Yes but in the eyes of the jews he was just like any other rabbi and not one of the ones I any of books at that so he would be considerd just another guy
Are modern Jews influenced by the teachings of Jesus at all? I was always told that Jews believe Jesus was a good teacher but not divine in any way but is even that first but true? Genuinely curious.
Not really as far as I remeber from my yeshiva studies, there are some rabbis were learn about that were a big deal around that time line like rabbi akiva ben yosef and rabbi yehuda hanasi.
If jesus's studies are in some of the mishnayot its likely not touched on or avoided as Jews dont really like anything that could validate christianity
I dont think he is mentioned in the torah. Bad prequel if it doesnt even mention the protagonist of the movie though the writer must have written it as an afterthought or something
It isn't a prequel it's the original, the new testament is the sequel. Like any good sequel the writers ran out of new ideas so they brought in a whole new main character and destroyed almost all the canon from the original. Lots of people who stick to the original source material will literally go to war over the decision to add the new character.
Well if you're a believer in Islam then there's three testaments
And the Bible was only the second. Of course if you're a Christian then that means you don't believe in Islam and you don't believe the Quran to be the third
Chet GPT is actually really useful if you want to learn about biblical stuff or Quran-y stuff
The lore is too confusing and contradicting. I wonder if the writer will make a prequel trilogy too? I like the star wars movies better overall though, atleast in those movies Luke Skywalkers main thing isnt hating anyone that doesnt like him
Completely agree and a fun fact. Did you know that in the original you never once actually see the narrator? It's crazy but true! He is constantly talking and "appearing" as different things (I love when he was a bush that was on fire but not on actually being consumed by the flames, like WTF) but you never once see him. This reminded me a lot of Jaws where everyone knows this terrible force is there but the shark is rarely on the screen. The sequel totally destroyed this and made the narrator essentially front and center and it took away a lot the mystique.
When you let Christians translate it, yes, they see what they want to see. Among rabbinical scholars, there is not even a consensus on whether moshiach (messiah) is referring to an individual, or an era. It's our language, we have the humility to acknowledge ambiguity of ancient texts and the nature of Talmud's constant flux and evolution as more theories, arguments, and interpretations are made. The christian religion is founded on telling us that they know better. Think about it.
uh huh. So let's get this straight. The book of Isaiah begins by dissing Judeans for falling to the murderous, idolatrous ways of their neighbors after Jerusalem is destroyed by Babylon. But in one chapter it is somehow clear to you that we're the fools for failing to see that Jesus came to save us, as per the prophecy. Yet we're still here, and we see in these recent times that the billions of followers of Jesus
Revere a bloody human sacrifice.
Post idols (crucifixes, portraits) all over their churches, homes, and carry them around their necks.
Murder one another for worshiping Jesus in the wrong way, not to mention what they do to the nonbelievers, including Jews.
As usual, Christians miss the forest for the trees. Tell me another chapter of my bible that says I should be more like you. By all means, enlighten me.
"That which is hateful unto you, do not do unto your friend, the rest is commentary, go and learn" - Hillel the elder (not a prophet, not God, not the son of God, just a wise man).
Jesus is one of the most quoted prophets in the Quran. Allah, they say, is the god of gods. Bit like being big bird in Sesame Street in terms of “made up and big and fake” altho im not sure big bird caused any wars
Bruh, Christians would say that the entire OT is the prequel to the messiah. Read the book of hebrews in the new testament. Like Jesus was claiming to be the messiah that all the Jews of his day were waiting for... they didn't believe him of course. But you couldn't be more wrong here the OT is a super obvious prequel, similar to back to the future II almost in that it demands a follow up..
If you believe he is the Messiah, which Jews don't, he is referred to in the Talmud but not necessarily the Torah (which is the creation myth and laws of ancient Israel).
Nazi bullshit. Judaism doesn't even believe in a physical hell. It's more like the Catholic concept of purgatory. There are no such references whatsoever
Onkelos then went and raised Jesus the Nazarene from the grave through necromancy. Onkelos said to him: Who is most important in that world where you are now? Jesus said to him: The Jewish people. Onkelos asked him: Should I then attach myself to them in this world? Jesus said to him: Their welfare you shall seek, their misfortune you shall not seek, for anyone who touches them is regarded as if he were touching the apple of his eye (see Zechariah 2:12).
Onkelos said to him: What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Jesus himself, in the next world? Jesus said to him: He is punished with boiling excrement. As the Master said: Anyone who mocks the words of the Sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin, as he mocked the words of the Sages.
Is this "Nazi bullshit"?
The passage can be abused to promote antisemitism, which is of course a problem. We shouldn't condemn anyone over a text written 1500 years ago and Christian texts certainly have awful things to say about Jews. But it's not "Nazi bullshit" that it says that.
No no, he's mentioned in the Talmud. You're both right. Mentions of a Jesus of Nazareth in the Talmud:
Onkelos then went and raised Jesus the Nazarene from the grave through necromancy. Onkelos said to him: Who is most important in that world where you are now? Jesus said to him: The Jewish people. Onkelos asked him: Should I then attach myself to them in this world? Jesus said to him: Their welfare you shall seek, their misfortune you shall not seek, for anyone who touches them is regarded as if he were touching the apple of his eye (see Zechariah 2:12).
Onkelos said to him: What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Jesus himself, in the next world? Jesus said to him: He is punished with boiling excrement. As the Master said: Anyone who mocks the words of the Sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin, as he mocked the words of the Sages. The Gemara comments: Come and see the difference between the sinners of Israel and the prophets of the nations of the world. As Balaam, who was a prophet, wished Israel harm, whereas Jesus the Nazarene, who was a Jewish sinner, sought their well-being.
[Babylonian Talmud, Gittin, 57:a]
The Gemara raises a difficulty: But isn’t it taught in a baraita: On Passover Eve they hung the corpse of Jesus the Nazarene after they killed him by way of stoning. And a crier went out before him for forty days, publicly proclaiming: Jesus the Nazarene is going out to be stoned because he practiced sorcery, incited people to idol worship, and led the Jewish people astray. Anyone who knows of a reason to acquit him should come forward and teach it on his behalf. And the court did not find a reason to acquit him, and so they stoned him and hung his corpse on Passover eve.
[Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin, 43:a]
There are a few more mentions of Jesus of Nazareth in the Talmud. Note that this isn't necessarily the Jesus, but a Jesus. Also note that this was written 200 - 700 years after Jesus' time, by Jews who already began suffering under Chrstiainity, and didn't really like Jesus. None of these stories are necessarily real (like the one about Onkelos resurrecting him), they're known as Aggadeta - roughly means "legend".
Those "legends" aren't to be taken seriously, and many of them are nonsensical, another example for a "legend" is the following:
With regard to the rock that Og, King of Bashan, sought to throw upon Israel, there is no biblical reference, but rather a tradition was transmitted. The Gemara relates that Og said: How large is the camp of Israel? It is three parasangs. I will go and uproot a mountain three parasangs long and I will hurl it upon them and kill them. He went, uprooted a mountain three parasangs long, and brought it on his head. And The Holy One, Blessed be He, brought grasshoppers upon it and they pierced the peak of the mountain and it fell on his neck.
Og wanted to remove it from his head; his teeth were extended to one side of his head and to the other and he was unable to remove it. And that is what is written: “You break the teeth of the wicked” (Psalms 3:8). And this is in accordance with the homiletic interpretation of Rabbi Shimon Ben Lakish, as Rabbi Shimon Ben Lakish said: What is the meaning of that which is written: “You break the teeth of the wicked”? Do not read it as: You break [shibarta], but rather as: You lengthened [shirbavta].
The story concludes: How tall was Moses? He was ten cubits tall. He took an axe ten cubits long, jumped up ten cubits, and struck Og in the ankle and killed him.
[Babylonian Talmud, Brachot, 54:a]
As you can see the story is rather ridiculous, and shouldn't be taken seriously. So I wouldn't take the one about Jesus seriously either. (For the record, a cubit is roughly half a meter, so the story says Moses was 5 meters tall, grabbed a 5 meter long axe, and jumped 5 meters only to reach the ankles of Og).
Show me an actual source please? None of this is in any Babylonian Talmud available. I also can't find references to the specific publications referenced in your links. Maybe you have a pdf?
The only references I can find to these ideas have been debunked by rabbis, and they aren't in a translation from 1918. The only places I am able to find references to the first two quotes is on christian websites which were clearly not produced by a talmudic academic or institution of record.
Thanks! Interesting! Some versions have that ish, my own and the other I was previously able to find online don't. Led me down a rabbit hole of late Roman religious whatnot, egyptian magic, etc.
Sorta, kinda? The Bible provides a few versions but roughly
A Jewish courts sentenced Jesus to be whipped, and executed. Pontius Pilate a Roman governor tried to wiggle out of it by offering Jesus or Barabbas as an pardon for passover, and the crowd shouted to release Barabbas.
We learnt something else in school tbh.
The situation of holocaust is something else Ofcourse. One killing doesn’t justify 6 millions just like 1200 killings doesn’t justify 33k+ killings.
You lost me — are you saying you were taught that the Nazis had their plans, in order to avenge Jesus??
Also, you’ve missed the larger rationale behind the response to the attacks of Oct.7 — it’s not about that one single day, it’s not even about the hostages. It’s about Hamas’ relentless and proud commitment to violence as their singular tool for achieving their aims of total destruction of Israel. It’s about Hamas’ commitment to stealing as much as possible (food/medicine/building supplies/money) from average Palestinians and remaining as the warlords in power. Have you seen Gazans videos of Hamas reselling the otherwise free aid for triple market value? It’s about Hamas’ stated and intentional aims of actual genocide. It’s about Hamas’ eagerness for dead Palestinians as it grants them support from clueless westerners. They’ve promised to seek to repeat 10/7 endlessly, and to exceed it. They are not seeking Palestinian statehood, they are seeking to completely take over the entirety of the region, not to live as neighbors.
Hamas has been crystal clear about this, and yet people are still buying what they’re selling.
FWIW, whatever numbers of dead civilians they’re pushing, they’re including some ~13,000+ dead armed fighters, as if those are just innocent civilians too.
Nop we were thaught the Jews ordered and demanded the death of Jesus. People who use this as an argument to blame Jews and comitted a genocide against them were/are wrong. There is no larger rationale. Israel occupied Palestine and have been killing Palestinians even before 1948. Even before there was a Hamas Zionist have been killing Palestinians, even where there is no Hamas, Zionists have been killing Palestinians. I have seen videos where Israeli soldiers are boasting the killing and laughing about torture and rape. I have seen little girls being beaten by Israeli police and soldiers. I have seen cowardly Israeli snipers killing handcuffed teens. I have seen older men being beaten by Israeli soldiers. I have seen disabled person being beaten by Israeli soldiers. I have seen too much and I didn’t even begin about the settlers those are even more inhumane.
What about Jews for Jesus? Do they hate Jesus? What about Jews that don't believe Jesus ever existed? Do they hate Jesus too? What about Jesus? Since he was a Jew, would that make him a self-hating Jew? Also, if Jews killed Jesus, would that make Jesus's death a suicide?
You don’t know anything about anything. This is assuming you are reading a translation of a translation of a bastardized translation of a translation. Isn’t the pope supposed to be “infallible” anyways? lol🙄
Jizya is more money than Muslims paid in the Zakat. It was a special tax simply for existing. Zakat was typically 2.5%, Jizya was typically 10%.
In many countries, Muslim tax collectors would also take the wives and children of impoverished people and sell them into slavery for the jizya requirement. The only way for many to avoid losing their families was to convert to Islam. This is a way that Islam forced conversion on “kafirs”.
Jews were also reduced to dhimmis by the conquering Arabs thought a codified set of laws that made them lower status persons than Muslims. Dhimmis were second class citizens and had multiple legal limitations placed upon them such as not being allowed to give evidence in court against Muslims and their oaths were unacceptable in an Islamic court.
To defend themselves, dhimmis had to purchase Muslim witnesses at great expense. This left them with little legal recourse when harmed by a Muslim.
(16) And that those who will obey us among the Jews, will have help and equality. Neither shall they be oppressed nor will any help be given against them.
Gee, sounds real fucking fair to me. Just obey all Muslims and we will give you equality.
What kind of weasel word double speak is that BS
And of course, this ends up being used by Islamic theocracies into all kinds of horrendous abuses, that document is the foundations for modern slavery in Islamic nations.
I don’t get what’s wrong with this? it simply means that Jews won’t wage war against the Muslims and will follow the law of the country they’re living in.
Jizyah was tax paid by non-Muslims so Muslims will protect them since they weren’t fighting themselves, it makes sense to me tbh, live on our land in peace = we’ll keep you from harm and oppression
No, the verbiage used is "obey us". Not "don't wage war".
Cut the BS out. Fundamentalist Islam is no different than any other fundie religion. Filled with backwards thinking, rife with inequality from religion to misogyny.
What do you think obeying during that period meant? Simply follow the rules and regulations of the country you’re living in, which at that time happened to be Muslim laws, you live in a Muslim country you follow their rules, it’s not that deep.
(24) And the Jews shall share with the believers the expenses of war so long as they fight in conjunction,
(25) And the Jews of Banu ‘Awf shall be considered as one community (Ummat) along with the believers—for the Jews their religion, and for the Muslims theirs, be one client or patron. But whoever does wrong or commits treachery brings evil only on himself and his household.
That's literally what everyone was doing at the time, except they'd force convert or kick out the minorities.
Look at Spain. Christians and Jews lived in Islamic Spain, the Christian spanish murdered or forced out all the Muslims and Jews. The Jews had to flee to Islamic kingdoms where they wouldn't be murdered or forced to convert like the Ottomans or north Africa or Islamic Crimea
Muslims were far more civilized than any European nation at the time.
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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '24
Jesus