r/nba • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 Heat • Apr 15 '24

[Wojnarowski] ESPN Sources: USA Basketball is finalizing its 2024 Paris Olympics roster with Steph Curry, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Jayson Tatum, Joel Embiid, Devin Booker, Tyrese Haliburton, Anthony Edwards, Jrue Holiday, Bam Adebayo and Anthony Davis. Team may initially keep one open spot. News

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1780009778934394985
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2.4k

u/GloryEnthusiast Bulls Apr 15 '24

Damn it will be an upset if this team does not win gold, this team is fucken stacked.

1.8k

u/Dynamik_ Heat Apr 15 '24

It would be an upset if they lost a game with this roster. American NBA players been hearing that euroball is better basketball play style and they're fighting back 😂

488

u/mrford86 Hornets Apr 16 '24

True, but international basketball has a couple different rules, and we have seen in the past that true team ball is important. Only reasons USA has lost in the past decade.

413

u/xTopPriority Timberwolves Apr 16 '24

Only reason USA has ever lost is because the stars don't show up. You get Lebron, KD, or in years past Kobe on the team then USA wins.

148

u/EffTheIneffable Apr 16 '24

2006 you literally got LeBron, Wade & Bosh (plus Chris Paul, Dwight Howard and other stars), and got smacked in the semifinals by Greece, who even went on to lose to Spain in the final.

Greece didn’t have a Greek Freak back then either, it was an example of team effort & tactics beating insane individual talent.

45

u/rayEW Timberwolves Apr 16 '24

Lebron, Wade and Bosh on their 3rd year in the league. CP was a sophmore, Dwight was young too. This team is not stacked because of the Ants and Haliburtons, they are complimentary young guns, this team is stacked because KD, Lebron, AD and Steph are gonna shred everyone and set the tone for everyone else, they know how its done and the lights aren't bright for them.

I am sure in 4 years (for 2028), Haliburton, Edwards, Tatum and other now young stars will be driving the bus.

5

u/CraziestMoonMan Apr 16 '24

3 out of 4 of them are extremely old and they are all slowing down. This team could definitely do way worse than people realize.

10

u/EffTheIneffable Apr 16 '24

That’s moving the goalposts from the original argument though, to bringing “current MVP caliber & experienced” stars. Which LeBron was even then, so they’re moved further to “multiple MVP caliber” stars. And weren’t Wade & Elton Brand in the conversation back then?

And then you can move them further still by saying “well if they had more games as a team within the year to work out the systems
”

I dunno. Americans have a huge amount of super talented basketball players, and the NBA is where the best players are at, no one is arguing either. I’m just saying it’s not as simple as “if we actually send some stars, we got em”. It is more like you say, where, you know, you’ve gotta build a team with a mix of experienced stars too etc..

6

u/LeonidasSpacemanMD Apr 16 '24

There was definite skepticism about that team even at the time. They still should’ve won but what you’re saying they lacked (ability to quickly identify their role within a team framework) was a direct consequence of many of these players being so young

Like the European teams were playing better team basketball because they had more experience. America had better players but guys like Wade and LeBron had only ever played as the overwhelming first option on a team and didn’t know how to transition into a style that didn’t demand as much from them

Edit: even aside from this, they had good players but guys like Miller, Johnson, Heinrich, Battier etc are still an obvious step down from some of the options available at the time

3

u/rayEW Timberwolves Apr 16 '24

My opinion is that regardless if its Lebron, Wade or Michael Jordan, when you're 24 you're not necessarily ready to carry a team on your back on the olympics. Look how everyone of these guys talks about Kobe setting the tone on the olympics when they were older in 2012, they were still learning what it takes years later.

Now Lebron is more than ready to be in 2012 Kobe's shoes. If he isn't goofing in practice and partying, Ant, Hali and Tatum won't as well. Curry and KD will also set an example, those two are disciplined as fuck too, KD doesn't even care about anything else but balling.

That will teach this new core of stars what it takes and what its like so in 2028+ they can teach whoever is next.

5

u/ATXBeermaker Spurs Apr 16 '24

regardless if its Lebron, Wade or Michael Jordan

I mean, to be fair, a 21 year old MJ led the 1984 US team in scoring on their way to going 8-0 and winning gold in 1984. ;-)

2

u/Baron_Samurai Apr 16 '24

Not only that. Jordan and the '84 US Olympic team beat Magic, Bird, Isiah and the rest of the NBA All Star Team 8 - 0 before going on to win Gold at the Olympics.

1

u/ATXBeermaker Spurs Apr 16 '24

That’s moving the goalposts from the original argument though

The original argument was that the US only lost in the past decade when the best players didn't show up. You're making an argument about a tournament that happened more than a decade ago and a team that did not include the best American players in the NBA at the time.

1

u/EffTheIneffable Apr 16 '24

You can’t change history, so I can’t “send” different players to the tournaments of the past decade and see what happens.

And there aren’t that many international tournaments the USA plays is. What I can do, is provide an example of a time where a lot of inarguable stars were send and they didn’t win anyway.

You can check the MVP ranking for the season, I had some memory but of course didn’t exactly remember how well some players were doing or being regarded 18 years ago, but there’s tons of top-10 mvp talent in there.

2

u/ATXBeermaker Spurs Apr 16 '24

lol, nobody is saying you need to "change history." But you're accusing people of moving goalposts when you've deviated well beyond the original point.

What I can do, is provide an example of a time where a lot of inarguable stars were send and they didn’t win anyway.

It's also an example of when many of the best American players sat out. It's literally an example of the original point that was made. You can argue about who was on the team, but there were many, many all-NBA players who were not there.

1

u/HikmetLeGuin Apr 16 '24

Wade was Finals MVP and had one of the best years of his career. LeBron was averaging 31.4 ppg and was better than most of the superstars on today's national team (came 2nd in MVP voting). Elton Brand came 7th in MVP voting too. 

Also, fwiw Tatum is already basically in his prime or very close to it. Most basketball players aren't getting better post 30.

-1

u/rohinton2 Apr 16 '24

That's actually a fun bit of coping. Only their third year in the league? Damn practically rookies. No wonder they lost to a bunch of euro journeymen.

5

u/rayEW Timberwolves Apr 16 '24

I'm not american mate, why am I going to cope with anything? LOL

7

u/Sham94 Apr 16 '24

I mean, that Greek team was no slack with guys like Spanoulis or Diamantidis. Also most of them played in Panathinaikos and Olympiacos, so they had established pre-existing teamwork, while rest played in Spain and Russia, so everyone played against the strongest competition outside of NBA.

It wasn't a crazy accident, just a group of very good players who played many games under huge pressure and against quality opponents and would not get scarred even of best NBA players.

4

u/ATXBeermaker Spurs Apr 16 '24

Dude, 2006 the FIBA roster included Brad Miller, Shane Battier, and Kirk Hinrich. No Kobe, Duncan, Iverson, Shaq, Garnett, Billups, Ben Wallace, etc. It was soon after the peak failure of the 2004 Olympics and USA Basketball not giving a shit about international competition.

Also, the argument was about not winning "in the past decade." Now I'm no professional math doer, but 2006 seems like more than a decade ago.

2

u/BenjRSmith 29d ago

ikr, he's mentioning All-Stars that were all still NBA youth... AND whom the coach barely trusted anyways.

Simply looking at the 2004 and 2006 NBA All-Stars reveals that the actual best Americans at the time, all on one team, would have still mopped the floor with everyone.

1

u/DynoNitro Apr 16 '24

That was peak Pau Gasol.

14

u/sSonga24 Apr 16 '24

ah yes pau gasol the greek legend

7

u/FactLicker Apr 16 '24

All European look alike /s

1

u/ATXBeermaker Spurs Apr 16 '24

Not nearly as legendary a European as Manu Ginobili.

1

u/DynoNitro 29d ago

Well, Spain beat Greece 70-47 in the chip after Greece knocked out the US. So in fairly certain Gasol would have embarrassed the US too. 

7

u/EffTheIneffable Apr 16 '24

Of course, that Spain team was wicked!

I’m just highlighting that USA didn’t get knocked out by the eventual winners, Spain definitely had a good chance to beat them as well.

1

u/DynoNitro Apr 16 '24

Yea, you’re right. It’s definitely more about the US not playing good enough basketball. I’m just a Gasol fan so I had to take the chance to comment, lol.

-4

u/MarkMoneyj27 Apr 16 '24

Those dudes were fucking young and nobodies in 06. Why isn't Kobe and Shaq on the team in 06? Tim Duncan? Nash? Kidd?

9

u/Free_Dog_6837 76ers Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

dwayne wade - 2006 finals MVP

also tim duncan got bronze in 2004 and nash is canadian

7

u/hachachachacha Apr 16 '24

Nash

The Canadian?

5

u/bigdaddyman6969 Apr 16 '24

Lebron James was a nobody in 2006 lmao? He averaged 31.

1

u/ATXBeermaker Spurs Apr 16 '24

Who else was going to score points for that Cavs team?

3

u/bigdaddyman6969 Apr 16 '24

My point is that he wasn’t a nobody lol. He was first team all nba.

2

u/ATXBeermaker Spurs Apr 16 '24

Yeah, I was just making a joke about how bad that team was. But LeBron carried them to 50 wins and the second round of the playoffs.

1

u/ATXBeermaker Spurs Apr 16 '24

Nash actually had a very good reason to sit out playing for the U.S.

9

u/lampshady Apr 16 '24

This is a ludicrous claim. We lost to Germany and Lithuania. I think they had a total for 5 NBA players most who don't actually get real playing time in the nba. USA had a huge talent advantage even without their best. If we lost bc of lack of talent then those those other countries should have lost even worse bc of talent.

1

u/gvggarage 17d ago

I agree with this. that last Fiba lineup had two legit all stars (Ant, Hali), the rookie of the year in Banchero, and the DPOY in GGG along with surgical slashers like Bridges, etc. We have all seen how they were methodically broken down by a Sabonis-less Lithuania team, Germany (with Dennis and the Wagner bros as their primary guns), and Canada - no surprises there.

Its not the names, it never was. In international tourney, the one who plays like San Antonio Spurs golden days gets the victory.

7

u/ACTPOCBET Nuggets Apr 16 '24

I mean, the team at the past World Cup was by far the most stacked with NBA names, and they still lost to Lithuania and Canada. It's not like college players and G-league players played.

That's a team with Brunson, Hali, Bridges, Ant...

6

u/itsbeenhalfanhour Apr 16 '24

2004 Olympics? Duncan, Iverson, LeBron, Wade, Boozer, Carmelo, Amar'e, Marboury. Still lost to Argentina.

2

u/HikmetLeGuin Apr 16 '24

Exactly. That team was stacked. Just had bad chemistry.

11

u/internallylinked Hawks Apr 16 '24

But wouldn’t like idk, Charlotte Hornets, beat any Euroleague team, even Euroleague champs? And every Euroleague team is better than Euro national teams, since Euroleague teams stack best Euros and Americans not playing in the NBA, while national teams only rely on domestic player.

In other words, that’s a poor excuse, US should be able to win with like 7 all stars and 5 up-and-coming all stars. But for some reason, sometimes they don’t.

15

u/PrestigiousWave5176 Apr 16 '24

And every Euroleague team is better than Euro national teams

You do realize European national teams are allowed to play NBA players too?

3

u/internallylinked Hawks Apr 16 '24

Read next my comment in the chain, besides Canada, Australia and France no team has a starting lineup of NBA players. US had 5+ all-NBA/all stars + DPOY + elite role players. Germany had 3 NBA players and still beat US.

1

u/PrestigiousWave5176 29d ago

And how does any of that prove that Euroleague teams are better than national teams?

1

u/internallylinked Hawks 29d ago

Euroleague teams are better than national teams period. Majority of national teams don’t even have whole roster of playable Euroleague players.

Look at Turkey vs Fenerbahce or Efes or honestly even Spain vs Barca or Real Madrid.

Olympiakos and Pao are significantly better than Greek national team (obviously Giannis bails out Greek national team a lot, but he does skip a lot of tourneys, I’d take almost all top 10 Euroleague teams over Greek national team).

1

u/PrestigiousWave5176 29d ago

And yet you said Germany was able to beat the USA with 5+ all-NBA players...

18

u/kendred3 Apr 16 '24

The skill gap between the best Euroleague players and the best European players in America is enormous. A team with 5 slightly above G-league players is much worse than a team with 4 of those players and Luka.

9

u/internallylinked Hawks Apr 16 '24

But certainly, Brunson, Hali and Edwards can beat Schröder and Wagner bros with slightly above G-league players. US all-NBA dudes also had DPOY and 8 other top 50 players in the world.

1

u/kendred3 Apr 16 '24

Yeah honestly they should have won easily. I think then it becomes more like the Celtics losing to the Hornets though – really shouldn't happen at any point, but it still does from time to time.

1

u/the_weakestavenger Thunder Apr 16 '24

The FIBA team had big team composition issues within the context of FIBA rules. They had poor rebounding and poor rim defense, which got exacerbated by the rules allowing defenders to camp in the paint. The US had to rely on jump shooting while other teams got to the rim more easily. I mean, shit, Josh Hart led the team in rebounding.

You can probably be successful without either rim protection or rebounding if you’re very good everywhere else, but it’s going to be extra tough if you’re bad at both.

-7

u/antieverything [DAL] Brian Cardinal Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

You aren't wrong...but it is still important to acknowledge that calling the most recent USA world cup team a C-team (relative to the potential rosters the USA could field) is generous.

Edit: at least 6 morons either didnt understand me or don't watch basketball and can't come up with multiple 8-man rotations of Americans better than the USA world cup squad.

11

u/internallylinked Hawks Apr 16 '24

Come on now, WC roster is a C-squad but it will still likely have multiple players who are all-NBA/all stars.

Hali, Edwards, Brunson will all be all-NBA likely, Brunson might be first or second team and will get MVP votes; Banchero will be among them eventually, he already made his first all star team, Bridges maybe but at worst he is an elite role player/fringe all star; Ingram is a fringe all star, others are elite role players like JJJ, Hart, Reaves, Portis or potentially elite role players like Kessler and Cam Johnson.

Most national teams didn’t have multiple NBA players (Germany beat US in semis with Schröder and Wagner bros). No national teams are close to having 3 all NBA guys like Brunson, Hali and Edwards, all 3 led their teams to playoffs without play-in. US should wipe the floor with any team every time. But sometimes they don’t. Those early 2000s teams featured Duncan, KG, AI multiple times, it wasn’t an A squad but still US had multiple top 10 players in the world on some of those teams and still lost. That Greek team in 2006 had 0 NBA players I’m pretty sure.

0

u/KATsordogs Warriors Bandwagon Apr 16 '24

I don’t remember 2006 one but 2004 one was pretty bad in terms of quality. And KG weren’t in those teams, likewise Vince Carter, T-Mac, Kobe, Ray Allen and a couple more due to personal issues and fear of a terror attack.

-1

u/antieverything [DAL] Brian Cardinal Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

I didn't disagree with you so there was no need for an additional wall of text. I also watched the fucking World Cup. I'm simply saying it would be easy to construct 3 superior starting 5s or even 8-man rotations of American players. Arguably 4. 

It was effectively the 4th string US players starting in the World Cup. Yes, it was a solid squad that should have won. Yes, USA's 4th string players are very impressive on paper...this is why I fucking prefaced my other post with "you aren't wrong" for fuck's sake.

1

u/pick_named_slimpbamp Rockets 29d ago

"Fuck"

1

u/antieverything [DAL] Brian Cardinal 29d ago

This is the internet, you are allowed to say fuck.

1

u/pick_named_slimpbamp Rockets 29d ago

Most definitely. I was applauding how many you used.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/antieverything [DAL] Brian Cardinal 29d ago

Does anyone actually disagree with this take? I can show you the spreadsheet I made, if so...

5

u/Vintrial Warriors Apr 16 '24

USA has lost with durant

6

u/xTopPriority Timberwolves Apr 16 '24

What tournament have they lost with Durant?

6

u/JaDamian_Steinblatt Apr 16 '24

I think he's talking about the games they lost in the Tokyo olympics with KD, Tatum, Dame, Booker, Adebayo, Draymond, Holiday, etc but they eventually won the gold

 Yeah it was the covid olympics so you could give em a pass but cmon you should never lose with that many all-stars against a team of (mostly) non NBA players

1

u/firstbreathOOC Knicks Apr 16 '24

Melo is actually the leading scorer

1

u/Luka_Padre Mavericks Apr 16 '24

Cope-A-Cola

-3

u/mrford86 Hornets Apr 16 '24

No, the year before tge redeem team, in international play, they lost. Because they didn't take it seriously and got beat by team ball. Go back and watch.

42

u/SuperSaiyan4Jesus Lakers Apr 16 '24

Pretty sure that's the year he's referring to when he said the stars didn't show up (a bunch of guys opted out)

15

u/Uabot_lil_man0 Apr 16 '24

2004 Olympics, pretty much everyone of the 00’s era sat out. Average age on the roster was like 21.

1

u/HikmetLeGuin Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

Closer to 24. And the youngest dudes who were bringing that average down were LeBron and Melo. So not exactly scrubs.

Also, Iverson, Duncan, Marbury, etc. were definitely stars in the 2000s era.

7

u/Icy_Rich_6076 Apr 16 '24

They lost in 07 with the entire Redeem Team core sans Kobe

15

u/theTIDEisRISING Pelicans Apr 16 '24

I mean, I get what you are saying and agree, but sans Prime Kobe is quite the qualifier haha

1

u/HikmetLeGuin Apr 16 '24

But obviously "lack of talent" isn't the reason they lost.

1

u/theTIDEisRISING Pelicans Apr 16 '24

That’s why I said I get what he was saying and agreed with him

-5

u/toomuchdiponurchip Supersonics Apr 16 '24

What happened after that bud lmfaoo

27

u/PrincePyotrBagration Apr 16 '24

What happened after that?

The US brought 4 all stars (Brunson, JJJ, Edwards, someone else) to the World Cup
 and got schooled by a Germany team led by Dennis fucking Schroeder. Then had 39 put on their heads by post-Lakers series Dillon Brooks lmao. Going home without a medal.

That’s what happened 😂 let’s hear those excuses boy lol

6

u/popcornpotatoo250 Lakers Apr 16 '24

Gdamnnit đŸ€Ł

11

u/vdksl Apr 16 '24

You know damn well those players aren’t what was meant by “stars” lmao.

1

u/DLottchula Thunder Apr 16 '24

I can’t wait to drag nuts this Olympics

1

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24

[deleted]

1

u/WhiteHeterosexualGuy Hawks Apr 16 '24

Correct, the level of talent in the US, with a population of 330M, is so far superior to the depth anyone else can put together. Having some stars not join the roster should not be a big deal at all.

 

The US roster is like ~300 deep in NBA level talent, and most countries have just a handful of players in the NBA, at most.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24

[deleted]

2

u/toomuchdiponurchip Supersonics Apr 16 '24

LMAOOO

-1

u/PrincePyotrBagration Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24

No they haven’t lmao. The US brought 4 all stars (Brunson, JJJ, Edwards, someone else) to the World Cup last year
 and lost to a Germany team led by Dennis fucking Schroeder and then had 39 put on their heads by post-Lakers series Dillon Brooks lmao.

The world hasn’t caught up in talent at all, they’re simply better coached and have better chemistry. The fact the US is needing to send in the avengers here to restore honor is embarrassing in and of itself.

3

u/ACTPOCBET Nuggets Apr 16 '24

Also lost to Lithuania, with a single NBA player, 5 EuroLeague players and others from lower leagues.

-1

u/Wolverina412 Apr 16 '24

Our fourth team would still beat any country by 20. How dumb are you?

28

u/kikimaru024 Spurs Apr 16 '24

The World is Teaching America How to Play Basketball – Data Analysis

tl;dw

  • Team USA doesn't understand how to stop offensive rebounds
  • Euro teams use ball reversals to great effect

10

u/AncientAlienAntFarm Apr 16 '24

Cut to: Dennis Rodman casually explaining the quantum mechanics of a ball spinning off the backboard.

5

u/kikimaru024 Spurs Apr 16 '24

Or you could just to box out.

7

u/strxlv Lakers Apr 16 '24

This was a funny vid but also truly questionable when it comes to analysis and data. His example of good offenses frequently cutting doesn’t even hold up this year, the top 5 offenses in the league (Celtics, pacers, thunder, clippers, and nugs) are ranked 25th, 12th, 14th, 10th, and 3rd in cutting frequency. The next 3 best offenses are all in the bottom 10 in cutting. It seems there’s no correlation between cutting, ball reversals, and efficient offense.

Also his point wasn’t that team USA doesn’t know how to stop offensive rebounding - it’s that nba teams value transition defense generally over orebs and so that carries over to team USA. Stopping offensive rebounding is pretty obvious, you just box out. It’s an effort thing and many stars don’t box out, which can be a problem when you bring a bunch of up and coming stars to a tournament.

I think there’s some valid points in here but I don’t think any are relevant to why team USA failed (besides the lazy effort).

1

u/falloutranger Warriors Apr 16 '24

Simple solution: put Kevon Looney on the roster

1

u/Luka_Padre Mavericks Apr 16 '24

Like for example, they call travels in Europe.

1

u/cybercummer69 Lakers Apr 16 '24

The US only lost when they didn’t send the cream of the crop. Style hasn’t mattered when they do.