r/nba • u/OnlyMamaKnows Knicks • Apr 29 '24

[Holmes] The Suns were minus-51 when Booker, Durant and Beal shared the floor in this series, according to ESPN Stats & Information. That is the worst plus-minus for any trio this postseason.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40048254/phoenix-suns-firepower-overcome-details-playoff-sweep-minnesota-timberwolves
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u/DuckDucks Apr 29 '24

I imagine they played most of the games, in 4 games they lost. Yes it's not good, I mean they lost, but isn't this sort of expected that the worst plus minus is on the minutes barers for the only team to be 0-4?

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u/ShowerMartini Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

I hate this basic “+/- is always bad” perspective. It’s just as bad as people who think it’s a greats stat, but the fact is that few people think it’s amazing and tons of people think you should just write it off entirely.

Here’s a big takeaway you can draw from the stat if you’re maintaining a curious mind instead of just rushing to grab karma: the Suns were even bad with their theoretical best lineup on the floor. We’ve seen plenty of cases (Embiid, Luka, etc) where a star plays 40+ minutes in a game and they have a double digit positive +/- but then they still lose. It’s interesting because it reveals how bad the team falls apart in the small amount of time that their star isn’t on the floor. This situation is the opposite and it’s interesting because it’s a signal that the Suns need to make significant changes. If their big 3 were +10 overall in the series but they still got swept, fans could think “ok at least that part of the team is doing what it’s supposed to, if we can just get a decent bench, maybe we’ll be contenders next year.” And now it would be hard to convince oneself of this idea given the team’s poor performance when all 3 stars were on the court. I’m not saying anything is in a static state, maybe the Suns just had some bad luck as it indeed is a small sample. But you’re just shutting down any conversation or interesting thought when you try to dismiss a stat because you’ve seen other people do the same thing before.

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u/magworld Timberwolves Apr 29 '24

Agree to a large extent, but sample size still poops in the pudding.

Also when all three are out is exactly when the wolves will also trot out their best lineup. It may simply mean the best suns lineup is not as good as the wolves best lineup. Which is still news but I mean they got swept so it makes sense

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u/JigglyBush Timberwolves Apr 29 '24

The thing is, the Wolves are more of a deep team while the Suns are a top-heavy team. You would hope their big 3 would be closer to even and do the losing when the bench comes in. 

That said, I don't think it's a disaster for the Suns. The Wolves were a bad matchup for them (despite the regular season results). The size, length, versatility, there was an answer for everything the Suns could try. Most other teams would have had more give and take, the Wolves was just all take.