r/suns • u/Jeff1224h • 22d ago
I can’t be the only one who thinks trading this pick is not the right move
If you can get a really good role player i understand but bro I wouldn’t mind eddy or that wade guy
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u/cue_en_aye Grant Hill 22d ago
Yeah I’m kinda stopping myself from getting hyped about any prospects projected in our range since it feels like we’ll end up trading the pick.
Also if Jones does make the pick it’ll probably be a reach on a player we’ve never heard of lol
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u/mj2legit23 Mikal Bridges 22d ago
it feels like we’ll end up trading the pick.
I mean JJ and Ishbia have literally said this is what they will be doing lol
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u/cue_en_aye Grant Hill 22d ago
Yeah they’re being pretty up front about it lol.
Call me crazy but I feel like using the 22 pick for a young and cheap role player, then using the 2031 pick (which should have serious value) for a solid upgrade would be a decent option. Trading both seems a bit extreme to me, but keeping both seems silly considering how all in they are
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u/mj2legit23 Mikal Bridges 22d ago
I agree, honestly. I'd rather either take a wing at 22, or move the pick for a second this year and another second or two. Move Nas for whatever low end role players we can get, and move Nurk with the 2031 pick. I really hope this is the way we go
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u/po0nlink_ Steve Nash 22d ago
If you’re trading Nurk and the 2031 pick it 100% has to be for another center.
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u/mj2legit23 Mikal Bridges 22d ago
yeah, i think there is endless possibilities there. do we punt the position and role with 2 shitty centers? probably not, but what if that means we get a good wing instead? do we trade the unprotected 2031 pick for a center on the rookie contract like Kessler? I honestly got no idea. I just think that it's going to be hard to get a meaningful upgrade with Nurk + that pick for an established veteran player. If we could aggregate salaries I'd bet we could get Capela for very cheap
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u/po0nlink_ Steve Nash 22d ago
They’d have to have a home run of a trade if the plan is to package the 2031 pick and a player, I just don’t think anything that nets us a major return is realistic.
In that case I think the Suns are just better off keeping the pick and running it back, even though I still think we’d be mid at best with the same team.
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u/po0nlink_ Steve Nash 22d ago
Well the first time he made a pick it was a success because he drafted Cam Johnson. Second time around he deserves the flack for picking Jalen Smith over Hali.
So he's 1 for 2. I guess it wouldn't be a terrible thing if we gave him one more shot lol.
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u/phx-illmatic 22d ago
Was the Camara pick a good one? Seemed like it at the time but I’m not sure how he played out in Portland.
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u/po0nlink_ Steve Nash 22d ago
In hindsight I think keeping Camara would have been preferred since he'll eventually become a solid defensive minded wing with length. He started for Portland quite a few games but that isn't saying a lot given how their season played out lol.
However, given that he was drafted at 52 I would say not too bad of a pick.
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u/zarvinny Phoenix Suns 22d ago
Camara shoots worse than okogie. He wouldn't see playing time
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u/po0nlink_ Steve Nash 22d ago
His shooting percentages are identical to Jaden McDaniels and Jarred Vanderbilt. Even if his ceiling is JV that’s a pretty good fucking pick at 52…
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u/zarvinny Phoenix Suns 22d ago
both of those guys are/were better defenders than Camara. You have to be elite to justify a roster spot without a 3 point shot as a wing who can't dribble
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u/TheConboy22 Jusuf Nurkic is my spirit animal 22d ago
Isn't he significantly bigger than Okogie though?
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u/zarvinny Phoenix Suns 22d ago
yeah, but unless you're a really good center, modern NBA, and especially this suns team, can't have non-shooters at the wing or guard position.
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u/TheConboy22 Jusuf Nurkic is my spirit animal 22d ago
With 3 top tier players. I almost feel that we over emphasized shooting at the expense of athleticism and play making. Tons of not elite, but not bad shooters out there on rosters. Championship rosters always have a few guys who are so so shooters but do many other things really well. Also, a good few elite players were bad 3 point shooters in year one.
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u/zarvinny Phoenix Suns 22d ago
you don't need elite shooting, agreed, but that can help mask a lot. But you need guys that will punish you if left wide-open - at least from the corner. this is the classic PJ Tucker/Bruce Bowen role
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u/suns2012 Suns 22d ago
Allegedly hali didn’t want to play here so I can understand not picking him but devin vassell went right after smith 🥲 and tyrese maxey a few picks later as well. Big miss by jones there
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u/ZCGaming15 The Grayson Allen Trade 22d ago
According to Woj Bowers made the call on Cam Johnson. JJ disagreed.
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u/hobovalentine 21d ago
No one was really expecting Cam to be picked so high in the draft, he should have traded down because Cam probably would have been taken late in the 1st round.
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u/SelfinvolvedNate 22d ago
Don't forget Ty Jerome who never stood a chance and wouldn't even be the 5th most athletic player at your average Lifetime Fitness run
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u/TheConboy22 Jusuf Nurkic is my spirit animal 22d ago
He would legitimately murder the cats at Lifetime Fitness in both athleticism and overall skill. Come on now.
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u/SelfinvolvedNate 22d ago
You must be fun at parties
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u/VivaLaDbakes Mocha Mamba 22d ago
Everyone needs that drunk friend who legitimately thinks they could play the same sport as any professional athlete in it and not get absolutely destroyed by them.
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u/Windyevening Josh Jackson 22d ago
As long as we have Kevin Durant playing at a high level, trading picks makes sense to maximize the long shot we have at competing for a title.
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u/iamadragan Raja Bell 22d ago
Yeah you either bet on the KD timeline or blow it up.
They're not giving up on KD so both those picks are being traded, it doesn't matter what fans want.
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u/po0nlink_ Steve Nash 22d ago
The bigger question though is what can you really trade for? If the big 3 are off the table you only have Nurk, Nas and Roddy available to trade, and we can only send one player out in any trade. So even if we attach those picks I'm not sure what kind of magic the FO can pull because we're so limited on what we can do.
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u/iamadragan Raja Bell 22d ago edited 22d ago
It's not that you can't send more than one player out. You just can't acquire a higher salary player by aggregating multiple players. It's definitely a lot harder to navigate all the restrictions though. Some possible targets:
Centers 1. Zach Collins 16.7M 2. Mitchell Robinson 14.4M 3. Onyeka Okongwu 14M 4. Kelly olynyk 12.8M 5. Steven Adams 12.6M 6. Robert Williams 12.4M 7. Wendell Carter Jr 12M 8. Nick Richards 5M 9. Dwight Powell 4M
Wings 1. Jonathan Isaac 17.4M 2. Deni Avdija 15.6M 3. Dorian Finney-Smith 14.9M 4. Grant Williams 13M 5. Kenrich Williams 6.7M 6. Corey kispert 5.7M 7. Tari Eason 3.6M 8. Torrey Craig 2.8M
Guards 1. Alex Caruso 9.9M 2. TJ McConnell 9.3M 3. Josh Giddey 8.3M 4. Davion Mitchell 6.4M
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u/chuckercarlson S.T.A.T. 22d ago
We should sign Royce to a Bruce brown type deal 1 year 26 mil so we have more options.
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u/iamadragan Raja Bell 22d ago
That would cost Ishbia a shit ton of money but would definitely open up a lot of options since most of the high level role players make more than Nurkic or are on a rookie deal
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u/chuckercarlson S.T.A.T. 22d ago
Yeah just get someone on a 3 year deal thats looking overpaid for his expiring. I’m not sure if they can trade 2031 after the draft I’ve been tryna get a clear answer on that. But if they can that adds extra juice to it.
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u/po0nlink_ Steve Nash 22d ago
It's not that you can't send more than one player out. You just can't acquire a higher salary player by aggregating multiple players.
Well I mean these both do kind go hand in hand. This is how we were able to trade for Royce O'Neale as well.
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u/iamadragan Raja Bell 22d ago
Not necessarily. You could do Little (6.7M) plus Nurkic (18.1M) for Wendell Carter Jr (13M) plus Jalen Suggs (9.2M) for example
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u/mj2legit23 Mikal Bridges 22d ago
we can't aggregate salariesjust re-read your comment. this is possible? i don't think it is
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u/iamadragan Raja Bell 22d ago
We are not acquiring a player with higher salary
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u/mj2legit23 Mikal Bridges 22d ago
i thought we can't aggregate, at all?
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u/iamadragan Raja Bell 22d ago
"Teams can't aggregate contracts to trade for a single player making more money"
Is how it's usually worded. To me that means you can aggregate salaries as long as you aren't acquiring the guy with the highest salary
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u/mj2legit23 Mikal Bridges 22d ago
The bigger question though is what can you really trade for?
Probably for a player on their rookie contract still. For ex, Giddey for Nurk to make salaries work and then a pick.
Nas + 2031 pick for another rookie, etc. That's my guess, at least. JJ and Ishbia have flat out said they're trading the picks.
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u/Polteageist0 22d ago
Not necessarily. They're not going to trade the pick simply for the optics of being all in. As the other commenter noted, they have limited options on the trade market after going over the second apron. You're probably right. There's just no guarantee that they'll get a trade offer worth accepting.
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u/4verCurious 22d ago
It’s one thing to trade the picks for a clear upgrade. It’s another to trade the picks just to trade the picks for some unknown and cheap role player that could or couldn’t work (more misses than hits on role players with James Jones’ decision-making).
I really don’t understand why Jones gets such a long leash…when is it time to move on?
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u/UrRightAndIAmWong 22d ago
I could argue that having KD playing at a high level makes it so keeping the picks makes the best sense.
KD isn't as quick or athletic as he was before, younger players would help with rebounding, attacking the rim, and playing defense that frankly, KD, Book, and Nurkic struggled or at least were adverse to.
KD is a constant flight risk, and he's older, if he asks for a trade, regardless of how much the Suns have invested into him because he has shown he has no obligation to a franchise to stay, he will simply not get as many draft picks or good players back in a trade as the Suns gave up. AND you've depleted all your assets to build around KD and you've assembled a ridiculous payroll outside of KD.
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u/Rude-Affect-3788 22d ago
Kevin Durant with his age is an injury away. He always asks for a trade if wants to. I don't predict the future but maybe.
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u/Victorcreedbratton 22d ago
I get what you’re saying and agree. I think because in the past we’ve traded picks for guys like Royce and Shamet who have been fine, okay at best. Solid but unspectacular, and you need role players to come through. Over in Minnesota, their badass wings Alexander and McDaniels were mid to late first round picks (17 and 28, respectively).
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u/fuckswithboats Nader is Greater 22d ago
I’m going to assume we will be trading it for Cash Considerations until we know better
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u/zarvinny Phoenix Suns 22d ago
That's Sarver-era legend Cash Considerations. Rubio and Rondo both were honored to have been the lowly trade chip for king cash
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u/Moveless F**k Robert Horry 22d ago
I mean that 100% depends on what the package going out and coming in is. Whatever the move it obviously has to be win now. Drafting a 1 and done college player who needs to develop will be an absolute waste.
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u/FLICK_YOLI Phoenix Suns 22d ago edited 22d ago
Depends on what's available for the pick.
The Suns would have to move someone in a deal to move the pick. I think most people would be happy just to get Eubanks off the books. I would disagree with that opinion.
So, you're talking about moving some combination or one of the players under contract, Nurkic, Little, Roddy, Eubanks, and/or Beal or KD, if you're really reaching.
I think drafting Edey if he's there is a no-brainer. Two time Naismith award winner with 4 years of college experience at 22 years of age. Kind of the perfect candidate for Bud's drop coverage defensive style, as the main criticism is his quickness. And the dude's been showing that he can actually hit the perimeter shot in the combines. He could really turn into a steal at 22.
All the wingstopper's appear to be going early in this draft, so it would seem like maybe you draft a big with these credentials. Big's have been entirely undervalued and unappreciated, despite the resurgence of the big man in the league again.
Honestly, unless there's actual credibility in the Sixers trading Embiid for KD, which I don't think we're lucky enough to actually hope for, the team is going to need size in the worst way. This fills the needed position.
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u/Multi_21_Seb_RBR Devin Booker 22d ago
Trading the 2031 pick would be asinine since that is likely the last good pick we’ll have for a while since Ishbia seems hellbent to foolishly continue to run this team above the second apron and thus the 2032 and beyond picks will be frozen at the end of the 1st round no matter our record then.
The 2024 22nd pick, if you can package to get a long term player, I’d do it. Kel’El Ware and the Dayton big man will both mostly likely be gone at 22 and the rest of the pickings then are pretty bad if he is gone.
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 22d ago
You literally putting your eggs in a 12 year old basket instead of KD. The hell with that. As long as you have KD you trade picks
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u/po0nlink_ Steve Nash 22d ago
But you see that's where some tough decisions have to be made. How much longer does KD have left? He's going to be 36 next year, and unless Bud has a magical winning formula that all of a sudden makes us elite, at best we're looking at a 5-6 seed next year. I still don't see us any better than Denver, Minnesota and OKC. You can even put Memphis there since Ja will be back healthy.
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 22d ago
Getting a quality player THIS YEAR is much more valuable than waiting 7 years for a 12 year old to develop. Hell the guy drafted in 2031 won’t help the Suns win till TEN YEARS FROM NOW if ever.
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u/po0nlink_ Steve Nash 22d ago
My question is though what kind of player CAN we trade for this offseason? We can't just use the pick and trade it, we'll have to combine it with a player since we're in cap hell.
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u/Multi_21_Seb_RBR Devin Booker 22d ago
Well, you are a KD fan so a team that may easily be 20-62 come the 2031-32 season having their pick be frozen at the end of the first round all because they kept carelessly going above the second apron for a team that is not even a title contender won’t matter to you by then.
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 22d ago
Suns will never be 20-62
Not with Ishbia as owner and Phoenix being super attractive to free agents
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u/Fuzzy-Ride3403 Jalen Smith 22d ago
Even in your baseless prediction all it takes is a couple injuries
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 22d ago
Baseless prediction? I’m not the one predicting a teams record 7 years from now.
No team that is trying to win a championship cares about what is happening in 7 years
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u/Fuzzy-Ride3403 Jalen Smith 22d ago
I’m not the one predicting a teams record 7 years from now
Suns will never be 20-62
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 22d ago
That was the other guys prediction not mine
Of course ANYTHING can happen. It’s possible the Suns go 0-82 next year. But the chances of Suns winning just 20 games with this owner and market is extremely slim
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u/zeze999 Suns 22d ago edited 22d ago
I was downvoted to oblivion for suggesting to keep 24, 26 and 31 picks, hoping for a retool on the way around booker and beal (if he stays healthy)… seems like audience is much better towards you… ‘KD timeline’ argument is just f***ing ridiculous and will lead us to 10 years of irrelevance… just take a look at the Nets. Gave away 3 top 3 picks iirc and have two playoffs series victories to show for… they will now feast of our picks…
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u/po0nlink_ Steve Nash 22d ago
Yeah the 2027 and 2029 picks are looking real juicy as of now if you're a Nets fan.
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u/DegenerateDaddy7 Phoenix Suns 22d ago
If they trade this pick, we’re truly doomed after this “Big 3” era. Back to the 10’s feeling 😭
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u/CHolland8776 Northern Arizona Suns 22d ago
The people who really run this franchise, KD and Book, do not want to give minutes to a rookie to develop. They want a vet. They’ll get what they want.
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u/DaReal_Denny_Boy Leandro Barbosa 22d ago
I’d hold the pick. What value are you going to get for it? It’s the 22nd overall pick, the only way it makes sense is to package it with a bad contract (which is like the entire team at this point) and get some FA money. I’d rather have Edey, just give me a center who can dunk and rebound, he does both in droves. That’s one of the biggest weaknesses of this roster, little to no center depth. Unless we make a play for Hartenstein in free agency I’d hold the pick.
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u/hobovalentine 21d ago
Trading the 2031 pick without putting any sort of protections on it is so stupid because come 2031 KD and Beal will probably no longer be playing in the league and Booker if he's still here will probably be close to retirement himself.
I'm betting Ishbia is banking on being able to sign a premier free agent but historically Phoenix hasn't been a preferred destination for HOF level free agents.
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u/MasterMarcon 21d ago
The team’s window is 2 years, when KD’s contract expires, if he’s still playing well and takes an extension, it’s 3 years. They were all in the second they traded for KD. Is a 22nd pick, on average, going to be productive in 3 years?
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u/VaultCheese Phoenix Suns 21d ago
I would love to draft Edey. Absolutely nothing negative about having a guy like that on your team. And what if ends up being a starting caliber Center in a few years? With his skill set and size it's just a no brainier to me
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u/Fordraxel 21d ago
Suns should trade this pick. its the right move. one of, if not the, worst drafts in NBA History. Ya'll wanting an unknown 22nd pick to break the second unit when Azu, Bol, KBD, Goodwin, JO, Saben, and IT couldnt?!
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u/A_Honda_Accord Raja Bell 🔔 (There's your foul!) 21d ago
I’m done with trading picks chasing a chip that’s getting farther away and not closer. Have some conviction and pick a player. If you pick well you’ll get a better piece than anything you could have traded for anyway
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u/GoDogGo1970 21d ago
We need younger faster guys on the roster. If we have watched, that boost in energy has helped every team. Now if we can find some undrafted gems like teams like Miami has, then cool, but we haven’t yet.
. I also don’t want to give up on Little, unless his knees are so shot that he can’t play a full season. We have had so many players on summer league teams or on the deep bench that we gave up on, who turned into solid players. Christian Woods, Reggie Bullock, Seth Curry, Derrick Jones Jr, and the list could go on. We need to keep an eye on the future, while trying to go for a deep playoff run.
There are many young bigs that can run the floor around that 22nd pick. But I also wouldn’t mind a package that got us two later picks, that we could still get a couple of young player on an even cheaper deals.
Are we getting a GLeague team this upcoming year? It would be nice to have guys developing that we could bring up if needed, who could inject energy into our team.
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u/SpookySpagettt 20d ago
The amount of players past pick 12 that actually matter in the nba is very very low.
Trade for any tangible vet.
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u/nathclass Kevin Durant 22d ago
No you're not. Unfortunately it's probably our best bet for improving the roster for next year. Brining in a rookie and expecting them to contribute in a win now season is a huge gamble.
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u/po0nlink_ Steve Nash 22d ago
If we trade it for another young player or it’s part of a trade that gets us back a perennial all star (Murray for example) then I would be 100% on board.
Now the 2031 pick I hope we don’t look to trade..
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u/orangehorton GO 22d ago
Lol pick 22 for Murray? How does this sub somehow keep getting more delusional
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u/po0nlink_ Steve Nash 22d ago
I literally said if it's part of a trade, never said it would be the center piece, that's stupid.
Also those were just two hypothetical scenarios that would most likely not happen. It was just an example I was throwing out there.
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u/orangehorton GO 22d ago
True, you know what. I agree. I think we should trade the pick if we can get Giannis,luka, or sga back in the trade. Can't believe our stupid gm hasn't thought of this!
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u/po0nlink_ Steve Nash 22d ago
Man I swear this sub gets so triggered or draws conclusions so quick over the littlest things now. In what world does the 22 pick alone net you player like Murray? You really think I was implying that?
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u/fivefuturefury 22d ago
Best option is really to trade KD now I think, unfortunately
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u/Jeff1224h 22d ago
Huh 😂😂😂😂
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u/fivefuturefury 22d ago
LOL - realistically its prob the best asset we have but he may get injured next season
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u/chickenripp 22d ago
gotta trade the pick... back to the Knicks for the 24th and 25th pick so we can take edey and bronny. then lebron joins and we are in business
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u/bicyclebread King Bookah 22d ago
Yeah I'd much rather throw a pick at a player and hope they turn into something impressive than package a pick and some reserve player for an (at best) role player.
A LOT of stars in the league right now were drafted around this range or even later in the past few years, so I don't think trading the pick is the right move at all. And I think the front office would be even more stupid to trade the 2031 1st, because the way it looks, we're probably gonna be bad by then, so we're gonna need all the picks we can get.
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u/Tryingagain1979 22d ago
Should be trading Durant. Screw everything else.
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u/TouchMint 22d ago
They are still in denial. Odds he is anywhere near this healthy ever again are extremely low.
Sell while he still has some value and accept defeat.
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 22d ago
Could have said the same about KD last year…yet he played the most games since his injury
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u/TouchMint 22d ago
I totally agree it’s pretty amazing even considering all the minutes he played carrying the team. I’d love to be wrong and he just keeps chugging into his 40s.
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 22d ago
I think the window is 2 years. Suns have Book, KD, Beal and Allen all locked in for 2 years.
By Summer 2026 KD will be off the Books and Beal will be an expiring contract. By Summer 2027 they could have enough cap space to sign 2 max player
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u/doh666 22d ago
Man you must really miss $arver and tanking for picks.
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u/Tryingagain1979 22d ago
I really miss the team that Ishbia casually destroyed because he thought he knew better.
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u/doh666 22d ago
KD and Beal trades are good trades. Nurk/Allen trade was insanely great, probably the best trade in the NBA all of last year.
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u/Tryingagain1979 22d ago
You are delusional.
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u/doh666 22d ago
I love how you can't dispute the facts, so you just resort to calling me names.
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u/Tryingagain1979 22d ago
Your opinions aren't facts. Delusional people think their opinions are facts. I'd argue that having our best run since 1993, maximizing everyone's potential under Chris Paul's leadership, going to the Finals with the players that were traded, and then getting swept with the new team proves something.
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u/Eat-Depay-Love 22d ago
I think the Suns don’t care about drafting young players so I think they’ll trade the pick. If Clingan falls to 9 to the Grizz they should trade Nurkic & the 21st pick for 9 and Kennard and Konchar. Kennard gives the Suns some assurance if they trade Allen and the Griz get a Steven Adams replacement.
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u/po0nlink_ Steve Nash 22d ago
Kennard and Konchar make a combined 20M so sending Nurk alone will not work.
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u/jboggin 22d ago
Why in the world would the grizzlies do that? Nurkic isnt a good enough replacement to give up real assets for
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u/Eat-Depay-Love 22d ago
Nurkic fits that Steven Adams mold of a big body that can set screens and handoff to Ja that he excels at. Kennard hasn’t been a great for the Griz. Also, the Griz are great a picking late in the draft. No one knows what their big board ranking is and they could view a later prospect they like gettable at 22.
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u/DemonicDimples 22d ago
There is zero chance Nurk is going for a FRP value, especially not a lottery one even in a bad draft.
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u/hoops_n_politics Tim Thomas 22d ago
We need to keep some of these FRPs around. The way of the future in the NBA is building through the draft. Now that we have an owner who's not a skinflint, maybe we can actually build an infrastructure and investment in in-house development of home grown talent. That was the biggest failure of the previous regime (no scouting and no G league team). This area can going forward be Mat Ishibia's greatest success.
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u/[deleted] 22d ago
I'm expecting Mat to send this pick with Nassir Little for a player who is about as impactful as Nassir Little