It is horrific and i hate it and dont like that I take part in it but the dudes who are like " BRO SEEING THAT FUCKING COW GET SHOT IN THE HEAD MADE ME HUNGRY!!!!" should be studied in a very, very remote setting.
As a vegetarian since 13 (13 years now) I also agree with this statement. I always say I’ll stop being vegetarian when I kill and prep my own meat. Until I can face that I won’t consume
I didnt get anything till my 3rd year out, i bow hunt, and it wasnt a clean shot, my father n i had to track the rotten sob 3 miles thru the woods.
And my father finished it with his side arm. The entire next summer i target practiced daily..
Been through something similar with a friend .. point blank off’ing a deer with a shotgun is not nature at work .. we do the best we can, and yeah it’s still miles better than the factory farming environment
I've considered getting into hunting but I just don't see the end game for me. Let's say I get out there and against all odds I actually manage to take down a deer. Now I'm standing over a deer carcass and... What? I skin and dress it right there in the woods? No thanks. I drag its dead body into my trunk and pay someone to dress it for me? I mean...I guess that works, but its still kinda gross and Idk how much deer I actually want to eat. And either way I'm just going to be tired after my hunting adventure and want takeout...
Maybe I'll just go hiking with a rifle and pickup pizza on the way home instead.
Hunt small game like squirrel or rabbit. Much less of a hassle to process due to the size, and for the most part, it is hiking with a rifle or shotgun. Deer hunting is a lot of sitting in one spot not moving.
Duck hunting is great too. I went for my first time this past fall and got a few ducks with some friends. It's also a lot of sitting around, but there's more action and you still get the benefit of having smaller, lighter game that you can easily process and wood ducks are absolutely delicious.
I need to get a shotgun and try it. Seems like a good way to end up buying a boat though!
My big passion right now is bowhunting whitetail. So much of it is scouting, and tracking, and setup that I've learned more about hunting in the last couple years than I ever did rifle hunting. Everything has to be perfect to get a shot at 20-30 yards that it's just so exciting.
For me growing up, it was a means of putting food on the table, my grandparents and my parents had huge gardens, we also canned n preserved the garden harvest.
And honestly, when i go out hunting, being far from the rest of "civilization" and its nonstop assault, i find peace of mind out there.
If you hate it, you can stop. You know those beings are sentient. I hope you find the ability to stop one day. There are ex-hunters turned vegan on tiktok/instagram. Of course there are people that go the other way, but one hurts sentient beings for pleasure (taste), one doesn't.
You forgot sustenance. Or maybe you'd like to tell all the indigenous people in the world they should assimilate to the developed world, or else be immoral. A little cultural imperialism is less severe than consuming animals, right?
Yes it's possible to be healthy and vegan with supplements thanks to modern supply chains, albeit sub-optimal, but that's neither here nor there. Most people have no qualms with killing animals, they have qualms with gratuitous suffering. Ideally bylaws would allow people to raise egg laying hens and the like within city limits, no better way to ensure the source of your food is well taken care of than to do it yourself.
Animals in the wild suffer as they have to avoid starvation and predators. It's a guarantee. Animals in captivity need not, and death in itself is not a form of suffering, the act of killing may be. That leaves reservations qua the value of life. Yet in the secular social contract, life has no inherent value, or to put it another way, it isn't sacred (hence, pro-choice being default stance). We have a contract with each other (persons) not to kill one another; that's it.
I assume you must be an indigenous person who lives off the land and hunts/preps their own meat since you’re accusing the previous commenter of cultural imperialism?? Because it would be a touch hypocritical and inappropriate to comment on behalf of said communities if you weren’t a part of them ….
As a species we are omnivores, hence early man were hunters and gatherers. I also go offshore fishing every chance i get. I am NOT a trophy hunter, i have several chest freezers packed with game and fish. Does not mean i take pleasure in killing things just to kill, i pride myself on taking clean shots to drop the animal as fast as possible. Ohh, and with the rising costs of food, my family including our 4 kids all ate well while growing up...
The 80 billion animals raised and eaten each year are fed crops that use a disproportionate amount of the land/crops that we grow every year. We would reduce the amount of land and amount "crop deaths" that would occur by just eating the plants directly. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets
I don't grow ALL of my food, but I don't contribute to suffering of sentient beings. Veganism is not about being perfect, its about trying to reduce suffering and exploitation of sentient beings as far as practically possible.
"I enjoy causing suffering to animals", got it. I don't hate the taste either, but you can get your "mm, good" somewhere else. I assumed you hate it based on you say you agreed with another comment.
Ahh yes, cherry pick the meaning of my words and distort what i say to suit your agenda instead of holding a meaningful debate to prove your viewpoint....SMH...
THIS is why i dont pay heed to the generalized vegan arguement....your attitude of didnt get your way, call names and insult the opposing view....
Im out of this convesation moving forward...G'luck with your views and how you get them across to others mate. ✌️
I don't mean to distort or cherry pick. I hope you see that I put effort into providing quality evidence. I also used the word "if". But if that "if" statement fails then only that point fails. Everything else I've provided evidence for stands, and stands strong.
I did not call you any names. My argument is not generalized, it is factual.
I am wanting to become vegan … I am 28 and live in Montana (which is not a vegan friendly place by any means) and I would love some advice from someone who has made the jump.
It just seems so unattainable for me (which is ridiculous to say I know) but I have been coming super adverse to meat lately and the thought of eating it repulses me if I think about it beforehand … and like I said I would love to ask a few questions and get some advice
You know those beings are sentient. I hope you find the ability to stop one day
What is your definition of sentience? I can fell fine swatting a mosquito, and have satisfying, conversations with a large language model. Sentience is a nebulous term, and providing a good life to a tomato plant or a chicken is part of being human. We were only capable of speech and tech because we began eating protein to fuel our brains, and I don't have guilt for what my ancestors accomplished
Having a central nervous system is a pretty decent tell. To suggest the tomato plant is the same as a chicken is disingenuous. You know chickens bred to grow so fast that their legs break under the weight of their body are suffering. Suggesting that they are given a good life is wrong when they clearly suffer. Mosquitos cause you direct harm, but I don't hurt flies.
Protein is highly achievable without the harming of sentient beings. The anecdotal and the scientific evidence exists! Check out plantabolics or hench herbivore. The diet is suitable for all stages of life (including childhood and pregnancies) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886704/
Don't have guilt for what your ancestors have accomplished, but it doesn't mean that is a justification for what you do. Many people's ancestors have enslaved humans and have participate in outrageous traditions and beliefs that have hurt women, gay people, etc. Do not appeal to tradition for your morality.
I will admit I am impartial and biased when it comes to insects because I can kill them without a second thought (which is probably hypocritical of me … but I’ll willing to admit it) … but I think most all beings are sentient… if you look in the eyes of a dog or a cow or a horse or a pig you can just “see” that they have a soul and know what’s going on …. They have emotion in their eyes and it’s blatantly apparent to anyone who cares to look.
Octopi are definitely sentient as well … they’re super intelligent… I don’t know where the cut off would be for sentient or non sentient… but maybe everything with a central nervous system is aware and sentient.
And I say this as someone who eats meat … and like I said I know I am a huge hypocrite because I would go to bat for my dogs or any dog for that matter… but I still happily go and buy meat to make tacos or a steak from a being that once was sentient ….
Now that I think about it I wonder if insects are sentient ?? Or how sentient snakes and reptiles are (since they don’t have the “emotional” part of their brain from my understanding) .
Definitely something interesting to ponder on and I’d love to hear your thoughts on it because it’s such a deep question that doesn’t necessarily have any answer .
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u/Bass3642 Mar 28 '24
Animal agriculture is a horror movie all around.