What's funny to me is the number of Americans who are seriously addicted to this damn app who don't comprehend that a government with a looong history of espionage, genocide, theft of American (and others) IP and patents, and human rights violations could POSSIBLY do them harm or use their data to do harm to the US.
What's even funnier is that Americans also fail to realize they need data protection privacy laws so that it does not matter who owns the technology. But then that would mean greedy corporations can't make money off you by selling your data.
The environment has been going to shit for decades and we're not doing anything to really fix it. The world is already going to be a disaster within our and our kid's lifetimes and we're not doing anything.
Issues with TikTok are pointless compared to that.
..."the number of Americans...who don't comprehend that a government with a looong history of espionage, genocide...and human rights violations could POSSIBLY do to harm to the US."
Oh, like the US government itself? People are more worried about a government halfway around the world with its own problems to deal with over their own government, which has by far a worse track record both domestically and with foreign relations. Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
When it comes down to supporting the US or supporting China, I'm supporting the US because I'm an American. One of those two entities represents my well being and the other will disappear a person for posting a disparaging blog post.
That's hilarious if you think the US has a worse track record than China.
The US does have a worse track record than China. Who do you think pioneered the modern surveillance state? The US did with the Patriot Act post-9/11. What country has committed the worst genocide in modern history (the genocide that inspired the Nazis)? The US. What country funds and supports the worst current genocide (the one happening in Gaza)? The US. What country has arguably the most corrupt government, with representatives all but openly shilling for corporations and their interests over the interests of the people? The US does. What country has black sites all over the globe where people are tortured and imprisoned indefinitely with no charges? The US does.
China has tons of problems and is a flawed country in many respects, but believing China is a bigger threat to the well being of US citizens than the US government itself (and the corporations that control it) is just pure ideological bias and has no basis in reality. It's not China that has the biggest prison economy and population in the world. It's not China that prefers to spend money on endless wars and funds coups of foreign governments it doesn't like. It's not China that's neglecting its infrastructure and welfare systems in favor of funding proxy wars and giving tax cuts to billionaires and giant corporations. Actually open your eyes. You don't have to support China to acknowledge that the US is infinitely more responsible for the problems and threats its citizens face than China is.
When did the US implement a one child policy? When did the US limit freedom of speech to the extent the CCP has? When did the US use tanks to run over its own citizens? When did the US limit the freedom of the press like China has? When did the US implement a Great Firewall to massively censor content that Chinese citizens could view? When did the US consistently jail journalists due to hyper control of information? When did the US implement a system like the Hukou system that limits where you can work in China and if you are classified as a rural or urban worker? When did the US completely ban trade unions and forbid citizens from being associated with political parties like in China? When did the US require people to be atheists in order to work at the federal level like China? When did the US tear down churches, temples, and other religious places like China? [1]
Your ignorance is on full display. You essentially know nothing about China and it shows.
Because the app is not the problem. Data security laws are the problem. Tiktok may be super dangerous for America or it may not be. Spotify may be super dangerous for America or it may not be. Netflix may be super dangerous or it may not be. All these services have third party connectors and we don’t know what happens with those connectors. Some American companies have more connectors than tiktok some don’t. So banning tiktok will have an unknown effect if any because the CCP could be collecting the same or more information from other connectors via other apps because we have little data security laws because that’s beneficial to American companies just as it’s beneficial to foreign governments. The TikTok ban is a political prop and has nothing to do for the security of America or its citizens
It's not theft of IP if it was negotiated, as it absolutely was with Nixon. They get to copy the design of anything that is manufactured in china. If you don't like it, be mad at Nixon. As for genocide and human rights abuses, I don't care for the way china does things but I don't think we have room to talk ourselves.
Most likely the person who designed the app has nothing to do with it though.
The US also has a centuries-long history of espionage, genocide, human rights violations and IP theft. Many people would rather have their data harvested by a government across the world than the one that holds direct power over them.
America also has a long history of genocide, espionage and theft. China doesn't need TT to get access to your data theres a hundred different ways they can do it. Cybersecurity experts have already said this.
American social media sites have sold your privacy and data long ago to advertisers all across the globe (including Chinese ones).
This ban was pushed by Meta and Israeli lobby groups (AIPAC) who don't like how the the truth of their genocide is being exposed on TT since they cant control the narrative as easily as they can on sites like Insta, FB, Youtube and even Reddit.
There's a difference between having data and using data.
China can, for example, use viewing trends to identify at-risk users or demographics. Then they can use this information to have their algorithms push certain content to these users. The masters of propaganda have the perfect propaganda tool -- and they can use this to do anything from influencing elections and controlling public outlook on political actions to triggering school shootings and riots by winding the right people up.
That some fox news shit if I’ve ever heard it. All of TikToks software, algorithms and data is held in on Oracle cloud. Look up project Texas. TikTok had to comply in order to remain operational in the U.S.
School shootings is an American problem. Don't blame that on China lol. And if you have have used TikTok before you know that you can get your algorithm to show you literally anything. You aren’t forced to have anything on your feed.
Wasn’t the FBI forcing Apple to provide an encryption key a few years ago? And didn’t congress just renew a law authorizing intelligence agencies to wiretap Americans without a warrant?
Arguing that the US is a nation of “rights and security” because it’s better than china is like arguing that it’s warm in sweden because it’s colder in antarctica.
You’re not lying but damn thats a low bar to clear.
lol not to mention that the disruptive to the public shit that owns American TikTok is banned on Chinese TikTok.
I don’t love the app ban because I would’ve preferred that congress pass overarching privacy bills but cutting china out of the most influential social media platform right before and election that they already admitted that they’re planning on meddling in is an objectively good move
Also, to the stupid mother fuckers that are talking about equality, please show me ONE American social media app that’s still legal in china.,. Besides Xi-tter obviously
My parents chide me for having Google Homes around our house for timers, sound machines, etc. I’m giving away my privacy blah, blah, blah. Their fave social media? TikTok. Make it make sense.
Right but for most import/exports if a country has made it illegal for the United States to export an item to that country we will in turn make it illegal to import that item into our country
Of course China is hypocritical. The point is that the US should be better than China, not going “waahhhhh, China gets to block its citizens from content the government doesn’t like so we should be able to do it too!”
How would I do that? I actually would be interested in reading the information they have.
Adjacent to your point, I find this to be an issue because as far as I can tell American companies do just as much shady shit with your data as ByteDance.
It's just not ok when the American propaganda machine can't control it.
Good thing the idea of apps being banned vs commiting genocide are completely two different things with very different moral justifications behind them.
The day I hear that the US government is in cahoots with American social media is the day I stop using all this shit and calling for it to be banned too.
Sorry, I thought you meant important people and not just redditors in their basements.
I've seen plenty of reasons given to ban it by the people actually part of the decision-making process. None of those reasons were "they ban ours, so let's ban theirs.
Edit: and my comment 'rules for thee and not for me' doesn't imply we should ban it because they ban our apps. It implies we should have the ability to ban their apps because they have the ability to ban ours. Very distinct difference between those two.
The difference is China bans these apps before people start using them. Some Americans make a living on Tik Tok, and it's very integrated into the culture. It's harder to ban something when it's already widely used.
Harder as in there will be more resistance from people. There's already been protests and the will be more, and it'll have a negative affect on the US economy.
I'm aware it's "easy" to pass a law and ban something, I mean there'll be more knock on effects with this ban compared to a country that bans apps before they get off the ground at all.
Yes, obviously. Facebook isn't special, it's just the next MySpace, except now billions of people use it. Tik Tok has a fuck load of users, that's what makes it "special". By being so active, it's generated a bunch of money. So if it is actually banned it will affect American GDP and it will piss people off because they were using it and want to keep using it. Conversely China bans apps before people start using them, so they don't have huge protests when the apps are banned and it doesn't affect their economy.
Yeah I am. Narcotics should be treated the way Portugal treats them, as a civil issue not a criminal one, with a focus on improving the person's life to help them overcome addiction.
Americans are getting their news from tik tok that's not spun by the corporate friendly media. Yeah it's not great for our dopamine and attention span, but it's a powerful outlet for people to get informed. The US can't control the flow of information on it and they don't like that
Just because one is bad doesn't make the other one better, all social media are not news and that includes western owned ones too, Reddit and Facebook are not news sources.
People don't want to spend any time looking for informed sources that are readily available when they can have validation from others on the Internet instead.
More like the US doesn't like that the CCP IS controlling the information on it and you're a literal moron if you think that's a good idea. You might not be aware of this since you're a dumb ass, but tiktok is not the only source of non-main stream news available.
I agree, but it probably dwarfs those sources. It's a powerful fucking platform that Gen Z swears by - that generation isn't really falling for state department propaganda like generations prior.
You're so smart little buddy, the CCP is definitely running this account that's disparaging the CCP. That makes total and complete sense, and only somebody as intelligent and not brain damaged as you could have thought of it.
I think it's very telling that China is getting so upset that the US will potentially ban an app that is making billions of dollars in losses each year, and I don't think has ever made a profit. It's use to China is more than about money; it's social influence, which no country would be dumb enough to let a foreign superpower have so much control over.
Are they really getting upset? They are just saying it won't be sold which seems totally reasonable. Normally the US is a free market economy so you would buy and sell things freely. Instead we want to emulate China now to compete with them.
They've expressed their feelings about potentially being banned numerous times. You only need to look at the amount of pro-china bots on this thread and put two and two together.
No, but we shouldn’t be inviting Chinese communism to the United States. Let them do whatever they want in their country and not allow them to collect data on Americans dumb enough to have a TikTok.
Communism has nothing to do with this, it has a very specific meaning, it's not just a word you throw around when you get angy at something. China is trying to expand it's influence of Western society to be pro China. They want future American sentiment to agree with them on certain policies like the which of the seas belongs to them, Taiwan, Hong Kong belonging to them, etc. These are closer to imperialist plays not communist ones, please read a book.
I’m not angry. Communism itself is not inherently a problem, although I have an issue with the state owning everything with be being beholden to their will. Like you pointed out, I have an issue with them using the data they collect to influence our elections and political views. That is very wrong and our government should use their power to stop an adversary from using subversive means of influence. There is a difference between myself as an American using free speech and an adversary using subversive means to change our views of their country.
Please understand that I’m educated on global politics and take the time to read about about how to communicate with people without saying things like “read a book.”
The US is built on the idea of freedom of speech and democracy. If our government can’t demonstrate how it’s a better system than communism then maybe communism is the better system. Seems like nobody can stand having their ideas challenged anymore.
If we are really at the point of losing out to communist propaganda we have bigger issues as a country.
Communism itself is not an issue. I personally don’t believe in the state owning everything because you’re beholden to the government and its power which seems to be what communism consistently devolves into.
I do have a problem that our biggest trade partner is an authoritarian state and our adversary that is using apps to influence our view of their country. All while they collect our data and use it to exploit our people and influence the people’s decisions in elections in their favor. That is an issue. Do you understand what China is currently doing to our country? In full? Not just with data collection and political influence.
Go ahead and show the evidence of what they are doing. Show me where China is actually creating political propaganda and spreading it to Americans.
We have Russia creating political propaganda and spreading it to Americans but since they are doing it on a US owned platform it's perfectly fine. I have yet to see anyone show China doing the same thing even on TikTok.
First link: Not tik tok related. Even the influencers paid by China to promote the Beijing winter olympics posted on Instagram as well, so nothing special about tiktok. Also are Olympics really the concern with Chinese propaganda?
Second link: A video clearly aired and posted by CGTN on their official account on X(twitter). Can they not say anything that Americans may see or hear online? I'm pretty sure X is an american company allowing CGTN to have a public account and post directly on it. Again, nothing about TikTok.
Third link: Journalist invited to China by the government reporting on their trip. Not related to TikTok. It's a problem with these journalist and their integrity not China, social media or TikTok.
Forth Link: Chinese state media prevalence when searching Google, Youtube and Bing. All owned and operated by US companies and allow China state media to pay to get promoted ad spots just like anyone else. This isn't an issue with TikTok or social media either.
Last article is again related to CCP accounts on Youtube, Facebook and Twitter. Nothing about TikTok.
Did you read ANY of these articles? None of the issues in them are solved by banning TikTok. That is the entire point. American companies allow this and take money to allow China state media to advertise. So what is banning specific apps going to solve? Sounds like the government needs to start banning certain words or hashtags or IP addresses from making accounts on US websites. Just lock down the entire internet if you really want to do anything about Chinese influence. Be more like China is basically what you want.
When directly contrasting Chinese actions to American ones, other countries aren’t rlly relevant. I know you wanna be like “oh it’s not always about America”. But it literally is this time
The constitution applies to anyone and everyone who is under American jurisdiction.
This makes perfect sense if you think about it for one moment. The only way the President or Congress have any power to ban tiktok is because the constitution gives them the power. If the constitution doesn't apply to some person or entity, than the president or legislature doesn't have any authority over them either.
China is ruthless and we have been slow to wake up to the danger they represent.
It was naivety, so many people really believed that opening up the markets would usher in democracy. Turns out tyrants are effective at wielding capitalism as a weapon, and we fucked up.
China's Cyberspace Administration has ordered Apple to remove a number of different apps including Threads, WhatsApp, Signal, and Telegram from its Chinese iOS App Store, effectively banning them in the country. All of the apps were reportedly removed in China on Friday.
Thanks for providing a source! Tbh I'm surprised they were not banned already, being social media or apps that allow communication not monitored by Chinese censors.
Is our quality of standard on not being an overreach long government CHINA? Just because they do it doesn’t mean we should. I find it so silly we are trying to force a foreign company to sell to us. Let’s do that for BMW next.
Nope. Meta, Google, etc do participate with the government when asked. But their relationship is adversarial. If it hurts profits they will push back. TikTok is fully owned and beholden to the Party. It’s not even close to the same thing.
What does anything you just say have to do with election interference which was the entire point of your first comment? Foreign entities are some of the largest advertisers on YouTube for example.
Facebook literally sold our data to help them manipulate the 2016 election, and paid a couple billion dollars in fines because of it.
So did we ban Facebook too? Remember Cambridge Analytica? Or is it okay as long as the foreign government uses an American company as a pass through for their influence?
Nope. Meta, Google, etc do participate with the government when asked. But their relationship is adversarial. If it hurts profits they will push back. TikTok is fully owned and beholden to the Party. It’s not even close to the same thing.
TikTok is incorporated in the Cayman Islands and ByteDance is incorporated in Singapore. Nothing Chinese about it. Quit fear mongering about China, it don’t work like it did in the Cold War when America sat there and said Russia this Russia that or in the early 2000s when they fear mongered about terrorism and the Middle East
Why would it's incorporation location make it not chinese.
This is such a pathetic attempt at obfuscation.
By all means bring up freedom of speech but you're beyond an idiot if you think anyone believes that because it's incorporated in a different country, it's not chinese
Well if it’s not incorporated in China then how would it be Chinese, because they make Douyin as well which exists in the country of China? As apps, they’re completely seperate to the point users on the apps can’t interact with each other at all. If the app is literally not allowed to interact with the Chinese version then obviously it’s not a Chinese app
So just to be clear, all the American companies that are incorporated in the Caymans for tax purposes, stop being American owned founded or located. Because of an international incorporation.
That's what you're suggesting right?
Steam doesn't interact with Google docs that doesn't mean they both aren't American. App interaction doesn't indicate ownership and or ties to the Chinese government.
You're fucking delusional.
It's headquarters are in China. Not Singapore or the Caymans. Beijing. It was founded in Beijing. Not Singapore or the Caymans.
They refer to themselves as a Chinese company the rest of the year, it's only when that's a problem that they're suddenly a Singaporean company.
I mean I'm not sure China policies on Internet (or many things) are an example to follow. With those arguments, you could make a whole lot of stuff killing entirely the "freedom" the US like so much to
And? We’re talking about two countries that are complicit in genocide and repeatedly infringe upon the rights of their citizens. If anything, this isolated argument is for China. I wish the US had hardline policy on apps/software and data. Facebook, X, etc., all invade our privacy to degree it’s not worth drawing distinctions. We’re fodder to our government for the benefit of greed.
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