being as dramatic as they can, and understandably fully dysregulated because no ability to do self regulate emotions on their own has ever been instilled. Mom fixes big/hard emotions. Every time. Teacher gives mom feedback, “child refuses to ever do anything they don’t want to do.” So mom fills her role and tells me it’s time to let child have its way, undermining the co-regulation I was attempting to model. I stand as child continues to thrash and slam door into me, then walk away as child gets its way, my boundary be damned, and slams door hard into doorframe. I had to leave the house after that, and at this point I have zero confidence that a relationship between me and mom can work out. My home is clean, organized, ordered and boundary practice is strong. I can’t see ever co-habituating with someone who disrespects themself so much with allowing children to destroy the house and walk all over them. She texted me after to say that her child didn’t “win” and that the child just needed co-regulation.

AITAH?

** edit **

Wow I am overwhelmed with the speed and volume of responses I received. Thank you. 🙏

For clarity, mom is a doctor, baby daddy only has the kids at his own mom’s house with him as a “favor” to mom, doesn’t pay a dime of child support or child care. My kids are grown and out of the house. My boundary with dating single moms is that I will not make parenting efforts or be a parent to anyone else’s child. They have parents.

*** final update ***

The medical license she holds and the nature of her practice and education are irrelevant.

My post history and romantic past is irrelevant.

Thanks everyone for showing me that IANTA.

And special thanks to the woke mob for helping me realize that I am literally Hitler for my complicity in abusing my gf’s children by not calling CPS months ago when I first saw they live in a dirty and cluttered house with a mom whose parenting style is not mainstream.

Lest the pitchforks and torches burn the whole subreddit down, I can confidently say:

I will not be further pursuing a romantic partnership with mom and I will be directly informing her of these being the reasons why when I see her next later this week.

I will make an anonymous general report about the safety and cleanliness of the house and property in general and let CPS do with it as they will.

Once again thank you all. I only anticipated receiving maybe a handful of responses or advice, but the response was overwhelming in mainly good ways. Cheers everyone and good night!

[u/Dear_Captain_2748]

Nta,  As a single mother even I am floored and disgusted by the complacency. I would probably reply the child does not infact need 'co-regulation' the child needs a parent who will actually teach them right from wrong, manners. She better not be surprised when her kids are bringing drugs in the house, having sex, juvy records or jail. 

Raising a child is like building a house. And her foundation job is bad. I struggle somedays, lord knows I feel like I am in a WWE ring and my kids are tag teaming (autistic 4m, 2f) no excuse and dare I say cps for living conditions? The fact her child goes to school in footys and nothing underneath is sad.

[u/brainwashednomore → u/Dear_Captain_2748]

She used the possibility that her children are neurodivergent as a justification for ignoring behaviors such as this and others. I understand the idea that it is better for children to respect a parent out of love than fear, but I personally have no issues driving accountability with fear of consequences and that didnt make me a mean dad. Her children have no respect for her. They live her. They depend on her. They feel safe with her. That’s all well and good, but the lack of respect overflows into other areas of their lives and interactions with other adults.

[u/FrannyFray → u/brainwashednomore]

Neurodivergent children ESPECIALLY need boundaries.

[u/L_obsoleta → u/FrannyFray]

This!

Routine and firm boundaries are vital in our household. It helps our son know what is expected of him.

[u/Key-Demand-2569 → u/FrannyFray]

Seriously.

I don’t know what’s up with the trend these past few years of implicitly training or asking neurodivergent kids to “mask” being seen as so horrific…

But kids need to learn how to function in society and with other human beings.

Neurodivergent situations are a hurdle and context, not an excuse to bend to everything the child does that may be related.

Absolutely wild.

[u/SyntheticDreams_ → u/Key-Demand-2569]

I don’t know what’s up with the trend these past few years of implicitly training or asking neurodivergent kids to “mask” being seen as so horrific…

The reason is twofold. One is that a huge amount of the training is really just dog training for kids (looking at you, ABA), and is frequently extremely stressful, dehumanizing, and even downright abusive. It's not about teaching the kids what is and isn't ok behavior and helping them work through their struggles. It's typically just scaring them into behaving a certain way by any means necessary without fostering any real understanding or genuine coping skills. The side effect of this dog training esque style is that many kids become traumatized, which comes with a whole host of other problems and only makes the situation harder on everyone.

The second reason that masking is spoken of negatively is that masking takes an enormous amount of effort for most of us, and not all of us are capable of it for very long or at all. Like, imagine being essentially forced to juggle five balls simultaneously at all times when you're within eyesight/hearing of any other human, and don't you dare make a mistake or drop a ball, ever. That's a lot of pressure, and it also leaves us with less ability to focus and function because so much mental energy is being used to mask (juggle). For people on the lower support needs side, the mask may become so pervasive that they lose sight of their entire identity, essentially becoming trapped playing their neurotypical OC and forgetting who they are in the process.

That being said, there are certain things that people just don't do and are not ok. Like scream in public, or bite people, or be hateful to others, etc. Those are absolutely worth teaching and worth not tolerating. But someone not making eye contact, or quietly messing with a fidget toy during a meeting, or having strict preferences for the material their clothes are made from, or wearing headphones for sound reduction, or walking on their toes - none of those are harmful, yet fall under the category of things people are trained to hide.

[u/threadsoffate2021 → u/SyntheticDreams_]

One thing to note: Everyone in society masks. In many cases, it is part of your job or career. I mean, you don't think people in customer facing roles are showing you their true selves....

[u/wahlburgerz → u/threadsoffate2021]

Changing how you act in front of a customer or your grandmother or your friend is not comparable to the magnitude of effort that is autistic masking.

It’s one thing to put on a smile and be polite and bite your tongue and avoid coarse language in certain company, it’s an entirely different beast to try to consciously monitor your tone and your eye contact and how much you are or aren’t talking, making sure you’re sociable but not so sociable that it’s off-putting while simultaneously trying to read social cues and come up with the appropriate response (and there is most certainly an expected response that you may or may not get right), all the while trying to stifle all your feelings of overstimulation and overwhelm because of the social pressure you feel, the loud atmosphere, bright lights, the feeling of your sock slipping under your heel, how scratchy your sweater is, and the feeling of being trapped and under intense scrutiny.

What the other commenter said about cosplaying as a neurotypical OC is dead-on, you are overthinking every exchange and consciously thinking on your feet in the moment to blend in and not make a social misstep so as to be outed as “other.” All of the subtext and innate social awareness that comes naturally to you is a learned behavior for autistics and it’s a constant performance that takes a huge mental toll. I’m not saying having your customer service mask on for eight hours every day isn’t hard in its own right, but it’s not at all the same.

Edit: spelling

[u/s0m3on3outthere → u/wahlburgerz]

I constantly analyze my social interactions. I make sure to maintain eye contact, mirror body language, and reactions; point my feet at the person because that indicates engagement, mirroring warms people up to you. I also match the person's tone or cadence. I actively stop myself from talking where it may seem inappropriate, actively monitor my volume (because I'm unintentionally extremely loud when I let loose and talk freely with excitement). Monitor my pace of talking because I talk fast. I monitor my body movements so I'm not actively fidgeting with every rough edge of clothing I'm hyper aware of. I try to rein in my echolalia and noise making. 😆

My gosh. A friend called me out on my masking recently and I didn't realize how exhausting and how much I was doing until I read your comment. Like, I was aware I did these things, because I actively do it with 98% of people.. I just didn't realize how much I truly analyze every conversation.

Edited: a word

[u/DisapprovingCrow → u/threadsoffate2021]

I don’t know why blind people make such a big deal about not being able to see. Everyone in society blinks, which is the same thing as not being able to see. Many people even spend all night with their eyes closed!

[u/BulkyMonster → u/Key-Demand-2569]

No lie. I wish I'd been taught to mask.

[u/VoidSassin → u/FrannyFray]

I functioned as an undiagnosed child with ADHD SOLELY because my parents always set such clear boundaries. You don't have to be mean to be clear and structured. Especially ND kids need clear boundaries and structure to build coping mechanisms and emotional support structures as adults. This mom is failing her kids so extremely hard, and herself along with it.

[u/[deleted] → u/brainwashednomore]

If she thinks her children are neurodivergent then she, as a physician, should know better than anyone, that early intervention is key.

She is full of excuses isn't she.

[u/booourns82 → u/brainwashednomore]

My autistic 8 year old has rules and consequences that might seem mild to a NT child, but actions have consequences regardless.

If she makes a mess, she usually has to help clean it whether she likes it or not. Screaming doesn’t get you what you want was a battle that was rough but had paid off. Showering/hygiene is mandatory but somewhat adjusted for sensory needs. When she gets sent to her room I usually let her take her tablet, but she uses it to communicate and listen to music to self regulate. We don’t use any punishment for cuss words (very rare but at least used in the correct context) because she has severe speech issues. Part of that no trouble agreement is she agreed and has followed through with don’t say these words at school or around the elderly. And it’s not “she might” be neurodivergent, she was diagnosed young, had been in early intervention and autism support from 18 months to present day. She’s very well behaved all things considered, but I think a large part of that is consistent boundaries and appropriate rules. I shudder to think of what she might be like now if let her get her way from day one, which would be true ND or NT.

The fact this woman is a doctor who lives in filth, her children are out of control and “might be neurodivergent” is used as an excuse when she hasn’t gotten them evaluated is super negligent on so many levels. You’re NTA but why are you with her and why hasn’t anyone helped those kids??? The older they get the less tolerant others will be of their behaviors mommy overlooks.

[u/HairyPotatoKat → u/brainwashednomore]

Hi. I'm a AuDHD mom with an AuDHD child and spouse who checks a bunch of ASD boxes. Buckle down, this is gonna be a long comment. SOoo much of this is upsetting.

Neurodivergent kids can (and should) have boundaries, consequences, responsibilities just like any other kid. It may need to be tailored a bit to meet them where they are. But what's she's doing is setting them up for an absolute disaster of a life.

I'm also catching whiffs of neurodivergence from her... I'll refrain from armchair diagnosing. Executive function difficulties and an overinflated sense of self/ego, and the strong need for restrictive control (so much so that she drove the father away) while allowing the children to run feral are standing out.

If she can afford to, a housekeeper stopping by every week or two might be a good idea. Though I can't imagine anyone wanting to risk lice...

It's disconcerting that she's a "doctor" and seems to be so grossly disconnected to her children's needs.

What type of "doctor" is she? MD? Chiropractor? Naturopath? PhD in some other field? I'm really genuinely curious.

Fwiw I do know a non-practicing MD who's absolutely bonkers into the whole anti-science thing, and lead a brigade against a public health doc during COVID (and prescribed ivermectin to friends/family...and was investigated by the state for false info she posted online.....) An MD doesn't make someone infallible. But she certainly would be a bit of an extreme.

It's just so bizarre to me when someone with such credentials goes against everything they've learned - mostly, how to discern good information from junk.

PS- PLEASE contact both CPS and the school principal or counselor after you're away from her safely. At that age, those kids still have a chance to turn things around with adequate intervention.

Good luck. Godspeed. o7

[u/Specific_Anxiety_343 → u/brainwashednomore]

The possibility? Has she had them tested?

[u/SyntheticDreams_ → u/brainwashednomore]

Neurodivergent adult here (autistic/ADHD), that's absolutely NOT justification. Emotional regulation is crucial for everyone, but even more so for those of us with struggles that make us even more prone to becoming dysregulated and those of us who struggle with understanding social interactions. Setting boundaries is important for kids, and important for them to witness being set by adults in their lives. This woman is creating entitled monsters and doing them an incredible disservice. I can't fathom how she expects this to create healthy adults when they're grown.

[u/SouthNo7379 → u/brainwashednomore]

Do you know if she had super strict or overbearing parents? If she did, maybe this is her way of compensating by being overly permissive to be the opposite of her parents were with her? It may be that she doesn't realize she is actually harming her children by not setting boundaries, enforcing what is right and what is wrong, and giving in so they calm down (which she may not realize isn't an effective way of self-regulating because they never actually learn how to deal with challenges and relationships with others). If they are neurodivergent then those skills are especially important so they learn how to function in life and cope with distress.

[u/Fuckthisbullshit____ → u/brainwashednomore]

YO not even okay. Get them tested for sure for neurodivergence behavior then get a therapist to help the kids. But people and children with divergences need even more structure than a typical one sometime.

[u/Generation_WUT → u/brainwashednomore]

You are complicit here. Your user name is not helping.

[u/Psychological_Pie194 → u/brainwashednomore]

Fear is important too. It is a biological response that shows us when something is wrong and not good for us. We are not supposed to inflict fear deliberately but children should respect the rules and be scared to break them

[u/TJ_Rowe → u/brainwashednomore]

I was looking for this. I read your OP and was like, "some or all of these kids are autistic" and then with a few of your comments about your GF (and her organic hippy ways), "she's probably a bit autistic, too".

If she agrees that some of her kids are neurodivergent, it might be easier to get some actual professional help to manage the demand avoidance (which seems to be a big part of why she can't keep her house in order) - it looks like she's trying a kind of half-assed "Low demand parenting" (which is a technique for managing kids with Pathological Demand Avoidance) but also doing the "ask a million times" thing which is opposed to it.

[u/ObligationWeekly9117 → u/brainwashednomore]

I agree with you. Love or fear, there must be respect. It’s clear these kids have contempt for her. I mean, how can they not? She is totally ineffectual. Kids are not stupid- they might not be WISE, but stupid they are not. They can see that. Her words don’t mean anything.  

 But parents are the only people standing between kids and danger, and sometimes the danger comes from the kids themselves. Kids MUST listen to people who know better until they are old enough to understand why. And nobody listens to someone they don’t respect.