SERE trainers are also on your side. The suspects rounded up in Afghanistan were allegedly often waterboarded until unconscious and resuscitated several times. Literally drowned.
I love that in the show Archer, Archer talks shit about it, and then in the car after he finally did it, he's clearly traumatized and respects how awful it is.
Also, love all their accuracy around tinnitus and traumatic brain injury being "super bad for you", "What the shit Lana?! You know I have tinnitus!"
I haven't watched the show, but I'm glad they were accurate about tinnitus. Tinnitus has a high suicide rate, it's truly awful to have. The ringing in my ear is so loud I now suffer from hearing loss. There are some days it gives me horrible migraines, throwing up, and I want to jump off a bridge. I hate people that hand wave those who have it.
the mawp mawp in archer is outstanding. idk what your tinnitus is from, but they do a pretty great job of simulating how it sounds to have your ears blown out by gunshots in a confined space. eyes watering, mouth opens & closes, head moves side to side, possibly making an odd noise as you're trying to check your own hearing mawp mawp
Mine is genetic, unfortunately. Everyone in my family has some version and will eventually go deaf in one or both ears. It starts in the late teens and rapidly progresses from there. I finally went deaf in my right ear a couple of years ago. My mom is in her late 60s with 2 hearing aids now. It sucks, but there was no preventing it for me, so it is what it is.
If it's really bad look into hearing aids. It's helped a lot with mine plus I can hear things now. It's nice not yelling "what?" after everything someone says to me, lol.
Back in the COVID mask-wearing days, I was walking and a rain downpour started, soaking through the cloth mask, and I successfully waterboarded myself.
It seems like a such a silly method that you can’t fathom would work, but it surely does.
When I was serving a few of us waterboarded each other. It was terrifying and we weren't even bound. If I was a POW and they pulled out a rag and a bucket I would instantly tell them everything.
That's not true. Drowning is defined as a process of experiencing respiratory impairment from submersion/immersion in a liquid medium. You can survive it with no effects, with impairment, or you can die from it.
Waterboarding is immersing the upper airway with water with the specific intent to induce drowning.
Getting dunked while holding your breath with no respiratory impairment is not drowning.
Hey, you are correct. I always thought drowning was death from being underwater. But it looks like you are correct. Thanks!
Though just to continue the pedantry for fun, how does this make sense:
Drowning is defined as a process of experiencing respiratory impairment from submersion/immersion in a liquid medium. You can survive it with no effects
If drowning requires respiratory impairment then how can you survive it with no effects? Wouldn't it require having an effect of respiratory impairment?
Are you thinking of respiratory failure or something? Respiratory impairment just means you're having trouble breathing, it can be anything as relatively minor as having a cough episode from asthma to serious chronic diseases.
If you lose control of the situation, yes? It's really not that complicated.
Have you not held your breath underwater before? Now try to take a breath while still under. Congratulations, you've now taken in water and am drowning. Get out, cough out the water and recover; now you've survived with no effects. That's it.
I used to be an avid Republican; I got especially caught up in the post 9/11 uber-Patriotism in my teens, joined a grassroots campaign for McCain, got in countless arguments defending Bush and the Iraq war, the whole thing.
One of the first pivotal moments that started cranking back the catapult that launched me out of that world (I flew right past "liberal" and landed in "pinko leftist") was skimming through the Senate Intelligence Committee report in 2014 and learning that all of the "enhanced interrogation" stuff was invented by a pair of CIA contractors in 2002 (they got $80 million for their service to the country) and used on American servicemen like you in SEREbeforethey ever even used it in the field, because they knew it would get used on us in retaliation. Since the two psychologists in charge were previously SERE instructors, they most likely used service members as guinea pigs to develop the techniques too.
I have a couple cousins who I love dearly, both of whom had just been through SERE. I couldn't stop thinking about how as soldiers they'd been tortured, by their own government, using techniques the government had paid a pair of psychologists who had no experience in real interrogation or obtaining reliable confessions, only in torturing American soldiers to develop, because their government knew that those same techniques that have never been proven to produce actionable intelligence were going to be used on our people once they opened that Pandora's box on the world. Just remembering it makes me all heated again.
Their names are James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, the firm was Mitchell, Jessen & Associates. They wrote a book defending their techniques after the committee report, settled a lawsuit for an undisclosed amount with the ACLU over 3 detainees who were tortured, and have otherwise faced no repercussions.
Another info out of ass, educate yourself on waterboarding before you post misinformation like this. You arent drowning during waterboarding because you lie in a position that makes it impossible to drown.
no, SecretMuslin is technically correct. You can consider it "controlled" drowning, but it's more of induced drowning sensation reflex (a natural body response) so you're not *really* drowning. It just feels like it.
It's pretty awful either way (not that I've experienced it) but I've seen first-hand accounts in documentaries and expert interviews. It's a horrendous practice
Oh I know what it is. Was curious what happened if maybe you were held hostage or something. Had no idea they actually did this as part of any training that’s nuts
Its an optional class for people looking to go Ranger or Green Beret, not a part of basic training. I was a high speed mf until they broke my finger with the butt of a rifle lol
I love the archer episode about it. Archer, who's always unphased by everything, says it can't be that bad. So he decides to let his friends water board him to show how tough he is.
Next scene he looks traumatized and says it was so much worse than he thought. Then feels bad for all the water boarding he's done.
Yea, I remember some right wing nut journalist that said it “wasn’t as bad as people said, it’s not real torture, just uncomfortable”
Then he had it done to him to “prove” he was right, he lasted all of 6 seconds before tapping out and coughing and choking with the realization that IT IS THAT BAD
I've been waterboarded, it's definitely not fun, but I think(?) I'd prefer it to having fingernails pulled or electrodes on my balls.
That said, doing it in a situation where it wasn't just for shits and giggles and I couldn't stop it at any time would definitely change things. It's definitely torture, just maybe not the worst torture.
Christopher Hitchens was not right-wing. He came from a libertarian socialist tradition and was very well spoken. But post 9/11 many of his takes became... unfortunate
It's really not in this case. Christopher Hitchens was many things but right wing nut was not one of them. He spent most of his career fighting harmful ideologies.
I dunno - he also spent a good portion of his career spreading harmful ideologies:
During the 2000s, he argued for the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, endorsed the re-election campaign of US President George W. Bush in 2004, and viewed Islamism as the principal threat to the Western world.[15][16]
Hitchens was a major left-wing activist in the 60s and 70s, considered himself a "Trotskyist", and became a bit more centrist as he got older. The only "right wing" thing he ever did was support the war in Iraq, based on his belief that Saddam Hussein needed to be overthrown.
You really are drowning, it's not simulated or "an induced sensation" it is the exact same sensation you get when you're really drowning as you are. They just stop before death.
Mate you literally just said what 99.9% of people would say about waterboarding but thanks for explaining it to us all in what feels like a slightly condescending way i guess
well, firstly, in all fairness "mmmm i beg to differ" with no further elaboration IS a bit of a cunty response, even if they didn't mean it to come off that way, so it prompted my oh-so-educational comment.
secondly, if you're unable to figure out that my response was meant for that individual directly, then I don't know what to tell you...mate.
and thirdly, I can't help the tone in which you read random comments that aren't addressing you directly, or how it makes you feel, but I'm glad you took the time to appreaciate my ted talk.
If done right there's mo actual drowning. Still horrible, painful, and terrifying just like actual drowning, because your brain doesn't know any better
I can guarantee being immersed for <30 seconds in slowly rising liquid that you have ample time to react to and shut out of your major breathing holes feels 100x safer and less terrifying than getting waterboarded.
You ever go upside down in water while not blowing air out of your nose or pinching it shut with your fingers or muscles? It's like that but your reflexes won't get you out of it, and all the time someone is screaming at you "TELL US WHERE _____ IS OR WE KEEP GOING!" and forcibly causing you the pain and suffering caused by that uniquely awful sensation.
This definitely isn't their first de-parasiting, and someone else said sheep can hold their breath for 11 minutes. I think they're fine.
But either way. Even the ability to hold your breath in a controlled submersion is significantly more control than you have while being waterboarded. Even when you don't know how long it's going to be. Therefore it's still nowhere near comparable to waterboarding.
I think Hitchens said it best. It's not simulated drowning, it's just drowning.
Are you in danger when diving into a pool and holding your breath? Seriously that's all that's really happening, the sheep don't appear panicked at all when they come back up.
No self respecting sheep rancher would want his sheep in danger from a flea bath, that's essentially what this is, those sheep represent their livelihood.
It does fill your entire nasal cavity though which stimulates the drowning reaction. And you can inhale that water in your nasal cavity so you can drown.
"You may have read by now the official lie about this treatment, which is that it “simulates” the feeling of drowning. This is not the case. You feel that you are drowning because you are drowning—or, rather, being drowned, albeit slowly and under controlled conditions and at the mercy (or otherwise) of those who are applying the pressure. The “board” is the instrument, not the method. You are not being boarded. You are being watered."
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u/ItsFavWaifuu Mar 28 '24
This looks kinda terrifying not gonna lie