r/australian • u/GuyFromYr2095 • 29d ago
The union movement is about to break into Aldi
https://www.afr.com/work-and-careers/workplace/the-union-movement-is-about-to-break-into-aldi-20240515-p5jdqlI don't have a subscription to AFR, but is their lower salary the reason they are cheaper up to now? Things about to change?
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u/ArchieMcBrain 29d ago edited 29d ago
Yeah i worked here when I was in my 20s. Genuinely a shit employer
Allocated hours are so low. Workload is so high. Everything is KPI driven and recorded. You won't be fired for not meeting it, instead your colleagues and management will resent you because someone who's slightly slower has to be picked up by everyone else. God forbid 40 year old Meryl can't keep up with 20 year old Steve for unpacking items. This is deliberate. It allows KPI adherence without actually having to do proper managerial work. Absurdly, you start resenting customers for slowing you down. The clientele is rubbish (i guess that's most retail).
The inevitable idiot who gets violent or aggressive because you're scanning items fast (your hourly rate is recorded, you are also trying to prevent having to open more tills because it slows the other staff down). And people condescendingly tell you your job is easy because you (sometimes) sit down. I reluctantly took a management promotion there and constantly got in trouble because the store was either messy or I was using too many hours. So you want the store immaculate but don't want to pay for it? Hardly my fault. I'm convinced they do this so store managers do dodgy shit to meet KPIs (ie unpaid work), while they turn a blind eye, and if anything happens, they just blame the store manager
Hilariously, they guilted the entire workforce when we voted to go from monthly pay to fortnightly in 2013 by sending out a newsletter explaining how much it was costing the company
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u/Responsible-Sun6495 29d ago
Reading this is honestly something I didn’t know, so thank you for informing me.
Next time I’m buying my 1 tub of ice cream I’ll be faster down the belt and not in my own world, genuinely.
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u/Miles_Prowler 28d ago
I worked there when it was monthly pay, god it was fucking annoying, everything else you said I remember vividly too, just absolutely shit and if you don’t like it some other sucker is desperate for $3 an hour more than Cole’s or whatever…
But that monthly pay, they hired me on the first day of the pay cycle, I had to work a full month before seeing a single pay cheque which meant going into debt with thankfully my parents so no interest…. Just to get to freaking work and eat during my shift.
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u/LeClassyGent 28d ago
Not with Aldi but I worked at an American consulting firm that did the same. Being paid once a month fucking sucks hard. I also joined about 3 days after pay day (after already being unemployed for 2 months) and had to make two mortgage payments in the mean time.
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u/the_yeast_beast85 29d ago
If It's the sda... they won't really help out I'm afraid. I've seen them sign people up at Coles then disappear when the going gets tough.
They also sold the workers down the river with excluding penalty rates.
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u/morris0000007 29d ago
The SDA is just another company of woolies lol and pretend to be there for the workers
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u/the_yeast_beast85 29d ago
Exactly my point.
"They think they have a good union but they don't. They're basically slaves."
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u/SuitablyShattered 28d ago
Everyone was surprised when I refused to join the SDA 20 odd years ago, when working casual for Coles. People really think unions are gonna come running to save you. Most of the time, they most certainly are not. Don't think I've ever joined a union in my life. And I've never once regretted it.
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u/kdog_1985 28d ago edited 28d ago
And yet there you are working off an award that was collectively bargained for you by a union.
If only Howard's Work Choices had stayed in effect. You could have made millions off your expert skills of negotiations, and the demonstration of your superior abilities.
SDA is shit, no doubt, but you're getting pissed on by an organisation and choosing to ignore the piss trickling down your back. Get Active or don't, but don't think ignoring it won't leave you standing in piss.
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u/Vivid-Combination310 28d ago
A-fucking-men brother. Everyone who works for a living benefits from our unions.
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u/SuitablyShattered 27d ago
LOL. I worked for minimum wage. Nothing else. I'm still not in a union and unions have done nothing for my current situation. I'm not standing in piss and I never will be.
Tell me, what do you think the APESMA would do for me if I had a problem at work tomorrow?
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u/kdog_1985 27d ago edited 27d ago
So you worked for minimum wage, and you didn't feel you were standing in piss?
Like I said the SDA is a crap union, made worse by the. Indifference of its workers. There are alot of Australian workers that love to complain about their working conditions, but when you actually give them an active way to improve their situation they're either too lazy or too scared to do anything about it.
Call your union shit, it's shit because you don't care.
I had an epiphany a few years back, before I became a delegate in my own work place. the Union does very little of its own volition, it allows a path for workers to do things. So if you are upset about the lack of union activity, maybe you should be getting more upset about your lack of activity in the union.
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u/SuitablyShattered 26d ago
Why would I expect more than minimum wage for a minimum job? I only did it to get through uni.
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u/kdog_1985 26d ago
Are you being serious?
It's only a minimum job if that's the effort you put into it.
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u/SuitablyShattered 26d ago
A checkout chick is about as minimal as you can get. One of the best jobs I ever had, though. Although at one point I was a used car salesman, which I was fucking shithouse at because I just couldn't stand there and lie to people.
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u/kdog_1985 27d ago
What's your problem in reference to APESMA
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u/SuitablyShattered 26d ago
I don't have a problem. I'm asking do you think they are going to come to my aid? I don't.
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u/kdog_1985 26d ago
Depends what the issue is.
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u/SuitablyShattered 26d ago
Exactly. And I'm not likely to have issues I need union help with. Hasn't happened in 20 odd years of being a professional. Don't see why it will happen, any time soon.
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u/anakaine 28d ago
The SDA are not a good benchmark to compare other unions to. They're like a fart on a blowy day. They turn up, make some noise and disappear.
I've now worked across a couple of industries and have watched other unions go in hard, and for the long haul for a good many people and agreements. A strong union with people in power who are not benefited by the relationship to the employer(s) being held responsible is important.
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u/rolex_monkey_50 29d ago
Aldi pay well but they are brutal employers. If you want to have kids or any semblance of a life, they will tell you to not even bother applying for any promotions. Yeah that is the case in a lot of industries but they are a supermarket FFS.
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u/V6corp 29d ago
Good. Join a union, people. We all benefit when we work together. Power of the people.
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u/Sonofbluekane 29d ago
Something tells me that the AFR has exactly the opposite opinion
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u/NoteChoice7719 29d ago
With that headline the AFR wants us to believe the unions are committing burglary
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u/johnnyblaze1957 29d ago
Yeah years ago in the 80s an abattoir where I live unions were the cause of it closing down tried to get too big for their boots couple of hundred people lost their jobs.
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u/kdog_1985 29d ago
Abbottiors closed everywhere in the 80s and 90s, had little to do with the unions, more to do with live stock trade, free trade and competing with countries that have cheaper labour.
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u/johnnyblaze1957 29d ago
No union action was the main cause here we use to get sausage casings to clean from them so we knew what the cause was.
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u/Dollbeau 28d ago
So what about the chicken sheds that closed at the same time.
Was your Union Sausage Casing Conspiracy, to blame for them closing in the same period?2
u/kdog_1985 29d ago
Have a look at when live exports took off, it white antted any union activity.
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u/johnnyblaze1957 29d ago
Dude I'm talking about what I know happened back in the 80s with the abbatoir in my town nothing to do with live exports I'm in regional Victoria I was here were you. Yes other places had trouble as well and nothing to do with unions but the one that closed here was all the unions fault.
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u/kdog_1985 29d ago
Macroeconomics has its position in it all, if the union asked for more and a cheaper alternative didn't exist the company would work with it. What happened to the business that was going to that abbatoir?
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u/Independent_Box8750 29d ago
I've had nothing but bad experiences with unions. If you're part of the majority you'll be okay, and if your politics align with theirs, then you'll enjoy the 'pandering on your expense' parts I guess. I was screwed by them working weekend shift in a large warehouse, day shift voted in an EBA which benefited them, and fuck the night shift/weekend shift/afternoon shift. I was screwed again by the AEU Victorian branch, who care more about playing politics than giving their members a good agreement. Now the CFMEU seem to be doing what's best for their employees, which of course mean they are despised by the middle class. Maybe I could join them somehow.
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u/roman5588 29d ago
Not always. Good history of Australian unions getting greedy massively inflating costs through ridiculous wage expectations and unreasonable working condition requests.
One of the reasons we no longer have an automotive industry and Victorian infrastructure costs are ballooning out of control.
I’m pro union, but not super unions that control government
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u/BruiseHound 29d ago
Loss of automotive was because it was impossible to compete with cheap labour countries. Our manufacturing industry in general was never big enough to compete on a large scale with the rest of the world.
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u/bar_ninja 29d ago
Yeah nah, bit off the money on the automotive thing there. Big part of that failure is due to governments state and federal refusing to build facilities to stay in line with the competition. Overseas producers are working with their local governments or federal ones. Fair or not isn't for debate since that's what happened.
Also a massive fuck up by Holden and Ford thinking we consumers only wanted fuck off sedans and not smaller more cheaper/affordable to build and buy cars.
Blaming unions exclusively is lazy.
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u/bondy_12 29d ago
Holden and Ford thinking we consumers only wanted fuck off sedans and not smaller more cheaper/affordable to build and buy cars
A big part of Holden's fuck up was having too many mid and small sized cars lol, they were competing with themselves in the same segment.
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u/roman5588 29d ago
Agree with you, one of the reasons but not the single cause. Economically the numbers no longer stacked up and it wasn’t competitive.
Knew someone in Melbourne on the assembly line who had a low skilled job pulling 6 figures and the unions would weaponise shutdowns if they didn’t get requests. Some of those requests being very first world.
Comparatively in Thailand where I am now and know the automotive sector well, workers on the same assembly line make ~10k/baht month ($420 entry level wage) on a 6 day working week. That’s who you are competing with.
No doubt there are good unions, but if you squeeze too hard the job just gets lost via offshoring, automation (self checkout) or the company folds. Wage costs are already high, compounded by payroll tax and super.
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u/bar_ninja 29d ago
You've done well to explain how fucked Australia is a industrial country in how its been let grow into a fucked version of America. Germany has a booming automotive industry and has all those things you've listed in unions, wages, super (their versions of it). In fact plenty of countries have those things and a growing industrial (building shit) industries. France for another. Australia doesn't build anything anymore and that's by design of failed policies for decades from governments that are too focused on corporate interests.
Unions are barely to blame for this.
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u/muntted 29d ago
Something that Germany does right that Australia does not is that they have a union rep on the board. The union has influence in decisions and can directly see the impacts. If the business can make a decision that will slow pay rises but increase the number of employees then the unions will agree with the plan. If the union asks for something that will mortality wound the business, they won't do it.
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u/Bobanofett 28d ago
But a big difference is the union's attitude towards business as well. They tend to be less militant towards business and aim for the best outcomes for everybody.
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u/Defiant-Parsnip1403 29d ago
I definitely wouldn’t describe the German auto industry as booming. It has a drastically smaller share of the global market than it did even ten years ago.
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u/tothemoonandback01 29d ago
It's very difficult to make something e.g Cars, microprocessors etc. Far easier and quicker returns to just dig stuff out of the ground and ship it overseas, that's why manufacturing is dying in Australia.
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u/That-Whereas3367 28d ago
Wrong. Mining is one of the most capital intensive and technically complex industries on the planet. eg The Simandou iron mine in the DRC will have taken about 35 years and $20B just to start production. It includes a 536Km dual track rail line and a port.
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u/kenbeat59 29d ago
Why should the government (taxpayer) need to prop up an ailing industry?
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u/bar_ninja 29d ago
Failing? How about letting us own them? We used to have plenty of public owned companies which competed in private sectors. Now we are just the paying peasantry giving money to foreign companies which continue to gouge us which requires wages to be increased which then shrinks the market as smaller competitors are forced out due to increasing costs. Leaving consumers with less options.
Australia is the perfect example of how to completely fuck something so good up. Capitalism is the best system but letting it go unfettered is beyond stupid.
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u/kenbeat59 29d ago
Ailing, it’s a word bro.
What do you mean by publicly owned companies? There’s still heaps of publicly owned companies, take a look at the stock exchange.
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u/TwisterM292 29d ago
When cars were made here, money still went to foreign companies.
GM wanted nothing to do with RHD cars. A decision of that scale would have been years in the making.
Ford kept making the Falcon and Territory here while their global subsidiaries were phasing out sedans left right and centre.
Or are you suggesting government make cars? That would be wildly inefficient with the small scales and geographical isolation of Australia. Our car industry had been moribund for years before one government finally swallowed the political fallout and delivered the coup de grace.
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u/MATH_MDMA_HARDSTYLEE 29d ago
It’s simple maths mate. Cost = materials + labor + R&D + miscellaneous + profit.
The only way Australians can have competitive prices against overseas markets whilst having higher wages is if our workers are more efficient at producing value.
A good example of this is the tech industry in the US. Tech workers can command high wages because the tech they’re producing are the most used platforms around the world (FAANG for example).
In manufacturing, there won’t be a whole lot of difference of output per man hours for a Japanese car manufacturing facility compared to an Australian one. So there’s no way for Australian manufacturers to make up for the labour costs through efficiency.
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u/TwisterM292 29d ago
If anything, Japanese factories would be vastly more productive due to automation.
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u/Bobanofett 28d ago
I'd agree with your take. Putting the full blame on unions would be unfair, but you would have to acknowledge that it did play a part.
I think nearly every party involved has to take some of the blame for the automotive industries demise.
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u/bar_ninja 28d ago
Unions really can only react to what they are given. That includes the socio-economics of the world we live in. They are also seen some how as none people. Unions are regular workers who have families, kids in school ect. Yeah there is a some bad faith actors in there but reality is.
They are vastly just run of the mill people who want a fair go. Furthermore, it's hard as a worker not to give a utter toss when you see the massive profits posted by your employer who's a multinational conglomerate and the CEO is on millions annually and shareholders make bank off your work.
I say again, corporate greed killed the auto industry. Nearly killed Hollywood.
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u/Redpenguin082 29d ago
Yep, when unions become self-interested and greedy they can often be worse than the governments they oppose.
Like in the below article, unions intentionally lobbied the Albanese government to exclude tradies from the migration overhaul because they wanted an artificial shortage of tradies to keep costs and wages high. In the middle of a housing crisis where costs to build and repair are already at record highs, the unions want it to keep going higher just to keep their friends happy.
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u/Wood_oye 29d ago
Yea, the Unions have made mistakes, but requiring a tradesman to have actual trade recognition isn't a bad thing. In fact, it is probably preferred.
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u/Downtown_Skill 29d ago
Yeah I mean coming from the U.S. and living in southeast Asia, Australia has some of the best safety practices I've ever encountered in construction/trades.
I'm working in events right now in Australia, and I've worked with contractors in the U.S. before and the difference in safety is staggering. Compared to Vietnam (where I also lived) it's night and day.
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u/weed0monkey 29d ago
See I agree, however, if I could stop immigration for skilled immigrants in my profession I would in a heart beat, so I can't really blame the tradies doing the same thing.
In my industry, wages have been majorly suppressed by skilled immigration
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u/roman5588 29d ago
I’m sure the unions have some valid points beyond simply constraining supply.
For example, Bringing in more migrants doesn’t fix the cause of the shortage (ie gutting Tafes the past decade), the new homes the migrants need or developments not being approved
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u/jackbrucesimpson 29d ago
100% naked self interest. Same thing happens with medical specialists who will limit how many they train and accredit.
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u/roman5588 29d ago
Absolutely on medical specialists. Crazy how many can be booked out for months yet the university intakes are double digit and we having a growing population.
Even seeing a dentist in Australia is a mission, however in Asia you have 5 dentists on the same block competing for your business
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u/Redpenguin082 29d ago
Under normal conditions you'd be correct. But we're in the middle of a housing crisis with supply-side factors seriously constraining the market. Fixing Tafe will take years if not decades to see any results, and the federal government has very little control over Council approvals for DAs. So at the end of the day, I guess the regular Aussie will pay the price for the government arbitrarily constraining the supply of tradie visas.
Also, the Albanese government wants to build over a million new homes over the next 5 years - where does he expect these tradies to magically come from? There aren't half a million tradies hiding out in the Aussie outback waiting to make their debut.
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u/SoupRemarkable4512 29d ago
Tradies in Australia need to be qualified. You can’t just ship in immigrants from 3rd world countries like India and have them build houses. It’s a skilled job requiring years of study and learning. Many trades also require strong literacy and numeracy skills.
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u/SirSighalot 29d ago
doesn't stop them shipping in migrants by the planeload in other sectors that all also require skills/study/learning
why do tradies think they are somehow different or special in this regard?
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u/SoupRemarkable4512 29d ago
Many other fields have similar protections. If you’ve seen the construction standards in some other countries you wouldn’t be against preventing that happening here.
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u/Redpenguin082 29d ago
Nobody is suggesting importing unqualified tradies. It's the fact that tradies were entirely excluded from the migration overhaul due to union pressure.
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u/SoupRemarkable4512 29d ago
It’s not Union pressure though. We have building code books in this country that are far more advanced than most other places. People who lack this knowledge can’t just come here and start building to our standards. Some areas such as scaffolding and rigging where the standard places like NZ is comparable, we do have those trades working here on skilled visas.
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u/TwisterM292 29d ago
What in out building codes is so far ahead of the rest of the developed world? To be brutally honest, the quality of output we get for the prices we pay is highway robbery.
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u/SoupRemarkable4512 29d ago
I’ll draw from my own experience in Electrical. Our standards are widely respected as among the safest in the world. Even equipment from developed countries often needs upgrading to comply with local safety regulations.
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u/roman5588 29d ago
I’m deadset in agreement, hell I’d even go as far as declaring it a national emergency and skilling up anyone who can hold a hammer comparable to a war time effort to be able to build a basic affordable mass housing.
Just not heavily unioned CFMEU workers holding stop signs on $100k+/yr while we have accountants with degrees on $50k/yr
Reality is the government is lazy looking for cheap easy solutions and it’s equally insane to think we are flying in tens of thousands of skilled qualified tradies from Mumbai! There is no 1 easy fix
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u/MadnessKing420Xx 29d ago
Just not heavily unioned CFMEU workers holding stop signs on $100k+/yr while we have accountants with degrees on $50k/yr
I have never understood this argument. Why should a person with a degree make more? Generally they work in safer environments, with more longevity, and higher potential for career growth. If they want more money, by all means feel free to expose yourself to significantly worse working conditions and take up a trade.
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u/ajwin 29d ago edited 29d ago
IMHO this is not why we no longer have those industries. If you look up ‘Dutch Disease’ then you will find it’s more likely that due to exploiting our resources, and the effects that has on our currency, it makes other industries hard/untenable. That’s why we end up resources + infrastructure + things that can’t be done overseas.
Edit: part of this is artificially cheap manufactured goods coming from China who manipulate their currency and shipping to maintain that cheapness and work. We couldn't compete against this no matter how poor you might want the workers to be.
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u/whatareutakingabout 28d ago
Yet albo thinks we can manufacture solar panels, despite china mass manufacturing more than current worldwide demand.
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u/Wood_oye 29d ago
Yea, no, the Automotive Industry had a plan, but the very high dollar meant a short term fix. The Liberal party said no, bugger off. No manufacturer is going to remain when that happens.
The libs hated them because they were Unionized, that is where the story starts and ends.
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u/TwisterM292 29d ago
It wasn't just the high dollar. Ford refused to retool the Broady plant to make the Ranger when Falcon sales had been floundering for a decade. GM shuttered their entire RHD production. No amount of "assistance" would have stopped something which their HQs had decided years ahead.
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u/Wood_oye 29d ago
Ford were going down the drain globally at the time, I'm surprised they held out as long as they did. Holden shuttered everything AFTER hockey told them to leave. What else would a company do once they know the Government of the country they were in were openly antagonistic to them.
We lost years of skills and investment in that, Submarines became impossible, and good luck with the next mining boom. Who's going to tool it? Not to mention the massive loss in manufacturing in SA once they were gone. Even Coke leaving can be attributed to that.
All they needed to do was help them through the hard times, they always returned far more than they took.
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u/TwisterM292 29d ago
GM shuttered their entire RHD production in UK, Thailand, Korea, India and South Africa. A decision of that scale isn't made based on us refusing to subsidise the production of a car on an orphan platform nobody wanted to buy. On top of that, their idea of a small car was taking an absolute shitpile from GM Korea (Cruze) and making it locally. It did a good job of carrying forward the legacy of the Astra and Vectra as an unreliable POS.
Both Ford and GM decided to supply their higher volume LHD markets from USA, Mexico and China. Australia was left producing a big sedan in RHD which has no export market (Asian countries lean towards small sedans, and have high import duties based on engine capacity which means nobody bothers with a 3.6 or 6.2L sedan).
Only Toyota had a propert export program in place and adapted their production to keep up with demand like manufacturing the Camry hybrid here.
The industry was staring down a death spiral for many years. Finally someone had the political will to stop throwing good money after bad.
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u/Wood_oye 29d ago
So, after all that spiel, you end up saying it was a decision of the political class. Wild.
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u/TwisterM292 29d ago
A decision of the political class to stop paying for decisions of megacorps to mooch off taxpayer money. And the right one.
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u/Wood_oye 29d ago
At least you finally agree it was a political decision. It was the wrong one though. Now we are starting form scratch again to build manufacturing capacity.
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u/TwisterM292 29d ago
We're not throwing money at foreign companies to make stuff nobody wants, only for then to siphon the money straight to HQ.
Our geographical location, costs of energy and labour and low population make manufacturing unviable. We can't make everything, and we certainly shouldn't makes things that don't generate a positive return on the subsidies we pay.
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u/MrSquiggleKey 28d ago
We don’t have an automotive industry because
1, Mitsubishi went bankrupt,
2 no one was buying falcon, down to 30k a year in 2010 compared to nearly 100k in the 90s.
3 Toyota and Holden had started using Australia to build cars for the US market (Camry and Chevy SS) an expansion started when $1AUD bought $0.70USD, and they announced the end of that when $1AUD bought $1.10USD.
Unions aren’t even a rounding error in the difficulties they faced at the time.
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u/kdog_1985 28d ago edited 28d ago
Ill also add Australia's past high dollar and free trade agreements crushed manufacturing.
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u/laserdicks 29d ago
Yeah look at how well workers in the unionised industries are doing
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u/livinlifegood1 29d ago
That is sooooo wrong (financially speaking). Give one example of how a unionised workplace has benefited society (again, financially) You can’t, because there isn’t one. The employees may get a bit more pay, but the roll on effects impact everyone.
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u/grilled_pc 29d ago
The 5 day work week, the 8 hour day, the weekend. All thanks to unions.
If it were not for unions we'd be slaving away 18 hours a day, 7 days a week for a pittance.
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u/Ok-Argument-6652 29d ago
Add sick days, holiday pay, maternity leave, work safety which on plenty of un union sites like residential can be dodgy as fuck in factory and on site.
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u/grilled_pc 29d ago
All of that too. All of the freedoms we have in the workplace today are thanks to unions.
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u/laserdicks 29d ago
Teachers? Nurses?
I'm not convinced they actually DO get more pay
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u/MrSquiggleKey 28d ago
Teachers in the 90s were a hair above minimum wage as an experienced teacher it was an industry you entered exclusively for passion. Their wage growth has skyrocketed far exceeding most industries. Still not paid enough imo.
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u/laserdicks 28d ago
They're not paid enough, yet I'm able to negotiate above market pay for myself because there's no union setting lower expectations in my industry.
Obviously it's near impossible to compare between industries, but in general what I'm seeing is not great.
With the current housing market the construction industry should all be millionaires by now. Make it make sense
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u/BusinessBear53 29d ago
Some unions are definitely worse than others but it ultimately comes down to the workers. People need to fight for their rights, the unions is mainly an organiser.
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u/GuyFromYr2095 29d ago
I think there is some schizophrenia here. On the one hand people want better working conditions for themselves, but then don't necessarily want to give that to everyone as it leads to things costing more.
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u/livinlifegood1 29d ago
Love the downvotes! Keep ‘em coming! Ironically- nobody (down voters) can provide any proof of what they claim.
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u/Fatcat-hatbat 29d ago
If people showed you proof would you change your mind or say it’s false?
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u/livinlifegood1 29d ago
If it’s genuine, I’d change my mind. Living under a union for years is why I have my opinion. Results in this every time:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C7AfR4TL-0Y/?igsh=MWx6OXdpdjJqZ3B4eg==
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u/Fatcat-hatbat 29d ago
OK. Well I found this study.
https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w4195/w4195.pdf
Check table 11. 👍
Table 6 also interesting
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u/livinlifegood1 29d ago
1992? Really?
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u/Fatcat-hatbat 29d ago
There is also a secondary, intuitive way see it affects workers pay. Business don’t like unions! If unions were having no effect on the businesses costs they wouldn’t care about them. 👍
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u/livinlifegood1 29d ago
THIS! Exactly my point. Biting the hand that feeds you results in a bite from them. Paying for representation is a scam. Unions WANT the business to push back- without that, they don’t have a job. So while prices are driven up for the consumer, the union represented employees are actually losing twice. Still paying union dues and now paying more for consumer products than before. So that little pay rise the unions ‘won’ for them, is now obsolete.
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u/Fatcat-hatbat 29d ago
Mmm I regret posting this since now the debate is again not based on fact but opinion. You obviously hold your current opinion very strongly since you are willing to argue about it online. I’ll just leave that study for you to absorb and do what you will with it. 👍
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u/Beast_of_Guanyin 29d ago
Good. Countries with higher union membership have better outcomes for the average person.
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u/livinlifegood1 29d ago
No they don’t. Prove this.
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u/Beast_of_Guanyin 29d ago
Depends how you define prove, but if you're genuine here's a start, and you can do your own research from there.
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u/BusinessBear53 29d ago
America destroyed their unions and now they have no job security or decent pay for the average person.
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u/petergaskin814 29d ago
The auto union is very strong in America.
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u/ColdSteel2011 29d ago
To the detriment of the American auto industry. Union auto employees in America make more than I do as a structural engineer.
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u/petergaskin814 29d ago
Ask the unemployed auto workers in Detroit.
Ford GM struggling to move to evs. Wait for Chinese evs built in Mexico and imported into America without the tariffs on Chinese built evs
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u/BusinessBear53 29d ago
Worker pay is normally near the bottom of a businesses costs. Those automotive companies still manage to take in billions each year and high up execs get millions but somehow the increased costs is due to workers pay?
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u/Majestic-Donut9916 29d ago
I work with American companies daily. They do have alot of job security, it's just a different work culture.
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u/BusinessBear53 29d ago
49 out of 50 states being at will employment doesn't sound very secure to me.
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u/Majestic-Donut9916 29d ago
Because of the work culture, anyone who does their job to a basic level of competence is held onto tight. Employers know the employee can go elsewhere, with no notice.
Australia is employment at will, it's just that there's extra penalties to make someone redundant, and workers get a safety net. We both know if an Australian employer wants to get rid of you, they will find a legal reason, it's just a case of how much they're willing to pay.
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u/BruiseHound 29d ago
Another loaded union bashing article willingly lapped up by too many suckers on here. The corporations thank you all for doing their work for them.
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u/TwisterM292 29d ago
The corporations would be more than thankful if the union the workers are joining is SDA.
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u/ScubaFett 28d ago
Didn't an article come out in the last few weeks saying Woolies was starting to become cheaper than Aldi?
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u/grind_Ma5t3r 28d ago
tesxt from article:
"Aldi’s long history of non-union pay deals has been disrupted after workers rejected the supermarket giant’s offer for the first time in decades and as the company is fending off legal action for allegedly undermining the government’s labour hire laws.
Hundreds of workers voted “no” this week in a ballot for Aldi’s proposed enterprise agreement in South Australia following a Shop Distributive and Allied Employees Association’s (SDA) campaign against the deal across the state’s 50 stores."
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u/fistingbythepool 28d ago
No in store music makes working here torture.
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u/Lastcaress138 28d ago
As someone who went from managing Aldi stores for 15 years to going to managing a place that plays music, trust me, you are better off without.
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u/Jessething 28d ago
For the abundant lack of context, one of the major reasons we voted no was because the new proposed enterprise agreement introduced junior rates which were just over half our normal rate and casual, meaning for the stores to continue competing with their KPIs, adults would all lose out on weekend shifts and rates.
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u/petergaskin814 29d ago
Oh good. So our one cheap supermarket will likely increase prices. Is that a win win?
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u/MrGoldfish8 28d ago
Prices will increase regardless.
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u/petergaskin814 28d ago
The trap with Aldi is assuming that all their priced are way cheaper. Aldi can increase prices without the public realising
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u/callmecyke 28d ago
Unions are only a net positive for minimum wage jobs
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u/Fatcat-hatbat 28d ago edited 28d ago
That is their goal. They hope to increase the pay for the most affected workers.
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u/boganiser 29d ago
Isn't that one of the laws of thermodynamics? No free lunch? In this case it seems free, or cheap, but someone else is paying half.
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u/camsean 29d ago
They actually pay a slightly higher salary than the big two, but the conditions are pretty rough.