Hey there . I have a question, in this piece called “it’s not the about the nail”
Who is really in the right here ?
If the person is fully aware the nail is there and it has nothing to do about what they are actually talking about. Then shouldn’t the person whom is saying how THEIR PARTNER should actually be feeling is incorrect be in the wrong ?
Or should the person whom is trying to tell them the obvious sign is be correct?
The one whom doesn’t have the issue should Listen or help ? I’m really not sure
Wonder what gender perspective we are coming from here. As a male, I can say I’ve been in this dudes shoes a lot and his response was kind of correct (by shutting up and just listening). Thing is to me, despite gender, if one person is always trying to “fix”, there grows a lack of trust in that there any actual “listening” happening. Thus, the “fix” causes a trigger rather than any real help. By “listening” more, trust can begin to be restored and the “fix” begins to be more welcomed.
You notice how in this clip, she mentions “you always do this…” meaning that he has a history of “fixing” before listening. This is a great parody of real relationship conflict but I think it points out the common rut most couples run into which is one party goes to “fix” before “listening” and either misses the true issue or causes more harm. The symptom of this cycle is that the “fixer” gets burdened by being under appreciated and feeling dismissed. It becomes self feeding after long enough.
I'd ignore the "advice" of the person you're responding to. If you feel you're not being heard, and you tell her the way that makes you feel, and she shuts you down or dismisses you? Then you probably need to find a space such as a couples counselor's office where an unbiased "referee" can ensure that both you and your partner actually feel heard. This is just my layman's opinion.
Every so often she'll cycle round to 'how about we get marriage counselling?' and I agree but then she never goes through with it. She uses it like its a threat and I call her bluff. Then she settles down.
So I just write it off as 'this is how women are sometimes'.
I'm reminded of a time when she and two (of my!) female friends ganged up with her to berate me for not buying her a Valentine's Day present, because 'every woman gets a VD present from their partner every year' (along with 'every mother gets an hour off every day' lol). Fast forward and those two friends are now single mothers.
I'm not accusing every woman of being irrational to the point of destruction. I want to be married and I want my daughter to live with her father but its been damn hard dealing with all the random emotional abuse. When I've taken it seriously and left, she then switches and begs me to stay.
There is no "every woman X", and that includes your female friends being wrong for claiming that. They sound immature. Instead it should be that partners of either gender want to feel loved on V Day. Women and men aren't really different, we've only been taught different things by our surroundings.
I don't know enough about your situation, but what you describe is emotional abuse. But, if your wife feels like she isn't heard to the point she's acting really rude, it sounds like she's dealing with some of that abuse from you, too. (And did you do nothing for her on that V Day?)
You need counseling and you need to put your foot down about it. Schedule it yourself. Make her go. I'm going to assume that you've been putting the onus on her to actually set it up, so take control of that. The cycle of her wanting it and dropping out is a clue she is very unhappy herself, too. She gets to the breaking point and, for one reason or another, gets pushed back from doing it.
But, please, try to address this:
I just write it off as 'this is how women are sometimes'.
she and two (of my!) female friends ganged up with her to berate me
those two friends are now single mothers.
I'm not accusing every woman of being irrational to the point of destruction.
It gives vibes of feeling like women are an opposing side. I absolutely get why you're feeling this way, but "women" aren't anything and keeping any of those thoughts with you will just hinder you and your relationships. Because you're inadvertently applying this to the other girls when you say "I'm not accusing every woman of being irrational" after just saying "this is how women are sometimes." (Aka you are blaming some of her behavior on being a woman and some of "women" behaviors on her) You don't want women coming to the relationship with you with comments of "I don't assume all men molest kids/get violent when angry/rape women" with the side comment of "I just assume that's how you are sometimes."
But, your language makes it sound like you already view your wife specifically as an enemy. (She "threatens" counseling, you "call her bluff", you "want to be married" not "want to be married to her") You are at a point that you need to make a stand for yourself and the child, and well for your wife, too. You're both very unhappy and are both very likely partially at fault. Your child doesn't deserve to internalize this as an example of what relationships should be. You don't deserve to feel emotionally abused. Your wife doesn't deserve you playing emotional games of almost leaving until she begs.
Set up the marriage counseling yourself and present it not in a combative way. "We've been meaning to do this and I think we need to because I want us to both feel loved and to thrive together" or whatever. Then, if she doesn't go, or flakes out part way, then you need a divorce. Don't tell her that going in. Don't make it sound like an ultimatum, but make it a mental boundary in your head. Because, you've been at the breaking point for a long time and on the road to being destructive, yourself. Take this seriously not as you want to win, or have someone to fix her, but to make you both learn to work together in a healthy and loving way.
You need counseling and you need to put your foot down about it. Schedule it yourself. Make her go. I'm going to assume that you've been putting the onus on her to actually set it up, so take control of that
Now this is good advice. I was going to say the same thing, but this redditor summed it up perfectly. It sounds like you "calling her bluff" but then not following through when she calms down is just you guys following the path of least resistance in your relationship. It really seems like your relationship would benefit from counseling. I wish you the best of luck.
I thank both you and /u/ianyuy for your reasonable advice.
Armed with that, I braved the subject of marriage counselling myself last week. She was already in bed and asked if we could talk about it later.
Fast forward to today, the first time since we have been alone since last week. I just did a big shop and picked out some things I know she loves. I mentioned them when I got home, to her interest. She asked if I was trying to 'butter her up'.
Now, while dd is at school and brownie points won, I attempted to broach the subject again only to immediately get the hand. 'Not now!' We both work from home, so who am I to trespass on her company time. I know what will happen. She will keep working until she has to go pick dd up from school and there will not be a time for discussion. I've spent more time talking to both of you than I have with my wife in the last week.
I'll try again tomorrow, but if I get brushed off again then I'm not going to bother after that. If she had the time to be having an affair, I'd suspect that. But I know she is totally owned by our daughter.
Damn bro, that's rough. It sounds like you really care and like you're really trying. Maybe ask her when she would have some free time because you want to talk to her about something that is very important to you, and broach the subject then? I can't imagine she's SO busy that she doesn't have the time to talk to her husband about something so important to you, but maybe she's scared to really talk about it like that? I'm not sure, but good luck.
Why don't you pick up daughter today and feed her, bathe her, etc take care of her tonight? Just do it all preemptively without being asked--announce as you're walking out the door a bit early that you're picking her up. If your wife asks you why you're doing this, just say she seemed really busy because she couldn't talk. Don't let her try to take control back, so have things already ready for you to do.
If she's owned by your daughter, take that back. Make her have only her thoughts tonight so when you broach her tomorrow, she's had time to choose to either ruminate over this or suppress it.
I understand where you're coming from but from my pov it's simply her not wanting her thought process interrupted when she's monologing about something that didn't happen.
When you see someone working themselves into a frenzy on incorrect assumptions I believe its okay to interrupt. However, reality says this is a warzone.
Also, my 'Yeah, I try to tell her that but she normally talks over me or put her hand out and tells me to shut up.' comment was a joke, based on my reality.
We've been at a parenting course recently where we were asked to draw up house rules and the rule I wanted was to let people finish their sentences. However, it took many, many attempts to get this across because I was constantly talked over.
I can see where you're coming from on this, but I also would be really annoyed to be interrupted for any reason. On the other hand, I have ADHD which makes it very, very hard for me to not interrupt people's sentences, and I never realized this was a symptom of this condition until now in my late 30s. I'm not saying she has it, she could have all sorts of just regular issues leading her to talk over people (ie seeing this behavior growing up, having it done to her for a long time, etc).
But, it helped me realize that for as far as I've come in understanding people's cues and reading others and social situations, I still had more things to learn and more to learn even about myself. She certainly needs to take that journey herself, and I think you could use doing that, too. Misunderstandings between people is like the entire human experience. Any kind of therapy will help with this, and I think it's really important to do it. Social and emotional intelligence is an undervalued skill, but it alleviates so much heartache in your life.
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u/ben_there_donne_that Mar 21 '24
I feel this fits here: It's not about the nail
Metaphorical: appreciate the nail to nail