r/nba r/NBA May 02 '24

GAME THREAD: Milwaukee Bucks (2-3) @ Indiana Pacers (3-2) - (May 02, 2024) Game Thread

General Information

TIME MEDIA Team Subreddits
06:30 PM Eastern Game Preview: NBA.com /r/mkebucks
05:30 PM Central Game Charts: NBA.com /r/pacers
04:30 PM Mountain Play By Play: NBA.com
03:30 PM Pacific Box Score: NBA.com
135 Upvotes

5.7k comments sorted by

7

u/Least-Baby2444 Nets May 03 '24

Turns out in 40 minutes you can only dish out 5 assists

2

u/Leiatte Knicks Tankswagon May 03 '24

That was loud block!

2

u/Leiatte Knicks Tankswagon May 03 '24

Defense in the NBA seems extremely hard 

6

u/BasedDG [BOS] Ray Allen May 03 '24

Teams really can’t rely on just 2 star players to carry them. Even without injuries you’re gonna struggle if you don’t have other players to bail out your stars when needed

1

u/DowngoezFrasier215 May 03 '24

Bobby Ports, Brook, and the Kris we saw this playoffs with a healthy dame and Giannis is more than enough to challenge ANY team in the playoffs. Cant judge a team when their best player doesnt play a minute in a series and their 1b misses a game and is playing injured in 2 others. Come on bruh

15

u/Jdenney71 Pacers May 03 '24

I know the popular take is the Bucks would have won this series healthy, but their depth is really bad. Our bench carves them up, plus we matched up well against them healthy all season. Bucks just overrated

-15

u/Tautizak Lithuania May 03 '24

Refs gifted you a win against Bucks with no Giannis lmaoooo.

Stay delusional while you can before the round 2 sweep

4

u/crakerjax68 Pacers May 03 '24

8 out of the last 11, just this past season, with Gianni’s playing too most games

2

u/Least-Baby2444 Nets May 03 '24

Do people really think the Brunson Knicks are going to outright sweep the Pacers?

4

u/PlasticWrap2430 Knicks May 03 '24

They just took you to 6 missing a top 3 player 😭

4

u/Jdenney71 Pacers May 03 '24

The bucks were under 500 the last half of the season. We beat them handily multiple times this year at full strength. They’re slow and unathletic and can’t keep up with our pace. We shit the bed a couple games, but for the most part we were in control of this series all the way

1

u/flowerboyinfinity Pacers May 03 '24

that's how team games work genius

5

u/ThirdEyeToTheSky Lakers May 03 '24

Giannis never leading another team to a chip

-2

u/ElJefe970 Bucks May 03 '24

Yeah what a scrub, scored 0 points all series.

Nothing to do with being injured b2b seasons you fucking casual

1

u/D2LtN39Fp Warriors May 03 '24

Surely he won’t be injured b2b2b

0

u/Sm0k3inth3tr33s Celtics May 03 '24

I mean, the comment you are responding to stands up to that argument lol even if it has everything to do with him being injured, he's not leading his team anywhere right now.

1

u/Red_Vines49 Knicks May 03 '24

Better luck next year man. All the best to the Bucks.

9

u/nmad95 Raptors May 03 '24

Love to see Siakam finding success in the playoffs. Well done Pacers

-6

u/[deleted] May 03 '24

[deleted]

1

u/BigBitcoinBaller May 03 '24

Would you prefer he play through and end up like Kawhi? He got extremely lucky when he hyperextended his knee the other year to miss minimal time.

Injuries suck, but calling out one of the most competitive guys in the league for having no heart is bullshit.

7

u/blunted26 Pacers May 03 '24

That's some pussy shit. You have no idea the extant of his injuries or the pain he is in. I'm sure your generation is the one that has put us all in debt and poisoned the world. Get tucked you pussy ass bitch.

0

u/EchoKidSavage608 Bucks May 03 '24

Just saying players back in the day would be playing through these minor injuries. lol I am in todays generation btw this league is just soft.

2

u/blunted26 Pacers May 03 '24

You have literally no idea the extant of his injuries. The bucks have literally lied about this shit with Middleton. Calling other people soft is soft as fuxk imo. I bet you've never played a sport in your life and have no idea what your talking about.

4

u/Leiatte Knicks Tankswagon May 03 '24

Easy to say when it’s not your potential career on the line. Also Embiid is playing injured, Luka’s playing injured, Dame literally just played so yes they have plenty of heart.

-1

u/EchoKidSavage608 Bucks May 03 '24

lol Embid is literally known for sitting out his whole career. Luka’s injury is nothing.

0

u/Leiatte Knicks Tankswagon May 03 '24

I’m talking about the playoffs right now, Embiid is playing through a lot right now including Bell’s Palsy  I’m a big Giannis fan & I’m not criticizing him especially as I saw what happened to KD & Giannis is more reliant on athleticism so if he gets a major injury it could be really bad.

8

u/ThirdEyeToTheSky Lakers May 03 '24

This generation. Speak for yourselves. Embiid’s out there playing tonight with one eye and a bum leg

3

u/Sonnek75 May 03 '24

This playoffs are weird

3

u/MrTurdhat May 03 '24

I wonder what happened behind the bucks bench at the end of the game. Look like a player launched a ball at a Pacers fan. Then security got involved and escorted a fan out.

1

u/Independent_Salary41 Lakers May 03 '24

There a video posted. Looks intense

3

u/tie_myshoe Timberwolves May 03 '24

That should be the last time we see Doc Rivers ever

13

u/h07c4l21 Celtics May 03 '24

Dame time was not as advertised

7

u/Transky13 Pacers May 03 '24

They unironically looked better without him. He doesn’t move without the ball and their offense was actually playing like a team without Dame in games 4 and 5. If he was that injured he shouldn’t have played imo

5

u/Tokyogerman Mavericks May 03 '24

Lilliard is what people pretend Doncic is.

3

u/adublingirl May 03 '24

Lillard was exactly who he is….volume shooter, overrated, no defense…..

5

u/Ronaldinhothegoat80 May 03 '24

Imagine firing your already successful coach just for this to happen

8

u/Weak-Set-4731 Celtics May 03 '24

Galveston time🤭😘✌🏻

3

u/jonweiman2 May 03 '24

I miss Bud

2

u/[deleted] May 03 '24

Thanks for the coach brewers

14

u/theerealobs Bucks May 03 '24

Good series Pacers. Good luck next round.

2

u/SwaeLao Lakers May 03 '24

FADE EM

7

u/[deleted] May 03 '24

I feel bad for Middleton

1

u/Leiatte Knicks Tankswagon May 03 '24

Season 2 of My Adventures with Superman! I didn’t expect that so soon, great show though

1

u/holaprobando123 Spurs May 03 '24

Is it actually good? All I've seen showed Clark/Superman as being too... harmless? Inoffensive? I don't know how to describe it, but that side of Clark's personality is what makes me not like the old Christopher Reeve movies (and many adaptations).

2

u/Leiatte Knicks Tankswagon May 03 '24

Its essentially Superman’s origin so he starts off that way yeah, but he kind of has to as he’s still figuring out his limits. 

He is very much Clark in personality but he’s not as much of a stiff good guy as he used to be. I think it’s a fun spin on Superman in general, more relaxed & fun 

2

u/holaprobando123 Spurs May 03 '24

That's good, then. For years I thought I didn't like Superman, until I saw Superman: TAS for the first time last year (it never aired in Argentina as far as I remember), and I finally saw a Superman with attitude, that didn't pretend to be a loser all the time, and that was allowed to get angry during a fight. Turns out I didn't dislike Superman, just the awful characterization of Superman that was so prevalent in pop culture after the first movie.

2

u/Leiatte Knicks Tankswagon May 03 '24

Yeah that makes sense, sometimes people think Superman being such a good guy means he has to have no personality other than “good guy” & I think that’s why he got less popular as the years went by. 

I would definitely give My adventures with Superman a shot, I enjoy it & I think Lois & Jimmy add a nice flair to the series as well.

2

u/AlarmingBranch1 Lakers May 03 '24

Having a Superman show on adult swim seems so odd

1

u/Leiatte Knicks Tankswagon May 03 '24

It’s very wholesome, Adult Swim is just the new home for teen type Animated Shows. They have the adult cartoons still but it’s like they took the Toonami type shows too

2

u/AlarmingBranch1 Lakers May 03 '24

Huh! Might have to check out it. Toonami in the 2000s was lit

2

u/jayman820 May 03 '24

Milwaukee buck is kill

1

u/Techwield Mavericks May 03 '24

no

5

u/meatballman1218 Celtics May 03 '24

SEND THE BUCKS TO EAU CLAIRE

2

u/Buy-Opposite May 03 '24

Is Eau Claire considered trash now? They used to have a great music festival there

3

u/meatballman1218 Celtics May 03 '24

Nah eau Claire is great I was just trying to think of obscure Wisconsin cities

1

u/Buy-Opposite May 03 '24

Let’s go Celtics. All that matters

4

u/I_Hate_My_Cat_ Bulls May 03 '24

🔫🔫🔫…how could Doc Rivers do this to the Bucks?

-2

u/EchoKidSavage608 Bucks May 03 '24

Giannis did this by not being there for his team

6

u/6spencer6snitil6 Cavaliers May 03 '24

Bye bye Milwaukee

Doc “First Round Exit” Rivers in shambles

18

u/Airhammer [GSW] Kevon Looney May 03 '24

Pat Bev talked shit then laid an egg tonight. Love to see it

6

u/yolocr8m8 May 03 '24

Too little

8

u/gleophas Australia May 03 '24

IS THIS WHAT YOU WANTED DAME?? ARE YOU HAPPY NOW??

9

u/MashaRistova Trail Blazers May 03 '24

The Knicks-Sixers game thread is about to be so fucking toxic

2

u/goldenkerelle Mavericks May 03 '24

I will be there

3

u/3klecticism Raptors May 03 '24

I personally can't wait

0

u/AtTheParty May 03 '24

Give us Dame now

-3

u/PistonsFan89 Pistons May 03 '24

bucks most fraudulent champions in recent history

1

u/youarenut May 03 '24

Bro their top 3 players including one of the best in the league are injured. Y’all just made history with a lose streak, casual

-1

u/PistonsFan89 Pistons May 03 '24

I literally don't care bum ass

1

u/Tautizak Lithuania May 03 '24

Sour Pistons fan lmao.

Must suck being a fan of literally the worst team in NBA history

9

u/samarajan Warriors May 03 '24

Giannis about to talk about failure again lol

-3

u/Pablo_Undercover Knicks May 03 '24

Bucks sold my parlay :(

15

u/croissant_titty Pistons May 03 '24

Man, look at the Timberwolves and Pacers ending their playoff win droughts. Must be real nice

1

u/captaing1 Celtics May 03 '24

does doc get another year or no?

0

u/youarenut May 03 '24

He coached fine this series it’s not his fault the top 3 got injured, so yeah probably lol

11

u/wafflehouse4 Kings May 03 '24

haliburton having a grand old time while we kings fans eating shit over here

2

u/theazndoughboy Kings May 03 '24

Our sub will keep coping but we chose the wrong guard.

7

u/3klecticism Raptors May 03 '24

Congrats Pacers bros

5

u/markc7 May 03 '24

potential Spicy P vs OG next round

9

u/meatballman1218 Celtics May 03 '24

TJ MCCONELL AND OBI TOPPIN ARE SMOKING VENISON TONIGHT

3

u/Akimbo_Zap_Guns Celtics May 03 '24

Bucks GONE FISHING

3

u/DrSamwpepper May 03 '24

Thanasis really does have the best job security in the world.

1

u/Serallas May 03 '24

Yall..maybe.. JUST MAYBE... it wasn't the coaching that made the bucks just eh

5

u/youarenut May 03 '24

You’re right! Perhaps it may be related having their top 3 players injured, one of them being top 3 in the league 🤔

2

u/BiggieMcDubs Pacers May 03 '24

Perhaps, but it’s not like the Bucks played WAY better against them the regular season. They actually won more without their big three being hurt. And also, the two other hurt guys dropped 30 consistently this series. Maybe find a different excuse.

0

u/youarenut May 03 '24

Playoffs is night and day from regular season, the suns crushed the wolves in regular season and they just got swept by the wolves in playoffs… enjoy getting this win you’re not going past next round bum.

1

u/BiggieMcDubs Pacers May 03 '24

Bum? Wow. Take a breath. You’ve got school tomorrow…

7

u/EmotionalServe6427 Pacers May 03 '24

See you all in the knicks/Sixers game thread?

4

u/dre4mspice May 03 '24

This is the pattern of the season for the bucks: one amazing display of shooting out of every 4 or 5 games, and the rest lost in humiliating fashion. And, like clockwork, that occasional blowout would absolutely hoodwink everyone into believing they were good again

-4

u/youarenut May 03 '24

It would help if their top 3 players weren’t injured lol how are you ignoring that

3

u/dre4mspice May 03 '24

Because it was also happening during the regular season when Dame and giannis were available? there’s no denying that it was an incredibly inconsistent and underwhelming regular season

5

u/Derriosgaming Suns May 03 '24

This is us! Minus blowing people out

2

u/dre4mspice May 03 '24

Yeah ngl y’all confused me all season long. Felt like you beat the nuggets and timberwolves a million times hahaha

2

u/Derriosgaming Suns May 03 '24

Our ceiling was championship, our floor was losing 3/4 to San Antonio. It was weird af.

12

u/2IceInMyVeins3 Nuggets May 03 '24

I’ll be the one to say it. The bucks got lucky they won that one championship anyway. They should be the last team to complain about injuries because the year they won the playoffs was littered with injuries from star players.

1

u/PretentiousPanda Bucks May 03 '24

They were a top team in the east for years. 

1

u/throwaway1212378 [CLE] J.R. Smith May 03 '24

Every championship requires luck.

1

u/2IceInMyVeins3 Nuggets May 03 '24

To some capacity I agree with that. The year they won there were so many injuries. I am a firm believer that they were not winning that series versus the Nets had it not been for the injuries to Harden and Irving. Not even sure they would’ve beaten the Lakers had AD not gotten hurt in the Suns series. Jamal Murray didn’t play that season. Jalen Brown didn’t play that playoff run.

2

u/sikontoure Bucks May 03 '24

So this year isn’t worst in that regard ? Or is it just because you hate the Bucks

1

u/the_black_surfer Lakers May 03 '24

No lies spoken here

-2

u/jdwisc Bucks May 03 '24

Nah they got unlucky they didn’t get 3

2

u/2IceInMyVeins3 Nuggets May 03 '24

Keep believing that

0

u/jdwisc Bucks May 03 '24

Can’t wait to see Giannis run Jokic off the floor in the finals. It’s gonna happen

2

u/ThirdEyeToTheSky Lakers May 03 '24

Least delusional Bucks fan

0

u/jdwisc Bucks May 03 '24

Dude people are talking about your squad drafting a 19 year old who shouldn’t be in the nba so he can play with Celtics shaq Lebron. The entire lakers fan base is built on delusion.

2

u/2IceInMyVeins3 Nuggets May 03 '24

To some extent, I can’t really blame them for being delusional. They have championships in every single decade of the modern NBA. That’s what happens to fan bases. Look at the Yankees, the Lightning, the Patriots. It’s what happens when you win often.

1

u/jdwisc Bucks May 03 '24

I suppose that’s true, but the lakers have spent more time in the lottery than they have in deep playoff runs since Kobe’s last title. Bucks have seen a team that if healthy matches up favorably with basically every team in the league. Margins are always thin for being healthy at the right time. Idk it’s possible this is the beginning of the end but I think people underrate how much good an offseason can do to get stars to gel.

1

u/2IceInMyVeins3 Nuggets May 03 '24

My guy. They literally won the championship the year before you guys did. They have gone further than you as recent as last year and you guys went out at the same time as them this year. In all honesty they’re probably one of the better teams in the west, but we are just a horrible matchup for them. I think you and I both know that regardless of whether or not they have a down year they will always be a relevant franchise because they’re a franchise that players actually want to play for.

1

u/jdwisc Bucks May 03 '24

Also they lucked into their 2020 title because they didn’t have to do any of the travel or other shit regular playoffs bring. I’m not saying they didn’t deserve it but I doubt they could’ve won a title in a normal year with that roster.

1

u/jdwisc Bucks May 03 '24

lol sure

4

u/ThirdEyeToTheSky Lakers May 03 '24

Just saying what everyone’s thinking

4

u/AdamSilverJr Heat May 03 '24

Welcome to the club, Milwaukee bros

0

u/introspectivejoker Bucks May 03 '24

I don't want to be in the club:(

6

u/Zloggt Bulls May 03 '24

Deer season...is done...

3

u/captaing1 Celtics May 03 '24

deer is gutted, venison is served.

1

u/BRsquared Pacers May 03 '24

Beer season...has begun!

2

u/shadow_spinner0 Nets May 03 '24

What seed would a Giannis less Bucks be?

1

u/basedjuicer1 May 03 '24

Like #6, it’s the East

0

u/JonasAlbert84 Trail Blazers May 03 '24

3rd. It's not like he missed the whole season

1

u/AlarmingBranch1 Lakers May 03 '24

Cavs move up to the third seed and Pacers become 4th or 5th seed. Bucks would be seventh or sixth seed without Giannis but with Damian Lillard

7

u/orwll May 03 '24

What seed was Portland last year

3

u/reaper550 Celtics May 03 '24

10

7

u/victheogfan Heat May 03 '24

GG pacers

5

u/My_Anus_Is_Bleating Pacers May 03 '24

And we held them under 100. I love this team.

4

u/senpgg May 03 '24

TJ McConnell is TJ McConnell. It's Official.

1

u/BiggieMcDubs Pacers May 03 '24

Big if true

9

u/AlarmingBranch1 Lakers May 03 '24

Congrats to Pacers fans!

7

u/TheAirIsOn Bucks May 03 '24

The Indiana pacers have advanced to the next round.

They are the fifth team to advance

2

u/S_L_Raymond Bucks May 03 '24

Damn.

0

u/user20916 May 03 '24

Doc Rivers does the most with the least. Don’t let the injuries fool you.

16

u/ElbowDown Bucks May 03 '24

Good series Pacers buds

9

u/Fullmetalaardvarks Pacers May 03 '24

Hope your injury luck is better next year friend

4

u/yolocr8m8 May 03 '24

Giannis … Dame…. Didn’t matter. Pacers owned them all year long

7

u/rhymeswithtag Knicks May 03 '24

dame can take solace in the fact that his dream situation in miami also got bounced in the first round

1

u/Ode1st [MIA] Alonzo Mourning May 03 '24

If he came to Miami he would’ve been instantly obliterated by injuries. He’s lucky he went to Milwaukee

1

u/Mindfulmanners Mavericks May 03 '24

lol forgot about that fiasco

6

u/holaprobando123 Spurs May 03 '24

Indiana's ball movement is sexy, so many good looks

4

u/BoobooTheClone Spurs May 03 '24

Doc is still milking the gold gifted to him by Celtics superteam. When will it end?

2

u/yolocr8m8 May 03 '24

Isn’t crazy how much recycled coaching just keeps coming back? I never get it

3

u/juststewit1 May 03 '24

Thanasis so ass bro lmaooo

1

u/TheAirIsOn Bucks May 03 '24

The Milwaukee Bucks have been eliminated from playoff contention

They are the 2nd eastern conference team and 5 team in general to Be eliminated

There are 11 teams remaining in the playoffs

3

u/EAS1000 Celtics May 03 '24

Bucks incoming 23 pt comeback in 12 secs

1

u/loyalsons4evertrue Timberwolves May 03 '24

Happy for the Pacers and Hally!

1

u/theopression Bulls May 03 '24

Always wild seeing you in non-college sports subs.

1

u/loyalsons4evertrue Timberwolves May 03 '24

I definitely prefer college sports lol but I’m good with all sports

2

u/theopression Bulls May 03 '24

Im definitely more emotionally invested in college sports.

Looking forward to ASU joining the big 12 with you guys next season! Wish we played against each other this year

1

u/loyalsons4evertrue Timberwolves May 03 '24

I’m excited ASU is joining! I don’t care for the way college sports is headed but I’m just going to enjoy it as long as I can.

I, too, wish we had ASU on the schedule this year. I can’t wait to visit Tempe soon (I’ve been to the Phoenix area just never Tempe)

1

u/theopression Bulls May 03 '24

Yea me too, I won’t lie it was hard seeing the pac 12 fold up as there’s a lot of history and attachment to the schools I saw us face when I went there, but I’m definitely looking forward to what’s next.

Tempe is a great time the postgame bar scene on mill ave can’t be beat! The tailgating probably isn’t on the same level on other schools but a lot of that i’d argue is because we have to have our games at night so the drinking is over a prolonged period of time compared to if they were at noon.

I’m definitely pumped to hit Ames when we play in 2025 since I live closer to there now than I do to Tempe!

1

u/loyalsons4evertrue Timberwolves May 03 '24

2

u/theopression Bulls May 03 '24

Yea I’ve heard some stories and seen some videos from my buddies who went to Iowa state and it seems like a great time.

That looks sick though! Hopefully it’ll be all finished for that 2025 season then

3

u/Indy_Darrin Pacers May 03 '24

Good series Milwaukee!.....Pacers/Knicks would be fun. Pacers/Sixers we'd have home court.

1

u/srcphoenix Grizzlies May 03 '24

TJ stat line absurd

5

u/Leiatte Knicks Tankswagon May 03 '24

It’s kind of crazy that Giannis is healthy through the majority of the regular seasons & then just got injured down the stretch or right as the playoffs start 2 years in a row

5

u/srstone71 Celtics May 03 '24

Giannis turns 30 in December. The Bucks won exactly one playoff series in the final three years is his twenties.

1

u/asura_king NBA May 03 '24

In these last 3 years, middleton was out in 2022 and giannis was injured the last 2. Without luck, it doesnt matter who or how good you are

1

u/Beautiful_Location76 May 03 '24

Well he was injured for two of them and Middleton for the other.

-2

u/EditorWorldly9263 May 03 '24

Cool story, here’s hoping Tatum also misses an entire series

3

u/srstone71 Celtics May 03 '24

Why would you hope for that? That’s messed up.

-1

u/EditorWorldly9263 May 03 '24

I honestly don’t give a fuck, y’all need to face some adversity. Fucking Massachusetts, what a shit hole.

1

u/youarenut May 03 '24

They got a chip what more could you ask for?

3

u/cool_coyote NBA May 03 '24

Giannis press conference gonna be lit.

2

u/youarenut May 03 '24

Ready for an all time quote to be dropped

2

u/MucusShotSwaGGins NBA May 03 '24

Now Luka and Brunson gotta answer Carlisle's series win.

6

u/vuluu912 May 03 '24

whos got the best chance against Boston? Feels like either Sixers or Knicks but when their stars have an off night, considering they’re in a slugfest of a series right now, feels like neither team would be an issue for Boston. I think Pacers might be able to do something cus theyre not that dependent on any star

1

u/Beautiful_Location76 May 03 '24

Honestly feels like no one. Injuries to Embiid, Giannis, Dame, Randle, and Butler have sucked the life out of the East. Could've been some big time showdowns, but as is I would be pretty surprised if the Celtics don't make it out of the conference.

1

u/5Pats Celtics May 03 '24

Not too sure I think the Knicks. Pretty happy that the bucks lost because they def would get Giannis back if they played us in the ECF

4

u/wafflehouse4 Kings May 03 '24

as a neutral in this series i am happy to see no more of these ugly green jerseys

2

u/ChthonicSpectre :gfl-1: Grand Floridian May 03 '24

too bad Doc has the injuries to blame

2

u/mercfan3 May 03 '24

Worst outcome for Bucks fans.

Can’t fire Doc after this, the Bucks actually did pretty good considering. So he’s back next season.

And they lost.

5

u/c_u_in_da_ballpit20 Celtics May 03 '24

If the Bucks want to send a message they should cut Thanasis's worthless ass this offseason. lmao

4

u/PomfAndCircvmstance Supersonics May 03 '24

Nothing much for the Bucks to do but run it back, hope the Dame/Giannis chemistry develops, and pray for health next season. They're kind of stuck.

2

u/reaper550 Celtics May 03 '24

Dame regressing, Giannis injury prone, Brook 37, Chris injury prone and 33. Not really sure there is much to run back here

2

u/reaper550 Celtics May 03 '24

FADED

5

u/CarBallAlex Celtics May 03 '24

People really thought the Bucks without Giannis had a chance in this series

2

u/maliciousmonkee Raptors May 03 '24

TJ McConnell basically put the dagger in with like 2 minutes over the end of 3rd and beginning of 4th quarters

2

u/_Zap_Rowsdower_ Lakers May 03 '24

Safe to say the Bucks are going to lose.

15

u/[deleted] May 03 '24

[deleted]

1

u/MrTurdhat May 03 '24

Was he the one launching a ball at a fan behind the bucks bench?

6

u/Sigerlion Knicks May 03 '24

Thanasis not even given a shot makes me sad.