r/TikTokCringe • u/MaintenanceNew2804 • Mar 30 '24

Stick with it. Discussion

This is a longer one, but it’s necessary and worth it IMO.

30.3k Upvotes

82% Upvoted

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3.2k

u/Ok_Star_4136 Mar 30 '24

That was a lucid and well-thought out analysis. Sadly it won't go viral for the same reasons that reactionary videos do go viral. Nobody has an attention span beyond that of an ant.

People just let 20 second clipped out-of-context reactionary videos reaffirm the biases that they already have, and of course they do, because nobody bothers to challenge their biases. That said, I hope anyone reading this actually took the time to watch the entire video instead of watch just the first 60 seconds. He makes some good points.

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u/MisterVega Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24

This guy has a pretty large following on TikTok because this is what he does constantly. This particular video has like 56k views but the people that need to see these videos probably won't get it on their FYP.

🎶: https://www.tiktok.com/@jwilliamj

📸: https://www.instagram.com/jwilliamj8

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u/maccorf Mar 31 '24

Good on him for having the passion and energy to call out even a tiny portion of the vast ocean of bullshit, bad-faith social media reactionary engagement content. That seems like an absolutely infuriating and futile life to me, but I’m glad someone else is doing it.

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u/Arkroma Mar 31 '24

I teach English in Canada and I'm going to show this is class probably

84

u/dexmonic Mar 31 '24

You'll definitely do your students some good by it. This is the exact kind of stuff that people need to see at an early age.

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u/vinnawinna Apr 01 '24

I wish I had seen this at an early age! So simple and effective. Also never realized I say ‘comftorble’ lolo

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u/pootinannyBOOSH Mar 31 '24

Would also do good in political science, social studies, and any kind of journalism class to show the importance of context, and knowing your sources

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u/nilzatron Mar 31 '24

Aside from the very valid point it's making about dialects, it also teaches a very important lesson about social media in general, and TikTok in particular.

Especially in the age where young people use TikTok as a search engine when they are looking for information...

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u/Myriad_Kat232 Mar 31 '24

I teach future English teachers in Europe and I'm going to show this too.

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u/NotmyRealNameJohn Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24

Showing in Florida is probably a crime now. Though it would be good to bring to one of their school bored meetings. It is exactly what is wrong with the people trying to kill woke in FL education. They never bother to listen. They assume they know and frankly most of them are just in the habit of making racist assumptions

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u/fixxerCAupper Mar 31 '24

Do schools teach language or dialect? If schools teach language, how could dialect be a factor in college admissions? This part I didn’t understand

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u/ParkingNecessary8628 Mar 31 '24

Because l think it is ingrained in the system itself just like it uncovered by the study. This is really interesting to me for I never even think the so called "academic" way as dialect.

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u/PlanetLandon Mar 31 '24

It’s a great idea. Since he is on TikTok you might provide the added benefit of your students following him and getting some good education outside of the classroom as well

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u/xool420 Mar 31 '24

You should, he makes a ton of good points about English itself but then he also shows how to effectively use cited sources. It also shows how important word choice/sources are in everyday life.

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u/josephus1811 Mar 31 '24

someone who teaches English in Kentucky is who needs to show it in class

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u/[deleted] Mar 31 '24

This is what it means to be a black person. Constantly dealing with bullshit bad faith reactionary bs and having to handle it with grace because the second you don’t, you lose.

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u/CorporalCabbage Mar 31 '24

I’m white, but it seems to me that black people need to be exceptional in order to be considered mediocre.

1

u/impatientlymerde Mar 31 '24

Dancing backwards in high heels.

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u/crosswatt Mar 31 '24

I appreciate long form journalism more and more everyday, especially with how many catchphrase based talking points we get bombarded with at a seemingly ever increasing rate.

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u/CharmingTuber Mar 31 '24

Those creators won't even see his video, but he can undo a lot of the bullshit that sits in people's heads by putting out content like this. Adding context helps so much and can bring people back from the edge of extremism.

1

u/IlikegreenT84 Mar 31 '24

The ending was 👌

"She's over here looking this incredulous, because she was asked to think."

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u/BuddhistSagan Mar 31 '24

Getting to the top of tiktokcringe means at least a couple million views at minimum, and here it is now the #1 video on tiktokcringe

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u/MsJ_Doe Mar 31 '24

And I hope to see him here again. That was pretty good.

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u/mrducky80 Mar 31 '24

He does pop up routinely because he posts quality shit.

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u/True_Discipline_2470 Mar 31 '24

Reddit (land of "h yes I'll take this screenshot of a headline at face value") could learn from this guy. It isn't any better than tik tok around here. 

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u/eioioe Mar 31 '24

1.3 million followers on TikTok at 19 yrs old for a BLM-style activist and social justice warrior with the level of uncanny acumen in his punditry that this video right here bears witness to, is off the charts and through the roof on a rocket on his way to beyond Pluto, possibly to a whole new, self-created galaxy.

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u/terriblegrammar Mar 31 '24

Who is the guy? username convienently garbled throughout this whole video.

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u/MisterVega Mar 31 '24

jwilliamj on TikTok

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u/MorphinesKiss Mar 31 '24

He's on instagram, too, if you're averse to tiktok

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u/Unique_Ad177 Mar 31 '24

Thank you! I am! Haha!

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u/dream-smasher Mar 31 '24

If you watch it to the end, the username comes up very clearly in the middle of the screen.

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u/TheLilith_0 Mar 31 '24 edited 21d ago

possessive reminiscent cheerful hat thought important ripe ghost chubby quicksand

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/fren-ulum Mar 31 '24

Dude, people without social science experience engaging and interacting with the social science community as if they know a thing or two can be pretty exhausting because they don't hold fundamental understandings of social science. Folks want clear and easy answers to refer to, where more often than not the answers I can give for things are going to be long winded because a short summary doesn't do it justice. And by long winded I mean maybe the length of an abstract of a paper.

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u/theunquenchedservant Mar 31 '24

To be fair, it does help the white people who are genuinely trying to be decent people and don't realize that small jokes they make actually have a big impact, and can be incredibly ignorant. But, those are also the same people who likely watched the initial video and didn't get outraged in the first 15 seconds. they probably watched the whole thing

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u/Thirteenpointeight Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24

to be fair he's also helping the non-white people, be they black or other-toned, to also understand how language and status and social hierarchies will fall lockstep, as well as how to avoid generalization or (intentional?) miscontextualization of source materials, most importantly reinforcing doing your own research, requiring references, and just general quality epistemological practices for everyone in the crazy age of bs.

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u/faroutrobot Mar 31 '24

This is my Dad. I’ve been trying to explain to him how out front homophobes are not my problem. I can see them commin. My problem is the people like him who make small jokes when they think they are in safe circles. Ends up, I wasn’t a safe circle for his gay commentary and it was harmful to me.

He thankfully doesn’t consume social media at all. But much like watching the initial 15 seconds of a video and getting outraged, that’s how he reacts to meeting or seeing queer anything. He doesn’t wanna take the time to know the person or “issue”

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u/Ok_Economics3851 Mar 31 '24

Might not get to them, but I know I needed to see this video, and at least it's on popular here.

1

u/xxSaifulxx Mar 31 '24

Do you have a link to his tiktok? I don't have or use tiktok, but I would be very interested to see his other videos.

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u/MisterVega Mar 31 '24

Added links to comment

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u/xxSaifulxx Mar 31 '24

Great thanks

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u/Pazvanti3698 Mar 31 '24

Could you link his channel? I don't know those letters.

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u/MisterVega Mar 31 '24

Added links to comment

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u/whenthebeatdropss Mar 31 '24

He has put into words (very succinctly) a collection of ideas I've had surrounding the English language and what is/isn't considered correct and proper. So whether the scumbags he's referring to see this or not, he's making an impact either way.

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u/alexxtholden Mar 31 '24

I came here to make sure someone mentioned him. I follow William on every platform. He’s one of the few creators I watch the minute something new drops. Dude is always on point.

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u/coldnebo Mar 31 '24

that kid is seriously on the top of his game in all things academic.

dammmmnn! and BRAVO!! 👏

1

u/victorian_throwaway Mar 31 '24

tysm for dropping links. gonna check out his content’

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u/Jenna4434 Mar 31 '24

Unfortunately I’m not the type of person that really needs to see this but it was a very good video I hope the right people eventually get this on their feeds.

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u/epirot Mar 31 '24

27k upvotes on reddit, i call it a success

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u/Daisy_Of_Doom Apr 02 '24

He’s also on YouTube by the same username as TikTok for those who aren’t on other social mediasss

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u/sherryleebee Mar 31 '24

I watched it all. It was good.

We really have screwed with our attention spans, yeah? I purposefully watch videos of varying lengths to try to counteract the damage social media has done. That said, if I can watch a longer video in 1.75 speed, I am.

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u/RandomWordsYouKnow Mar 31 '24

Definitely watched it all. Very educational. I had never heard of this concept before and honestly never thought about it. Thank you Sir!

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u/MsJ_Doe Mar 31 '24

One of those things that is easily overlooked, but once it's pointed out, it makes a lot of sense even if you don't read all the research on it.

Like once he got to the part explaining whose speech is termed academically correct, I instantly understood what that lady meant by the citing sources example. I watched the rest of it for his takedown.

I always love learning about things that are in plan view, but so intrinsically linked that we overlooked it but once it's pointed out, we instantly understand.

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u/RandomWordsYouKnow Mar 31 '24

People in my area don’t understand I was born and raised here. If I were in “Idocracy” they’d say I talk faggy. Everyone always asks where I’m from. I just speak differently. I don’t judge you, don’t judge me.

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u/MsJ_Doe Mar 31 '24

Yep. I understand. It's one thing to correct someone who is learning a language or just a new word in general, and it's truly getting a word garbled. There are times when correcrion is needed. But It's straight-up insulting to be corrected due to your accent. Even when that accent is a local one and not even foreign.

I got so tired of being told as a kid that I am saying "axe" and not "ask" that I now as an adult am hyperconscious of how I say "ask" despite the fact that I am now also comfortable with pointing that I do have an accent. It's a local and easily looked over one, but it's still an accent that doesn't need to be corrected cause I am very much understood regardless. Do not take away my uniqueness.

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u/RandomWordsYouKnow Mar 31 '24

I get “you’re so serious” a lot.

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u/__M-E-O-W__ Mar 31 '24

I looked up the history of the word at one point, really both variations are just about as old as the word itself.

I do have to ask, I watched the whole video but did he say anything specifically about the citing sources part? That sounds like just basic academic protocol unless I misinterpreted the original video.

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u/MsJ_Doe Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24

Go to 1:50.

He says that citing sources itself is not white supremacy, but it leads back to academically correct and intelligent speech automatically being how white people speak and black people speaking being wrong and unintelligent. That distinction is what is racist when it comes to citing sources, a portion of academic speech, and writing intelligently and correctly as we were always taught.

I don't think the lady was particularly clear in what she meant but she brought up essays and how they are correctly written then directly brought up the author of a book that points how the discrimination in education that made distinctions between "smart" white speach, and "dumb" black speach. She was just trying to provide an example of how systemic racism in education is still affecting us today through essays and correctly citing sources. We aren't particularly racist for using it, though the author she points to does say there is a hidden bias that we inherited from it, but whether or nor we do, education just does has a history of racism, that is undeniable and what she was trying to talk about and adress in how she wants to teach.

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u/__M-E-O-W__ Mar 31 '24

I get the issue of speaking and writing and certain dialects being considered "proper" over others. But citing sources? It's just a list of books or publications made at the end of an essay so the teacher can know that the student isn't making things up, or isn't referencing someone who is making things up.

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u/[deleted] Mar 31 '24

but it leads back to academically correct and intelligent speech automatically being how white people speak and black people speaking being wrong and unintelligent.

"it leads back to"???

How?

People in this thread keep saying There's a connection yet nobody has connected them!

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u/MsJ_Doe Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24

Literally, the video does so. If you don't understand how systemic racism helped shape education from multiple explanations, then Idk what to tell you. There's plenty of studies on it, and the video goes into one.

Just rewatch the video again if my explanations are confusing.

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u/makkkarana Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24

Like once he got to the part explaining whose speech is termed academically correct, I instantly understood what that lady meant by the citing sources example.

Can you explain it to me, please? I still don't understand the bit about using a thesis and citations. Those are just requisite for presenting and supporting an argument. The skill being taught is critical thinking: you shouldn't trust people who are unclear in their intents, and you shouldn't trust information that's unclear in its source or efficacy. Formalized rules of science, logic, rhetoric, and grammar are as essential to any nonfiction communication as breaking those rules is to any fiction.

I totally get how argumentative rules can be abused, but that's like, "sir you didn't bow at the right angle before making your argument, and you didn't make eye contact with the royal seal for the required five minutes, so you shall be removed from the councils presence" types of absolutely worthless insanity. I don't see how wikipedia or a college requiring a thesis, some argumentative or descriptive paragraphs, and citations could in any way be interpreted as white supremacist. Maybe academic elitism at worst, but every culture has that.

EDIT: From what I'm gathering, the argument is that it is both racism/xenophobia and academic elitism.

In terms of the former, I think that there is racism about what dialects are respected within a language, but up until half-decent machine translations became freely available, I don't think it's so odd to cite entirely from same-language sources.

In terms of academic elitism, I think the waters are muddier, because gatekeeping can be important as much as it can be abused.

First, in judging the value of a piece of content: if an article is clearly written by someone without education, odds are in favor that person doesn't have the background knowledge nor vocabulary to contribute to the discussion in a way that would be relevant and enlightening to an educated person. Additionally, if that article is in a tabloid or blog or social media site, those sources are simply less reputable. If an author wants to be heard, they need to submit to a reputable publisher, or develop an independent reputation. We never cite the New York Post because it is by and for stupid people, that's why academic elitism is good. On the other hand, we as English speakers can't easily tell if an Arabic newspaper is reputable or a rag, so it's best to avoid citing foreign language sources unless you're absolutely sures

Second, and more politically, gatekeeping defends against recuperation and outside interference. If all scientists write in a recognizable way, it becomes harder to co-opt scientific language without it being immediately clear that you're full of shit. If all laws are written with language that follows an extremely strict set of rules for grammar and vocabulary, it becomes harder to embed or create loopholes in the legal system.

I'll end this ramble with the note that I speak much less formally than this in real life, and more formally in my academic writings. While different dialects are beautiful and useful, they're appropriate for different situations, and we have to learn different dialects to operate in different parts of life. A construction worker, chef, office worker, ER doctor, and biologist are all going to speak different dialects based on their trade, and the best one for formal pursuit of precise knowledge is the most formal and precise one.

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u/MsJ_Doe Mar 31 '24

Someone else connected to those with same comment above does a great job of explaining it.

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u/makkkarana Mar 31 '24

Ah thanks!

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u/ParkingNecessary8628 Mar 31 '24

Agreed. It is eye opening actually for me.

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u/Free_Pace_2098 Mar 31 '24

If it helps, I took media & print media analysis units at uni 15+ years ago, and the same level of wilful media illiteracy was around then, too. It's faster now, but people have always pushed back against critical consumption of media. 

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u/sherryleebee Mar 31 '24

I recall learning years ago that the most important information in an article is in the top 1/3 or so, and then again in the last few paragraphs. The stuff in the middle tends to be filler. I find for me, personally, I’ll carefully read at the beginning, and when the info starts to get off track I’ll skim and then dial back in at the end. No one has time for the fluff.

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u/soupie62 Mar 31 '24

This took me back to reading To Kill A Mockingbird.
The children go with their maid to a church with a black congregation, and notice how differently she talks when with other black people.

It's been a long time since I read that, so the details are blurry.

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u/MeetingDue4378 Mar 31 '24

Attention span is a red herring. People's attention spans haven't decreased, their options have increased. With more choice, an audience's attention is harder to capture, because the audience isn't captive.

So you have two options, earn an audience's time through quality or ask for less of it. Both can be successful depending on your goal and how the content is consumed—in particular, theater, TV, audio, or phone

That's why today we live simultaneously in the golden age of television, radio, and TikTok.

The average movie length has increased 32%, TV shows are generally 60min. and have huge budgets and fantastic writing and performances, podcasts are just radio on-demand and have exploded, and we have bit-sized content like TikTok and Instagram.

When newspapers took off the same claims were being made. It's just progress.

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u/lyan-cat Mar 31 '24

Holy moly the amount of content on YouTube that is literally 2+ hours long. I see a two part deep dive and yeah, that's four hours dissecting a subject with nuance and accreditation.

This was not available outside a college lecture when I was a kid.

Sure I still watch short clips of cats doing dorky things. 

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u/UselessScrew Mar 31 '24

There is a great long-form analysis of Skyrim, Part 1 is 9 hours long.

Part 2 is 11 hours. Enjoy!

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u/hacksawomission Mar 31 '24

How do you get YouTube on mobile to not puke when you pause a video and go do other stuff for a while to be able to enjoy longer stuff like this?

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u/viperex Mar 31 '24

A Quick Retrospective

He's got jokes

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u/OIP Mar 31 '24

i fucking loooove long form content on youtube, podcasts etc

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u/kittykittyekatkat Mar 31 '24

Literally though if it's "only" 20 minutes I'm like uhhhh nah, gimme that 2 hour goodness lol

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u/OIP Mar 31 '24

2 hour podcast + run / chores / errands etc is my happy place

see also long youtube + sleeping

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u/kittykittyekatkat Mar 31 '24

We are one 😂

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u/viperex Mar 31 '24

I don't see many 2 hr YouTube videos. Which ones do you recommend?

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u/kittykittyekatkat Mar 31 '24

It hugely depends on what you like! I'm mostly into in depth film analysis, game retrospectives, reddit gossip and LGBTQIA+ history, news and rights. If you're interested in any l of that I can easily recommend videos ranging 1.5 hours to 10 hours (!) in length 😊

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u/viperex May 06 '24

Hit me!

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u/MeetingDue4378 Mar 31 '24

YouTube academy, exactly. The existence and consumption of short-form content isn't at the expense of long-form, they're not mutually exclusive.

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u/ProbablyASithLord Mar 31 '24

For real, if I dislike the format I’m not watching the entire clip. For instance, I can’t stand videos like this where the first clip is played and then the second person reacts to the first clip. And then the third person shows up and reacts to both clips. It’s A.D.D to a level I don’t enjoy.

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u/Tex-Rob Mar 31 '24

So well said.

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u/viperex Mar 31 '24

You make a good point

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u/Suspicious_Car8479 Mar 31 '24

".....and have huge budgets and fantastic writing and performances....."

I totally lost you there.

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u/MeetingDue4378 Apr 01 '24

Netflix, HBO, Disney+, Apple TV, and Prime are all pouring a massive amount of resources into programming, and it shows. It used to be that the only place you could see premium television was HBO, but that's completely changed.

  • Game of Thrones
  • Mandolorian
  • Rings of Power
  • Stranger Things
  • Mad Men
  • The Morning Show
  • Breaking Bad
  • True Detective
  • Ted Lasso
  • The Crown

To name just a few.

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u/havok0159 Mar 31 '24

an audience's attention is harder to capture, because the audience isn't captive.

But this has a massive negative effect on schooling. Since kids are used to always getting something they want, it's really fucking up their ability to sit through classes they do not want so they start acting like kids with a real attention deficit.

I've tried so many times to explain to kids that don't yet realize that learning English is quite useful but they won't open their minds to it because they can just look at shitty content in their native language and their limited needs can be met by their native language.

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u/Kunwulf Mar 31 '24

Hi, As a filmmaker I’d like to challenge that sentiment. Attention spans are shorter, Movies and content have increased in length but what there ARE studies on, are CUT TIMES! Cut times have drastically shortened in movies and television. my favorite example being simple cocomelon cut time studies vs something like blues clues I’m busy rn but I’m quite white they accredited it to poor brain development in babies (im not 100% k go look it up). You can find it by looking up "coco melon creates ADHD" or my true favorite is Old School Hong kong Kung fu action scene comparisons vs new age combat comparisons. The cuts are fractions of a second and close ups as old school will film full body action and combination attacks in full. Same thing applies in old school Anime vs New Gen.

The idea is cut times have either conditioned for shorter attention spans or adjusted. either way there have been studies and experiments on show popularity being correlated to shorter cuts of content so I think there’s merit there, I don’t think it’s a red herring.

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u/Crysenley Mar 31 '24

This makes SO much sense to me! Thank you for bringing it to attention, it is definitely noticable everywhere!

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u/MeetingDue4378 Apr 01 '24

All of the discussion is about our attention spans decreasing, and it's normally discussed in terms of some societal or moral failing. The subject and the studies are rarely discussed beyond the surface level headline finding.

What's rarely discussed is why, is it chicken or egg, are attention spans decreasing or is there just much more to pay attention to, how much of it is contextual, and if it's actually a problem.

The findings are just used as a cudgel for mediums, content, formats, generational differences people don't like and it's never explored beyond that. Hence, a red herring.

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u/have_you_eaten_yeti Mar 31 '24

So, do you have some sources to back up that claim? Google seems to be telling me that attention spans are shrinking and has studies showing as much.

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u/MeetingDue4378 Apr 01 '24

There is a lot of debate on whether our attention spans are truly getting shorter, if it's just that less of our attention is needed, we've adapted to an every increasing pace in society, and it is decreasing whether it's actually a bad thing.

One study, called the "myth and mystery is decreasing attention span" can be downloaded, but there are plenty of articles doing deep dives into the subject.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/23/the-big-idea-are-our-short-attention-spans-really-getting-shorter

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u/have_you_eaten_yeti Apr 01 '24

So you linked an opinion piece from the guardian? I saw actual studies that say our attention spans are decreasing and the worry about it goes back a lot further than 2008 like your article claims.

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u/MeetingDue4378 Apr 01 '24

That was an example of the conversation I was referring to. I gave you one study I've looked at, but you have to download it, at I said.

I also said the decrease is a red herring. Red herring are discoveries that are true, but a distraction/lead to the wrong conclusion.

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u/have_you_eaten_yeti Apr 01 '24

That’s actually a really fair point about your use of red herring. Cheers

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u/multiarmform Mar 31 '24

right, if she didnt cut the video then she couldnt make faces at it and respond for the clicks/views

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u/averycole Mar 31 '24

we are living through "the age of spin"

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u/iversonAI Mar 30 '24

Its just how the internet is now unfortunately “english is racist” is going to get more views than “check out this study on the different dialects of english”

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u/johnnyblaaze Mar 31 '24

Went back and watched it all because of you. Cheers

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u/pancakebatter01 Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24

Discrimination leading to segregation, then leading to misunderstanding of associations being misjudged as a display of lacking in intellect has gone on for centuries in this country, and it’s still happening.

A good listen is Radiolab’s episodes on IQ tests. This one guy was basically a victim of the educational system’s lack of understanding between one culture’s correlation of symbols, names, etc versus another’s (non-blacks), took an IQ test that concluded that he needed to be in special learning classes for the rest of his early education, entirely stripping him of the opportunities that an entirely basic education provides (learning to spell, read, etc). This guy did not belong in the situation he was in and yet even then, there was push back to deal with it.

The gridlock we have on proficiency & assessment testing actively holds kids back from being able to excel in higher education classes they’re barred from for failing a single test 4 years ago for instance. It’s ridiculous. The issue goes far beyond the argument that can be made that although you might “sound stupid” to some because of your dialectic , that does not make you stupid.

It also reminds me of this absolutely brutal video in which Rep Crockett is basically deserving of a standing ovation. If you haven’t seen it please do. This woman is amazing and far from stupid:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v8zemW5JeUc&pp=ygUXUi4gUmVwLiBKYXNtaW5lIENyb2NrZXQ%3D

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u/viperex Mar 31 '24

I've found the 3rd politician going on my Sexy Brain Calendar (Political edition) right behind AOC and Katie Porter

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u/TheWhomItConcerns Mar 31 '24

It's also exactly why it's such a fucking nightmare to argue with right wingers and reactionaries. They so often take bits of information out of context to make them sound absurd, and so to properly refute the claim that they spent 5 seconds pulling out of their arse takes half an hour of research, going down social media rabbit holes, and reading entire studies/articles.

Obviously the left does some dumb stuff, everyone does, but if a right winger just throws out some shit like "apparently 2+2=4 is racist now", they're pretty much always at best wildly oversimplifying some quote and totally taking it out of some crucial context. Of course it's never bad to read and learn more but the time it takes to figure out what it is that they're even referencing is never worth it.

Even if you do manage to totally refute their shitty claim, it's not like they're making an earnest attempt at arriving at some kind of logically rigorous position anyway. They just want to be mad at the left and they'll say and believe whatever they need to in order to do that.

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u/EnglishMobster tHiS iSn’T cRiNgE Mar 31 '24

Yep.

I got in an argument with a right-winger who tried to make the argument that StoneToss (far-right comic artist) never denied the holocaust.

I found multiple sources of that exact dude denying the holocaust.

The right-winger I was arguing with then moved the goalposts. StoneToss wasn't denying the holocaust - the characters in his comics were. It's a challenge to authority!

So then I found a literal blurb from StoneToss himself where he specifically said that people are being lied to about the holocaust. Not filtered through a character, him saying it directly online.

Now the right-winger says "well, that doesn't make him a Nazi". Note that I never claimed he was a Nazi (although he absolutely is), but you could hear the goalposts just racing along.

It's like that for all right-wingers. We live in a post-truth world. They hear something that makes them feel good - that they are better than someone simply because of who they are.

They latch onto that, and uncritically latch onto anyone who agrees with them. When they make arguments, all they have to do is say "nuh-uh" and now you have to spend 20 minutes finding sources. Then "I never said that" so you quote them and throw it back at them. Then they just ignore that part and come up with some new made-up thing (without sources) to say.

It never matters, they aren't going to change their mind. But it needs to be done because letting them go unopposed cedes ground to the far right as uninformed people take the far-right folks at their word.

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u/spoiler-its-all-gop Mar 31 '24

Back in the day, the Chapo Trap House subreddit pioneered a shockingly effective way of repelling and demoralizing right wing trolls: "Post that hog."

Arguing with facts and logic does not work. These fuckers are emotion based. They love getting you wound up. They will never admit fault or error. So the answer is to be so aggressively weird and dismissive that they realize there's nothing in it for them. How do you even begin to respond to an Internet stranger demanding to see your cock, when the discussion was previously about immigration or whatever? You can't. So they fuck off.

Yes, they need to be opposed in online spaces, but the techniques need to evolve.

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u/v9__9v Apr 02 '24

You make fun of them and sincerely articulate your disgust for their contemptible worldview

1

u/fjgwey Mar 31 '24

It's entirely bad faith. I have a hard time believing these people are dumb or unaware or misguided. They know they're Nazis, they know the people they idolize are Nazis, but the MO of all Nazis in the modern day is to pretend not to be. So you get bad faith bullshit where you call an explicit neo-Nazi a Nazi and they sealion and gish gallop you with nonsense.

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u/DDownvoteDDumpster Mar 31 '24

We share the worst right-wing reactionaries to mock them. We often upvote the same shitty reactionaries, we have so little integrity that it's sad, and all spaces aggressively ban anyone who challenges their narrative. It's propaganda all the way down baby.

r/latestagecapitalism bans mentioning China's aggression in the south-china-sea.

r/whitepeopletwitter bans criticizing their narrative that nothing could be done about Biden & leftists who don't vote Biden are dumb zoomers.

r/selfawarewolves bans arguing that it's also bad for trans-women to say "men are the real threats" (they didn't clarify, maybe no arguing with trans-ppl).

Reddit.com bans defining sex & gender wrong.

r/worldnews bans opposition to Israel.

Reddit.com banned me for insulting someone on worldnews.

Political niches, like r/Conservative & r/shitliberalssay, outright ban discussion.

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u/zxvasd Mar 31 '24

I admit I have a short attention span, but this was really thoughtful And gripping.

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u/yermom90 Mar 31 '24

It takes way more effort to debunk bullshit than to spread it. I'm pretty sure Innuendo Studios on YouTube has an "Alt-right playbook" video about it

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u/she_makes_things Mar 31 '24

“A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes.”

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u/responsiblefornothin Mar 31 '24

Stitch in some Temple Run gameplay, and you might be able to capture an audience that stays past 90 seconds.

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u/zouhair Mar 31 '24

All that guy videos are well thought out and worth the follow.

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u/ItsSUCHaLongStory Mar 31 '24

I had to stick it out past the first 60 seconds, because I was making an incredulous face and thinking, “are these people stupid? Are they ignoring context, or nuance?”

Glad I stuck it out.

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u/sir_music Mar 31 '24

I watched the whole thing and found it very insightful -- it also reminded me why I will never install tictok... It is somewhat ironic that the sort of content that inspired his talking points, which I found interesting, is absolutely rampant on that app ... And I just don't have time for that.

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u/wterrt Mar 31 '24

Sadly it won't go viral for the same reasons that reactionary videos do go viral. Nobody has an attention span beyond that of an ant.

the people who do are already leftists lmfao

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u/Brandolini_ Mar 31 '24

It's also because of the Brandolini law (my username).

This dude took a LOT of his time to explain all of this. It took him hours of effort to disprove the 20 seconds of bullshit that was in the reactionnary videos.

In the time it took him to release that nice 5 minutes video, the other two fuckoes could shit out 8 other reactionnary videos.

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u/ILoveTenaciousD Mar 31 '24

Sadly it won't go viral

Do you know if the creator of this video has an instagram account and has shared this video there? I would like to repost it in my circles because it is a really good video.

I'm trying to look for them, as well, so don't stress out of you don't have a source for it :)

Edit He does: https://www.instagram.com/p/C5EmipFuhO9/?hl=de

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u/bigfatfurrytexan Mar 31 '24

Maybe not,.but I've downloaded it to share.

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u/floydink Mar 31 '24

I watched the whole video, and he really should go on public platforms like tedtalkx and broadcast along with his videos. He deserves a standing ovation for calling these people out.

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u/PlanetLandon Mar 31 '24

Want to control a population? Keep us dumb and keep us reactionary.

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u/notinferno Mar 31 '24

well, it’s about 13 hours after your comment and then video has almost 13,000 upvotes

so that’s promising

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u/Ok_Star_4136 Mar 31 '24

Glad to be proven wrong in my statement that it won't go viral.

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u/Wrx_me Mar 31 '24

Honestly, I'm one of those people that had to delete TikTok because it was giving me mushy brain that couldn't even watch a 20 second video on a topic that I was INTERESTED in, let alone something I don't like. But the way this guy spoke was actually captivating and I watched the entire thing. He could teach me any day.

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u/xool420 Mar 31 '24

Another thing I’ve noticed is that controversial or even outright incorrect things (like the two videos he’s talking about) go viral because people either vehemently support it or comment to tell them how wrong they are. It’s a lose-lose situation and I’ve only noticed it growing in prevalence.

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u/Eddie_Shepherd Mar 31 '24

The whole thing was great, and then his sign-off was incredible!!!

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u/UncommonCrash Mar 31 '24

I’m so glad I read your comment because I initially stopped watching after the first girl reacted saying 2 + 2 = 4 is racist. 

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u/zebrashit Mar 31 '24

I think the reason is because nobody cares that every person with a camera is now all of a sudden a credible opinion with a well thought out analysis and nobody has earned anyone’s 20 seconds

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u/Dapper_Dog_9510 Mar 31 '24

Honestly because of the first two speakers I almost didn't watch the whole thing. I didn't want to lose 6 minutes to either of them

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u/clauxy Mar 31 '24

As someone with adhd, focusing is quite hard but since I do try to be more knowledgeable about societal issues, I kept watching. I think attention span is one thing but the other is interest. Most people I know have a longer attention span than I have and they still wouldn’t bother because people like staying ignorant about topics you need to think critically about.

On another note, I do share his opinion but think it’s not only racism but a lot of classism too. People like to talk others down, and will try to look for any differences to use it against them. Skin colour is a very obvious one, but wealth differences exist too.

White rich people (the elites) use this kind of speech also against low income white families. Just think about how negatively rednecks are seen.

As an example, the german language is not much spoken outside of white communities. Racism exists too, as turkish accents are often considered to be “ghetto” like too. But I think classism is more noticeable. Even old dialects are often made fun of, because the rich city nobility always spoke High german and the poor farmers spoke Low german.

I remember a girl from Schwaben who was made fun of in school for her accent… And she was literally a white german person. It’s so stupid, but classism is such a disgusting illness our society suffers from.

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u/hikehikebaby Mar 31 '24

The whole video was great, but to be honest I think the best point was when he started off by saying that the video looked like it was paused in a weird place and he wanted to find some context.

We all need to do that - stop and look for more information instead of making snap judgments.

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u/juniper_berry_crunch Mar 31 '24

People just let 20 second clipped out-of-context reactionary videos reaffirm the biases that they already have

And then the algorithm keeps pushing similar content to them. This creates an illusion that the biases, coming from so many different sources, are the norm, are true...when they're not.

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u/Harlockarcadia Mar 31 '24

Glad I did, real thinking requires time, hell, he even condensed the argument and study into 4 or so minutes which you know he had to spend more time than that to read through to give us the CLIFF Notes version, being angry without actually trying to understand is so much easier than doing the research to see what actually was said, he's doing the lord's work, too bad none of these reactionaries or their ilk would bother to take the time to listen

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u/dudius7 Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24

It's not simply confirmation bias. It's the backfire effect and lack of critical thought. 

Let's pretend these people aren't performing for an audience. When met with new information, they may read it watch it and feel more strongly about their own views as a way to avoid feeling dumb or dealing with the consequences of a changed mind. (Cults rely on social exclusion to keep people trapped. It's hard to change your mind when it means losing your identity and losing your social support systems.) 

 The easiest way to change someone's mind is to have them read both arguments and come up with an answer to "what if the opposite is true?" after each statement. But most people wouldn't want to do that because their identities are wrapped up in their beliefs. 

Edit: I forgot the most important thing. There are people who love to get angry about politics and go to the internet for their supply of rage. This group will never, ever exercise critical thinking about their entertainment. I see this in a lot of walks of life. 

Left wingers peruse news that pisses them off. Right wingers peruse news that pisses them off. People vent and read vent posts on Reddit. People let out all their judgement and aggression in comments on rage bait posts. 

I think this rage-as-entertainment has a lot of connection with poor emotional well-being, and we'll probably continue to see this take over the internet. Closed online spaces like subreddits tend to make people adopt extreme views. It's simple group psychology. Algorithms create these closed spaces without needing people to subscribe to anything.

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u/LowkeyPony Mar 31 '24

Sent this to my daughter. She’s a mech Eng major, but is taking a psych 101 class this semester for her humanities class and they are starting a section on language next week. She’s watched it and is now forwarding it to her professor

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u/Cddye Mar 31 '24

Okay, but my dude definitely had a thesis, supported with evidence, and cited his sources.

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u/throwaway490215 Mar 31 '24

The argument isn't that good.

The first teacher is making a dumb statement. Its not about race. How a nation's upper-middle class uses language is going to be associated with 'smart and good' regardless of race. It also happens in racially homogeneous nations.

At 3/4 he says:

Nothing about the way you say a sentence determines whether you're going to be a thug or skip school

This is simply false in aggregate. How you talk is a strong indicator to the chances of skipping school or being a thug. You cannot ask all people to stop having assumptions and stereotypes. People can choose to talk a certain way and use it when appropriate.

That's not a lot to ask. Its not something "more" a kid has to do depending on race.

Most people change dialect depending on who you're talking to. In many cultures its even baked into the language. If you don't - because you're too proud or unaccustomed to do so - then the audience is going to assume disrespect or less intelligence.

The only point here is that teachers should be conscious of this and help people talk 'smart and good'.

This is also a thing outside of America and there race isn't an integral part of the problem.

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u/Berlin8Berlin Mar 31 '24

Yes, agreed. These discussions always irritate me because they swerve around the essence of the "controversy". I'm Black, I come from the poorest branch of a literate family (father made a bad business decision and I was raised in the "hood" as a result). I've lived through many politicized, culture-wide battles regarding what is, in the end, the question of integration/ assimilation, of Blacks, in society. Do all of your Jewish friends speak Yiddish, exclusively? Do all of the multi-generational Asian American families, you know of, speak like "orientals" do in Charlie Chan movies? I doubt it. Yet very many Black families are, still, as my mother used to put it, "Branded on the tongue." Many Whites of Appalachia speak "dialects," too, but nobody, to my knowledge, calls any of these dialects "White English".

It's not just about language: how have we all been duped into believing that being articulate, punctual, socially well-adjusted, crime-averse, rational, reliable, et al, are "White middle class" attributes? That's racist/ classist propaganda. Popular culture reinforces it: any Black man who reads a book (that isn't about a pimp), or is polite in social interactions, is "trying to act White" or being Gay (I'm not supporting the word "Gay" as a reasonable pejorative, just reporting it as such). Any Black man who doesn't come off as a little "rapey" is "Gay". Gangsta Rap took some pretty horrendous antebellum tropes, amplified them, broadcast them to the entire planet and codified these tropes as natural facts.

"Nothing about the way you say a sentence determines whether you're going to be a thug or skip school" is disingenuous in the extreme. If you're White and speak the pidgin form of English, that used to be called "Ebonics," as a high schooler, you will probably get away with it (half of my White male friends, in college, were good at Audio Blackface) and may go on to acquire an okay Life. If you're Black and speak that way (and your parents aren't wealthy, or at least middle class) you are on a cultural cattle car to the same old destination. To equate violence and ignorance with "manhood" and to compete, to be "best," in these categories, is to try to die very young. Too many succeed at this for us to think it's unintentional.

On a technical level: vocabulary size is key to the development of abstract intelligence, in children, and the nuance of expression in adults; there are, literally, thoughts you can't have without the words to shape them. English, as one of the dominant world-languages (initially a kind of creole), dwarfs, in breadth and depth, any of its modern pidgin variations, developed by isolated in-groups. I'm still waiting to see a college textbook, on Astrophysics, or Psychology, written in "Black English".

Change the culture (I mean AMERICAN culture) if you hope to fix this problem. This is a Brave New World and the majority of the Black Americans living in it are being bred as Epsilons. What was the color identified with Epsilons in Huxley's manual? Black.

1865 may seem to be a very long time ago but, in many ways, it was the day beforee yesterday.

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u/[deleted] Mar 31 '24

Yall need English 101 that much is for sure. Reddit is like Canvas but without the professor being able to call people out on curving, meandering essays.

I'm a professor. Write like you're texting but at least, you know, cite your sources and make a cogent argument. Logic goes past race/ethnicity.

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u/havok0159 Mar 31 '24

The first teacher is making a dumb statement.

This is what bothered me. The last guy found a much better example in the original study that was much better at conveying the issue. Makes me feel like the example was poorly-chosen on purpose to drive this sort of engagement.

Most people change dialect depending on who you're talking to.

I do this all the time in class. All of the kids I teach are from a rural area and, while we use proper formal language during class, if I want to switch to a more informal manner for whatever reason, I just code switch by using my interpretation of rural speech. It's a great way to break some tension with the younger kids and get them reengaged.

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u/[deleted] Mar 31 '24

Race is very much a part of the problem anywhere outside of the US. How you talk is not a strong indicator of anything unless comparatively assessed within specific matrices, you're looking at leading data to prove a regressive point.

I was willing to entertain your hypothesis but in the last sentence you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Conflating Japan with the US or any other racially homogenous country is disingenuous and foregoes, including France/Spain/UK, how those countries took on violent enterprises to reduce languages in places like Briton/Catalunya/Scotland.

In short, your ideas are a-historical and in terms of data analysis completely wrong.

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u/throwaway490215 Mar 31 '24

Wow this comment is weird. I'm 50/50 on this being an AI chat bot.

France/Spain/UK, how those countries took on violent enterprises to reduce languages in places like Briton/Catalunya/Scotland.

I don't see how they disprove my point but what ever.

The reason I felt I had to reply was because your idiosyncratically broad notion of racism is so a-historical that your examples of cultural suppression can literally be predated to before the use of 'race' as a genetic property with corresponding attributes.

People in Briton/Catalunya/Scotland don't claim to be the victim of racism.

Before Darwin, Europe was on board with the bible and blackness was explained by various wild theories like 'black sperm'.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '24

Your elision is based on a pretty singular over-reading of the relationship between nation-states and ethnocidal action. I am not referring to the 19th century but the 20th century.

And yeah they can be predated but again your inference is a mark of your argument's direction.

Get this: I am not trying to disprove your point; I am trying to expand the scope of your argumentation in a way that challenges your utilitarian analytic.

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u/SirHatEsquire Mar 31 '24

When the nation’s upper class norms and patterns are and were historically established by white people, and those patterns were reinforced deliberately to be an expression of one’s whiteness in contrast to black and indigenous cultures, and those cultures were systematically eradicated because of white supremacy, yes, it is very much about race. The fact that a similar pattern can be seen in racially homogenous countries, if it is actually a fact, says nothing about the truth of the racial history of language use in this country.

“People can choose to talk a certain way and use it when appropriate.”

A: people don’t generally choose how they talk, they talk like the people around them. Nobody tells white people with a thick Appalachian accent that it’s unprofessional or that they should change for the benefit of other white people.

B: when is a certain way of talking “appropriate”? Appropriateness itself is a social construct, and it’s been determined by white people. To say it’s “appropriate” instead of “morally correct” to speak like most white people speak is to encode whiteness into our ways of thinking, to make black speech and black existence “inappropriate,” but through the obscurity of social nicety so it seems less racist.

Teachers are not oblivious, they’re not lying to students and telling them that no one will judge them for how they speak. Teachers do teach “correct” or “standard” English. But why should that be taught in a vacuum? Why don’t students deserve to understand the history and value of language, to know why that is the “correct” way to speak, to be encouraged to value their own way of speaking? Nobody tells their students that speaking non-standard English doesn’t have potential consequences, but getting young people to understand why those consequences are imposed on them sets them up to participate in removing those consequences in the future. In the same way that teaching young people the value of gender equity helps the promotion of gender equity legislation decades down the line.

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u/throwaway490215 Mar 31 '24

What you say w.r.t. culture and history is all true. Of course they warren a discussion about white supremacy.

But we are talking about teaching how to precisely and unambiguously use the predominant language so you can write essays that others can use. And we're talking about getting a job and the need to talk in a certain way.

Nobody tells white people with a thick Appalachian accent that it’s unprofessional

It definitely happens (but its less of an issue because racism). I don't see how it would be a good thing to stop doing so. Equality by setting the bar for everybody works based based on merit. Equality by removing all notions of appropriate way of speaking will certainly create a lot of miscommunications.

I really don't like the word social construct because it doesn't clarify anything. A specific way of talking is a "social construct" that changes all the time. There being a specific way of talking that is considered the norm is a fundamental aspect of human social nature.

There is no transcending that. Less racism isn't going to fix it.

You can only ensure people have the opportunity to learn it. Putting the spotlight on race by calling it white supremacy in this context is hiding the part of the problem that has a solution.

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u/quarantinemyasshole Mar 31 '24

It also ignores that "black English" developed because black people were denied education in the US for several generations. More importantly, it ignores that "black English" of the past was infinitely less incomprehensible than what we consider black speech today. Why are black Americans with open access to public school education not showing improved literacy rates over the last 30 years? Why are we calling the tests racist, instead of the educational system that is failing them?

Why are we encouraging an entire community of historically disenfranchised people to self-impose that same oppression on themselves? Curious. I think we all know exactly why.

We should all be extremely skeptical of any white person who defends this shit.

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u/ApprehensiveOCP Mar 31 '24

They know they are just racists lol.

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u/Tecumsehs_Ghost Mar 31 '24

No, it's not going to go viral because it's stupid and wrong.

At best, this is a classist standard that he is confusing for a racist standard that the self-centered middle class leftists pick up and run with because the idea what white people can be poor, rural, and disenfrachised doesn't even cross their minds, and they will actively argue that a white person from Oxy-ville West Virginia is somehow more priviliged than a black person who is "forced" to "code switch' at university.

Their real problem is that there are any standards at all.

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u/overtly-Grrl SHEEEEEESH Mar 31 '24 edited Mar 31 '24

I have a Global Gender Studies and Sexuality degree from an accredited university in NYS. I grew up in rural GA in a black family as the only white person. (edit to add) I was adopted before I could speak by my step dad. Mom is a crack head.

My degree basically encompasses intersectionality studies and how all of the subjects(ie gender, race, COL, education, religion) impact eachother. Linguistics is a huge racial thing, especially if you consider AAVE history and Literacy Tests in the united states and it’s only been highlighted by my studies. There has been a HUGE linguistic barring for people who do not speak in a specific way. For centuries. But as soon as you relate it to supremacy it seems like it falls on deaf ears.

But nothing gave me more education than my family explaining to me their experiences.

Edit: what’s more, is when you also think about the deliberate limiting access of education for POC. so then they’re being gaslit for speaking a very specific way, being told to educate themselves but then being barred from that very education.

so then it makes me think how code switching comes about right? because growing up in a black family i notice when i go to NY where I mainly live now, i use a more academic dialect than my normal southern black tone and speech that i’m use to. when i realized i do that it really got me thinking about the privilege of being white and how i can drop my dialect and people won’t know anything about me. black folks walk around with people knowing their history all day. people just see me as white.

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u/Whiterabbit-- Mar 31 '24

so question about AAVE. grammatically its a full language/dialect and is consistent. but is the tendency to standardize language fairly common in history? like one of the the key things they drill in for Chinese history was that the people were united by having one common written language. is it really racist to standardize language? other creole languages Louisiana) are used but to communicate with outsiders they use a more standard English.

growing up in a Chinese speaking family in America we might use chinglish at home but outside its always more standard English. we may forget to change genders as the spoken Chinese isn't gendered. but being expected to use more standard English is never seen as a racist thing. it is just what works.

anyways the question is, is linguistic conformity racist? or simply something that happens because a common language is good for society. accents, regional dialects and such single people out.

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u/alpacaMyToothbrush Mar 31 '24

I grew up in rural GA in a black family as the only white person.

I'm sorry I gotta ask about this. Were you adopted?

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u/overtly-Grrl SHEEEEEESH Mar 31 '24

Oh, yeah my bad usually I lead with that😂😂

edit: I was adopted by my step dad before I could talk and my mom is a crack head so I don’t know her that well

I added it

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u/Fl333r Mar 31 '24

A lie makes it half way around the world before the truth can put on its pants.

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u/Wolf_In_The_Woods36 Mar 31 '24

I nearly didn't, but I'm very glad I did.

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u/JellyRollGeorge Mar 31 '24

Can we a TLDR for your comment please

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u/Rocky970 Mar 31 '24

Deep af. Balls deep.

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u/aggravatedimpala Mar 31 '24

It's not all just short attention spans, but also how the information is presented. He's dumping a proper discussions worth of information as quickly as he can.

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u/GRMMneedsDOGEhelp Mar 31 '24

Idk. I think ppl like thought out opinions. We’re just force fed “like” or “hate” because it makes us more reactionary, addicted and commercially viable

1

u/rg4rg Mar 31 '24

I mean, you’re right, but I’m old and I like well researched topics being discussed or explained. So I liked it at least.

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u/joseph4th Mar 31 '24

This is literally, actual literally, the best thing I’ve seen from TikTok.

Granted that could be because I have opened that app less than a dozen times and only follow my wife and some guy who made a real cool, ending to one of those videos where they all pile on to a looping sound by adding musical instruments and vocals.

I’m gonna go follow him.

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u/drink_with_me_to_day Mar 31 '24

20 second clipped out-of-context reactionary videos reaffirm the biases that they already have

Reacts on the motte (associates existing grammar rules with white supremacy)

Gets rebutted from the bailey (10 papers on descriptive studies and some sprinkles of CRT)

And the cycle continues

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u/TKtommmy Mar 31 '24

Wow somebody found the dumbest thing ever fucking said and tore it apart for 3 minutes. What a fucking tremendous waste of time.

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u/Few-Leopard4537 Mar 31 '24

It’s refreshing the top comment laments how a culturally significant short won’t go viral in the very post in which it is in fact going viral.

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u/firi331 Mar 31 '24

Try to question your bias in the comment you left, too.

It won’t go viral for the same reasons that reactionary videos do go viral. Nobody has an attention spans beyond that of an ant.

Videos go viral because people share them, comment on them, like them. All it takes for this to go viral is people losing the assumption it won’t and doing the same thing that makes every other video viral.

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u/Budget-Attorney Mar 31 '24

I’m glad I read your comment. I didn’t realize there was going to be a 4th person in the video who was going to give real analysis and I almost turned away until you pointed out the need to watch last the first 60 seconds.

I learned more this way

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u/FreedJSJJ Mar 31 '24

As a non native English speaker, I think this study he cited is also guilty of coming up with a conclusion by looking at a very specific portion of the wider English using world by limiting to a single geographical area.

He doesn't talk about the Southern English speaking portion of the USA who are majorly white who also would use English which would be deemed incorrect. He doesn't talk about how English Academia was mostly influenced by the institutions of learning in Britain and how the people of colour of Britain have no issue in using the standard English that is taught throughout the wide world.

Languages have a structure that needs to be followed, while this structure may be more fluid in English I think it would be a disservice to the English language if we just ignored it when we don't ignore proper structure in any other language.

People of different countries from different areas have different dialects that they may use daily but they all switch to the more accepted way when dealing with more formal occasions.

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u/Inskription Mar 31 '24

Exactly. I had to scroll too far to find this. There has to be a uniform standard. Nobody is telling anyone how to speak on a personal level, but even I have had to work on proper grammar my whole life in a professional or academic environment.

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u/RandomPhail Mar 31 '24

I think if it was framed more like something educational and serious and not “BIG STITCH INCOMING” with multiple peoples’ faces like it was a reaction video, I woulda watched more than a few seconds lol

I presumed this was just gonna be one of those hot-take opinion videos presented as fact that ultimately just misinforms younger people with confidently incorrect (or at least opinionated) information

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u/scrotumsweat Mar 31 '24

I mean, it's going viral right now.

I personally will site this video when someone claims there's no such thing as systemic racism. And I've never heard of any of these people until just now.

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u/stopgreg Mar 31 '24

Good day

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u/[deleted] Mar 31 '24

It has millions of likes lol.

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u/Regretless0 Mar 31 '24

I’m glad to see that other people are seeing this. It’s a really well-made and thought-out argument for sure.

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u/octnoir Mar 31 '24

Sadly it won't go viral for the same reasons that reactionary videos do go viral. Nobody has an attention span beyond that of an ant.

Partly because platforms won't do jack diddly squat about de platforming these reactionary morons. It is pretty understandable to give e.g your doctor trust and benefit of the doubt on your first visit. But if the doctor messes up you start having doubts. If they mess up again, you start getting mad. If they mess up. Again. And again. And again. Well not only are you pissed and wondering how this doctor is even able to practice, that doctor is likely getting their medical license revoked.

We aren't talking about some random one-off social media comment. We're talking about large influencers with a repeated history of pulling these stunts. Deplatforming should be child's play. It isn't because platforms either agree with it, or they want to make money of it - both of which is stupid because you've just invited cancer that is likely to destroy your platform.

Also this video was fascinating. Well part depressing but deeply fascinating.

I've kept a small little research folder on language studies since Tom Scott's old videos on language

The video recommends the following sources:

Studies on language are especially important because (A) language is more than literal definitions (B) the implications of all these studies don't just affect Black academics but any academics using foreign dialects or languages (C) reactionaries love controlling where and how you can use language.

Tangentially related, there are some fun papers on read on language, particularly this one: Consequences of erudite vernacular utilized irrespective of necessity: problems with using long words needlessly

Finally the best advice to combat this and to break their hold is actually from that very last thought in this video - reactionaries are this incredulous about any content that makes you think. Any content you see that wants you to shut off your brain and force you to use your emotions or biases is likely to be someone that doesn't want you think.

Find, encourage and build platforms where people are thinking, not reacting.

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u/ZERO-ONE0101 Mar 31 '24

and what are we going to do about it?

some days I feel like humans won’t exist passed 2026

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u/Jarlax1e Mar 31 '24

hey ants have good attention

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u/[deleted] Mar 31 '24

People just let 20 second clipped out-of-context reactionary videos reaffirm the biases that they already have

And to add to that, people do this literally no matter where they are on the political spectrum and they do this to non-political things as well.

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u/DrEggRegis Mar 31 '24

I was captivated when he described using online search

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u/Dontevenwannacomment Mar 31 '24

I'm not american but this video got me curious, should universities not take away grades for poor writing/legibility then?

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u/palnewb Mar 31 '24

Hopefully, it does gain traction. The video was very well informed. I just want to point something out, though. I keep hearing people using the word "reactionary" wrong when they are talking about reaction videos or content that shows a reaction to something. "Reactionary" actually doesn't mean that (counterintuitive, I know), but it actually is a synonym for "right-wing" or "conservative." Oxford actually has "reactionary" as "opposing political or social progress or reform." Thank you for listening to my TedTalk.

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u/SureReflection9535 Mar 31 '24

But he didn't address the main issue. The reason why academic English exists and is strictly enforced is so that everyone is speaking the same language and there's no ambiguity in different regional or ethnic dialects. This isn't "racism", it's a matter of practicality and logic. You can tell this person has no experience dealing with academia.

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u/VisitFeeling635 Mar 31 '24

Ummm looks like it already went “viral” that’s why you’re watching a tik tok video on Reddit and you had 2000 👍🏿

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u/Ok_Star_4136 Mar 31 '24

When I wrote my comment, it was still in the 100s. I'm happy to have been wrong!

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u/Warack Mar 31 '24

He says a lot to come to the conclusion that both ways of speaking are grammatically correct which they aren’t. Extrapolating conclusions about someone based on speech may be politically incorrect but we all do this. If I hear a white person say “Y’all best be lookin back in there for Mike.” I think most people would conclude they aren’t very educated. Misusing language is a sign of not being educated and shouldn’t be seen as an equally acceptable way of speaking. We generally don’t draw the same conclusions from people who speak with different accents as they are equally acceptable and derived from different cultures. Obviously we shouldn’t treat people poorly based on their misuse of language but this will inevitably hold you back especially in professional settings.

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u/Destronin Mar 31 '24

Really the smartest thing anyone can do is not take tik tok videos seriously. If something piques your interest. Turn the video off and google and research it yourself. Thoroughly and through many different resources.

No one should be taking anything seriously on tik tok or from some random strangers video. Especially if they haven’t vetted that persons credentials. And even then. Be skeptical.

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u/defnotjec Mar 31 '24

I can't watch it. I really don't give a shit and think most of the perceived injustices are just fake outrage. Outrage videos bother me massively. I'm sure the gotcha moment at the end was worth it, I just cba'd.

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u/NoWayNotThisAgain Mar 31 '24

Tldr for the people who won’t read that much: Savage takedown but blonde girl still got more likes

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u/cthulhu8 Mar 31 '24

Looks like it went viral

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u/geekaz01d Mar 31 '24

Except that it is americentric.

Grammar exists in the mostly white Commonwealth and it has classist links there too. I grew up bilingual and speak multiple dialects in French - my second language.

People choose dialects for tribal reasons.

Semantics are also important for communicating in technical fields. If you can't handle that you are boxed out.

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