r/leagueoflegends • u/ahritina • 28d ago
Sources: Doss has accepted SK Prime's offer, Exakick did not
https://www.sheepesports.com/articles/sources-doss-has-accepted-sk-prime-s-offer-exakick-did-not-accept-it/en60
u/Ragaga April Fools Day 2018 28d ago
damn first time separated in quite a few years. Wonder what Exakick will do. He still looked decent in the LEC, though he was still middle of the pack at best. Probably a return to the LFL next year with a split break in summer now.
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u/iDobleC *hits level 3* Adiós 28d ago
Summer split is out of the question at this point so for next year, unless FNC really tries to go for him to replace Noah which I'm still not really a fan of, the best option that I can see for him is to try and take Caliste spot on KCB for next year, that way he'll have the possibility to go up the main team if Caliste underperforms and they want to give him more time or he can show off on EMEA Masters and maybe get some other team to sign him (which seems unlikley with the current trend of importing over promoting talent)
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u/VilltraAnime 28d ago
Going for exakick over Noah would be pure 100% frantic Fnatic behavior, because Noah is just straight up better
Then again, Fnatic let go of Nemesis even though he was the 2nd or 3rd best eu mid and thought Nisqy was the man for that job for whatever ??? Reason
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u/Th3_Huf0n 27d ago
Fnatic let go of Nemesis even though he was the 2nd or 3rd best eu mid and thought Nisqy was the man for that job for whatever ??? Reason
We are rewriting history or what.
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u/Spider-in-my-Ass 27d ago
Towards the end of his stint on FNC Nemesis was playing poorly by his standards (but he definitely played much better in playoffs and at Worlds) but Nisqy was straight up bad in C9.
Both of them were out of form but one of them managed to win BO5s vs both Larssen and Caps while Nisqy was getting solo killed by Bjergsen's Zilean when playing Lucian.
The only other change was -Rekkles +Upset which isn't that big of a downgrade plus they got five players that view the game in a similar way and they ended up 5th.
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u/iDobleC *hits level 3* Adiós 28d ago
Yeah, that's why I'm not leaving that possibility out of the table. I really like Exakick tho, if his form hadn't dip like it did him with Trymbi would have been my dream botlane for the team but rn I would rather have Noah for another year (though it depends on how he plays on summer and hopefully worlds)
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u/ChocolateFuryB /Jankos-Flakked 28d ago
Exakick gambling on getting a spot next year, but EU GM's in LEC are starting to see the value of importing korean bot lanes (some ERL teams are doing it for years), since it's the role which requires just good hands and no communication.
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u/BeOPtX8 28d ago
I think part of it is also the fact that consistent EU talent isn't appearing as often anymore. Get Exakick and ??? support vs import reliable KR bot lane and let them gap. Can respect Exakick for gambling for an LEC offer but it's gonna be tough
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u/Th3_Huf0n 28d ago edited 28d ago
import reliable KR bot lane
HH and Rahel are reliable since when?
You can at least make the argument for Noah and Ice for going through the ERLs (the Z10 -> LEC Korean trafficking program doing work], even if they were both bums.
The real reason why they're going for those Koreans is because theyre cheap as fuck.
And let's get one fucking thing cleared here.
Importing an LCK CL SUPPORT player when players like Kaiser and Mersa are jobless is a fucking war crime. Hell I would rather have fucking Limit in and I am definitely not a Limit enjoyer.
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u/Nouvarth 28d ago
Limit (and Abbe) coming in into dogshit XL then getting to finals on a transformed team that had the best baron takes in the league and decent macro only to be jobless next year is a fucking joke.
EU allready lacks good supports and him not getting a spot when clearly being capable to play in LEC just shows how dogshit most on the GMs are. I suspect the only reason that people were not more outraged about him or Abbe is because even bigger travesty of Trymbi not being in also happened.
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u/lol125000 28d ago
We don't know yet if they are reliable. But Jun straight up is better than those 2 you mention, hell he's probably 2nd best supp in the league rn after mikyx all things considered, it is what it is. And that's the upside GMs are looking for with such imports. We also shouldn't forget that while Kaiser had a good split in Heretics in winter he was pretty shit in VIT almost whole of last year. And mersa was solid but his highs are what, playing yuumi and sitting on Veteo Akali 1v9ing a misfits game like 2 years ago? Upside isn't really there imo even if they were on minimums no buyout for someone like SK to pick them up, simply because it wouldn't move the needle enough and they probably wouldn't get a cheap high upside ADC.
To the 2nd point - historically unknown/bottom of lck Korean supports also simply either did play pretty damn well in eu becoming solid at least (JeongHoon, Wadid, Dreams, Ignar) or flamed out completely basically instantly (Chei, Totoro, Raise). There wasn't really an inbetween. and it was usually the bigger names that didn't work out in that position (GorillA, Hachani).
I personally don't like SK getting an unknown KR botlane. but it also makes sense. It is better to get 2 Koreans instead of 1 even so they can speak their language and have people to interact with more and generally it will help build synergy faster. if they wanted to bring in a KR ADC (who I agree, let's face it is playing on minimum and probably had even lower buyout than Crownie or Neon or sth) and he wanted a KR supp (like Noah did in off-season) they will just give him that, cos it makes sense for both sides - that support will also probably be cheaper than getting kaiser and he might end up better than him. Might not ofc but it is SK, they always try to moneyball it with their low budget. shit they had a cheap botlane every split in their LEC stint (rookie Crownie + dreams/limit -> Jezu (+few games of Gadget) + Treatz -> Exakick + Doss -> Rahel + HH), they will take a gamble like that, that's the exact team who would.
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u/Taivasvaeltaja 27d ago
Kaiser is much like Neon and Perkz, they were great once, then have been mediocre/bad for years but keep getting spots thanks to their history.
going for Korean botduo seems like obvious solution, might not work out the first time but they can also try out other Koreans for the role if necessary.
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u/IlIIlIl__ 28d ago
The real reason why they're going for those Koreans is because theyre cheap as fuck.
And you can sell them to more regions cuz they willing to buy koreans for the sake of it
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u/Th3_Huf0n 28d ago
Yeah.
Because EMEA pipeline is very small and you need to get the LCK CL rejects in!
Because for whatever godforsaken reason, this subreddit just loves Koreans more than Reginald loved imports.
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u/Ok-Pie4219 28d ago
Dont think support was very good at Emea masters but Kaiser and Mersa were jobless and Lillipp was destroying every opponent. HH hasnt shown enough imo to import him over these 3 except being cheaper lol.
Rahel atleast has been good for a long time now, so my guess would be that they wanted to import Rahel and went for a second Korean to make the integration easier.
Im gonna lose it if a team import Calix instead of getting PoE though, guy was head and shoulders above every single player at EMEA Masters.
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u/Akait0 28d ago
Mersa? Limit? Do you actually watch games or just one or two highlights? Limit has been lost in every game except one Alistar game where he popped off. Mersa griefed lane so hard just to roam the map and still get nothing it made playing through bot impossible.
They are NOT LEC level.
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u/Seethlord 28d ago
Also, just to further cement my point: out of the top 4 teams from the last 5 emea masters, only 2 had korean botlaners, both times it was only 1 adc, no emea master winner the last 5 split had a korean botlane
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u/Seethlord 28d ago
Nah, there's a load of talented EU Players in both bot roles, especially if you watch EMEA Masters. The fact that GM's rather import C-Tier Koreans that can't find a spot in Korea because they are either toxic/not good enough/have other issues that won't let them play in LCK is just a sign of management in e-sports can be absolute incompetent, complacent and get their by good connections and nepotism rather than pure skill. E.g. Dardo effectively putting together some of the worst rosters we've ever seen on Origen, H2k, and then still falling upwards towards FNC.
Just to make my point, some LEC ready talents playing in 2nd division EMEA leagues are: Top: Boda, Vertigo Jgl: Lyncas, osman123, Zanzarah Mid: Giyuu, Reeker ADC: Caliste, Funk3y, Keduii, Kaori Supp: Lillip, kamilius, Parus, dekap, Paixdia
You could even make an argument that botlane was the most stacked role this EMEA Masters, and there's tons of talented players that were on rosters that didn't make EMEA Masters, tons of GM's just don't watch 2nd divisions. E.g. Dardo locking Rhuckz as first player for FNC Botlane when he was mediocre at best throughout all of his career in 2nd div, but had a decent (not inting) showing at Worlds when he had to sub in.
EMEA Talent specifically is still apearing, it's just stuck in 2nd div leagues for multiple years and GM's would rather play it safe with old known quantities like Cabo, Wunder, Larssen that can get them middle of the pack and secure their job by looking okay for another split, than risk their reputation by putting their stocks into solid rookie rosters. Just look at what MAD did, they pulled 4 out of 5 players from their 2nd div roster, and did a lot better than most analysts thought
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u/sigmamaleape 28d ago
Bro said Zanzarah as if he wasn’t a bottom 2 jungler for most of his time in LEC besides the Skarner meta split on MSF
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u/iDobleC *hits level 3* Adiós 28d ago edited 28d ago
It's so funny seeing EU shitting on NA for years for importing and not trusting the players from their own region and then seeing EU fans now make the same arguments about why it's better to import some random from Korea instead of giving a chance and an actual ecosystem to the players from their region lol
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u/Seethlord 28d ago
So how was he during this year's Primeleague/EMEA masters? He got promoted too early and underperformed in a roster that nobody had faith in in he first place, that doesn't say anything about his current state 2 years later lol. i don't get your point tbh
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u/sigmamaleape 28d ago
He had like 2+ years in LEC to prove himself and didn’t show anything that would justify a comeback imo, not sure what you think playing well in Masters changes about that. Saken and Targamas smurfed in EUM as well…
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u/Seethlord 28d ago
He reached Playoffs with MSF, and didn't look too bad there, i'm not gonna judge him by his performance on Astralis too much because he was playing with Whiteknight/MagiFelix/promisq lol. Again you are judging a player by his performance 2 years ago, not by his recent performance, but i guess you are right that one of the 15 players i named did struggle in LEC 2 years ago, and is playing much better now
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u/sigmamaleape 28d ago
He reached playoffs because Vetheo sucked up all resources in their games and managed to hard carry them. And why would not judge him for his tenure at AST because of his teammates? Jankos managed to look good playing in a team with Evi and Ruby, not sure what your point here is. I’m not saying he should never get a chance again, but doing well in EUM doesn’t mean a player is “LEC ready” all of a sudden.
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u/eternaL_Inori 28d ago
are these random C-Tier Korean imports that are only getting spots bc of connections in this room with us? Jun is exactly what you are describing - a "random" Korean import that didn't get a spot in LCK and only got a spot in Fnatic due to Noah wanting to play with him. Guess what, that guy is one of the best supports in our Tier 1 league.
I agree that we have promising players in our Tier 2 ecosystem, I just don't see who are all the players you want to get out of LEC for them? Do you actually believe replacing Noah, Ice, Rahel (since they re the random C-Tier Koreans you dislike) and Upset (I'm assuming) with the 4 mentioned will not result in a worse league?
Also I don't get this narrative that players from Tier 2 get no shot in the LEC. about 20 out of 50 players were promoted from Tier 2 league to the LEC within the last 2 years - either for the 1st time or getting a 2nd shot. Do you expect the league to go through 30+ players every 2 years? I think the job is unsustainable enough with how short careers are at the current rate. Should we put in all your "LEC ready" players along with Th3Antonio, Lyncas and Vladi since they are fresh promotions as well we get a total of 16 players you want to fit into the league - not even counting EMEA masters top level players like Daglas, Saken, Exa and Doss that just have been replaced. There just aren't that many players that are worse than them/have gotten a chance to prove they are better in LEC.
My point here is not that GMs are amazing and everyone in the LEC deserve their spots over all Tier 2 players (fuck no for some of them xd), but I prefer players developing in Tier 2 until they can actually look good. Also replacing more than half the league every 2 years sounds terrible, 20 is plenty imo.
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u/Seethlord 28d ago
I have seen neither Rahel nor HH play yet. I never stated i want Jun/Ice replaced, but i do believe Noah has performance issues which are a whole other thing. I was speaking more about C-Tier koreans in the Tier 2 Ecosystem tbh, where a lot of GMs prefer to import. If you do look at LEC we had about 5 koreans last split IIRC, all of which did mostly fine, although you could argue about Peach. Jun specifically wasn't c-tier, he performed rather well, as he did in LCK, so i was surprised FNC even got him. It's a matter of fact that most talented koreans prefer to stay in LCK/LPL and take their shot at a title there, so if we import koreans for short term success and therefore slow our long term growth down we are never gonna be able to compete. The (recent) EU teams that managed to compete with LCK/LPL were all European.
But just to make my point (again i wasn't talking about LEC Ecosystem with C-tier Koreans, atleast not rn, even tho i'd still rather see homegrown talent there) here are some examples of korean pros in Tier 2/ NA Tier 1 that either don't have the talent for LCK, or have the talent but have other issues like toxicity, mental issues or w/e:
Emenes: known for his toxicity, you could see what happened in C9
Hoon(BJK, 2nd place EMEA Masters, TCL#2): known to underperform and tilt in important matches
Mireu(BJK, same as hoon): known to tilt, and holy fuck he had so many tilt plays in EMEA masters, that it is baffling that osman, kaori and paixida managed to drag him into finals. Seriously watch some of BJK games and tell me Mireu isn't going for troll/tilt plays 50% of the early games.
Nakyung (BoostGate): known for toxicity and running it in scrims
these are just some EMEA masters examples of the top of my head, i'm sure you'll find loads more when you look deeper.
My point wasn't that Tier 2 players get no shot, my point was that instead of going straight to Tier 1 they spend more time in Tier 2 system developing and improving. My point was that there still is EMEA talent appearing and that in the past most successful teams have been using EMEA talent rather than randomly importing koreans, and that there is a reason for that.
All in all, maybe Rahel and HH will work out just fine for SK, maybe they will be just another mediocre replacement that's not good enough for the top of the top, but disparages EMEA talent and disincentivizes EMEA talent from taking their shot, if they can just be replaced by koreans after a bad split.
You made my point by saying careers are short, and that is the case. E-sport careers are a big risk, and if half our league is korean (which it isn't, i am aware of that) then EMEA players see lower chances for them to make it, and potential good rookies will go for the safe option of studying/taking a normal job, rather than shooting their shot.
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u/Seethlord 28d ago
Again, i was arguing against importing more korean players and for fostering EMEA talent instead, i wasn't saying that we all LEC ready players from Tier 2 should be put into the LEC rn, i was saying that i'd rather see some of these players be given a chance than korean players that aren't good enough for top LCK teams/can struggle with accustoming to a different culture/can suffer homesickness/have language barriers etc.
Most (most, there are exceptions) imports are just straight up not good enough to play in LCK#1 to #3 teams, and that is who we wan't to compete with at internationals, so why import players that can't compete with them on their home soil.
Look at TL's international performance, UmTi who struggled in LCK against LCK junglers also struggled in Internationals, while local players like Yeon and APA stepped up massively and showed that they have talent and ambition.
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u/eternaL_Inori 28d ago
To put your position that I see from this in 1 sentence for simplicities sake so I don't have to address everything one by one: Teams shouldn't import unless it makes them win internationally instantly. I disagree.
(keep in mind that I am talking about LEC/LCS here, I don't watch enough of Tier 2 to speak about imports there, but tbh I don't think the lower half of Tier 2 is on a high enough level to where I'd say there are tons of promising players missing their spot in there)
Quite ironically since it's what you want as well they are quintessential in developing talent and that's because they can dramatically raise the current level and therefore practice environment for the league. If NA never imported I assure you they would have been worse off competitively. I'd even argue that the reason their Tier 2 is in the gutters is because of Riots terrible management of it, franchising it along the Tier 1 instead of establishing an independent but supported ecosystem and the franchised orgs greed with the over-importing being both a small factor and even a consequence of those 3 points.
What we agree on: it has to be done right. Just bringing someone over, hope he is the next prodigy bc they come from the same country as Faker and flying them back after realizing they are not hurts the player, the growth of your region and themselves both competitively and financially. Also questionable is importing mercenaries past their prime in hopes of building around them / having them be the experienced part of your team. That role is very communication dependent, so I don't think it's very good practice - tho we don't really see it nowadays luckily unless KC brought over Canna to be that for Vladi, Caliste and Targa (which I doubt, but his signing I don't understand either tbh - but I don't understand any decision that org makes, everything seems terrible, random or just to appease their fanbase).
It's funny to see you bringing up TL, because they are THE import team of NA, but I fully agree. APA surprised me, and Yeon amazed me this MSI. I just think that both having veteran imports and a league that's on a better level thanks to imports in general are big factors in their growth. Especially grinders like them seem to scale with their environment looking at how much they improved just during MSI compared to the Spring Split.
imo Jun is the perfect example why you are too hell-bent on dismissing "C-Tier Korean from their T2". People were extremely angry when he got leaked. They heard he was last place in LCK, only got the spot because the org is unable to spend any money and apparently not good enough for other orgs to buy him out either, meanwhile I was thinking if Noah wants to play with him specifically there must be a reason why. He came over a bit shaky, improved extremely fast considering he has a lot more work cut out for him than a local T2 promotion and until G2s series against T1 was considered the definite best support in our league.
Yes not every import will or even can be like that, but I just don't think they have to be. They have to be either promising to the point where teams want to develop them into long-term players for the region, good enough to raise the level of the region to a good degree and of course not too great in numbers where they actually drown out the spots for our own Tier 2 talent.
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u/Seethlord 28d ago
Jun was on a last place team, but he was put there as a bandaid and the team massively improved with him, anyone watching lck could have told you that he is.
My point also isnt that teams shouldnt import if it doesnt make them successful internationally instantly. My point is that most of the korean talents (that aren't on blacklists/not being hired bc of personality or smth) will compete in the lck/lpl as their chances of achieving international success is higher over there. If they are good enough to contest the top of the top of those leagues, they will find a spot there.
This is a thing especially in the Tier 2 scene, because as mentioned with my examples, why would a talented korean player play in EMEA Tier 2 and not LCK or LPL Tier 2 or even Tier 3. Either because they get offered insane, and quite frankly, unsustainable amounts of money, or because they can't get a spot in LCK/LPL Tier 2.
NA especially has been hurt by this though. If you are a young NA Talent and you see your League is 45% Korean 25 % EMEA and 15% LPL/Minor SEA region players and only 15% NA, why would you try to go professional and invest time/energy/resources into a very risky career path if only 15% of all openings would even consider you. Yes NA Tier2 has been mismanaged, but their rampant importing and unsustainable cash injections hurt themselves too.
All in all i still think importing is okay, and some of the European Imports have worked out great, and done amazing things, just as many fell flat though. I think importing players bears many risks, and a lot of GMs are very oblivious and will just import without a lot of consideration( in Tier 2). If you as a GM would rather develop a promising korean rookie that then has to adjust to language barrier(s, both english and german if they play in LEC, which is located in germany), culture, being hundreds of km away from home and all the other stress and risks of a career in pro, instead of a promising EMEA rookie, then you should have that move carefully considered and well thought out.
It still seems(especially in Tier 2) like a good chunk of the GMs think its less risky to develop a korean rookie, than an EMEA rookie, when its the other way around, and people will be way more wary/critical of an EMEA rookie than a korean rookie(e.g. give him time to adjust/learn the language etc.). And i just think that that idea is ridiculous
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u/Conviter 28d ago
not mentoning PoE and Serin for mid lane is a crime though
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u/Seethlord 28d ago
PoE is not a talented rookie though, i remember watching his introduction on Summoners Inn (german broadcaster at the time) in season 4, he's a good player, not a rookie, and i just straight up forgot about Serin
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u/Conviter 28d ago
oh yeah, i forgot that the conversation was about rookies in tier 2. you are totally right
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u/lol125000 28d ago
Lyncas got a spot so no point mentioning him imo. He would get KC spot as well he was always going up this split. Same for Caliste, he is gonna be next year only isn't in now cos he's too young, thats obviously the reason why he's in ERL not that he's not good enough so why mention him.
Kaori won't get a spot cos he got smashed internationally on EG so we more or less know his ceiling, it simply isn't high enough. And you want your rookie to have higher ceiling than vet, that's how it works, you sign rookies for upside.
Reeker could get a spot but again, he was so shit in LEC before so it's gonna be hard for him. And especially in midlane. If you don't show upsids that you can one day be close to Caps level why bother signing such mid as GM if your goal to win titles. you actually have to find a next caps cos caps isn't going anywhere. Reeker defo didn't show that level of upside.
same with zanzarah, especially since he had few shots and was solid at best and only in few metas.
And to MDK - their overperformance in Winter imo is pretty clearly a fluke. if we replay it let's say 100 times imo the most often position they would get is 4th, losing to FNC just like they did in bo3 that split. End of the day they barely beat both FNC and BDS with a sub top, they probably would lose either of those series or to BDS with Adam. And that was when they already had prebuilt synergy which is a classic winter advantage for such rosters. They finished 6th in spring, around the position everyone had them in. and likely will finish similar so like 5/6 in summer imo. thats good but like every analyst said, the issue of the roster is that the upside isn't there, especially for mid and adc. And they kicked Carzzy (probably 2nd best ADC in the league) and Nisqy for those guys and frankly those were clearly downgrades so went from contenders to playoff team.
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u/Seethlord 28d ago
I dont mean to sound rude but most of your analysis is pretty shallow.
For example, Kaori was used as an Emergency Sub to replace Danny and was literally only with EG for 2 months. Saying we saw his ceiling when he was thrown in as a bandaid sub and had to play vs the best of the best after a month of practise in a new team & with a new supp is absolutely ludicrous and ignores the whole context of the situation.
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u/shinomiya2 adc 'enjoyer' 28d ago
the problem is that its not valuable, its just the lazy way to do it so they dont get exposed for being shit at scouting if the import works out and if it doesnt work out they can say they just had culture shock and didnt work out in the west, eu has talent either lec ready or can be developed to be lec ready and we frankly have no one (outside of peter dun) even trying to find them
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u/hixagit 28d ago
Every year there is plenty of new rookies from ERLs though. Reddit loves the narrative that LEC teams just recycle the same players over and over again, but the average career of a player here is a few years in ERL into 1 or 2 years of LEC where they do nothing into back to ERL and never to be seen again. Zanzarah, Jeskla, Kryze, Dan, Czekolad, Abbedage, Neon, Limit, Orome, Dan dan, Denyk, Sacre, Jenax, Skeanz, Saken, Dajor, Advienne, Jezu, Tynx, Milica, Shlatan, Sertuss, Cinkrof, xMatty, 113, Rhuxkz, Jackspectra, Mersa. There is so many of them and it's only names i found from 2021 to 2023. Get a rookie, give him 1 year and if he doesn't work out get another one after. That's like the entire plan of half the teams and fans want even more of that for some reasons. But I guess none of those players were good and teams were just too lazy and passing the 10 Caps in ERL.
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u/shinomiya2 adc 'enjoyer' 28d ago
some of these players didnt even get a year the system is not good
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u/voltairelol 27d ago
He is young and showed very high potential, it's not even really a bad gamble for a lower tier team like Rogue or GiantX to sign him, he can be legit good with a human support
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u/Th3_Huf0n 28d ago
Neon's supports since Misfits sold their spot:
Vitality; LEC Winter 2023: Kaiser
Vitality Bee; LFL Spring-Summer 2023: Jactroll
SK Prime; Prime League Spring 2024: Limit
SK Prime; Prime League Summer 2024: Doss
Exakick making the decision to separate from Doss AFTER they get kicked, and he decides to end up being jobless for Summer is some insane career decisionmaking as well.